Problems with DS (long)
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Problems with DS (long)
I guess this is mostly a vent, but I also would like to know that I'm not the only one who has ever gone through this, kwim?
Ds is home today because he was suspended yesterday for behavior issues. Did I mention he is only 7yo and in 1st grade??? We have always felt that ds was a little different and we have suspected adhd since he was four. Before four we chalked it up to being a very active boy, but at four we decided that what we were experiencing was a bit out of the norm compared to what we saw with other children and we started doing a little research. We eliminated all food dye from his diet and were encouraged that it had some success, but that only lasted for a while and no longer seems to work even though we still keep him on a dye free diet. We finally broke down and decided to have him evaluated for adhd and he has an appointment tomorrow. I'm a little nervous about it. We really don't want to put our child on medication, but we don't know what else to do at this point. He isn't "bad" or "mean" (he's actually a very sweet child and very loving) he's just extremely active and it is majorly interfering with his and our lives. We had to take him out of Tae Kwon Do because he was so disruptive that they couldn't teach the class. He is sent to the principals office at least once or twice a day (every single day!!!) because of failure to have any self control and the school has had me come to get him in the middle of the day because of his behavior before. He talks, sings, or makes noises constantly. He is out of his seat messing with things constantly. He will not follow instructions given by anyone whether it is another child telling him to stop touching his/her things, or the teacher telling him to stop talking, or the principal telling him to sit down, or dh and I telling him to do whatever. Dh and I are beyond frustrated and don't know what to do. He has always been like this, but things have really become extreme. The extreme behavior began back in February and simply is still escalating. One thing I find very unsettling is that he looks different when he's really out of control. He has a weird look to his eyes and he constantly grins. He even grins and laughs if I swat him, which I rarely do because spanking doesn't seem to have an effect on him and never has, but a swat will sometimes sort of, I don't know, help him reboot in some way??? If I didn't know my ds or if he were 10 years older I would swear that he is high on some kind of drug when he looks like that. His teacher has actually been wonderful. She has a ds who is adhd and because of her experience she has the patience of a saint, but the behavior is so extreme that she can't teach the class. Yesterday he was placed in an in-school suspension situation and was so loud and out of control that the neighboring classroom called the office to complain. My ds managed to disrupt the class next door though cinderblock walls! That's when they suspended him for a day.
So can anyone relate to this at all? I can't be the only one who has had these experiences with a child. I love my ds with all my heart, but I am tired, I am frustrated, and I am overwhelmed. He acts this way whether he is at home, at school, or wherever. We no longer go anywhere or do anything as a family with ds. Either I or my dh will stay home with him rather than us go places as a family. The last time I took him with me to the store I had two employees of the store give me unsolicted advice. One suggested that I take my child to the bathroom and spank him, the other suggested that I not bring him back to the store.
I know this post is really long and if you have made it this far, thank you for reading and letting me vent.
In general with any psych condition, the big red flag is "does it keep you from living life as normal". When your disease keeps you functioning you have to be medicated. If you think about how frustrated you are with your son, how frustrated do you think he is? He is just old enough to know he impacts his world and being the "wild child" (my son's nickname) hinders friendships, they miss out on fun things at school etc. Kids see this and know. Putting a child on meds is a tough choice, but studies show that children who really need them, eventually self medicate later in life. This could be as simple as lots of caffiene or speed or other drugs. This is not your fault, some kids are just wired differently nad it is your job as a mom to figure out if there is something you can do to help.
I have this opinion because I have been there. I have two kids with the label of add or adhd. My daughter is very mild, not hyper, but when she struggles she really ends up in a downward spirial. We medicated her for about a year, it was great help. She ultimately came off meds and now mostly does well. She does take caffiene when needed, as a 7th grader she can say, boy I feel off and can't settle my thoughts.
My 3rd grader is a handful, it saddens us at times, he doesn't bond with other kids, he is very touchy etc. He is unmedicated at this time because we haven't found one to work. The first one we tried worked really well, but he developed an allergy to it very shortly. We saw great improvements, his teachers all liked him better, he worked so much harder. We didn't lose our son, or alter his personality into a zombie (which were our fears), but it just took the edge off, it was so nice. We are still playing the med game right now.
It is tough having the child that everyone knows (oh you are so and so's mom). It is emotionally draining. Go to your appoinment open minded. Meds may be just what he needs to give him a foundation. It doesn't mean meds for a lifetime. It also may turn out not to be the answer, listen to the doc, ask a lot of questions. I was suprised by just how much add affected our lives, I was focused on school and those behaviors, but things like not arguing with me as much, the little outbursts over stupid things went away, even the volume of my sons voice went down (he is a loud kid). Good luck and ((hugs)).
Tunnia, I feel for you. My ds is 7 and has adhd, on a moderate level. He hasn't interrupted class on a severe level and I am lucky with the teacher. Her son has tourettes (sp) so she is extra understanding. My ds was jsut diagnosed in December. I knew something was going on. He didn't seem to have any red flags until the second part of 1st grade. He started calling out in class, flipping his pencil, little things like that but he wouldn't stop when told to. He did the same things over the summer, he wouldn't sit still, wouldn't stop interrupting, yelling, and punishments did nothing. At first I blamed it on video games but taking them away did nothing. I then asked the opinions of his teacher and others and took him to the ped for an evaluation. His dr described him as being very bright, we just had to get his light focused instead of all over the place. He has been on concerta. The only problem he's having with that right now is it's hard for him to sleep. It doesn't make him a zombie, which was my fear. It just helps his self control and focus. I wasn't thrilled about giving him meds, but I decided it's not his fault. If it were something physical rather than mental I wouldn't question it. At first my dh was against it and I read kids with adhd tend to act differently with thier fathers than mothers so often dads don't think there is a problem. Please keep me updated. I know it's hard not to feel like the worst mother on earth when you can't get your kid to listen, but there's nothing you can do about it and it's not your fault or his fault.If he does have adhd, it involves the same brain chemicals as in depression. It's a hard position to be in where you can't let your kid just do what he wants but punishemnts are useless and seem unfair since he can't help what he's doing. When my ds began concerta there was an immediate difference. Hugs to you and your ds.
I was very worried also when I finally decided that I had to do something about my DDs ADHD and put her on meds, but then when she actually started taking the meds I found that I actually liked being around her again (I know that sounds awful when I say it but I had actually started trying to stay away as much as possible because of the stress it put on me not to mention her). My DD is now 12 and she is still a very wild child but her meds have taken the edge off so that she can sit down and do her school work most of the time and have a normal conversation occasionally, but she still has more energy that I could imagine having.
Kaye made a very good point when she said if you are frustrated just think about how frustrated he is. I actually wanted my DDs opinion (she was 8) on if she wanted to try the meds after talking to the dr extensively. She wanted them because she said that if it helped her have control then maybe she could have more friends (which was a BIG issue with her). I don't push meds for everyone, because they are not what's best for everyone, but I do find that if you talk to the dr about all your concerns they will let you know what they think is best and most doctors don't want to put anyone on meds that are not needed.
Good luck with your appointment and as Kaye said ask tons and tons of questions and try to go in there with an open mind.
I likely shouldn't say a word because I have never dealt with this before, but I often wonder why parents are so reluctant to put their child on drugs. I agree with Kaye, if you are frustrated with the way he acts out, how do you think he is feeling? I can't even begin to imagine how it would feel to be so anxious and have so much energy everyday that you can't sit still. Think of what he feels inside on a daily basis. I would think it would feel like you just want to jump out of your skin. He likely knows what is expected of him in school, but he just can't do it. I am SURE he wants to be able to sit like the rest of the kids in the class and doesn't want to be singled out like he is now.
Don't get me wrong, I do know that doctors and school and even some parents just want to drug the kids so they fit into some kind of "normal". And I agree that a lot of kids don't need medication, maybe just some extra patience or some lessons in self control. BUT, I do think that there are many good medications out there for kids that need them.
Just keep an open mind with your appointment tomorrow. Don't feel like you have finally "broke down". Don't feel like you have failed. Like someone else has said, some kids are just wired differently. He may not need medication, you won't know anything until after his evaluation. If he had a infection your wouldn't hesitate to give him antibiotics for it, don't write off drugs that might be needed for this either.
Hugs for you both, and please let us know how it goes!!
Gladly I don't have that kind of problem with my ds, but I have seen others and I feel for them.
I work at the school and there used to be a little boy (in first grade) who was sitting outside of the principals office everyday, sometimes for HOURS! I'm not joking, i would leave the school at 12:30 and come back at 1:30 and the boy would still be sitting there. He was not a bad kid either, and he wasn't mean, he was actually really sweet when he wanted to be but he just was very disruptive and could not sit still. He was actually moved to another school so he could be in a special classroom for kids like him.
There was also one time where a child who was in first grade (i'm not sure if it was the same kid or not, but I don't think it was). This child was sitting outside of the office literally Screaming. He was so loud that you could hear him down the halls. Yelling "i hate you, i'm going to kill you, my dad is going to kill you!" etc. etc. it was awful. ALmost like the poor thing was possessed.
I'm just telling you these stories to let you know that you are not alone.
Also, my nephew has something like Asperger's but apparently it is not exactly Aspeerger's. Anyway he was like your son in elemetary school. He couldn't function in a normal classroom well. He didn't like or couldn't write so they let him use the computers in the class to do his work. He would get violent with my sister and hit her and stuff like that. But again, he is not a mean kid, he is a sweet, VERY smart, loving boy.
They did take the dye out of his diet and eventually put him on some medication.
He is now 12 years old. I don't think he uses the medication much anymore. He has learned thru growing up and maturing, how to control himself.
I wish you good luck, and I hope he grows out of it like my nephew did.
Lots of hugs.
Ame
Vicki, I can answer your question on why it is hard decision for meds.
First ADHD isn't easy diagnosis, there isn't a test, it is really about is your kid and handful or not. And sometimes bad teachers, bad combinations with students, etc, can cause them to have behaviors that mimic a child with adhd. So parents hold out often that the diagnosis is wrong.
But the meds are strong, they are legal speed, they have been linked to heart issues, liver issues, brain issues, and even death. Mostly if they are used correctly they are safe, but just like vaccines, there is a risk. My husband has random drug testing at work, he has to disclose that he has a child on a methamphetamine and handles the medication, because simply touching some of the meds can put it in your blood stream. You are instructed to wash your hands with soap after handling the meds.
Also part of what makes an ADHD child who they are is their spunk and their creativity, kids on the wrong meds can lose that, they can walk around like zombies, can become a shell of who they are. With my son, we have tried 4 meds, not a single one has been our answer, it is frustrating and hard.
So I think it would be an easier choice if the disease itself were like a blood test, definative, and then there was one med that worked. But adhd isn't that way, and because each kid is so different and they have good moments you think, well maybe we can do this with behavior modification.
My dd is a prime example of the system going wrong. She was really struggling, we took her to a ped psych, I asked a lot of questions, filled out a lot of paperwork, and we went home with drugs. Yes they helped her, but after a couple of years of therapy, what we really learned it that he add is really a symptom of depression and when that is in check, her add doesn't exist. Add meds helped because they work like an antidepressant, they increase seratonin and all is good. Now we do see that she has bouts of attention issues, but she just needs a mild stimulant to get her through that and it is always a reaction to other stresses.
Thanks everyone! I know he has to be very frustrated as well and I can't imagine how it must feel to be inside his head. The other night our hearts just about broke when he asked "Does feeling full of energy make you forget things sometimes?" He was so wired he literally forgot to go to the bathroom even though he felt the need.
My ds is extremely bright (not just my opinion ), he seems to require very little sleep, is the messiest eater I have ever seen, and he doesn't really have any friends. He's a friendly child, but he just can't seem to bond with other children and he actually scares other children away. We placed him in another school in January of this year because his last teacher was horrible and she was going to fail him. He seemed to be doing much better for the first month and a half and then things really went down hill fast.
I'm not against drugs, per se, but I do see them as a last resort and sadly, that seems to be where we are. I am going to ask lots and lots of questions tomorrow and also ask about alternative treatments that I may not be aware of. I'm glad to hear that those of you with dks you've had to place on meds aren't zombies. That is one of my biggest worries. I don't want a robot I want a happy, healthy kid that sometimes messes up, but basically has control of himself so that he can function normally.
Thanks again for reassuring me that I'm not the only one going through this. Sometimes it just helps to know that others understand because not everyone (even family) understand that ds can't help it and they think it's our parenting.
We were posting at the same time, Kaye, but yes the drugs are scary and yes there are times when things seem very normal and as a parent I start to wonder if I was just being uptight or expecting too much. Today is a great example, this morning he was fine. Not abnormally active, not abnormally loud, listened and followed directions as is age appropriate, sat and read a couple of books. Fast forward to this afternoon--things have been out of control again. Meltdowns, not following even the simplest instruction, outbursts, screaming, no ability to focus on one thing at a time and he hit his sister, which is unusual for him, but he was very frustrated at the time.
I had not heard that adhd could be linked to depression, but it makes a lot of sense.
Stacy, I've never had first-hand experience with this, but my sister's only son is ADHD, ODD, suffers from clinical depression, has a non-verbal learning disability and I'm sorry I don't remember the technical term, but he has difficulty with humor - doesn't *get* jokes, can't make jokes......you could have been my sister writing the above post. I don't pretend to be knowledgeable about this either, but I feel for you, and any other parents AND their children who are in this situation.
My nephew has been through so much testing, seen so many doctors and psychiatrists and social workers and counselors....and they've tried different meds....it just breaks my heart.
And, my nephew is very intelligent, very sweet and affectionate, very curious, very thoughtful and considerate - at times. Other times he is very disruptful, very frustrated, very unfocused, very combative, very argumentative, constant meltdowns, needing constant attention and stimulation yet bounces from one thing to another.......and all of these things have intefered with his schooling and peer and family relationships. Sadly, he has NO friends, no one wants to be friends with him, and it tears me apart to listen to my sister, when she is at the end of her rope with frustration and feeling his pain, on top of her own.
He has been on Prozac for a few years, and they've tried other meds intermittently as well. I know that finding the right meds, or combination of meds, and finding the right school setting for him combined with a therapist he relates to made a huge difference. He will be 16 in August, and he has the emotional maturity of a 10 year old, he likes to play with toys and has interests that are not age appropriate for a 16 year old, more like a 10 year old. As much as I hate to admit it, when he was younger (age 3 to 10 maybe?), it was a struggle just to be around him.
When he was 13, they spent a week with me at Christmas, and I felt like I really got to know him for the first time. At that age, his behavior was markedly better than it had been for many years, and I discovered all the wonderful things about him that he'd never been able to let the world see before. It was a huge change from the way he'd been just 2-3 years before.
I guess with all my rambling, what I'm trying to say is I DON'T know how you feel, but I do sort of understand where you are coming from.
Have you had him evaluated for depression? If you haven't, maybe that is somewhere to start. I was sort of shocked when my sister told me that my nephew suffered from clinical depression at age 10, it never occurred to me that was possible in a child.
I am sorry you are feeling so frustrated and down, I learned from my sister just how exhausting it is when you are trying to find a way to deal with all of that. I know I haven't been any help, I just wanted you to know I care.
{{{{{{{{{{{{{HUGS}}}}}}}}}}}}
Tunnia, I just wanted to tell you I thought the same thing about 2 weeks ago. It seemed ds's meds weren't working anymore, then one day he seemed fine and I thought "Is it me?" Ds told me then one day he didn't know why he still took medicine because it didn't work anymore. If your little one does start on meds, it seems that is a whole new can of worms, just to warn you. I belong to another forum for moms of kids with adhd and since they are growing they can outgrow their dosage and become immune to it, so you have to keep up with all that. I also didn't realize you can't just get a refill. I have to go to the dr and sign a log that I picked up the rx, because it has street value. I had posted around December after ds was diagnosed and his meds helped him be my sweet guy again. I was so relieved. It was like confirmation it wasn't me,as well as I was happy he didn't have to feel the way he felt anymore. Dealing with what he was dealing with and not on meds made him depressed because he was almost always in trouble. If you start meds I think it would be good to keep his teacher informed. My ds teacher told me some parents never told her their child was on meds or they decided to stop and she had no idea why their child would all the sudden act so differently. She cut him a little slack since she knew we were going through. Well, I could talk about this all day so I'll stop now, . You are definitely not alone.
Thanks again!
We just got back from the doctors appointment and she gave us an rx for meds. She had evaluation forms from both dh and I and ds's teacher and then the appointment lasted an entire hour with her asking me questions and observing ds. When she first came into the room ds was in one of his calm phases. I always carry pen and paper with me because sometimes drawing will calm him. However, part way through the appointment he became frustrated with his drawing (he's very particular and meticulous about it) and it was like someone had flipped a switch and she was able to observe the behavior first-hand. I know it sounds horrible, but I was so glad that he went out of control in her presence so that she could really see what I was talking about. She said that he definitely has hyperactivity issues and also Aspergers (sp?) was brought up and said that ds would almost definitely benefit from meds, but she left it up to me whether we wanted to go that route, but she said that it sounds like we have nearly exhausted other options because we have already tried many of them. She did not dx ds with anything today, but wants him to have a more indepth evaluation to more accurately pinpoint his weaknesses and strengths before a dx will be made. I am actually feeling relieved. Just to have the confirmation that I'm not crazy and imagining this is comforting. I did ask ds if he would like to take some medicine that would help him control himself a little better and he said he would. He said that his head feels funny sometimes like his brain is wobbling around and wanted to know if the medicine would make that stop. Poor baby!
Thanks again for the BTDTs. I don't expect a miracle cure or anything, but I am hoping that our family can begin to function somewhat normally again and not totally focus on ds's behavior in every situation.
Rayelle, I am getting ready to call the school now. I'm going to talk to the director and leave a message for ds's teacher to call me tonight. I figure if I wait until school is out everyone will be gone since it's Friday and no one sticks around on Friday afternoons.
It sounds like you are on the right track. {{{HUGS}}}
It must be horrible to feel like your brain is "wobbling" around.
Tunnia I think this is great news. I mean, it's sad our kids have to deal with this but I'm happy for you for getting some answers. I know what it felt like for me! Last night I had to give my ds melatonin to help him sleep (doc receommended). I saw his teacher today and she told me he had the best day today, really calm and focused. Ds noticed too, he told me he had a great day. I think it's because he finally got a decent sleep. You may hit some bumps finding a solution, but it's definitely worth it. You had mentioned some family not understanding- my mom was sort of like "we're too good for adhd in our genes" ??????????? But she's better now. Email me anytime, it's in my profile. Hugs!
Don't expect a miracle but don't be to surprised if you get one. We were really lucky with my oldest and the first dose of the first med we tried was the right one and it was less than a week before everyone (teachers, family and friends) all started making comments about how wonderful it was to be around her now. Glad to hear you had a great experience with the doctor.
Good luck
What med did they prescibe you with? If it is metadate, or adderall, or ritlin, you might be suprised with how quickly the meds change things. Other meds take a little longer.
Good job, sounds like the appointment went well. My ds isn't officially dxed either, but there are just so many issues that it seems like the right option.
(((HUGS))) I have btdt. My oldest ds is adhd and one of the last dx was that he also had conduct disorder. Yeah, talk about feeling depressed. lol Read online about CD and you think kids that only have adhd are sooo lucky. Sad to say it.
At one point my doctor said 'if you need to take some medication while you are raising this child it would be understandable.' lol I totally get your comment about being glad the doc could see his behavior!! And about feeling like your crazy. You aren't crazy! But I get how you feel!
OK< so my youngest child...I am fearing has dyslexia. I am looking into getting him an evaluation this summer. He is 7 years old and is still struggling to read, writes horribly and consistantly backwards. So I think maybe he sees the letters backwards and that why he has trouble reading? ugh He still has the speech thing that everyone said would be outgrown and says words that we wouldnt normally use. he phrases things wierd. My middle ds and I have been discussing it and we think maybe he has an LD or a speech prob/hearing /seeing prob/dyslexia. lol We don't know.
Nope, you are not alone... Good luck with your eval and good luck with the med's. They do know they are diff. And it does effect their social skills. It's sad to watch.
What I don't understand is why are sooo many kids having these problems? Is it something in the environment? Food? What is going on?
((Tunnia)). Sounds like you got a good doctor. Hope things continue to improve.
Conni, I think you are right that their may be some outside cause to why this happens so much now. But I think at least some of it our new expectations. Think back to when we were in school, we certainly weren't expected to be a great reader in kinder. I think we have pushed so hard that very few kids fit in that box, on top of that, we have more parents working extra hours, many extracuricular activities, etc. So we have these kids that are expected to be very structured and routine driven and when they don't they stand out.
I think a lot of these children get things worked out by middle school.
The other culprit I think is information, we are all too aware that so and so can do this and that kids should be saying/doing this, that we are dx issues younger and back in the old days kids went undxed until they were real issues.
My sister's son has adhd and she is in the same situation as you, and he is also in the first grade. Thankfully, you have a teacher who can relate. My nephew's teacher has no tolerance for him at all and my sister is constantly going to the school in the middle of the day, or at departure time because they will not let him on the bus sometimes. The one thing about my nephew is, that if they would take a minute with him to "talk him down", then he would be ok for the time being. But that is only a temporary fix.
I had a little boy in foster care who I believe had adhd. He was too young to diagnose but knowing what I knew about my nephew, I could almost diagnose him myself. He was so difficult and trying and I literally collapsed into bed each night. The only problem was that he woke up two & three times a night. For eight and a half months, I was a walking Zombie, and a referee between him & his sister. We could not go anywhere with him and if I dared to go anywhere with him without my husband to tag-team with me, I always regretted it. If we went into our local Rite Aid pharmacy, he would go down the aisles with his hands out and try to knock over every single bottle on that row. He is now adopted and I talk with his mother from time to time and she always sounds exhausted. He is in kindergarten and has already been suspended as well. They did give him this supplement called Focusin which they said worked enough to help him focus. The school had him tested and the results showed he was a brilliant child. That same thing also applies to my nephew. His results showed well above average intelligence. Anyway, we are here to support so keep us updated as to how he is doing and if you find anything that works, let me know so I can tell my sis. Take Care. (((hugs)))
The doctor prescribed Metadate and we started him on it yesterday morning and oh my what a change already!!! We certainly didn't expect to see any changes this soon, but about two hours after his first dose dh and I both noticed that he wasn't quite as loud as usual and was almost using a normal volume when speaking about 50% of the time. We went to an outdoor kid's festival yesterday and ds only had two melt-downs while we were out and they weren't as severe and didn't last as long as usual. We did notice that he was starting to really rev back up by dinnertime, but all in all, yesterday was an absolutely wonderful day and the first time in a very long time that we've had real fun as a family! First thing this morning ds actually asked for his meds and told me that it made him feel a little funny at first, but then he felt better. Once again his volume is closer to normal and he has only had one minor melt-down so far today. He is happy, singing, playing and so far we've seen no adverse side effects, but I'm going to continue to keep a really close eye on him and while I still feel some concern about giving him the meds, I think we've made the right decision. The real test comes tomorrow when he goes back to school and I'm praying and crossing every finger and toe that tomorrow will be the day that I don't get a call from the school. I really dread the phone ringing during the daytime during the week. Thanks again for the btdt.
Stacy,
My oldest dd (14 this summer) started Metadate this week as well. She is on a pretty low dosage right now but we too saw some improvements right away. I know that there are people who are REALLY REALLY REALLY opposed to medicating children for ADD/ADHD but the situation with my dd was spiraling out of control and it wasn't good on several levels. We really feel that, for now, this is the best solution for her.
Feel free to eMail me any time if want to compare notes on the meds. S t o l z 7 at w i n d s t r e a m d ot net
I'm glad it's working out so far! I hope he has a better day at school tomorrow!
I'm glad the medication is helping. Hopefully, he will continue to do well on it.
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