Is Anyone Here a Hair Dresser??
Moms View Message Board: General Discussion: Archive March 2007:
Is Anyone Here a Hair Dresser??
I think Hol is....
Hol, if you're the one I'm thinking of, you once gave lots of awesome tips about coloring hair. Can I bother you for that advice again??
Right now I use Loreal Moisture Spa Color Actif. I'm terrified of permanent color because of the damage. This works well enough but I'm finding it doesn't last as long as it used to. Why can't you wash your hair before doing it? It bothers me to think I'm applying the stuff to hair that has hair spray in it...I figure the color won't adhere as well, so I end up washing it anyway. Is that really bad to wash it first?
Any tips you have would be very appreciated!! Thanks!
Colour should be applied to dry, unwashed hair because the oils, (and yes, even product) helps to disperse the colour better. "Just washed" hair is too clean, and therefore, the colour won't "grab" or hold as well or as long.
If you don't like permanent colour, (and I personally don't blame you), the absolute BEST demi-permanent colour is Redken Shades EQ. It has a conditioner in it that makes your hair very shiny, too. It washes out gradually, and doesn't leave any residue or regrowth line. The only drawback is that it is a "professional only" product. That means that only a licensed professional can buy it from a beauty supply store.
There ARE "over-the-counter" demi-permanent colours for non-professionals, such as "Loving Care" and Clairol has one whose name escapes me at the moment. (something "Essence", maybe?). I would advise the latter if you perm your hair beacuse "Loving Care" has metal salts in it (like silver nitrate) which coats the hair shaft and can cause breakage from the perm chemicals.
As far as putting the colour on over hairspray...the developer has peroxide in it. It will penetrate any product build up on the hair because it opens the cuticle of the hair.
Permanent colour DOES build up on the hair, so that is why professionals only colour the regrowth, and only put colour on the rest of the hair for the last ten minutes just to refresh the colour. Continued application of peroxide on the hair is what causes the damage.
Demi-permanent hair has a much lower % of peroxide...2 to 5% compared to 20%. Also, if you get sick of it, or want to try a different shade, you can do it with demi-permanent. You just can't vary too many levels lighter with demi-permanent BECAUSE of the low peroxide level.
Did that help? Maybe it was MORE than you wanted to know. LOL!
No, no, not more than I wanted to know!! I want to know MORE!! Thank you so much! I probably should have mentioned my goal here is covering grays, not changing my hair color. Is there any spectacular product out there that covers grays well? How does one obtain the Redken product?
Aren't there three 'levels' of color? The wimpiest, then a middle ground, then the strong stuff?
So, if you use a demi-permanent one (is that like level two??) can you redo your whole head or just the roots? I like the whole head thing because it's easier to not mess up!
I don't perm my hair. The Loreal stuff said to wet hair and then towel dry. You just said dry hair was best. Hmm.....
I did wash it last night so I guess this won't last long. 
Also, someone posted once about their hair getting greener with each shampoo. You said something about how shampooing it causes something to happen...I thought you said it made the color deeper or stronger, but that wouldn't make sense if you're saying washed hair doesn't let the color adhere very well....
Thank you for your advice! Can't wait to hear more!! Do you currently practice?
I have been wanting this same advice. My hairdresser won't even talk to me about it. I never even thought to post my questions here. I too just want to cover up the gray, not change my color and not have the growth line like I have right now which my hairdresser promised wouldn't happen.
Also, Hol, some of my hairs are *gasp* WHITE!!! Is there something special I need to do for that??
Someone told me if you pluck the hairs out they grow back in all wiry and ten times worse....is this true?
Why won't your hairdresser discuss it with you Debbie? I was just curious. I'm a redhead with several WHITE hairs showing up now and we are definitely talking about it!LOL
I have only had my hair colored once in my life in August. I've been putting it off. Then I kept a friend's kids all summer because I like the kids and dd loves them and we had a great time. I didn't want her to pay me (she gave me money any time we went somewhere fun so that didn't come out of my pocket). So at the end of the summer she got me a $150 gift certificate to the place I get my hair cut and I decided to use some of it to get it colored to just cover up the gray. Well, it was $75 to get that first coloring. I just about choked. Had no idea it would be that expensive. But as she was going through each step, I'd ask "What if I wanted to do it myself?" Her response "Just come in and let me do it. It's better for your hair." "What color are you putting on?" "It's a special mix." And on and on. All of my questions were answered very vaguely or just flat don't buy something at Wal-mart. I was very put off. I just kinda figured that she wanted to make the money or maybe not have to correct my mistake. I don't know. She'd cut my hair about a half dozen times.
After that I decided to change to another lady in the shop who is the mother of one of dd's friends. I haven't even brought up coloring my hair to her yet.
One of my girlfriends said she colors her own hair all the time and she'd take me to Sally's to get some color and we'd do it. Her hair is always vibrant and pretty. I just wanted to know more about what I would be doing.
Okay...let me see if I can answer your questions. First, the reason that hairdressers are vague about what they use, how YOU can do it, what to use, etc, is that they are trying to create a mystique that you HAVE to go to them. That protects their livlihood. They used to stress that in school to us all the time. Some are so bad that they won't even give you your colour formula if you want to go to another place. We were told to mix it all in the back room, and keep it all hush hush. I never believed in that. I managed a shop for a lady on my road who had been doing it for many years, but was getting up in years, lost her husband, so wanted to spend most of the year in Florida. She didn't want to close her shop and leave her long time clients high and dry, so I ran it. I would show my clients what I used, tell them why I was doing what, and got them products if they wanted them. Most didn't try to do colour themselves because they liked being pampered at the shop. We had the soap operas on the TV and the coffee pot on, and we had a ball! LOL!
RedkenShades EQ is FABULOUS for covering greys. And you are right about the levels. There is level one, which is temporary colour. That is like the FanciFul rinses that mostly elderly ladies have put on their hair. It is just vegetable colour and washes out in one shampoo (it also can run down your face if you get caught in the rain. Yikes! LOL! Level 2 is demi-permanent which washes out in about 12-16 shampoos. It mostly coats the hairshaft. Only a little bit penetrates the cuticle. It makes the hair really shiny. I love it because it leaves no regrowth line. Level 3 is permanent colour. Like I said before, it has a pretty strong level of peroxide in the developer, so it open the cuticle way up,a nd deposits the colour on the cortex of the hair. The only way this colour goes away is to cut it off or let it grow out.
To explain all this cuticle, cortex stuff, picture this: take a hair shaft. If you could look at it under the microscope, it would be covered by these microscopic, overlapping layers, much like the outer layer of your skin. It protects the cortex. When hair is shiny, the cuticle layers are closed down tight. When you see someone with very damaged hair, it is because the cuticle is wide open. Then, inside the hair shaft is the cortex. This is the srength of the hair, and contains the colour (Cuticle scales are clear). Inside of that is the medula, which gives the hair shaft density. People with fine, blonde hair usually don't have a medula. When you colour your hair, the peroxide opens the cuticle and deposits the colour on the cortex. Then, washing and conditioning hair closes the cuticle back down and seals in the colour. That's why it is important to use shampoo and conditioner for colour treated hair, to keep the cuticle sealed and prevent fading.
Yes, you do put demi-permnanet on your whole head, not just regrowth. It is nice for fine hair, too, because it thickens each hair shaft, and gives your hair more body.
Now, there is also a tone system in hair colouring. That is: gold, neutral or natural, and ash. Gold will add red tones (tricky, because it can cause brassiness),usually with a red or orange base. Ash tones cancel out red, and usually have violet or green babses. That's why using ash tones too much is ONE of the reasons that hair can turn green. (The other reason is because coloured hair is more porous, and absorbs copper from your tap water, like a faucet drip will turn your sink blue/green). Natural, or neutral is neither gold nor ash. It IS usually the most natural looking. You will usually notice a "G", or "A", or "N" after the clour number to designate tone.
The other type of "level" is the shades, the lower the number, the darker the colour. 1 would be black, and 11 or 12 would be palest blonde.
I'm not familiar with the L'Oreal product that you are using, but some demi-permanent colours DO call for applying it to damp hair. Loving Care is the same way. Permnanent colour is ALWAYS applied to dry hair.
I'm going to post this, then continue. I'm afraid of losing all of this.
No, I don't practice anymore, except family and friends, just to keep my skills sharp. I was VERY ill with Lyme Disease in the summer of 2005 that left me with SEVERE osteoarthritis in my knees. I walk with a cane now, and have a handicapped parking placard in my car because I can't stand or walk for long periods of time. I now have a "sit down" office job. However, I LOVE sharing my knowledge, and helping others.
Debbie, if you have a regrowth line, your hairdresser used permanent colour on you.
ALL grey hairs are really WHITE hairs. As we age, our follicles "forget" how to produce colour, so grey hairs are really white hairs in various stages of losing their melanin (the colour pigment in the hair). Also, as your natural colour goes away, it makes it harder for artificial colour to last, since there are fewer colour molecules to grab the colour.
And no, it is an old wives tale about plucking out a grey hair and getting two, or making it courser. (Like shaving your legs makes it grow in thicker. NOT!)
Yes, getting your hair coloured in a salon IS very expensive. It isn't the product that costs so much. You are paying for the skill, training and time of the stylist. Like, having brakes done on your car. Brake pads don't cost that much. It is the skill of the person installing them.
If you have a friend who has a beauty license, they can buy Redken for you in a supply house. Redken controls WHO can sell their products, so you won't see it in Sally's because it is open to the public and not "professionals only". GOOD salons use Redken (Their perms are gorgeous, too).
If you don't perm, you can try "Loving Care". You can get that in Sally's and it works well.
I hope I have answered your questions. Feel free to post if you think of anymore questions. 
I just wondered! It IS expensive, but as a redhead, I wouldn't trust myself to do it at home. And I still have gray hair...hence the price!LOL It's hard to justify when I could spend $75 on something else.
Thank you, Hol!!! You're wonderful!! You've helped so much, I really appreciate all your time and expertise!!
I thought Loving Care was something you could buy at a grocery store, too. Aren't they of the 'I'm gonna wash that gray right out of my hair' commercial fame?? Does Loving Care have that gold, ash, neutral designation?
Is conditioner that important for demi permanent colored hair?
Is there a shampoo and conditioner you recommend for everyday use?
This conversation is fascinating... I have thick light brown hair and although I'm not ready to start dyeing it yet, I know the time is coming before too long as the whites are appearing more and more frequently and eventually there will be too many to pluck out. :o)
How do you determine what color to get? I have never colored my hair and I don't want to change the color. I just will want to cover the gray and keep my hair as close to its natural color as possible. When you're looking at all the colors available, do you try to match, go a shade darker, a shade lighter, or what? Any tips on that?
Thanks!
Yes, you can purchase Loving Care at Walmart, Sally's, Walgreen's, grocery stores, etc. And, yes, it is the one of "washing grey out of my hair" fame. It is easy to use and leaves your hair really shiny. I just wouldn't recommend it if you perm your hair, because of the metal salts in it, as I mentioned.
There is another one (I remembered the name) called "Natural Instincts" by Clairol. (I was way off base before on the name). It is demi-permanent, and has lots of herbal things in it that are good for your hair.
Yes, Loving Care has the Gold, Neutral, and Ash designation. Look for "N" or "A" after the colour level. If it has neither, consider it gold. Some people say that gold adds depth and counters the "washed out" look that hair gets when it starts to grey. However, I have some red in my hair (mine is light brown), and if I used something with gold it in, I'd look like Carrot Top! LOL!
Yes, conditioner is good for ALL hair, coloured or not. What it does is seal down the cuticle to protect the colour in the cortex (natural or artificially coloured). It smooths and moisturizes the hair and adds shine. It also helps protect hair from dryness and static in the winter. Conditioner is acid based (a pH of about 6.5) which is about what your hair and skin are when they are healthy. Did you ever notice that, when you use a soap that has a high alkaline content (a pH of 8 and above), like Ivory, how tight your skin feels afterward? It is because it is very harsh because the pH is higher than the normal skin.
Perms and colour are higher in alkalinity, and that is what opens the cuticle to deposit the colour, (or in the case of perming, it actually changes the amino acid bonds of the hair. We had to study lots of chemistry and physiology in cosmetology school. LOL!) So, it follows, that you need something acidic to seal the cuticle back down, and restore the hair to a neutral, albeit, slightly acidic pH. (Here's another fact: the slight acidity of the skin protects it against bacteria entering it. Skin high in alkalinity tends to get more irritated and raw).
For years, women have used vinegar and water or lemon juice and water as a rinse because they are acidic and promote shine.
There are some good shampoos out there for colour treated hair. Pantene makes a good one. L'oreal (which now owns Redken) has excellent shampoos and conditioners for colour treated hair. They are gentler and lower pH to protect your colour and make it last longer.
With demi-permanent, it is best to stay as close to your natural colour as possible. You can even snip a little piece of hair from underneath, near your neck and match it to the swatches at the store display. Also, look at the box. It will say, "if your natural colour is..., this will be the result". Just keep in mind that the colours you see on the box were coloured over white hair. Some professionals say to go a shade darker than your natural colour because it WILL fade (the very nature of demi-permnanet is that it washes out gradually). Don't panic if it comes out darker than you're used to. Wash it a few times and it will lighten up).
You can't really go lighter because there isn't enough peroxide in it to lift colour. You are only coating the hair shaft.
You will notice that Loving Care and Natural Instincts will say "no peroxide" "no ammonia". There is SOME peroxide anyway, for the reasons that I mentioned. However, you don't want ammonia beacuse it will lift the cuticle too much. The old alkaline thing again.
BTW - it is the ammonia in perms that make them smell so bad, and why, if you didn't time the perm, your hair would turn mushy and break off. The active ingredient in Nair hair REMOVER is ammonium hydroxide. It DISSOLVES the hair on your legs, etc.
Any other questions?
Yes Hol--- I have a question. I have tried 4 times to have my hair professionally colored. Each time was not successful. I have black hair. I have tried to get highlights and each time I ended up with orange highlights and the professional could not explain why. I tried last year and the highlights ended up striped! The root was orange (like a carrot) and the end was auburn red. Why can't I get highlights? I see a lot of dark haired woman with them?
I recently started using Garnier Nutrisse (sp?) red haircolor that actually dyes my white (gray) hair but seems to leave the black hair black. It gives the appearance of highlights but I am at the mercy of where my white hair is growing in.
Help....advice please
WOW, Yvonne!!! Somehow I TOTALLY pictured you with light brownish reddish, curly hair!!! You've really thrown me with the idea of it being black, LOLOL! A really fun post would be what everyone THINKS a person looks like, and then the real person clues them in.
Thank you, again, Hol!! You've been SO helpful! I shall pass this info on to friends and family!!
Kate--Maybe because you have seen pictures of my daughter. Her hair is the same as mine (curly and long) BUT mine is black and hers is red.
Yvonne - your colour hair is tough to highlight. Being so dark, it has to go through several stages of lightening to get to the highlights. The in between stage is orange!! Let me try to explain this.
As I mentioned before, all hair colour, including natural colour, is in a range of 1 to 11. One being the darkest. In order to go from 1 to maybe 8 or 9, you have to go through all those stages. And EVERYONE has red in their hair. The darker the hair, the more red. Someone with light, naturally blonde hair has very little red pigment.
Now to get from such dark hair, you need a high percentage of peroxide. I don't even think that 30 would do it, which is what is used to lighten most shades. You would probably need 40. Now, it stands to reason that the more peroxide (alkalinity) the more damage to the hair. (You always damage the hair to a certain extent with ANY chemical treatment). Therefore, you have to be VERY careful not to leave the peroxide on too long. However, if you don't leave it on long ENOUGH, you haven't lightened to a high enough stage, and you get red or orange.
Now, in the case of your striped highlights, remember something. The hair at the ends is older, and has been exposed to the elements longer, i.e. sun, wind, cold, etc. It is going to therefore be more damaged, AND a different colour than the "virgin" hair that it newly growing out of your scalp. Also, since you are greying, the new hair is going to be MORE grey than the ends. Remember when I said that grey (white) hair has fewer colour moloecules, and therefore, fewer molecules to hold the artificial color. So, where there is more grey, it is going to be lighter. In the case of your striped highlights, the hair at the ends was darker than at the roots, so there were more levels of lightening to go through than at the roots, which has more grey, and is therefore lighter, so the roots go to orange before the ends did. (We called that "hot roots" in the trade. ha ha!).
Now, when you use the Garnier Nutrise all-over colour, it is going to be darker on the black hair because there are more colour molecules to grab the new colour. On the white hairs, there are NO colour molecules, so the colour doesn't "grab" as well, giving you the highlighted look. Does that make sense? You will also find that the formerly white hairs will fade more quickly for the same reason.
If you could look at a single hair under a microscope, a strand that had natural colour would be nice and plump and uniform in shape. If you put a grey/white hair under the same microscope, it would look like Swiss cheese. There would be these little divits in it where the colour molecules are missing. That is why grey hair is more fragile and breaks more easily. Artificially colouring your hair does make it stronger and shinier because you are filling in the divits.
The only problem is in the process itself. Colouring hair is actually a two-step process in one. You are lifting the present colour by the peroxide developer opening the cuticle and exposing the cortex. At the same time (it seems confusing, I know), you are DEPOSITING the new colour onto the hair shaft, coating it with colour, and plumping it up. That is why a good conditioner is important after shampooing, to close down the cuticle and seal in the colour. Also, a shampoo with colour treated hair should NEVER have "ammonium laurel sulfate" in it (too alkaline). "sodium laurel sulfate" is salt based, and not as harsh. It won't open the cuticle as much and strip the colour from the cortex.
Bottom line is, your hair is probably too dark to get blonde highlights. In order to get it to that level, it would be too damaging to your hair. Your hairdresser probably didn't want to tell you that she was afraid to leave the bleach on that long for fear of "frying" your hair. If you are greying, all over colour is probably the way to go because the colour will grab lighter on the grey/white hair, and give you a multi-tonal look, which looks more natural anyway.
Also, what texture is your hair? If it is course, it is harder to lift the colour.
It is interesting that Asian and Native American people that have REALLY black, straight hair also have very DENSE hair. By that, I mean that the hair shaft itself is very strong and thick. Because it is, it actually DULLS the hairdressers scisssors quicker. You never see Asian or Native American women with highlights or even lightened hair because it just won't lighten.
The study of hair, to me. is very interesting. I never knew, until I went to school, that there is so much to it. I have fine hair, but it is thick (though not as much as before I went through menopause). It is bone straight (both of my birth kids got my hair, as opposed to DH's wavy hair). I was blonde when I was little, and it went darker brown as I got older. Then, when I started to grey, it faded and got lighter brown again. I have had highlights over the years, but now God is highlighting it for me! LOL! I tried having highlights a couple years ago and they didn't even show. I don't presently colour my hair. When I did, I used Shades EQ. I DO perm twice a year, just to give me some body.
What else do you want to know? This is fun!
And yes, I think it would be fun to try to guess what other people think we look like, if we don't have a picture in or profile.
Hol--Thanks for all the information. the last attempt (the stripes) they had the bleach on my hair for over 6 hours. I had enough at the point and said no more. I was afraid I would walk out with straw. The hair looked like mush.
I have extremely thick, coarse, curly hair.
I wanted red highlights not blonde. I though red would be easy to achieve but orange seems to be my color
I will just give up on highlights.
I wish I could take Holly to shop with me. I appreciate all of the advice so much. What you said about keeping it all hush-hush and creating a mystique is kind of what I thought. I specifically told her that I just wanted to cover the gray and didn't want to be able to tell that I had my hair colored. After she got done with round 1, she said she didn't like the way something looked and put a toner on it. It wound up very noticeably lighter, didn't cover the gray in the temple above my left ear that I was especially fretting over and I have a very noticeable growth line now.
So my girlfriend colors her own hair and buys stuff at Sally's and said we could do just as well. Her hair always looks very pretty. But I am so intimidated by the color and stuff and wanted to be a little more knowledgeable before I go spending money and messing with my hair.
Thanks so much for all of the info.
You're welcome. My pleasure! Yvonne, SIX HOURS!! You're lucky you had any hair left! 90 minutes should have been the max! It wasn't going to lighten up any more after that. And, if you got orange, that means that she went PAST red. Did she pull it through a cap or do foils? If she had pulled it through a cap, she could have washed the bleach out, dried the hair that was through the cap, and put a red tint on it. It might have given you the colour that you wanted.
Debbie, sometimes hairdressers will try to cover up the fact that they made a mistake by saying that "I don't like the way it looks. Let's do a toner", etc (for example). Toner is nothing more than a blonde tint, and obviously, it must have been permanent colour for you to have a regrowth line. Also, because grey IS so resistant to taking colour, like I mentioned, you always put the colour on the greyist areas FIRST, so it is on longer than the rest. What I do is part the hair in four sections, like a cross, and secure each section with a clip. Then, I apply the colour first all around the hairline, paying special attention to the temples, because that is where most people go grey first. Then, I apply the colour along the parts. Then, I take each of the "quarters" (sections) of the hair, and work on one at a time, leaving the others in the clips. I apply PERMANENT colour with a bowl and brush. I can be more precise that way. If it is demi-permanent, you can use a squeeze bottle with a long nozzle on it because you are applying it all over the head anyway. With the colour brush, which has a long pointed handle, (like a rat-tail comb), I take one tiny slice of hair from the quarter that I am working on. If it is virgin hair, I paint both sides of the slice with my brush, and then carve out another slice, and so fourth. I do that on all four quarters of the head, and then go back and retouch the hairline and temple area again. After all of the hair is covered with tint, I let it sit on the hair usually a full 45 minutes for good penetration. Some hairdrssers will put a plastic cap on and put you under the dryer to speed up the process because time is money. However, I think it dries the hair out too much, hence risking more damage. I let it process at room temperature, and use the heat of your head to process. After the 45 minutes, I bring the client to the shampoo sink, add a little warm water, and work it into a nice shampoo lather. Be VERY careful NOT to get tint in your eyes because it can cause blindness, and NEVER tint your eyebrows or eyelashes with hair tint. They have special tint for that. If you do get tint in your eyes, flush your eyes with lots of water immediately!! Anyway, I rinse all of the tint out, then give the client a good shampoo with regular shampoo and then conditioner. If you get tint on your skin, and you get staining, especially at the hairline, the best thing that takes colour out of skin is more colour! When shampooing with the tint, add water to the stained skin and gently massage the area with your fingers, then rinse with the rest of your hair. If you haven't gotten the staining off the skin before you get to the regular shampoo stage, the shampoo will SET the stain. Then you have to buy this stuff at Sally's that takes the tint off your skin. It is only a problem with the darker shades.
If you are only doing re-growth, the steps are the same, but you only paint the tint on your regrowth and time it 35 minutes. You only add colour to the rest of the hair the last ten minutes, for a total of 45 minutes. Again, this is for permanent colour. With dem-permanent, you do it every four to six weeks, and you do it all over everytime. The washing out phase is the same.
You HAVE to do those grey temples first if you hope to cover them because they are very resisitant.
If you aren't sure, demi-permamnent is the way to go because it is easy to do yourself. If you are going to be sectioning, etc., you need someone else to help you.
I have a lot of beauty products left over from my hairdressing days...lots of mousse,gels, sprays, developer, etc. I called the local vocational high school last week and asked if they could use it; that I would donate it to them. The instructor was thrilled and said to plan on staying so that I could get a free manicure, facial, scalp massage, or whatever I wanted. She asked me if I would critique the students, and advise them. I told her I would love to.
That is an option, too. If you live near a hairdressing school or vocational high school, avail yourself of their services. The prices are very reasonable, and everything is done under the guidance of the instructor. The students need a real life person to work on, so everybody wins. You can even bring your own product if you want. I personally would love a facial or a scalp massage because those are indulgences that I can't justify spending big bucks at a spa.
Any other questions?
She used a squirt bottle with a long tip. But she sectioned me off and did each section. Then she put a plastic bag on my head and under the dryer I went.
Will the demi-permanent cause the blindness and staining, too. I was thinking about doing the coloring and getting into the shower. It will run down on my face when I shower, get in my eyes and stain my face. So how do I wash my hair after?
You are such a good bean. Thanks.
Demi-permanent doesn't stain the skin much because the peroxide is so low. It is still a good idea NOT to get it in your eyes because it is still analine derivative dye (coal tar). What I have done is kneel by the side of the tub, do the "shampooing" and rinsing part of the colouring under the tub faucet (I have a hand held shower head), then actually get under the shower for the regular shampoo step. Just keep your eyes closed tightly while kneeling under the faucet, and keep a wet washcloth handy incase it does get in your eyes.
Thank you for all of the info. I have printed off alot of it to reread when I go to the store to get my stuff or go to somebody else to get my hair colored. I would like to try to do it myself.
I appreciate the time you have spent typing up all of that info. Thanks again. Want to go shopping???
You are most welcome!! If I were nearer, I'd gladly do your hair for you, or go to the store with you.
Hol, lol, it's my turn to ask a question now! I am envious of people who don't need to wash their hair every day. My hair is long, and the bottom half is normal to dry. It is the top of my hair that gives me a problem. I wash it and the next morning it is oily and if I brush it, it will almost stick together. So, I have to wash every day. My hair is not dyed or permed so it is virgin hair. The bottom part of my hair will get knotty real easy so I keep a brush with me at all times. Don't suggest a short haircut because I really won't look right with short hair. I would like a perm because I like the look of curl in my hair but I worry about breakage especially around the area above the forehead. My hair is thin and suseptible to breakage. If i had the courage, I would shave it and start all over. LOL! The shampoo I use is for fine thin hair to give it volume so I know I am ok with the shampoo, and besides, I try a lot of shampoos and the morning results are always the same. I always use a conditioner on bottom part of my hair as you suggested a long time ago, and that does help, and I make sure absolutely no condition gets near the problem area. What do you think?
bump
LOL, Hol! This is great. You and my best friend, who is also a hairstylist, would get along great. She always explains all this stuff to me but it goes over my head. LOL! I just let her play with my hair and have always been happy with the results. However, she is the ONLY person I trust to do this. You would think all hairdressers are the same, but they are NOT. Some are much more talented and skilled than others. I personally think some hairstylists don't explain this stuff simply because they don't KNOW themselves. Judging by some of the color and perm disasters I've seen and heard of, this very well could be true!
Okay, lets take Sandy first since she asked first. LOL! I can relate to the fine hair, and fear of perms,because I, too, have only ONE hairdresser that does my own perms, and has for years. She knows her stuff. I bring my own perm, which the owner of the shop has no problem with (less she has to buy). I use ONLY Redken perms, and ONLY acid perms, and ONLY the one that doesn't process under the dryer. I get very little breakage at my hairline (some is inevitable because the hair at the hairline is very fragile. The hair at the back of your head is the strongest and thickest. That's why when you see little old ladies with thinning hair, it is almost always at the top/front, and the hairline. (The top/front is hormonal, but that is another subject). I wear curly bangs, so if I do get breakage, it doesn't show.
As far as having oily hair, a lot of that is determined by heredity, hormones and diet. If your Mother or Dad had oily hair, you probably will, too. Also, how old are you? Women's hair is oiliest during the menstrual years, and oiliest during pregnancy. (Although that's when I had the strongest fingernails. The prenatal vitamins ). Once you go through the "change" your hair gets dry, generally. Mine did. Also, a high fat diet will cause oiliness. That's why they tell you to consume some sort of oil (like olive oil) if your hair is dry.
You do right to only condition the ends. Also, NEVER BRUSH WET HAIR. You will break your hair because it is very fragile when wet. Always comb it with a wide toothed comb when wet. A wide toothed comb is one of your best investments. Also, when you brush, try to just brush the ends to eliminate knots. If you stimulate the scalp too much it will send the oil glands into overdrive.
You could also try a vinegar rinse or a lemon juice rinse once or twice a week. One tablespoon of cider vinegar or lemon juice to one pint of warm water. Squeeze the excess water out after washing your hair, pour the rinse mixture through and massage it in. Then rinse out, squeeze hair, and towel dry. (Don't worry. You won't smell like a salad). That will TEMPORARILY dry up the oils. Also, DON'T USE CONDITIONER on the days you use the "mixture". It is very acidic and closes the cuticle nice and tight, so you shouldn't need the conditioner.
Other than that, I don't really have a solution for you since it is more metabolic than external.
Now, Trina...unfortunately, not all hairdressers are alike. I have encountered some bad ones, too, in my life time. I think it mostly has to do with TALENT, which you either have or you don't. That, and a true love for the profession. You have to have an interest in it, and be doing it for that reason; not because your Mother was a hairdresser, or you think it's glamourous, etc. (it's not. You put in long hours on your feet). It also has to do with training. You are only as good and as skilled as the people who trained you. And, just like there are good and bad doctors, lawyers, auto mechanics, house painters, you name it, the same goes for cosmetologists.
LISTENING is also crucial to hairdressing. As they always told us in school, you have to HEAR what your client is saying, not what you THINK they are saying. For instance, when a client says they want their haircut "over the ear", does it mean that they want the ear covered, or does it mean that they want it cut above the ear? You need to really get them to explain it to you, and take the time to listen. Too many shops have a very fast pace. Time is money, they used to tell us in school. However, I would rather do fewer clients in a day, do it to their satisfaction, and have them come back. That, to me, is preferable to cranking out a string of quicky jobs, using cheap products, just to boost profits, and have them never come back. I went to someone like that years ago, when I didn't know any better. My hair always looked fried. If you work for someone like that, you have to conform to their ways. That's why I loved the woman I worked for. Her philosophy was the same as mine. Like I said before, we had a great time, and no one wanted to leave. LOL! We wanted coming to the shop to be a relaxing experience.
Some hairdressers don't know how to perm and colour because they don't know the "theory" of the training (all the chemistry and anatomy stuff). It could be because they weren't taught, or because they didn't care to learn. If you don't understand what chemicals do what, and you don't understand the physiological make up of hair, skin and nails, then you won't know what you are doing.
There is another theory that we had to study called the theory of colour. We had to learn the "colour wheel". What colours in the spectrum were "opposite" other colours, so that for instance, if you want to cancel red or orange out of hair, you would use a tint that had a green or violet base. (I once had a pair of prescription sunglasses made and the optician tinted the lenses green. He did it wrong, so that when I wore them, I could never see the colour of anything red. A stop sign looked grey. That is the theory of colour.
Also, the licensing requirements are different for different states. In my state, we need 1500 hours of training (about one year, going full time) to take the exam for licensure. Half of that time (750 hours) is theory. In my state, we also have to take a written exam (2 hours) and a practical exam, where we have to do all the beauty services on a live model (AND you have to provide your own. LOL!) Some states are stricter, some are more lax. Also, some states, (mine ISN'T one), require so many hours of continuing education per year to KEEP your license. I think that is a good thing. Methods and styles change all the time. That's why some shops seem to get "stuck" in one time era.
I miss it a lot, but my knees are too bad now to be on my feet that long. I still like to do some in my home for family and friends.
Hi Hol. I do have hormonal imbalances which are probably to blame. I am 36. If i decide not to get a perm, then I might get highlights. Do you think highlights will help? You've taken a lot of time answering our questions and I want to thank you for that.
My pleasure, Sandy! Yes, highlights WILL help. Bleached hair tends to be drier, so it will "appreciate" the oil. Also, bleached hair is a little denser in texture, so it will make your hair feel thicker.
Hol, I went to the store today and did not see any with the G or N or A for gold, neutral, or ash. Where can I find these?? I really want an 'N' one. I saw Loving Care but they didn't have those letters, either. Also, I think the Loving Care washed out in six to twelve shampoos. I'm looking for longer than that.... I forgot the other one you had mentioned, Clairol Natural Instincts, so I didn't specifically investigate that one. It's very overwhelming out there!!!
Hol, I have been reading this thread with great interest! What a wealth of information. You are great. I am printing this one out, too, as I struggle with the hair color dilemma. Yet, I wonder if I could ask, did you ever work with little ones? LOL, you probably know where this is going. Any good advice for a little girl with shoulder length, extremely thin hair who currently has a bird's nest on the back of her head? I kid you not. She hates to have her hair brushed, even with the softest of brushes. Do you know of something I could spray on her hair, perhaps when dry to help me get the snarls out? I've tried the no tangles stuff when wet, but it's beyond that now! Her ends are fine, it's just the hair right next to her scalp on the back of her head that's bad. It must hurt her to have me pull, even though I try so hard not to. My dh thinks it would help to get her a short cut,:-( but I still think the hair next to her scalp will knot up.
Thank you in advance...any suggestions would be most appreciated!
Kate - Maybe it is only the 'professional' products that have the letter designation on them, although I do believe that I HAVE seen the letter designations on L'oreal Preference and L'Oreal Excellence which are in the drugstores, but they are PERMANENT colour. If it doesn't have a letter designation, it IS neutral or natural (N).
There IS a more lasting Loving Care, I forget what it says on the box, but it is a little longer lasting, I think 16-20 shampoos. I have seen it in Walmart. Clairol Natural Instincts is there, too, and it is very good. It has a lot of herbal stuff in it that is good for your hair.
Nicki - I used to have the same problem with my DD. She had long, fine blond hair, and would cry when I tried to comb the snarls out. The only thing I can suggest is a wide-toothed comb, and the detangle spray that you have been using. Or, here's a thought. I recently tried Sunsilk Styling Creme, the one in the yellow pump bottle. It is supposed to add body but I find it makes my hair very soft, and VERY easy to wet comb. It's really slick and slippery. You could try rubbing it in at the scalp, at the "nest" (LOL), let it sit a minute or so, then try gently combing out the knot in small strokes. You could also stick the "tail" of a rat-tail comb in the midst of it and gently tug. She must be a back sleeper, and it gets tangled while she sleeps. A short haircut would help some, because you wouldn't have so much hair to deal with.
Thank you so much, Hol. I am going out to the store tonight and will get some of that Sunsilk Styling Creme. Yes, she is a back sleeper. If I brush her hair daily with a natural bristle brush I can keep ahead of most of the snarls. She recently was ill with the flu for a few days, so I didn't put her through the brushing. It just gets bad sometimes. Thank you so much! You are a sweetie to help all of us out. It's a shame you aren't able to practice any longer. You are wonderful. I imagine your clients were very sad to see you leave!
One of my coworkers has two-toned hair. On the crown, it's pretty blonde, and the rest is more brown, but it sort of blends, from the light to the dark, like a gradient. It looks so good on her. I keep toying with the idea of getting color, but have never quite been brave enough and don't really want to spend the money. Yet, time marches on and nature is giving me highlights, although probably not the color I really wanted! LOL!
Holly---OMG! I did it. I bought some hair color when I was out with my girlfriend a few weeks ago. I didn't having my copies of the thread b/c I was only going to McD's when I left the house.
This is what I bought--Clairol Professional Complements Demi-Color 4N Light Brown natural base.
First, I want to tell you thank you from the bottom of my hairline. There were NO instructions in that package. I guess b/c the pkg says that it is intended for licensed cosmetologists only. And they would know what to do with it. But I'm not and I didn't so I looked back over this thread. And in one of your posts you told me everything I needed to know to do it.
I put the plastic bag on my head but didn't get under a dryer. When I took the bag off, I screamed. My hair looked black. I rinsed and then shampooed. It toned down some but it is still so dark with some reddish or goldenish highlights to it. The gray is covered and the two tone (that I wasn't supposed to have) is gone. It is soft and shiny and feels nice. It is just so much darker than I wanted or expected. This is only the second time in my life that my hair has been colored. My friend said not to worry that it would fade with each washing. It's not bad, it's just really dark.
Any comments? Any suggestions for next color choice?
When I told dh about it, and warned him not to say anything if he can't think of anything nice to say, he laughed and said to have dd call him when I pick her up from school. LOL
Holly--dd (6 yo) looked at me funny when she got into the van. She asked if I'd cut my hair. Then she said that something looked different but it was nice. I told her what I'd done. She said "Oh goody, now that you know how to do that, you can give me pink streaks!!!" (I don't think so. LOL)
When dh came home, he looked it over and said it looked pretty but didn't understand what I was fretting about. He said that it was just about as close to my original color as I could have picked out.
I DO NOT remember my hair color being this dark.
It does look nice, just really dark.
Wow, Debbie, that's HUGE when a husband notices and even compliments!! LOL!!
That is a good product that you bought, and it sounds like you did it correctly. It WILL fade, as that is the nature of demi-permanent colour. However, the "professional" products do last longer.
What is your natural colour (before the grey )?. Even though the colour was called Light Brown, a #4 is more a dark brown. Remember when I stated that colour goes in levels...1 to 11 or 12, with one being the darkest (almost black) and 11 and 12 being really pale blonde? If your hair is a light brown, naturally, you are probably more a level 6 or 7. You did right, though, to get a neutral base (N). (I am a 6 or 7, before the grey).
It could be, because you had started to grey, that your hair had faded and you really don't remember it darker. You had kind of gotten used to the lighter colour.
Unfortunately, you can't LIGHTEN hair with demi-permanent because of the very low level of peroxide in it. However, after it fades, you can try a 6N or 7N. That will probably be more to your liking. However, everyone seems to like it, so it probably looks very pretty.
Debbie, what store offered that professional product??
I got it at Sally's. The lady was very helpful in the store, too.
My hair was actually three toned. The top inch or more was my original color with threads of gray. Then everything below that was the dye job that I had in August that was much lighter. The lady in the store and my friend both said the color that I picked matched my top part which is what I want so as the color fades or grows out, it won't be as noticeable.
Dh has more gray than I do. He looked over my head and told me to go pick out a color and do his hair this weekend. He thinks I did a better job than the beautician who did it in August did. And closer to my own color, etc. I did get the gray around my temples better. I did them first and repeated it before I was finished just like you said. But I still look at it and think it's too dark. Next time I'll probably do a little higher number. Or maybe not after I get used to this. I'll wait and see as it grows out and fades what it looks like.
But, Holly, I can't thank you enough for all of the advice. Without it I would never have had the courage to tackle coloring my own hair. And I would not have known what to do with that product either. Thank you, thank you, thank you.
One more question regarding the pink streaks in dd's hair. I will not do it now. Besides she goes to a private Christian school and it's not allowed even if I would let her. But I think it's good to allow some indulgences like this to blow off steam now than have it all bottled up by the time they are teens and it blow up in worse ways. So after school is out for the summer, I thought I might do some pink strips. But we spend A LOT of time in the pool in the summer. And if I did it, I want it gone completely by the time school starts in August. Do you think this is even a good idea for a 6 yo for the hair itself? What about all the chlorine in the pool? Will we wind up with some weird color? I thought about just buying that pink hair spray? But I have a hard time spraying it so it doesn't look clownish.
Hol--btw, dd's hair is dish water blonde (I don't like that phrase) to a light brunette.
You are most welcome, Debbie. I'm so glad that it worked out so well. I LOVE sharing my knowledge with others. I hate how hairdressers guard all of their information. I know that they want you to go to them, but not everyone can afford to do that, and as you found out, sometimes you can do it better than some of the "professionals".
As far as the pink streaks , I'll have to research that one. You can easily pull it through a cap, pulling VERY thin pieces so that the look will be very subtle. However, I will have to research and find out what product to use. The fact that you spend a lot of time in the pool kind of makes colouring not such a good idea. Chlorine builds up on the hair (because it is a metal), not to mention that it IS bleach, and definitely affects hair colour. Even yourself...if you are going to keep colouring your hair, you should probably wear a bathing cap.
It won't HURT her hair to colour it because you will be using a demi-permanent, if you want it out by the time school starts, but the chlorine definitely poses a problem.
Yeah, the pink hairspray is kind of "loud". LOL! I assume that you would want a pastel pink. Since her hair is so light, you could do it really subtlely, but again, the chlorine creates a problem. And, since the school doesn't allow it, you have a very short window of time for her to enjoy her streaks. Let me check on it.
If you do hubby's hair, make sure you get his temples first, too. Men's hair is VERY resistant to colour once it goes grey, and the temples particularly.
I was just at a girlfriend's house tonight. She had a perm two weeks ago and the girl used rods that were too large, so now her hair is almost straight again. She wanted me to look at the condition of her hair to see if it could be re-permed. The condition is fine, so I told her that I will do it for her whenever she is ready.
Yes, Sally's sells professional products and a lot of the girls who work there are hairdressers. When I was in school, our instructors told us that we should never shop at Sally's because they cut the throat of hairdressers (by selling to the public). However, if you are a GOOD hairdresser, people will come. There is enough business out there for everyone. I shop at Sally's, as well as some of the "professional only" places.
Way to go, Deb!! I'm proud of you!!
OK. Got another question. In reference to the comment about men with graying hair is resistant to the color. I want to use the demi-permanent just in case it freaks him out. I'm really surprised that he is up for this. But if his hair is going to be really resistant to it, should I use something else?
His specs are: his natural/original hair is about the same color as my natural color. He says he wants what I bought but a couple of shades lighter maybe 6 ot 7. His hair is very thick and sraight although when it was longer, it got curly as it got longer. A strand of hair is thick and coarse where mine is thin and fine. Do I need to get something different for dh to color his hair?
You gave me an idea about dd's hair. I think I'll make a cap of sorts with holes in it. Then pull some hair thru each hole and spray those pieces of hair with the pink hair spray. She will be thrilled. I won't have to worry about the pool or it being gone by the time school starts. Since the hair will be pulled thru holes, it won't get all over her hair just the pieces. I think it will look better than just trying to straight spray strands. That always looks cheap. I am not really too crazy about dying her beautiful hair anyway.
You are great Holly.
Thanks again.
Okay...first question. You can use the same product on DH that you used on yourself, but maybe a level or two lighter, maybe a 6N. Since his hair is thick, you might want to buy TWO bottles, in case his hair soaks it up. Otherwise, process it just like you did yours, but maybe leave it on about five minutes longer. It should be fine. A LOT of men colour their hair. That is the fastest growing market for colour services. Men in business, particularly, feel that they have to look young to compete in the business world. The only time I hate to see hair colour on a man is when it is obvious that he is elderly. He has a wrinkled face, and yet he colours his hair either a fakey looking brown/red, or black. Ugh!! LOL! Like Elvis!! It is SO obvious. Women who are up in years look just as bad in dark hair. Lighter hair softens the wrinkles.
You don't have to MAKE a cap for DD. You can buy a whole package of them in Sally's. They are light blue and white. They tie under the chin to steady it. They are marked with "X"'s, so you know where to make the hole. The closer you punch out the "X"'s, the more streaks you have. It even comes with a fine metal crochet hook to pull the hair through. (Just make sure you brush her hair very thoroughly BEFORE you put the cap on, or it will hurt pulling it through). It isn't more than ten dollars for a whole package of them. They are disposable. Even though you can wash and reuse them, it isn't recommended because the tint/bleach/spray can seep through the holes you made the time before and leave spots on the hair. Overall, it's pretty easy.
Okay it is my turn for a question... I have tried a few times to dye my hair and I have always had the same problem. I always have blonde roots. My hair is blonde but I want to give it more of a red tint. How do you get it to take to the roots really well?
I have dyed my mom's hair for years with redkin products and never had this issue but her hair is dark and gray.
I do mine the say way I have always done hers by sectioning it out in small sections and and applying the dye.
I just don't get it. Why do my roots look so much lighter than the rest?
I think I'm done with my onslaught of questions. I really can't tell you how much I appreciate all of the advice. I'm gonna get his color today and do it some time over the weekend. I just think he is so funny about the color thing. I don't think he'd really paid any attention to how gray he's gotten until he saw his brother a few weeks ago. His db is 15 months younger than him. Dh had not seen him in 2 years b/c dbil is rather flighty and doesn't keep very close family connections. I wouldn't have known who he was if I'd passed him on the street and his hair was really, really gray. Then I colored my hair at the first of the week and I've been told that it makes me look younger. (Woohoo!) I think the 2 things together kind of got to him.
I just can't bring myself to spend $75 every 3 months to color my hair and then dh's on top of that. I think I paid $12 for the color, prompter, bottle, and rattail brush to apply it. I had some unused gloves and I used a Wal-mart plastic bag to put over my head. I can do that every few months.
And like you said, if a beautician is good people will pay the price no matter what. I'm not going back to that particular stylist anyway. She is not very friendly and I haven't been all that pleased with my cuts and after dying my own hair, I like what I did better than what she did. There are lots of people that don't want to fool with it. But at this point in my life, working part-time, I'd rather do it myself. I really love how it feels. And it gave me such a feeling of accomplishment to do something I was so afraid to do and it came out nice (just darker than I wanted but that is a learning curve).
And dd is excited about the sprayed pink streaks. I think I'll get the caps and pink spray while I'm getting dh's color. We can do it Saturday morning and wash it out that night for church.
But, again, thank you. You are so sweet. I wish that there was something I could do for you.
Tara, what you have is a case of "hot roots". First of all, the hair at the scalp is "virgin" because it has no artificial colour on it. Second of all, it processes quicker because it is closest to the head so the heat processes it quicker than on the ends.
You can try three different things. You can try JUST processing the roots (regrowth) and not the rest of the hair because there is already a build up of colour on the rest of the hair so it will be darker. If that doesn't work, then do the regrowth last (and the older hair first...a little more difficult), so they will process at the same rate. The third thing is that you do just the regrowth, then wash and dry as usual, and then the next day colour your hair again, doing all of the hair at the the same time. That will put a 'double' treatment on the roots.
Debbie, bless your heart. You don't have to do anything for me. I'm just happy to help.
When you go to Sally's, there is also a clear plastic "shower cap" type plastic cap, with elastic all around, so that you don't have to wear a Walmart bag on your head. ROFL! I wish I could have seen that! LOL! Again you can buy a whole package of the caps for about $2.00. You can wash and reuse them or throw them away, but they will last you a long time.They are called processing caps. You can use them for processing perms, too.
My friend that does her own color jobs told me to use the Wal-mart bags b/c that is what she does. I saw the bonnets that you are talking about. But it was just me at home by myself when I did it. I didn't think about how funny it must have looked.
And I like to help people, too. Most of my friends don't sew, so they do things for me and I do their sewing. So we help each other out that way. I'm not a great seamstress, but I've made a bunch of kids nap mat covers, and 50's poodle skirts and angel costumes and such. Nothing fancy. But it feels blessed to be helped by friends and it's blessing to me to get to help out where they need it.
Take care and thanks again.
Deb, I know what you mean. That's the kind of thing that made America strong (helping each other). I live in a farming community and we still have people who barter services. It saves everybody a lot of money.
I sew, too, and I am surprised at the number of woman who don't. I think that we were urging you, a year or so ago, to make a business out of your nap mat covers. Wasn't it you?
How did hubby's hair come out? He was probably afraid that you would look younger than him. LOL!
After I found all kinds of websites for those nap mat covers, I dropped it. I sew for myself and help out my friends. I'll make costumes for some things. I enjoy.
And I haven't gotten to do hubby's hair yet. Thursday we got some severe weather here. And just as I was getting ready to go out, dd's teacher called and said they were sending the kids home. So I picked her up and we stayed home. Then my uncle died and I had to go be with my mom. So I have neither had time to pick it up or do it. But I'll get to it this week.
Take care.
So sorry about your uncle. How old was he?
Holly--he was 76 and has been in very poor health for about 3 years and in a nursing home. My mom is the oldest in the family and he was next. Everybody expected her to freak and go ballistic. So they wanted me to go tell her. Yay me! NOT. But she did well.
But onto other things. I DID DH"S HAIR TONIGHT! I finally got to go get the stuff today and told him to tell me when he wanted to do it. He said "TONIHGT". I only got a 5. The 6 just looked too much lighter than his natural color and he just wanted the gray covered like me. He was aggravating about it though. He kept wanting to hurry it all up and skip steps. Like just squish the bottle over his head and mush it around instead of doing parts and paying close attention around the temples and hairline and brush it out. And not rinsing the stuff out, just getting in the shower and shampooing. And he questioned everything I did for which I did not know thorough answers. I finally told him to hush. I didn't necessarily know WHY I did each step, I just know that you said to do each thing, I did on mine and it turned out well. If you want me to do it, HUSH! He said "yes, maam" and finally hushed. We can't see any gray. It looks a tad too dark, but it will be okay.
Oh, btw, I did buy some of those processing bonnets so dh didn't have to sit around the house with a Wal-mart bag on his head. I also got that cap for dd and the bold pink hairspray. She is so excited.
My hair has toned down a bit and looks more like my natural color now. I have to say that I am pleased with it.
Thanks again.
Deb - I'm glad that it turned out well. Hubby's hair will lighten up, too. Men are a pain! Tell him that there is a price to pay if he wants to be beautiful! LOL!
Let me know how little DD's hair comes out. It will wash right out, too, so she'll have fun with it.
My Mom wasn't a hairdresser, but she used to cut my Dad's hair. He thought that he was being funny by saying things like, "Is that my EAR on the floor?" Poor Mom! LOL!
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