School situation - sexual harrassment of one student to another - need advice
Moms View Message Board: General Discussion: Archive January 2007:
School situation - sexual harrassment of one student to another - need advice
My daughter filed charges along with another girl against a male student of the same age for sexual harrassment. I got a call from the VP and he read me her statement. This kid apparently has been grinding up against her touching her rearend (Not accidentally) making nasty statements, and just intimidating her and the other girl and other students as well. She did not tell me this was going on. It is not the kind of thing she would tell me unfortunately, she is very withdrawn when it comes to things like that; I sometimes have to pull things out of her that aren't even this serious. It is just how she is. (It drives me crazy but she knows I am here for her so please don't think I am a bad mom) I'm glad she told a responsible teacher and that the teacher did not brush it off. So, does anyone know what can/should be done. DH says that as long as it stops, he thinks we should let the school handle it. I think otherwise. In her report she mentioned that he grinds up against boys too. I think he needs counseling. I have so many questions that I can't even think. BTW, he never grabbed her chest or anything, but that still doesn't mean he wasn't well on his way to doing just that.
The VP let me talk to dd on the phone and I told her that we were proud of her and that we were on her side. I think we should at least make an appearance at school.
I think that you need to set up an appointment with the school counselor & your dd. Talk with her & see what she wants to see happen, don't just drop it because the school is handling. In the long run she could see that you you not being on her side or protecting her. This is coming from a person that was molested as a child.
I would talk to her about at least trying to get some sort of restraining order against the boy. I also would want to see that a court forces some kind of counseling on him, my concern would be where did he learn that this behavior is okay.
Sometimes the schools drop the ball on these things if parents don't push the issue.
I am so sorry that your dd has to deal with this, but what a great job you did in teaching her to go to an adult when something like this happens.
I agree with Emily. I think it is very important for your daughter to know (a) you believe her, (b), you support her, and (c), as you already told her, she did the right thing. And wait until it is all over before you say anything about wishing she had told you about it.
And I also agree with Emily that unless you and the parents of the other complaining girl keep on this matter, the school is more likely to let it die a quiet death. Especially if the boy's parents get defensive and protective of him. The school needs to know that your dd's parents are backing her up and expect some action that will prevent this boy from victimizing her again.
I'm really glad for your dd's sake that her friend also complained, so that there is a witness and she is not alone in this situation. Unfortunately, sometimes the victim is re-victimized by unthinking people who either make little of the situation and tell her she is making a mountain out of a molehill, or ostracize her because she spoke up and broke the unwritten rule by bringing the system into it. She will need your loving support, and I'm glad that you are giving it to her.
Oh yeah, I forgot to mention that the VP mentioned to my daughter that that was probably just the way the boy got attention. I wanted to scream! I am thinking about writing a letter. !. Do you think I should write the letter and 2. Can you give me some pointers as to what to write? Any advice is much appreciated.
I think that if the VP made a comment to your dd like that then nothing is going to be done as far as the school is concerned. I really feel like a letter to the school is not going to do much if they are already taking that kind of stand. I personally would request a meeting with the Principal &VP & ask then point blank what they intend to do about it. What do they intend to do to make sure your dd will be safe on school property. If you do not get the answers that you like I would go to either the police, CPS and/or the school board.
Schools are worthless in these types of situations. The only way you might see the boy forced into counseling is if you go to the police and file a complaint against this boy. These actions may constitute more than just sexual harassment. You may actually be dealing with criminal sexual conduct, at least in the 4th degree.
Ditto,Emily.
Ditto, ditto Emily!
Ame
I agree with Emily. It may well be the way the boy gets attention, but the school and parents need to do something so that he doesn't get attention by victimizing other people. It is not only sexual harassment, it is a form of bullying, and neither should be tolerated under any circumstances. And if the VP is making those kinds of noises, it does sound like the school wants to make it go away, and is trivializing what has happened to your dd and the other girl.
Have you talked to the teacher who helped your daughter? That would be a good starting point, because if that teacher felt it was important enough to report and helped your daughter, you should acknowledge her help AND, she may have some insights on the situation and some helpful advice on how you should handle it with the school authorities.
I also think if it were me I'd call some place like Women Against Abuse, as a starting point, and tell them you are looking for some organization or group that will help your daughter where she has been a victim of sexual harassment in school and the school is attempting to trivialize her experience and make it go away - that you would like to find someone who will go with you to the school to meet with the principal and VP and make sure they intend to take appropriate action both to make the boy stop and to support your dd in her right to feel safe in school from any kind of unwanted touching or behavior (someone who will do this at no cost, of course). It may take several phone calls, as one agency will point you to another, who can point you to another, until you find the right place, but I will bet there are programs/people out there who can find someone authoritative and experienced who will go with you to the school and make sure the school authorities take this matter seriously. If you want to email me with your city/state, I would be happy to do a bit of digging to see if I can find you some resources. I am at klipvm at rcn dot com.
One of the factors that will be important in this is the ages/grades of the children ... that is, are you talking about 8 year olds, 12 year olds, or what? If you are talking about elementary age children, one thing to consider is that this boy may in fact be a victim or witness of sexual abuse and is acting out what he has experienced or seen, in which case some kind of investigation and intervention is definitely called for. But whatever the boy's reasons, there is no reason for your daughter or any other kid to be a victim of this boy's acting out, and the school needs to have a definite plan to make sure it does not happen again and that your daughter is not made to feel, in any way, that she was wrong for feeling violated or wrong for making the report - which could well be one result of the way the VP is handling it.
I will never forget being grabbed in high school and not doing anything about it. It shocks you and you feel so violated. Plus, if the guy is bigger, you don't want to physically fight back.
I would call the principal, VP, and a counselor and have a meeting. I would request that this kid gets counseling or else you'll file a report with the police and school board. Follow up with proof of his attendance at counseling. The school counselor might have some suggestions.
Even if he's a teenager, I think there's something seriously wrong with his upbringing. You might even "save" this kid from someone who is molesting HIM.
I guess what gets me is that no one at the school will likely take this seriously unless you pull out the big guns. I don't mean threaten to go to the police, but actually DO go to the police and let the detective do the leg work, like talking to the teacher who helped your dd and to other victims, etc.
I have no faith whatsoever in school officials, especially public school officials, to take this head on. I wouldn't want to waste precious time or energy trying (not to mention the frustration.) They don't have the cahunas to take any responsibility for this whatsoever as the controversy would hurt their image and thus their enrollment. If you rely on the school administrators to "handle" this, your dd will still have to face this boy in the halls and maybe in class knowing that nothing is being done about him, and that can be just as hurtful and frustrating to her as what he did to her. She would probably come to think that it won't do any good to report anything since nothing will get done about it anyway.
This is your battle to fight outside of the school. What happened to your dd is assault and as her parents it is your place to file charges, not the school's. It's time to be the Mother Bear and go on attack.
Besides, if this boy is troubled and needs help, the only way to force him into counseling is to turn him in to the authorities and if/when he is convicted, he will most likely be sentenced to the appropriate kind of counseling. But leaving it up to the school will not assure that he will get the counseling he needs, especially if the school has to go up against the boy's parents. The boy has gotten away with this behavior for this long, and there is no telling how brave he may get in the future, as you noted. By going the extra mile, you will be protecting some unknown child or children from likely future assaults.
It would be helpful to know the age of the boy. You may then have a better idea of whether or not the case would be handled in juvenile court or adult court.
In Michigan, this would be considered fourth degree criminal sexual conduct, meaning that there was sexual contact by force or surprise. The only thing I am not sure about is whether or not it matters that contact was outside her clothing. Legal definitions, Michigan
I don't think that "sexual harassment" applies here, since this boy is not in a position of authority over your dd. Definition of sexual harassment, at the bottom of the page
But as Ginny suggested, do get some help for your dd, someone to talk to, since she isn't comfortable talking to you about such a sensitive issue. You can work with the counselor at a women's center or at a county assessment center to find out how this is impacting her. This, together with reporting this to the police, will show your dd that your really are taking this seriously, and that she can trust you in the future.
(((((((((((((((HUGS))))))))))))))))
and best of luck to you.
I don't agree that this is not sexual harassment, Lisa. It falls under the "hostile environment" definition - where conduct in the workplace/school environment interferes with one's right to go about one's job or be in school because of being subjected to unwanted conduct. Sexual harassment in the workplace includes persons on the same level. What makes it a legal matter, in the workplace, is whether an employer takes appropriate steps to stop co-worker sexual harassment. Yes, one of the definitions is someone in authority using their power to sexually harass someone else, but same-level persons can be subject to sexual harassment and then it is up the persons in authority to take appropriate steps. A lot of colleges have postings on their websites about students' rights to be free from sexual harassment by other students, and that is just what this is.
While I hadn't actually suggested that you find someone for your daughter to talk to, Lisa is right - that is a very good idea. She needs to feel affirmed in her right to protest this kind of behavior. I am really concerned about how she will feel because of the VP's comments.
I would still talk to the teacher who helped your daughter. Maybe she can give you some sense of what the school is likely to do. I agree with Lisa - your daughter and the other girl should not be forced to see this boy in the halls and in classes. And, given that they've made a complaint against him, and I am sure he will learn of the complaint, heaven knows what he was told about who made the complaint or he is saying to other students, or what he might do in a confrontation with the girls.
I don't know that I would take it to the police at this point - I think not. But, I would insist on the meeting with the Principal, VP and a counselor, and pin them down as to exactly what they are going to do and how they are going to protect your daughter and the other girl from having to be in contact with this boy - and remind them that unwanted sexual contact is indeed assault, and that you have the option of taking it to the police. The last thing the school wants is to have the police involved in any way, and just the mention of that may force them to get off their butts and do something. Minimally, I suggest that the boy should be moved to another school and that his parents should be strongly, strongly urged to get him into counseling. You also want some firm assurances from the school that the girls' privacy will be respected, and that they will not provide any information that might enable the boy's parents to try to contact you or the other girl's parents.
(I remember reading of more than one lawsuit where parents sued a school because a child was sexually harassed, it was reported, and the school did nothing to protect the person who was being harassed. It is not only your daughter's civil right to go to school, she is required by law to go to school, and the school should take all necessary steps to make certain she can do so without unwanted sexual attention or contact.)
I agree that you have to be pro-active on this (and disagree with your dh) - both because you want your daughter to know that you are supporting her, and because I (like others above) doubt very much that the school will do anything about it unless they are prodded pretty sharply.
Here, in fact, is a Supreme Court decision in 1999 (bless Google), in which a boy kept rubbing up against a girl, the girl and her parents complained, nothing was done, and the parents sued. Here is a link to the article: Supreme Court article
You could remind the Principal of this ruling.
Ginny, I see what you are saying about the sexual harassment. I didn't think of it that way. But the criminal charge, at least in my mind, trumps sexual harassment, unless he could be charged with both.
I can see giving the school a chance to deal with it, but I seriously believe that it is a criminal act against the girls and the parents are responsible for bringing this to the authorities.
I think that anon gets the point that we are all making, that this is way too important to let it take its course and do nothing.
Absolutely, Lisa - it is far too important, particularly in terms of the daughter's self-esteem and feelings of self-worth, and her trust in her parents to "be there" for her, to let it take its course. Doing nothing will tell her that the incident - and her feelings - are not all that important.
Anon, if you want any chance that your daughter will come to you in the future with problems, I think you really need to act on this. But, if your daughter is in 5th grade or older, I would sit down with her and talk about options, about what you might do, and make sure she is on board. If she is that age or older, she is old enough to have some say in something that affects her life. She does need to understand that doing nothing - especially now that she has taken the step of making the complaint - will only tell the school and this boy that her feelings of violation are not important enough to do anything, and I don't think she believes that or she wouldn't have made the complaint.
Again, I strongly suggest you talk first with the helpful teacher, who can (a) give you some insight on the school administration and their likely reactions (b) maybe tell you if she has had concerns about this boy's behavior before your dd's complaint, and (c) given that your daughter trusted her, maybe help you work out how to communicate with your daughter about how you should handle this. It might even be a good idea for you and she and dd to sit down together to talk, since dd already has some trust in this teacher.
I cannot express how thankful I am that I can come here and find such wonderful support. Thank you all. More kids have come forward so I know something will be done, and I will stay up on it. Thank you.
A boy did almost the exact same thing to me in 6th grade PE, plus he and his friend said some nasty sexual things. My female PE teacher said, "boys will be boys" and ignored it. My classroom teacher, however, supported me and we reported it to the principal. Unfortunately, the principal's son was the friend involved, and nothing happened to either of them. It was frustrating for me to spend the rest of the year avoiding these boys for something of which I was innocent! They loved to smirk at me when they saw me, but fortunately never overtly harrassed me after that.
I wish that my parents would have reported it to authorities outside the school. Even if nothing came of it, at least they wouldn't be smug and superior and feel that they had this power over nice girls.
Best of luck, anon, and please keep us posted!
How great for your daughter to know that her courage in coming forth has encouraged other kids to also complain. So often it takes one or two courageous people to speak out before others will join in, and right now she is a leader in doing the right thing. You are, I am sure, very proud of her courage - don't make any mistake, it took a lot of courage to first talk to the teacher about another student, and then to make an official complaint. The reaction from her peers for breaking the non-tattling code could have been severe and heart-breaking. It took a lot of guts, and a strong sense of doing what is right - both of which have probably been modeled for her by her parents and other family members.
Thank you Ginny.
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