I am at a lose as to what to try next. My son is 8 and he will not listen to me at all. He can be a real smart a@@ sometimes. He has a loft bed and has been told so many times it is not a jungle gym do not hang on the bottom do not swing on it nothing. Well last night I was going by his room and he was hanging on it I told him do not do that it is a bed not a toy and I told him if I have to tell you again you will go to bed for the night. It was 6:45pm. 20 minutes later I walked by his door is closed but can still see through and he is swinging from the bottom bar just swinging. I open the door and he looks at me like nothing is wrong. I simply said turn off the TV and go to bed he says why so I told him you ar doing waht I told you not to. He said you never told me I couldn't swing from it just don't hang from it. I got so mad I was livid. I told him I have told you so many times it is only for sleeping not playing on he starts crying (he can make himself cry) and tells me we hate him and love his other sibling and he never does anything right and we like to punish him. I told him he was wrong we do love you but we are tired of telling you the same things over and over again all of the time. I take TV away, I take toys away, I send him to bed early. He@@ I even yell. I have spanked. Nothing I do works.

DH on the other hand can just tell him stop now go to bed and be quiet and that is it he goes. And if that doesn't work he has a plastic sppon that he gets 1 whomp on the butt it hurts and tha stops him.

What can I do to make him listen. I have sat him down and talked to him and nothing seems to work. He just refused to listen to me. He talks back to everything I say but never to DH.

I know I am rambling but I am lost as to what to try next.

I am waiting for a few different Love & Logic books to come into our library they had to request them from a different library. So other suggestions would be great.

By Anonymous on Monday, September 11, 2006 - 10:43 am:

If you find any answers I would love to hear them I have a 9 year old DD who does the same exact types of things. I hear "You are the meanest Mom on earth" at least once a day and most of the time it is because I told her to stop yelling at me or she was going to have no TV for the night. She yells at me constantly and argues all the time but would never do anything like that to her father (although we don't live together). I have gone as far as to take all her toys and everything but her bed and clothes out of her room and that did absolutely no good either.

I know I am not being any help, but I thought I would let you know that you are not alone.

((((Anonymous))))

Good Luck!

By Emily7 on Monday, September 11, 2006 - 11:23 am:

Throw his matteress on the floor & take the bed down. Don't keep repeating yourself. When you see he is about to make a bad choice tell him to stop, list what the good choice is & what the bad choice is. Also tell him what the consequence will be if he makes the wrong choice. Follow through with the punishment for the wrong choice & tell him how proud you are for the good choices & give him some kind of reward system.
This is what I do for my kids, it was recomended by a friend who is a teacher, it is the system they use in school.

By Ginny~moderator on Monday, September 11, 2006 - 11:36 am:

I agree with Emily for first Anon.

My kids never had a chance to call me a mean mother. When one of them said "Why" as in, why can't I, why do I have to, why don't you make him do it", etc., my response was "because I'm a mean mother". Their choices were then limited - they could agree with me, or tell me that no, I'm not a mean mother.

By Mommmie on Monday, September 11, 2006 - 11:43 am:

I would take the loft bed out, for sure, and make sure he has outlets for gross motor movement in a more appropriate spot, like the backyard, on a trampoline, swing, bike, pool. It's got to be very tempting for him to have such a cool bed in his room and he not to be able to play on it the way he wants to.

How is his behavior at school?

By Anonymous on Monday, September 11, 2006 - 11:49 am:

He is ADD/ADHD but so far this year is doing rather well. He has a man teacher this year and seems to be doing well. I honestly don't think we are parenting him correctly or having enough quality time with him. We seem to be never ending with things to do that cannot get cancelled. He does have fall sports that he is in but outside of that we both work and have another younger child and house stuff and I am just totally exhausted most of the time. He is smart but I am just wondering if we are just doing things totally wrong for him. I feel like a bad parent all the way around.

By Cat on Monday, September 11, 2006 - 12:02 pm:

My gosh, if you're a bad parent what's that make me??? You're NOT a bad parent! Bad parents don't ask for help, and you are. I do agree that if the loft bed is such a problem it might be best to get rid of it. What I always tell my kids when they say "You don't care about me" is Honey, if I didn't care I wouldn't care what you're doing, who you're with or if you had food, clothes and a place to live. I do care about those things because I DO care about you. Whether they think they like it or not, kids (especially as young as 8yo) need rules and consistancy and actually do so much better when they have those things! Do you give in more than your dh? Do you set reasonable consequences, warn him about them and then follow through? Saying something like "You're going to be grounded until you're 30!" isn't reasonable. Saying, "If you continue doing that, you will be grounded for the night" and then following through every single time will get the point across much better. My dh is terrible about things he threatens. He'll say, "I'm going to throw your bike in the trash" instead of "You're going to be grounded from riding your bike". Being consistant isn't always easy--trust me, I know! But if kids (like my Robin!) think that they'll win even once out of 100 times they'll play those odds! It's like slots--eventually you will win something. Another thought--and it's just a thought. Do you pick your battles? I learned a long time ago to let the little things slide. Choose what's really important, especially to begin with. Then when the most important behaviors are in line you can work on the smaller things. Check out this book. It's called The Explosive Child by Ross Green. I know it's hard to find time to read, but it's got some really good stuff in it. Good luck, hugs and vent away any time.

By Tink on Monday, September 11, 2006 - 01:10 pm:

I think you've gotten some great advice from everyone here. I think the hardest part of getting a child to obey is delivering consequences each time they disobey. If he knows he's not supposed to play on his bed, I wouldn't have even given him a warning the first time you caught him. He would have been given a consequence immediately. Would it help if you sat down with him, spelled out the major rules of the house so that he can't say he doesn't know that he's not allowed to do something and then list the consequences you'll enforce if he doesn't follow them? Explain to him that you want him to be a good boy and that part of being good is to be respectful of you and your dh and that you're going to do something new to help him learn to be respectful. If you break these rules once, you'll be grounded from TV, video games and computer time for 24 hours. If you break it again or argue about your first punishment, you'll be grounded for 3 days and you'll spend that time helping me around the house. If you break a rule three times, you are grounded for a week and will give up the right to _______ (some fun family outing or something he's been looking forward to).

We require first time obedience from our kids. I don't play around about respecting us as parents and the consequences for not obeying get exponentially worse. Make sure that you are heaping on the praise when you notice that he hasn't swung on the rungs of the bed for the whole day (or whatever time period is appropriate) or when you notice that he's obeyed when you ask him to do something. Give him lots of time to run around outside, do some physical work out in the yard and remind him of the rules if you see him in a tempting situation. {{{Anon}}} You certainly aren't a bad mom. Every one of us has had times when nothing we try seems to works and we're ready to tear our hair out. Any day now, he's going to figure out a brand new way to drive you crazy!

By Mommmie on Monday, September 11, 2006 - 01:14 pm:

You are not a bad parent. Perhaps some adjustments need to be made and that's normal. My son is ADHD, too, and he has a man teacher this year which has been very cool for him. I know what you mean about that.

Do whatever you need to do to get your energy level up, get a handle on any depression you might have, pace yourself on your outside obligations, get dad into the effort, simplify your house, eat right, get enough sleep, do these things to take care of you and then jump into the Love and Logic books which are great.

Keep us posted as to how things are going.

By Cocoabutter on Wednesday, September 13, 2006 - 01:52 am:

Ginny, I love your approach! I have said that to my son when he says, "You're mean" I say "That's my job!"

Anon, is there any way you can get your dh to back you up? I just posted over on the debate board about spanking. I haven't spanked my son in years (not that it would do any good) because dh has reinforced my authority to our son. He is 9 now, and all his dad has to say is, "Do what your mother tells you" and it's no longer an issue. He has sat him down and talked to him and said, "When I am not here, you do what your mother tells you without arguing. If you don't and she tells me, you're going to have to deal with me."

Another thing we have is a chore list. At 8 years old, your son can begin to accept some responsibility around the house. Besides, kids like to feel useful. We keep an account sheet that I made up in a word processor that looks just like your checkbook register to keep track of how much he has earned and how much he has spent.

His chores consist mostly of laundry and trash, picking up his room, and helping out with dishes. I don’t actually have him wash the dishes yet, but he helps to set and clear the table and other stuff.

He gets paid (or gets to spend the money in his account) every 2 weeks when dh gets paid. I am hoping that will be useful for 3 things: 1) Trying to get him out of the pattern of instant gratification, 2) getting him to understand that in real life when you have a job, your employer keeps track of how much money you have earned and then you have to wait for a week or two to get paid, and 3) you can‘t spend the money if you don‘t have it. (Well, you can with credit, but you can also get into a lot of trouble doing that.)

He occasionally has tried to negotiate his wages. He once asked to get $5 for cleaning up his room. But I told him that in real life, you don’t just go up to your boss and say, “I think I should get paid x amount of dollars” and expect to be taken seriously. We have unions to negotiate wages. Otherwise, your boss is the one who decides what you get paid. Not you.

I pay him for each individual duty he performs, which I am hoping will get him to see a direct relationship between the amount of effort that he puts forth and his compensation.

His job description for laundry includes:

Lugging it to the basement
Sorting out the clothes
Putting them in the washer
Putting them in the dryer
Getting them out of the dryer and bringing them upstairs
Putting away his own clothes

Only after these steps are completed do I consider the job done, and he gets $1 per load. We can generate on average a load a day, so in 2 weeks’ time, he can earn around $10-$15 just doing that. He got mad one time cuz he didn’t want to do the laundry, but hey, we were out of clean underwear, so I did the laundry myself, and he said I should be paying him for it. He felt that I was stealing his work away from him. I said to him that I wasn’t going to pay him for work he didn’t do, and if I need clean underwear and he isn’t going to do it, then by golly I will.

I give him 50 cents to take out a bag of trash and 50 cents for hauling it to the curb every Tuesday night for trash pickup Wednesday morning.

Depending on how much he helps in the kitchen, I give him 50 cents to $1 each time.

I pay him $2 for picking up dog poop in the backyard and I give him the money from the sale of anything of his that sells on ebay after the buyer has paid for it. As far as cleaning him room, he takes good care of his video games, and his friends tend to get out his toys more than he does, but I expect that his clothes will be picked up off the floor and dishes will be cleaned out of his room.

Once I rewarded him with $1 for being patient during an especially long wait at Meijer. One of their former cashiers had a newborn baby who was crying cuz she was hungry and she was trying to unload her groceries onto the belt and give the baby a bottle at the same time. She was getting flustered so I offered to help. I was thinking I would help her put the groceries up, but she instantly handed me the baby instead. So I spent the next 20 minutes holding the baby while we waited for her to finish paying for her groceries. I fed her, I burped her, she pooped, and she was just starting to go to sleep when I gave her back. *sigh* So ds sat there very patiently, not saying much, not whining or complaining, so I gave him a dollar on his account sheet.

I also add the $1 on his account that he gets for losing a tooth, which the dentist said he is doing at a faster than normal rate. He lost 2 in June alone.

If you can teach him responsibility then maybe that will go a long way towards helping him control his behavior.

One more very important thing- kids learn by example, so you losing your temper with him and yelling doesn't bode well for you getting any respect out of him. You need to control yourself just as you expect him to control himself. If he sees that it's okay for you to yell at him, then he's going to think it's okay for him to yell at you.

Best of luck and (((HUGS)))

By Hol on Wednesday, September 13, 2006 - 02:14 am:

He seems to have a problem respecting orders from a woman. He listens to his Dad and his teacher, but not to you. It seems to me that your DH could be very helpful in teaching him respect for women, ESPECIALLY you. HE should make it clear to him that when you speak, he had BETTER listen or there will be major consequences, then make sure you follow through.

I agree...get rid of the bed. He has been told. If he cannot accept proper behaviour with it, it goes. And, boy, is he trying to manipulate you by forcing himself to cry and laying the guilt trip on you about loving his sibling more. I wouldn't buy into that either. I'd say, "If that's what you think, you're entitled to your opinion. However, it still doesn't make it okay to swing on your bed after you were told not to".

I do agree with the others, tho. The bed needs to go rather than trying to "negotiate" with him.

Good luck.