Breaking news in Jonbenet Ramsey case
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Breaking news in Jonbenet Ramsey case
There has been an arrest made in Bangkok in connection with this case. The person has admitted to certain unknown key facts regarding the murder. The person is being transferred to Boulder, CO.
What a shame her mom didn't live to see this day .
http://www.cnn.com/2006/LAW/08/16/ramsey.arrest/index.html
I just read a report that said her mom knew of the suspect about a month before her death.
But absolutely amazing. I don't think they would have an arrest if this suspect were very clearly guilty. WOW!
I am so sad that her mom wasn't alive to see this day come! I truly hope this is the man that did it & that this family will finally see justice!
I saw the headline and thought "NO WAY!!" I didn't even know they were still working on the case!
Wow, that's great!
I think it's great too. I feel bad the mom didn't live long enough to get some closure to all of this. I always felt so bad for the little girls family, the way they were treated and all the finger pointing because of the pageant stuff. Such a sad, sad case.
I hope they can finally oficially "clear" the family of any wrong doing.
Even if the parents didn't murder the child, I still hold them responsible for making their little girl a sex object through those pageants. From what I have read, the Mom knew about this suspect a month before she died. And the Ramseys had given the investigators this man's name early on in the investiagtion, as a suspect. The authorities won't say how the Ramseys knew him, but he had been a school teacher in Georgia.
He was previously arrested on child pornography charges. He has confessed to certain aspects of the murder. One investigator said that there are facts about the murder that were never made public. If he has knowledge of those, then they feel pretty sure that he is the one.
I can't escape the feeling that the parents still knew SOMETHING.
I have been thinking a lot about this today, and I have to agree with you Hol. The little girl had been so dolled up and exploited that she probably really got this pervert's juices flowing.
Why couldn't she just have been allowed to live a normal 6-year-old's life?
I am sooooo sad that Patsy is not alive to witness this. I always thought the parents had something to do with it it a remote kind of way...I won't go into explanation now. I always told my Mom I would feel soooo bad for them if it ever came out that it was someone else because I think they were judged publicly in a horrible way. I do agree with Hol, they exposed their daughter by making her a spectacle. I am surprised Patsy held out so long being sick and being held guilty in the public eye. That must have been hell on earth.
From what I read & heard this morning, Patsy Ramsey had been told by the Boulder police of this lead and that they were closing in, before her death.
I heard the news yesterday afternoon.
Yes I read that the Ramsey's gave his name early on in the investigation ( but there lawyer won't disclose how they knew him).
I felt so sorry for the son what was his name Burk, i think. To be he age that he was and to be taken in and questioned for hours about your sister's death.
Yes I too do feel sorry that her mother isn't alive to see this day , but she was aware of the suspect. Yes hopefully the dad and son can move on, be cleared and start to live a normal life one without suspection. I can't imagine how she dealt with it, trying to raise her son, her illness, and just being judged and looked at so differently. I can't speak for her , but I guess she found her comfort her will to deal with it in the fact that she knew that she didn't do it and the only other person that it mattered too( her father with whom she is with now) knew.
A new article has said that the suspect has said that JonBenet's death was an accident. He was trying to kidnap her, but things went awry. When asked if he was innocent in her death, he said no.
He also stated that he wanted everyone to know that he loved this little girl so much, WAS IN LOVE WITH HER, she was such a pretty girl,....
Sick. And I also have always hated the way mothers dress their little girls up for these pageants in ways to make them look like sexy young women. With the state of the world today, I think they are just inviting trouble.
Man Says He Drugged, Had Sex With Ramsey
BANGKOK, Thailand -- The American suspect in the killing of JonBenet Ramsey told investigators that he drugged and had sex with the 6-year-old beauty queen before accidentally killing her, a senior Thai police officer said Thursday.
An autopsy on Ramsey said a blood screening showed no drugs or alcohol in her body but said she had vaginal abrasions.
Lt. Gen. Suwat Tumrongsiskul, head of Thailand's immigration police, said by telephone that he was not present for the questioning, which was conducted by U.S. law enforcement officials.
But, according to what the general said he was told of the questioning, the suspect, John Mark Karr, "said he drugged the child." Suwat did not say who briefed him on the questioning.
Karr claimed he had sex with Ramsey, who was still alive, Suwat said. Karr said he then realized he had "accidentally" killed her, according to the general.
A spokesman for the U.S. Embassy said it had no information about Karr's alleged actions or what he said to questioners. U.S. and Colorado law enforcement officials were unavailable for comment.
This just truly breaks my heart.
I don't know if the guy is guilty or not. He looks like a freak though, he could just be doing this for attention or he could truly be the person who did it. I hope they are able to do a dna anaylysis on the evidence to find out for sure one way or the other.
The events of that night were not all released to the public, and since the Boulder DA said that she would not comment on any of the specifics of the case, isn't any media story merely speculation at this point? I have heard 4 different stories so far today. I mean, how can any reporters really know the specifics of what happened based on second-hand information from an investigator who wasn't even present for questioning?
I think this is all sad.
To tell you the truth I was sucked into believing the parents did it also.
However, (and I really don't care for pagentry, just not my thing) it doesn't matter what or where the child is, etc. I agree a parent should whole heartedly protect their child, but child molesters are perverts, munipulative people. They are basically after one thing and will not stop unless they are stopped.
Mr. Karr is the bad person in this case and we should stop blaming the parents who have had enough grief and guilt
I could never imagine having being put in this situation. This is one of the saddest stories I have ever heard.
Awful, awful, awful! I hope they really did find the peron who is guilty. He sounds like he could just be a little crazy and obsessed with the case too. It's even worse that he was teaching!!!!
Mr. Karr is the bad person in this case and we should stop blaming the parents who have had enough grief and guilt
You are right. The past decade has been hell for them.
But I think the point that we are making is that when you put your kid out there on stage for everyone to see, you place them at risk. Pedophiles go to these pageants to get their kicks and circle around their prey.
Perhaps it is different these days in that we as a society are more aware then ever of the perverts and pedophiles. I don't think we even had a sex offender registry in 1996, did we?
I don't know. I am still leaning in the same mindset as Colette and Lisa. I still get a feeling that the parents knew SOMETHING. I think it's possible that this guy IS just a nut who is looking for the publicity. Yes, he is a bad person, in that he is obsessed with child pornography, and that is what led to his arrest, on an unrelated charge. Apparently, he has also been obsessed with the case, based on emails he has sent, over the years, to a person in Georgia, where he used to teach. Something that he communicated to this person made the person go to the police. Just the fact that he said he drugged her, and no drugs were found in her body at autopsy. Then he said that he "accidently" killed her. Her skull was bashed in, and then a rope was tightened around her neck by use of a garot (a handle like object that is used to tighten a rope to deliberately strangle someone). That is an awful lot of premeditated effort for an "accidental" killing.
At the time of the murder, I had read that she was sexually assaulted, as there was blood on her underwear, but there was no semen. They thought that she was raped with an OBJECT, which led them to suspect her brother who was only nine at the time. She did, however, have skin fragments under her fingernails, so there should be a DNA match if it is this guy.
I'm still stuck on the fact that the amount asked for in the ransom note was $118,000.00; the exact amount of John Ramsey's Christmas bonus. Not too many people would have knowledge of that. It's an odd amount,too, and not nearly the amount in dollars that most kidnappers ask as ransom. Plus, as in other gruesome cases of children being kidnapped out of their sleep, like Polly Klas and Elizabeth Smart, the guy got them out of the house as quickly as possible. They didn't stick around to plant notes. And if his intention was to take her as a sexual partner, would he have done it in the house? Wouldn't he have taken her away, and quickly?
I don't know. It will be interesting to see how things play out. I just think that there is going to be much more to the story, and it's possible that it is not, and never will be solved.
I just wish little Jon Benet to rest in peace.
My dh works within the public school system.
People do not realize how easy it is for these types of people to get jobs and not be noticed.
Dh was offered another job within another school system. The school year is beginning. He thought he was losing his other job and this other school system was going to hire him without his criminal history records checked by the state or fbi
This takes 4-6 weeks, what if they did hire a pedophile without checking records?
This is sad on all accounts.
I've never suspected the parents, based on evidence and interviews available to the public. I can't believe people are still bashing them. What is it you keep thinking the parents 'knew', Hol? They gave that guy's name as a suspect in the beginning...wouldn't that imply that they cooperated fully and gave all info they knew??
I don't go for pageants, either, and I do see it as 'dangerous' to doll your girls up like that. But again, it's not dangerous in and of itself...it is dangerous because criminals abound. But the parents weren't the criminals. Did they act recklessly and endanger her life by putting her in pageants? I don't think so. If anything, I think it is more damaging to their emotional well being than anything else.
I agree with what Hol said about him saying he "accidentally" killed her. When i read that, i was wondering how you accidentally kill someone by putting a rope around their neck!? That does not sound like an accident to me.
Of course none of us really know anything about this case. We only know what the media has told us. The only true thing we know is that little Jon Bonet is dead.
I hope she can rest in peace, and i hope her mom can too. And i hope the family can someone get closure one day.
My guess is that by 'accident' he meant he did not go there that night with that intention, but that afterward he got scared or she started fighting or he was terrified of what he'd done and figured if she was left alive he'd be found out, or SOMEthing, and he changed his plans. He could have smashed her skull and strangled her out of intense fear and panic, but again, not gone there that night intending to do that. He could have also started to strangle her to keep her quiet, intending just to scare her and get her to hush. Obviously I am not defending this man, I am just saying I think I can follow what he means by accident. And I could be way off base, too.
I just can't IMAGINE what was going through her mind when she was being molested and then killed. For a 6 year old to experience that just horrifies me to no end.
I hope that, whoever did it, gets punished beyond belief.
Heidi - I think about that, too, how terrifying her last hour on earth must have been.
Kate, it hasn't been released yet, what the connection was between this guy and the parents, but they obviously knew him. And why was he cleared the first time around? I don't think that exonerates the parents just because they gave his name as a suspect. It is logical that they would do anything to deflect attention from them.
I knew I had heard something over the weekend about the authenticity of the rumors surrounding the so-called confessions of Karr. As I said earlier, the interview that Lt. Gen. Suwat Tumrongsiskul gave by phone is only second-hand information as he was not even present for the interview authorities conducted with Karr. How can we really believe what he is saying?
As it turns out, he was feeding us a line of bull, and I have found many other stories, mostly on blogs, pointing and laughing at our media, how they take any smidgeon of information and run with it with no regard to verification of sources, and how we all fall hook line and sinker for it because it's such a juicy story. There are too many loose ends and contradictions, so I am not going to place any confidence in the press releases until the actual trial gets underway, or until the DNA tests come back.
http://9news.com/acm_news.aspx?OSGNAME=KUSA&IKOBJECTID=2211f987-0abe-
421a-0010-130120d12c54&TEMPLATEID=0c76dce6-ac1f-02d8-0047-c589c01ca7bf
(If you copy and paste this link into your browser, keep in mind I had to divide it in half to get it to fit in the page without making it a mile wide  )
Created: 8/18/2006 10:16 AM MST - Updated: 8/18/2006 12:02 PM MST
BANGKOK, Thailand - The chief of the Thai immigration police is backing off earlier comments he made about the murder suspect in the JonBenet Ramsey murder case.
Lt. Gen. Suwat Tumrongsiskul changed some details Friday of the account he had given of what John Mark Karr told investigators. In a telephone interview Thursday with The Associated Press, Suwat quoted Karr as saying he had sexually assaulted the girl and had given her drugs. He also told reporters before a news conference that day Karr had claimed to have picked up JonBenet at her school, though her 1996 death came during the holiday break.
On Friday, Suwat confirmed to the AP his account of the sexual assault. But asked if Karr gave the girl drugs, Suwat said the suspect described the encounter with JonBenet Ramsey as "a blur."
"It may have been drugs, or it may have been something else because (Karr said) it was a blur, blur," Suwat said.
Suwat also said Friday that his statement about the girl being picked from school was based on a documentary he had seen and not the interrogation.
JonBenet's autopsy report found no evidence of drugs, saying her death was caused by strangulation after a beating that gave her a fractured skull. While the report describes vaginal injuries, it makes no conclusions about whether she was raped. Investigators later concluded there was no semen on JonBenet's body.
Karr's ex-wife, Lara Knutson, told reporters she cannot defend him, then insisted he was with her in Alabama that Christmas.
"She cannot think of a Christmas while they were together when he was away from the family on Christmas day or immediately thereafter," said her attorney, Michael Rains, though he added she could not specifically recall Christmas 1996 when JonBenet was murdered.
I think he is a nuut job for sure, but I don't believe he did this. Right now, it is just my gut that tells me this.
For the same reason, my gut tells me the parents are not guilty of anything to do with this case either.
As far as pagent moms and them parading their kids out there and how unsafe it is.... well, as someone else said, it isn't the pagents themselves that are the problem. It is the nut cases that stalk these kids there. So, I don't see how you blame the parents for that one. Sick people stalk kids and kidnap them from the park too! Does that mean if you take your kids to the park your inviting trouble?? Different perverts like different kids. It isn't only pagent kids that are at risk for being stalked, it is all of our kids no matter where they are.
Kate, my dad was a policeman for 30 years. He has hashed this over many times. Why won't the parents say how they knew this man? There is something in that. I am not going to say what my Dad thinks, it would start a debate and pass more judgement. I guess we will see when we see.
Kim - Post it on the debating board. I would LOVE to hear what your Dad thinks, as I have my own theories, too.
There is definitely a connection between Karr and the parents. He lived near them in Georgia for a time.
I heard that Karr knew the Ramsey's because his brother worked with the Ramsey family and he went to their Christmas party. Karr said he got JonBenet's trust at the party and then later molested and killed her.
Heidi - I've heard that, too.
I was just reading a message board about this case, and someone made a comment about how IRONIC it is that this guy has been found AFTER Patsey Ramsey died! If it really was him, why did it take ten years?
Patsy can't be tried now, and IF the Dad was an accessory to murder, his money could surely buy a "fall guy".
To quote this person "Money can buy justice. Just ask OJ".
It has also been reported that reliable witnesses who know him well place him hundreds of miles away from Boulder on the day Jon Benet Ramsey was killed. It has also been reported that his was one of many names the Ramsey family gave to the police as someone they knew, and that he was investigated at some point, but that report was just speculation or reporting "unnamed sources" by the reporters I've read.
No question in my mind the guy is a pedophile - he has been convicted of child pornography. And no question in my mind he is really weird - talking so calmly about this to the press, as he did while in Thailand, is really weird.
But, did he kill the child? I'm waiting until the DNA evidence is in. I'm not going to speculate until then.
I personally think it is wise of the Ramsey family to refrain from public comment of any sort, other than the very brief statements they made right after the arrest, given the media circus for months after Jon Benet's death. And, any comments any member of the family or of the investigative team makes to the press could be used later as "prejudicing potential jurors" by a defense attorney.
Ditto Ginny!
Ginny - As a person who works so closely in the legal profession, I'm sure you'll agree that it was odd that this man was allowed to make such incriminating statements in the press, without legal representation. He started "singing" while he was still in Thailand. I am VERY surprised that the American Consulate didn't provide an attorney to advise him of his rights, being an American citizen. It seems that he WANTS to be prosecuted. He certainly was "living it up" on the flight to the US, sipping champagne, and chatting it up with the officials escorting him back. He is enjoying all of this too much, which just makes me think that he is one of these publicity seekers who thrive on notoriety.
Hol, the Consulate would only provide him with legal advice (maybe) if he asked for legal advice. And Thai laws are probably very different from ours - I'm sure there are no Bill of Rights protections for an accused. I did read today that the Thai official who related to the press what this man allegedly said now says that he didn't hear it - he was only telling what he was told, which is, of course, completely hearsay and probably (imo) not true, or at least embellished to get the media's attention. As for the trip to the U.S., as I understand it from reading the news, he wasn't legally in custody, and the people escorting him didn't want him to get upset and maybe decide to leave the plane before it got to the U.S.
He is, of course, in custody now and did not fight extradition from California to Colorado. And has a lawyer (public defender) who, from what I read, is taking every legal step to protect his legal rights. It is reported that the judge has issued (or is considering issuing) a gag order, that no official involved with the case, including the defendant's attorney, is to say anything to the press under penalty of a contempt citation - which is as it should be, to protect the man's legal rights, to avoid contaminating the potential jury pool, and to prevent the media circus that occurred before.
I understand everyone's curiosity and speculation, but I personally consider this kind of speculation rather pointless, because there is no way we can know what is actually going on. I don't get my news from sources other than the mainstream media, because anyone can say anything on the internet without any kind of backup or proof, and too many people will swallow it. And frankly, I don't believe much the mainstream media says about a case like this because they can't know much except what someone might leak (with who knows what motivation) and mostly can only speculate and guess, and the more spectacular or outrageous the speculation, the more attention that particular reporter or media source gets - which does tend, in my mind, to reduce their reliability. I'm all for the First Amendment and defend it fiercely, but I still reach for the proverbial "grain of salt" when I read about unknown sources or unnamed sources - to me that usually just means rumors and guesses.
One report stated that he was given champagne and good food in the hopes that he would loosen up and make important statements while on the flight.
Ginny- that was my point earlier!
Why bother getting all worked up over hearsay, rumors, and speculations?
You're right, Lisa, and I missed that because I did't read your post entirely.
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