He wants to Leave!! (really long)
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He wants to Leave!! (really long)
I am at a lose as to what to do!! We have 2 kids and have been together for many years. For the last 8-9 months I have been getting really short with my whole house. I yell at my kids and my DH about everything. No one listens to me ever so I just scream. My DH has no money I have it all in the bank and take care of all bills and everything else that has to do with money. For many years he was awful with money his credit is god awful and mine is not so everything we have is in my name only. I run the hsow for financials because I don't want him to blow what we have on crap. I don't trust him with money. He has had it. He said he is tired of be controlled like he is a child and if we cannot fix it he is leaving. He said he will help me keep the house and pay support but he cannot be miserable like he is anymore. He is tired of the yelling and screaming and fighting all of the time. I agree but I know that I don't want to lose him either.
I have another problem. He is a drinker I am not. He does not drink during the week as to not interfear with work but when Friday after work hits he wants to drink. Then if there are any left when he gets up Saturday morning he will finish those off. And yes I said morning. Then he wants more for the rest of the day then if the mood strikes him he wants more for Sunday. He is a binge drinker and I hate it. He has changed a ton since we first got together he went from 7 days a week (30 pack a day) to the weekends but the amounts he puts away is crazy. He might give us a weekend away from the beer every 3-4 weeks but he says I like my beer I work and I have earned it.
He turnes into a jerk most of the time when he is really drunk and says if we (me and the kids) just let him be he will not be a jerk. My problem is the kids could look at him wrong and he turns into a jerk I could ask aquestionwrong and he turns into a jerk. He gets mean and breaks things. He is too rough with our oldest DS and says it is just disipline when in my eyes it is abuse. He was abused growing up I was not. I was hardly ever spanked he was beat. I believe in spanking but to a limit not to the extreme. He says it is not beating. I am scared for my kids when he is drinking. I am OK for him drinking once in a while when he can monderate it and he can when he wants to but generally he doesn't want to. He cannot ever say enough is enough and just quit.
I don't know what to do anymore. He says I need to accept that he likes to drink and that he is not a child or things will never get better. He says if I will quit nagging him so much he will nto feel t he need to just keep dirnking all of the time. He said he feels like a kid who is told no all of the time so why not just do it and face the nagging later. He says no matter waht he does he cannot make me happy so he might as well at least make himself happy.
I am calling my insurance people today to get a referal to counseling for myself and he and I are going to dinner tonight to talk and I am going to ask him to go with me and go alone.
I don't know what to do about the yelling at the kids I am just so tired of them not listening to me it is crazy or getting over the control of the finances or the control of him do you ladies have any advice? I am lost.
Counseling, definitely. If he doesn't go, you should go anyhow.
When your husband accepts that he has a drinking problem, Alcoholics Anonymous, of course. But in the meantime, AlAnon is a very good source of counseling and support for the families of alcholics.
Lots of hugs and sympathy for you. You are taking a good first step.
When he can prove that he is not a "child" and be responsible with money, then maybe he can have some control.
I don't get the idea of "raising" an adult who never chose to be responsible. Think about yourself and your children first. I'm sorry, but that's my feeling.
You're doing the right thing by looking into counseling, and ditto Ginny, YOU go no matter what. You don't deserve to live with an alcoholic that is also like another child. HE has a problem and has to address it or nothing will ever get better.
Lots of hugs to you. I hope it works out. Sometimes it takes a major life change to make someone realize what they need to do (i.e., you and your kids leaving or him leaving). Your kids do not need to be exposed to an alcoholic and you're not setting a good example of marriage and relationships. Your children are being hurt every minute they are with your DH and when you are together (from what it sounds like with all the screaming/yelling). Be the example they need and show them that you refuse to live like this. If he won't seek help for his alcoholism or for his marriage, GET OUT and just do it for yourself.
I don't want to lose him either.
Can I ask you why you don't want to lose him? From what I can read in your post, there isn't a whole lot of positive things your saying about him or your relationship. Is it HIM that you want to hold on to or the security of him?
No matter what you come up with, I agree that you going to couseling is an excellent idea.
I didn't explain some things very well. He doesn't drink at all during the week so he is not the problem then with me screaming at the kids that is my problem. The problem with him being to rough on our oldest DS is not something that happens very often but when it does it reminds me of the stories he tells me from when he was growing up. He has changed when it comes to the money thing I am just really scared to give over any of the adult responsibility to him for fear he will not take it seriously. Even though he tells me all of the time he sees how I stress and he knows it is not a joke anymore and since the kids he knows he cannot treat it as a game like he did pre-kid days.
We have goals for out future to move into a larger home and travel in an RV with our kids camping and doing things of that nature. He also knows those things require saving and he wants us to do that he wants to help me with that.
The drinking is on the weekends and that to me is the bad part of him and all that that intales as I said above.
I do love him and he does love me and our kids. I would never question that I am just lost as to why he loves his alcohol when he knows it helped in his mom and dad dying at younger than normal ages.
I have my first appointment this Thursday alone and we are going to dinner tonight to talk without the kids to see what we are going to do.
I am going to print this out I want him to read it and see what I am thinking instead of getting into afight about it and crying maybe reading my feelings will help some.
I also think counseling is a wonderful idea. I hope you are able to get him to go too.
That's what I was thinking Vicki. He loves his alcohol because he's addicted to it, plain and simple. Addictions override EVERYTHING else that someone loves. He has to get help or nothing will change.
I feel like your first and second posts were totally different. Sorry if I offended. Hope you get things worked out in the best interest of everyone.
I am not offended I am asking for honest help and opinions here. How were my posts different? I have so many things running through my head I cannot see the end right now.
Ditto Deanna and Vicki RE: the addiction. I am speaking from major experience there. Alcoholism is a disease. Addictions/addictive personalities run in families/genes. My X was/is an alcoholic. It was a huge problem in our marriage. I, and he, grew up in alcoholic families. I have 4 kids, 2 are his alone, 2 are mine with him, more than one of those kids has had alcohol/substance abuse issues.
The fact that he does not drink during the week, or even it he drank and did not get drunk during the week, has no bearing on whether or not he's an alcoholic.
All of the information below is taken from THIS website. I hope you DO print this thread out for him to read. Addiction robs people and their families and friends of the lives and relationships they had, or intended to have. I truly hope he (and you) get some help. You obviously need some help in dealing with your family problems/and with the kids. Screaming at kids all the time hurts them emotionally, and as you have found out, it does no good. I understand you are under a lot of stress with your situation, but this is why you need to get help for yourself, no matter what he does. He needs to realize and admit he has a problem, whether he wants to or not, and get help for it. There is no shame in it. This is not 50 or 60 years ago when these type of problems were swept under the carpet. It is so common now in our society. It's also no secret that very often, particularly when someone is raised in an abusive household, or by parents who were alcoholics, that that person tends to (subconsciously) end up doing the same thing. Again, it is nothing to be ashamed of. Help is out there, it's just up to you to accept it. I truly wish you the best of luck.
"Alcoholism is the consumption of, or preoccupation with, alcoholic beverages to the extent that this behavior interferes with the drinker's normal personal, family, social, or work life, and may lead to physical, or mental harm. The resulting chronic use can result in many psychological and physiological disorders. Alcoholism is one of the world's most costly drug use problems; with the exception of nicotine addiction, alcoholism is more costly to most countries than all other drug use problems combined.
The biological mechanism of alcoholism is unknown. While alcohol use is required to trigger alcoholism, the majority of the population can drink alcoholic beverages with no danger of suffering from it. One of several other factors must exist for alcohol use to develop into alcoholism. These factors may include a person's social environment, emotional health and genetic predisposition. An alcoholic can develop several forms of addiction to alcohol simultaneously (psychological, metabolic, and neurochemical) and they all must be treated in order to effectively treat the condition.
Identification of an Alcoholic
Identification of alcoholism may be difficult because there is no detectable physiological difference between a person who drinks a lot and a person who can't control his or her drinking. As a result, identification involves an objective assessment regarding the damage that the consumption of alcohol does to the drinker's life compared to the perceived subjective benefits that the drinker perceives from that consumption. While there are many cases where an alcoholic's life has been significantly and obviously damaged, there are still a large number of borderline cases that can be difficult to classify.
Screening
Several tools may be used to detect the loss of control of alcohol use. The CAGE questionnaire, developed by Dr. John Ewing and named for its four questions, is one such example that may be used to screen patients quickly in a doctor's office.
Two "yes" responses indicate that the respondent should be investigated further.
The questionnaire asks the following questions:
1. Have you ever felt you needed to Cut down on your drinking?
2. Have people Annoyed you by criticizing your drinking?
3. Have you ever felt Guilty about drinking?
4. Have you ever felt you needed a drink first thing in the morning (Eye-opener) to steady your nerves or to get rid of a hangover?
Another screening questionnaire is the Alcohol Use Disorders Identification Test (AUDIT), developed by the World Health Organization.
The Alcohol Dependence Data Questionnaire[5] is a more sensitive diagnostic test than the CAGE test. The Alcohol Dependence Data Questionnaire serves to distinguish a diagnosis of alcohol dependence from one of heavy alcohol use.
The CAGE questionnaire, among others, has been extensively validated for use in identifying alcoholism. Its use has not been validated for diagnosis of other substance use disorders, although somewhat modified versions of the CAGE are frequently implemented for such a purpose.
Diagnosis
In 1992, a joint committee of the National Council on Alcoholism and Drug Dependence and the American Society of Addiction Medicine was formed to establish a definition of alcoholism that could be used in a clinical setting. That committee defined the condition as a "primary, chronic disease with genetic, psychosocial, and environmental factors influencing its development and manifestations. The disease is often progressive and fatal...characterized by impaired control over drinking, preoccupation with the drug alcohol, use of alcohol despite adverse consequences, and distortions in thinking, most notably denial. Each of these symptoms may be continuous or periodic."
DSM diagnosis
The DSM-IV diagnosis of alcohol dependence represents another approach to the definition of alcoholism, one more closely based on specifics than the 1992 committee definition. In part this is to assist in the development of research protocols in which findings can be compared with one another, but the DSM definition is the one currently in general use from a diagnostic standpoint. That definition is: maladaptive alcohol use with clinically significant impairment as manifested by at least three of the following within any one-year period: tolerance; withdrawal; taken in greater amounts or over longer time course than intended; desire or unsuccessful attempts to cut down or control use; great deal of time spent obtaining, using, or recovering from use; social, occupational, or recreational activities given up or reduced; continued use despite knowledge of physical or psychological sequelae.
Long term physical health effects
The long term health effects caused by the consumption of large amounts of alcohol (both by alcoholics and non-alcoholics) may include:
• death from many sources, primarily alcohol toxemia
• pancreatitis, or inflammation of the pancreas (both the acute and chronic form)
• heart disease, including dilated cardiomyopathy
• polyneuropathy, or damage to the nerves leading to poor sensation of pain and impaired mobility
• cirrhosis of the liver, a chronic disease characterized by destruction of liver cells and loss of liver function, and its numerous complications, including bleeding from esophageal varices
• depression, insomnia, anxiety, and suicide
• increased incidence of many types of cancer, including breast cancer, head and neck cancer, esophageal cancer and colorectal cancer
• nutritional deficiency of folic acid, thiamine (vitamin B1) and several others
• Wernicke-Korsakoff syndrome, a neuropsychiatric disorder caused by thiamine deficiency that results from poor nutrition in some alcoholics
• sexual dysfunction
Social effects
The social problems arising from alcoholism can include loss of employment, financial problems, marital conflict and divorce, convictions for crimes such as drunk driving or public disorder, loss of accommodation, and loss of respect from others who may see the problem as self-inflicted and easily avoided. Alcohol dependence affects not only the addicted but can profoundly impact the family members around them. Children of alcohol dependents can be affected even after they are grown; the behaviors commonly exhibited by such children are a topic of research. Adult Children of Alcoholics (ACoA) World Service provides support for such individuals.
A study quantified the cost to the UK of all forms of alcohol misuse as £18.5–20 billion annually (2001 figures).[2]
Alcohol withdrawal
There are several distinct but not mutually exclusive alcohol withdrawal syndromes caused by alcohol withdrawal:
• Tremulousness - "the shakes"
• Activation syndrome - characterized by tremulousness, agitation, rapid heart beat and high blood pressure.
• Seizures - acute grand mal seizures can occur in alcohol withdrawal in patients who have no history of seizure or any structural brain disease.
• Hallucinations - usually visual or tactile in alcoholics
• Delirium tremens - can be severe and often fatal.
Unlike withdrawal from opioids such as heroin, which can be unpleasant but never fatal (Lowinson), alcohol withdrawal can kill (by uncontrolled convulsions or delirium tremens) if it is not properly managed. The pharmacological management of alcohol withdrawal is based on the fact that alcohol, barbiturates, and benzodiazepines have remarkably similar effects on the brain and can be substituted for each other. Since benzodiazepines are the safest of the three classes of drugs, alcohol consumption is terminated and a long-acting benzodiazepine is substituted to block the alcohol withdrawal syndrome. The benzodiazepine dosage is then tapered slowly over a period of days or weeks.
Treatments
Treatments for alcoholism are quite varied in keeping with the multiple perspectives regarding the condition itself. Those approaching the condition as a medical disease recommend differing treatment processes and goals than, for instance, those approaching the condition as one of social choice. Most treatments focus on helping people discontinue their alcohol and sedative intake, then providing life training and/or social support in order to help them resist a return to sedative use. Since alcoholism involves multiple factors which encourage a person to continue drinking (psychological/social, physical, and neurochemical), all of these factors must be addressed in order to successfully prevent a return to active alcohol use.
The most common approach to treatment is detoxification followed by a combination of supportive therapy, attendance at self-help groups, and ongoing development of coping mechanisms. The treatment community for alcoholism typically supports an abstinence-based approach, though some promote the harm-reduction approach generally used for opioid dependence.
The effectiveness of alcoholism treatments vary from good to counterproductive. When considering the effectiveness of treatment options it is important to consider the percentage of those who enter a program, not just those who complete it. Most programs can boast a high cure rate for those who complete it because most people only complete a program if it works for them. It is also important to consider not just the rate of those reaching sobriety but the rate of those relapsing.
Detoxification
An individual who has been regularly drinking high quantities of alcohol will experience potentially dangerous symptoms of withdrawal if the alcohol intake is suddenly stopped. Detoxification (a.k.a. "detox") is the process of tapering alcohol intake off, within a monitored or controlled environment, at a speed that will avoid significant withdrawal symptoms. This can generally be carried out in a two to three day period. Many weeks thereafter, individuals may still suffer from milder withdrawal symptoms; sleep is generally the last function to return to normal.
Detoxification is not a treatment for alcoholism, but is simply a treatment of the physiologic effects of ongoing use of alcohol. It provides an initial path for an alcoholic to stop drinking in the first place. Detoxification without supplemental treatments to help the patient continue abstinence have a very high rate of relapse.
Detoxification often takes place within an inpatient environment, but several programs offer outpatient detoxification.
Group therapy and psychotherapy
After detoxification, various forms of group therapy or psychotherapy can be used to deal with underlying psychological issues leading to alcohol dependence, and also to provide the recovering addict with relapse prevention skills. Aversion therapies may be supported by drugs like Disulfiram, which causes a strong and prompt sensitivity reaction whenever alcohol is consumed. Naltrexone or Acamprosate may improve compliance with abstinence planning by treating the physical aspects of cravings to drink. The standard pharmacopoeia of antidepressants, anxiolytics, and other psychotropic drugs treat underlying mood disorders, neuroses, and psychoses associated with alcoholic symptoms.
In the mid-1930s, the mutual-help group-counseling approach to treatment began and has become very popular. Alcoholics Anonymous is the best-known example of the support group movement. Other groups that provide similar self-help and support without AA's spiritual focus include LifeRing Secular Recovery, Smart Recovery, Women For Sobriety, and Rational Recovery.
Rationing
Some programs attempt to help problem drinkers before they become dependents. These programs focus on harm reduction and reducing alcohol intake as opposed to abstinence-based approaches. Since one of the effects of alcohol is to reduce a person's judgement faculties, each drink makes it more difficult to decide that the next drink is a bad idea. As a result, rationing or other attempts to control use are increasingly ineffective if pathological attachment to the drug develops.
Nonetheless, this form of treatment is initially effective for some people, and it may avoid the physical, financial, and social costs that other treatments result in, particularly in the early phase of recovery. Professional help can be sought for this form of treatment from programs such as Moderation Management.
Medications
Medications for alcoholism are most often used to supplement a person's willpower and encourage abstinence.
Antabuse (disulfiram), for instance, prevents the elimination of a chemical (acetaldehyde) which cause severe discomfort when alcohol is ingested, effectively preventing the alcoholic from drinking in significant amounts while they take the medicine. Heavy drinking while on Antabuse can result in severe illness and death.
Naltrexone has also been used because it helps curb cravings for alcohol while the person is on it. Both Antabuse and Naltrexone used to encourage abstinence, however, have been demonstrated to cause a rebound effect when the user stops taking them.
Naltrexone, nalphamene, and other endorphin antagonists are also used in a process called pharmacological extinction, which is an attempt to reverse the conditioning which results in alcoholism. No rebound effect is demonstrated from pharmacological extinction.
Sodium oxibate, the sodium salt of gamma-hydroxybutyric acid (50 to 100 milligrams per kilogram per day, in 3 or more divided doses) is used in Italy, under the trade name Alcover, both for acute alcohol withdrawal and medium to long term detoxification.
Nutritional therapy
Not a treatment of alcoholism itself, but rather a treatment of the difficulties that can arise after years of heavy alcohol use: Many alcohol dependents have insulin resistance syndrome, a metabolic disorder where the body's difficulty in processing sugars causes an unsteady supply to the blood stream. While the disorder can be treated by a hypoglycemic diet, this can affect behavior and emotions, side-effects often seen among alcohol dependents in treatment. The metabolic aspects of such dependence are often overlooked, resulting in poor treatment outcomes.
Return to normal drinking
It has long been argued that alcoholics cannot learn to drink in moderation. The literature is heavy with research that has demonstrated the long-term failure of programs with such goals; despite this, research by the U.S. National Institute on Alcohol Abuse and Alcoholism (NIAAA) indicates that nearly 18% of such individuals in the US whose dependence began more than one year earlier are now drinking in moderation.[14]
Societal impact
The various health problems associated with long-term alcohol consumption (discussed above) are generally perceived as costing society money due to lost labor-hours, medical costs, and secondary treatment costs, as well as the pain and suffering of the indivuals affected. Additionally, alcohol use is a major contributing factor for head injuries, motor vehicle accidents, violence, and assaults. Heavy alcohol consumption by a pregnant mother can also lead to fetal alcohol syndrome, an incurable and damaging condition.
Just want to add this, if for no other reason, these issues need to be dealt with for the sake of your two innocent children. They are blank slates when we get them, and what is going on around them is impacting them in ways you cannot begin to imagine, ways that may not be completely evident until they are adults. Please consider this. Life is not a dress rehearsal - you get ONE chance to do this, ONE chance to raise your kids in a healthy, loving, nurturing, emotionally and physically safe home. All too quickly they will be adults and you can't do it over. All too quickly, you and he will be middle aged/older people, you can't live your life over the way you always dreamed it would be. You have the opportunity to correct things that are wrong now, so you CAN do it the right way.
I dont mean any of this to offend in any way. I am in your shoes in so many ways. I have a horid screaming problem. I am under so much stress that the only way I handle things is to yell at my husband, and I dont want to hold my baby when I feel this way.
I am better at money than he is but I make sure he feels involved (He picks some food for dinners, and I ask things like "should we fix the lawn mower this week?" I know it will get done any ways but he feels like hes in charge). I make sure that he feels like he is getting something out of it also. I understand why he might feel like a child. I know this might sound silly, but everytime he gets paid make sure he has a little to spend on himself to buy what he wants (not booze). If he allready does, than thats his problem. Im not sure if he works, but if he does, I can see how it would be hard to work all day, come home to a screaming wife, and not get anything out of it. He loves you and the kids, most guys are not willing to do what he offered if he leaves. I feel so bad when my husband comes home and I just scream. I make sure he gets to buy a moivie he wants or something everytime he gets paid.
Some things that have worked for us is walks. I know it sounds kinda wierd, but when I am just screaming, I tell him "lets walk" this way I can vent and I know I wont yell down the street at him, and we end up having great conversations. Also you might want to try filling up your weekend with plans, like family picknics, and other play dates. Make sure he comes. Make it an every weekend event to keep the family close. Maybe let him have a couple of drinks on friday, but I bet he will love the family outings more than drinking if you keep them positive.
I understand the way both of you feel. My husband has wanted to leave me when I get really bad, and honestly I dont know if I would be able to handle him screaming at me constantly, and it would hurt me to see him scream at my kids all the time. I would want to leave him too. I admire my man for sticking with me for so long. I dont think I would stay with me.
My husband is a child in so many ways. He doesnt pick up after himself, he makes messes like a kid, wants to watch TV all the time, and sometimes I want to kick his butt. I know how it feels to raise an adult, but he is a awsome dad, and loves me more than life it self. Its worth the work.
The main advise I can say is find something you can do to help you "talk" it out instead of yelling it out. I still work on that everyday. I find walks help me, or sometimes a drive in the car. Find a way to talk to the kids. I know how frustrating this situation is. I am in it. We just need to relax and realize that there is more to life than money, keeping a house clean, ect. Just take a day and leave to spend time with your family. From what it sounds like you need family time to re-bond. Pick your battles. I hope everything works out for you.
He doesn't drink at all during the week so he is not the problem then with me screaming at the kids that is my problem.
You also need to realize that you carry resentment from what he did over the weekend over to the week also. I can almost bet you that if your marriage was in great working order, you wouldn't be screaming at the kids near as much. You have A LOT built up inside you and you are yelling to get it out. I am not saying that your screaming at the kids isn't you because it is, but he plays a big part in that too!!
Anon, I hope things worked out at dinner last night.
Dinner didn't happen last night we had a sick child at home that I couldn't leave alone with a sitter so he went to my parents house to stay for the night to give us each a chance to think apart from each other we are going to try to do dinner tonight. I will let you guys know tomorrow how things are. Thanks for asking.
(((((hugs Sweetie))))))
((((Anon)))) It sounds like he DEFINITELY has an alcohol problem, and that alcohol problem is causing him to, at the very least, walk the line of abusive. Hang in there, only you know what life is like in your home, and whether it is something that you can work on. My thoughts are with you, let us know how you're doing.
How are things? {{Anon}}
Please let us know how you are doing, Anon. {{{Hugs}}}
Anon - Get some help for your rage too. You guys are in a relationship and how you cope with matters, whether it's drinking or yelling, are related to each other. You can't fix your yelling without him addressing his drinking and vice versa as they're very likely intertwined.
Get some couples counselling. You both have some serious problems that are damaging to yourselves, each other and your kids.
{{{hugs}}} How are you doing today?
I start counseling by myself tonight and he agreed to go and make him own appointment. So he has until next Friday to give me a date for his appointment. This week things have been calmer in the house. No screaming and no yelling. I am trying really hard to count before I speak and if I can tell we are going to get into an arguement I walk away until it can be discussed normally or I tell him it is not up for discussion because I do not want to fight.
I hope this is the road to better for now I am keeping an open mind and hoping for the best. Thanks ladies for being there for me I love you all.
((anon))
good for you! Thats a step in the right direction. I hope things work out for you. Keep us posted, we are here for you any time you need us.
(((HUGS)))
I hope everything works out for the best for you and your family. And make sure that you like your counselor. If you dont- just find a diff one. 
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