Okay, I have two older brothers who have never been very responsible people. Seems they never grew up. Anyway, they're constantly borrowing money (and other things) from my mom whom one of them lives next door to in the house that used to belong to my grandmother. The other brother seems to finally be getting it together (at age 36) and although he still borrows a lot from my mom and hasn't paid her back what he owes her, he's finally stopped borrowing money. Several years ago my dh and I gave this brother some money so he could get home after he seperated (was kicked out for financial irresponsibility and for being overweight) from the Air Force. At the time we told him, "This is a gift--we don't expect it back. All we ask is that you get your act together." After 13+ years he's finally getting there. The other one though, oh boy. He's going to be 40yo this year and he STILL doesn't get it! He's constantly borrowing from my mom who can't afford to give to him but doesn't know how to say no! Anyway, he called me this afternoon complaining about how he was sitting there trying to figure out how to pay his bills. I told him to call everyone and give them at least a little each until he got paid again. Usually that will work. Well he called me back about an hour later and said that if he didn't pay the phone company $150 they were going to shut his phone off and it'd cost him $500 to have it turned back on (probably as a deposit). He then for the first time EVER asked me if I could loan him $150 just this once. I told him no. I said I'd really like to help him, but I won't loan him money and that I was sorry and good luck. He didn't sound mad (he doesn't really get mad easily) but did sound a little down. Dh and I have talked about it before and have mutually decided not to loan either of my brothers money. Can I tell you I almost started crying when I hung up the phone? It really hurts me to see him in dire straights, but he and his family did it to themselves and I will not be pulled into it. I KNOW I'd never get the money back. Part of this bill they can't pay are from long distance calls to Germany where my sil and two nephews just spent two months visiting her family (used their tax money for the plane tickets while their house payment and car payments were late that month). This is one reason dh and I will never live close to my family. WAY too much drama. ARGH!!! Thanx for letting me vent. I know some of you are right there with me (Hi, Tonya! lol). *sigh*

By Anonymous on Friday, August 4, 2006 - 06:55 pm:

Oh boy... I know how you feel, but it is my 38yo bil (he is schizo and is just such a mess- he will never be normal and will always be needy)and my 24yo dss (unfortunately, instead of raising him too be a man and take responsibility for his own actions - his Mom spoiled him rotten and helped him develop an attitude of 'everyone owes poor me')... ugh It is so stressful here somtimes because of these 2.

Of course, it is different when it is your own child. I know dh feels sad that his ds went too college for 5 yrs failed and got kicked out 1.5 yrs ago. I know it is disappointing to my dh that his ds didnt get his act together finish school when he had his scholarships, grants and dh helping pay... And I know when he calls needing money (dss quit his job at UPS last April for no good reason) the common sense side of my dh doesnt want too pay for his bills- but the soft hearted parent side feels bad for him ... And then the ex calls making dh feel guilty about not doing enough for their ds. And then dss calls Dad complaining that he doesnt do enough for him. aaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhh I have NO problem helping a young adult that is *reallY* trying too bust tail and help themself. But this kid has never had a serious job until the UPS job. And then he quit after 6 mos. He is going on 4 mos of not working and his MOM has been paying his rent? We paid his credit card bill last month of a $430 minimum pymt. We gave him $300 in June and dh pretty much called it his bday present but told him too use it on bills. Well, dss didnt like that. Dh told him too sell his stock. Dss did it but was really mad about it. Dss told dh that he is where he is at in life (flunked out of college and unemployeed and now has too move back home too his Mom's, lost his drivers license in the spring- got a dui ) because dh doesnt help him enough?

It is *really* sad and extremely frustrating. He is great looking, smart, healthy, can be very kind... But for some reason he just doesnt seem too get it. We have given him money time after time and I am so tired of it. Because no matter how many times we give him money it still isnt enough and he isnt appreciative.

I understand you wanting too help your brother and feeling bad for him. But you are doing the right thing! I feel so bad for your poor Mother. They have too be really draining her emotionally.

I am going anon but you know who I am. LOL

By Ginny~moderator on Friday, August 4, 2006 - 07:42 pm:

Cat, I feel badly for your mother too. My rule of thumb, with family and close friends, is to never loan money that I can't afford to give away. Since I was broke most of my life until the last 10 years, that wasn't very often. I will say that I once loaned a friend some money and she paid it back. I have loaned one of my sons some money, and he insisted on a note and makes monthly payments that include the interest I get from my ING account. But that's still my rule - if I couldn't have afforded to give the money away I wouldn't have loaned it.

Anon, it is very hard for your dh, and I am sure it is heartbreaking for you to watch. But dss is, as you and dh realize, just being manipulative, and every time you give him money the same thing will happen - plus he won't respect you because he knows he is getting away with manipulation - and is not appreciative. Such a darn shame, and I am sure your husband keeps wondering "if I had done thus-and-so maybe it would have helped". But, truth is, some people are just made in such a way that until they realize that they are responsible for getting their acts and lives together and seeking professional help, nothing you do can change anything. Sounds to me like this is a young man who has skated through life on his good looks and charm, and is finally being faced with the hard fact that good looks and charm won't always cut it. Now he is trying to deny that any of it is his fault, and until he accepts responsibility for himself, nothing will change. It is very sad, and heart-breaking.

It is very hard to let a child sink or swim.

By Cat on Saturday, August 5, 2006 - 02:52 pm:

I talked to my mom last night. She said he'd already asked her for money, but she didn't have any to give him. She said my sil has been bugging my brother for a week to call me and ask for money. So my brother called this morning from the road (both brothers are truck drivers), without sil around and says, "I didn't want to ask you for money. I just wanted *A* off my back. I'd never ask you for money unless it were a real emergency." I told him not to worry about it. The sad thing is, if they don't get their act together they're going to lose their house, car (which they really can't afford anyway--$500 a month payments) and everything else. My nephews are 12 and 15 and the 15yo wants to be a doctor. He better study hard and get scholarships. It really is sad.

And Ginny and Anon (yes, I know who you are ) I know I did the right thing. It still breaks my heart.

By Missbookworm on Saturday, August 5, 2006 - 05:04 pm:

Your brothers sound so much like mine.

They're 40 and 40 something. I have no contact with either of them. I just couldn't do it anymore.

My mother still helps out the one who lives close to her, but has, as far as I know, cut off the other one. It's so hard for me to not say anything and to let it go, but after years of trying I have given up and let her make her own decisions.

I am like Ginny and don't lend money to family or close friends unless I can absolutely afford too. It was so hard to learn to say no. It hurts so much to this day.

(((((((((( Cat )))))))))

By Tonya on Monday, August 7, 2006 - 08:45 am:

Hugs (CAT) I saw my name in there LOL!! I know exactly what you are going through and it is rough but you have to tell them no. And your mom is like my mom. We had a long conversation (my mom and I) a week or so back and she told me no matter what everyone thinks it is her child and she cannot let her hit rock bottom. When it is your child it is different she says. My parents have reached the point though where they will not pay to get her out of trouble. They will buy groceries for her but only that. They told her they would put her on a budget with her own money and pay her bills for her with her money but they will not geive her anymore $$$.

And I know that when all of this happened I went off finally on my sister and told her exactly what I thought about her and the way she was treating our family. I told her to stop going to family for money and grow up. It was not their job to support her or her kids it was her job. My grandparents were the ones that kept bailing her out with money. This last time while the eviction guy was in my sisters yard waiting to throw her things out into that yard while her kids were watching.

My grandparents worked hard for many many years to get what they have and she is helping them flush it all down the toliet. I told her if I heard of her asking for money again from them we were going to have a fmaily war and I was going to win!!

Good luck it is hard but tough love is needed. I know.