Need Suggestions on how to handle a situation & A Vent
Moms View Message Board: General Discussion: Archive July 2006:
Need Suggestions on how to handle a situation & A Vent
We went out for dinner this evening to a restaurant here called The Keg. It is a steak house. It is a place where you might go out with a group of adults or go on a date or go out for dinner with your family. We were seated in an area where it was mostly families with small children.
We have two children, Matthew 2 years and Cameron 10 months. The children in my opinion where well behaved. I always ask for 2 high chairs as I do not want Matthew running around the restaurant so both kids were contained. Cameron has a tendency to scream (not loudly) and not in a upset crying way but in a happy way. Just little shrieks of joy. I try my best to sssshhh him and I usually put a pacifier in his mouth. Now before I get blasted, we are really not the kind of parents that allow misbehaviour when we are out in public and if we felt that our children were making a huge disturbance one of us would have taken that child or both children outside to calm down. This was really no big deal.
Some one complained. The manager came up to our table and asked me if there was anything he could do to help. I was initially confused then I clued in and I asked him if someone had complained. He said yes and asked me if he could get my kids some milk and if that would help them calm down. By this time they were both sitting quietly. I said "No we are almost finished and will be leaving shortly".
DH and I are really upset, we feel we had every right to be there, our meal excluding tip and before tax cost $160.00. I really feel the manager handled the situation inappropriately. I think he should have offered to move the people who complained as the restaurant was not busy, or offered to pay for their dessert or buy them a drink. He should have also said to the other group that we were almost finished our meal and would probably be leaving shortly. I really think nothing should have been said to us. We are paying customers like everyone else. Our children were not running all over the place, there were no temper tantrums, Cameron squealed happily a few times. Really, I'm not a parent with blinders on when it comes to my kids and I'm actually quite strict.
Anyway I don't want to get into a huge debate about children in restaurants. I am going to write a letter of complaint to the restaurant and copy it to the Corporate head office. I was hoping some of you ladies would offer some suggestions as to what I should say.
Oh and thanks for letting me vent.
I'm sort of having mixed feelings, as a restaurant where you pay $160 for a dinner - well, I'm surprised that they even offer highchairs. But that's not what you asked. You asked for advice for what to put in your letter.
So, one of the things I'd put in the letter is that the restaurant does offer highchairs, so they must expect to have families with very young children. Given that the restaurant expects to have very young children among their customers, they should expect that very young children don't behave like adults all the time. Your children were not unruly and were not generally loud - and a restaurant that offers high chairs should expect that a child in a high chair would sometimes make noises that would be unsuitable from an adult.
Having spent $160 for a dinner, you are offended that the restaurant didn't follow up their offer of highchairs with a reasonable tolerance for the normal behavior of children who need highchairs. The manager's attitude towards you seemed to indicate that your children were a problem. If that was the case - if the restaurant could not accept some level of noise from a child in a highchair, they should not offer highchairs or advertise themselves as a family restaurant. You regret that another patron was offended, but you don't expect to spend $160 on a dinner and be treated as if your children were a major disruption when they definitely were not. Surely some other manner of handling the matter could have been found - one that did not offend someone who is now a former patron.
(My granddaughter is at the giggle/sqeak/scream/dribble stage right now, and I will admit that I found her screams of delight a bit surprising when I was with her yesterday, but I quickly remembered that this is a normal thing for children her age, and just giggle back at her.)
I don't blame you for being offended. I would have been , too. I know what you mean about parents who seem to have blinders on when it comes to their kids, but you don't seem to be that type at all.
I agree with Ginny that "The Keg" was apparently a pricey restaurant at $160.00 for the meal. And, as stated, they do supply high chairs, they must expect to get patrons with small children. And, you said you were seated with other families with children. I totally agree that the manager handled it all wrong. He should have offered to move the 'complaining' party, or offered them something free. By handling it the way he did, he has probably lost two parties. The complainers and yourselves. I would put that in your letter.
I don't understand miserable people who forget that they were once children themselves. Are we THAT demanding of having everything the way we want it all the time?
Most definitely write the letter and sent a copy to the corporate office. Sorry you had such a bad evening. 
I am still reeling that this place cost $160 for 4 people, 2 of whom hardly count as a full dinner.
The problem that I see is that the manager was put in the middle here. Had he not came to your table, he would have offended the people complaining who expected him to do something. So, either way, the manager probably couldn't win.
I don't know what kind of tone he used with you, whether it was condescending or compassionate, but if you really feel that you were wronged, I would follow Ginny's suggestion. If they have a customer base that doesn't tolerate children, then they shouldn't provide children's menus, highchairs, etc, and they shouldn't advertise the establishment as a "family" restaurant.
I've never been to a family place where dinner was that expensive, but maybe this place is required to have high chairs but doesn't really want children. There are a couple of places (expensive) where DH and I will occasionally eat. We would take Natalie because she never makes a sound at a restaurant, but if she were that type of toddler, we wouldn't take her with us simply because people are trying to have a romantic dinner there. Those are upscale places where I just think people don't want to see a little one with steak sauce smeared all over her face, you know?
I'm NOT saying you did anything wrong AT ALL...just my first thoughts! The only thing I can think of is how I felt about kids/babies in my pre-mom days...I DID NOT want to hear a sound out of kids then (LOL) and I couldn't understand why parents couldn't shut their kids up. Did you ever feel that way? Maybe someone was irritated by your children being normal, and I agree with Lisa that the manager probably couldn't win in this situation.
I think he should have offered to move the complainers, but should not have said anything to you unless maybe there were multiple people complaining. It sounds like the complainers were just being picky, but if they aren't around kids like you are all day, most anything could have sounded loud and disruptive to them, you know?
I agree with Ginny and Lisa on what to include in the letter. I might also add that if they don't want children in their restaurant (who will ALWAYS make noise) then they should not make provisions for children.
I think they should have moved the other people also as your area was mostly families. They should have a quiet area and a kid area imo. I guess I am lax, I honestly do not care1 if there are children near me in a restaurant. Maybe I just zone it out too well, lololz. I am sure my kids have offended many people. I am sorry this happened and I would write a letter also.
And I often wonder if the 'complainers' are the same people who whip out their cell phones and carry on loud conversations for all to hear?
Thanks Ginny so much for wording help with my letter and to everyone for the support.
I guess I should clarify a few things. I was mistaken about the $160 for dinner, DH paid the bill and he said it was $160. It was $136.62 including tax and excluding tip for 2 people not 4. Cameron ate before we left and had his bottle in the restaurant, Matthew ate from what DH and I ordered as we ordered plenty of food.
Also this is a family restaurant with a children's menu and high chairs, on their website they describe themselves as casual dinning, not fine dinning. Here is a link to their site:
The Keg
Yes our meal was expensive, however we don't go out often. We both had a drink before dinner, we shared an appetizer, we both had a main course that ranged in price from $25-$28, I also ordered a 1/2 lobster for us to share which came to $17.95. My meal included salad, DH's did not so he ordered a salad as well, we both had a glass of wine with dinner which for 2 glasses of wine cost $19. With all that said does that mean that we have to duct tape our children's mouths shut? I'm not being defensive with you guys, I'm still ticked off at the restaurant.
I do however think that if you want a quiet meal for adults then you should not chose to go to a restaurant that has a children's menu regardless of how expensive it is. Does price really dictate who can or should be allowed in the restaurant? Is it fare to say that you pay more for a meal in a restaurant with no children? So if you want to have a nice meal you have to leave your children at home? When did we become so intolerant as a society?
I agree that the manager was in a awkward position but as I think Ginny said he now has two parties upset. I am really angry by his comments, he asked me if there was anything he could do that would help calm my children down. I have worked in restaurants and would have never said anything to a table with young children, I would have handled the situation with the complainers and tried to accommodate them in anyway possible. The restaurant was half empty as it was a holiday weekend here and most people were away at the cottage, that's part of the reason we decided to go out as we assumed there would be no line up and not a lot of people out for dinner. Anyway I'm still venting I guess.
I was in Minneapolis this weekend in a Sport bar/restaurant. A 2 year old had a full blown temper tantrum for nearly 10 minutes before her father took her outside, sure it was loud but I would not for the life of me complained.
If there's a specific children's menu, then I wouldn't think twice about taking my kid(s) there. I can totally see where you're coming from, and really you DO NOT have to explain your $100+ meal!! You can spend $200 on a bottle of wine if you want, my dear! I just thought that maybe that price meant a more quiet place that wouldn't want children. And honestly, we wouldn't take Natalie to an expensive place, so that's all I meant by people maybe not expecting to see children there. Based on what you said, it sounds like a real family place.
Even if it wasn't though, you can truly take your kids anywhere. I really didn't mean that at all. I just meant that if it *weren't* a family place, you MIGHT have intolerant people around you.
Yeah, yeah Deanna I know what you're saying, I'm not ticked off at any here, I just ticked off.
I think you have every right to be upset, Heaventree. I hope you will write the letter. It's a family restaurant, period. I think they really handled things inappropriately. You didn't deserve to end your evening on such a bad note.
OK, let me try again, now that I have a fuller picture.
Dear Sir:
On (date), my husband and I, with our 2 year old son and 10 month old son, went to the (address) Keg. As you well know, The Keg advertises itself as a family restaurant, offering high chairs and a children's menu, so we felt that it would be a perfect place to have a holiday meal with our children, as a family.
During the meal, our 10 month old son occasionally squealed. He didn't cry, he didn't yell, he didn't have a tantrum - he squealed every so often - one of the noises children of that age make when they are having a good time and want to express themselves. We shushed him, of course, but he did occasionally squeal.
To our surprise, near the end of our meal the manager came over and asked if there was anything he could do to "calm the children down". We were quite surprised, because our children were quite calm. The manager then explained that one of the other diners had made a complaint.
I can understand that the manager felt he had to do something when a patron made a complaint. However, I think it is out of line and inappropriate for a restaurant that advertises itself as a family restaurant (to the point of offering children's menus and highchairs) to treat a family with children as if they are in the wrong when their child makes intermittent and normal child noises. I feel very strongly that the manager should have reminded the complainers that The Keg is a family restaurant, open to diners with children, and that sometimes children will make some noises. If he felt he really had to accomodate the complaining patrons, he could have offered to move them to another area of the restaurant, or offered them a free drink or dessert. Instead, he chose to treat us as if our family was offensive.
The bill for our dinner that evening was over $130.00, and, of course, we tipped the waiter/tress because it wasn't his/her fault that we were treated like offenders. You can be sure that that $130 is the last money we will spend at The Keg. And we intend to tell our friends with children that even though The Keg advertises itself as a family restaurant, it only welcomes families with perfect children.
$130+ - sheesh. More power to you.
Thanks Ginny, you're a doll! I've written my letter but yours is much nicer than mine. LOL! I'm still mad. Mine is seething with sarcasm. I'll let DH be the voice of reason on this one, perhaps I'll take bits from yours and edit mine a bit as well.
Thanks again!
The thing is, if you write a nasty letter "seething with sarcasm", they are much more likely to just toss it off as an hysterical woman and send you a form letter reply, and much less likely to take it seriously. (They might still send you a form letter reply, but they might also speak to the manager if they take you seriously.)
When I want to complain about a situation like this, my approach is to complain "more in sorrow than in anger" (a phrase I read somewhere that stuck with me). Sor of, I'm really sorry this occurred and I regret the necessity of having to make a complaint, but I think this is important enough that you should know about it. And it usually works.
The thing is, you don't want them to think you're the "usual" nasty letter writer who doesn't see it from the manager's point of view and just wants to complain and get someone in trouble. The more reasonable you sound, all the while making your complaint, the more they are likely to perceive you as a reasonable person who has a valid complaint.
Ditto Ginny-I usually kill them with kindness.My DH and I looove the Keg.We have never taken dk's there but have seen many there.They are really not that fancy but the food is good.I'm sorry it worked out that way.Its nice when you can go out for dinner without a playland involved.I hope it works out better next time for you.
I didn't really get what the price of the meal had to do w/anything? I just think it boils down to some people just don't like being around kids and thats the bottom line. I say "too bad for them"! I have two children, now 9 and 15. I had friends w/no kids and they pick up on every little noise a kid makes. I just tune it out as I am used to being around children. Your kids sounded like they were well behaved to me.
I dont' think it matters what the price was, the manager has a duty, he had a complaining client, he did not know the "real" story, most likely the complainers said "This table has two kids being loud and the little one keeps screaming", so the manager has a duty to take care of a situation. I have many times, many many times actually in my restaurant experience offered drinks and plates of fruit to shut kids up
I'm not saying that your kids were being noisy buy most likely the manager was unawares of what was really happening and just handling the situation based on the other clients complaints.
I would skip the letter, it doesn't sound like the manager was rude or out of line.
I agree with Kym on this one. I think he was just trying to make the best out of a bad situation. I understand how you feel but really, it was the complaining customers who created the problem, not the manager.
I would send the letter. When you reach the positon of manager you should be able to handle situations with finess. He should have approached it differently. I would have apologized to the complaining party and offered them dessert or drinks on the house. Then I would have taken a few moments to observe the situation and may have approached the table to see how your meal was going and if I could offer anything (crackers, juice, ice cream) for the kids, but most certainly would not have said "to calm them down". I would have played it off as I was just making my rounds. The complaining party didn't need to know what was said to you and would have been pacified to see that the manager approached you. When you are in a managerial position you have to know how to talk to people and handle situations and that certainly is not the way and I would have blown a gasket had he come to us like that. I have worked in customer service and there are just some things that you just dont do!
I would have been mad and I would write a letter. If nothing else, they can give you a coupon good towards a future visit.
One night, when Sarah was maybe about 2, or almost 2, we went to Arby's. They were packed and the staff seemed to have difficulty handling it. I don't remember anymore, if they were short-staffed that night. We end up getting our roast-beef sandwiches, but not Sarah's. Sure, try to explain to a young child why you got your food, and she didn't. I think we had to go up to the counter, to complain. I think we waited an incredibly long time for the food to come, too.
Anyway, I wrote a letter, outlining what happened that night and how unhappy we were, in a nice way. We got a letter of apology and a $10 coupon, which back then, was enough to pay for the three of us to eat there. (circa 1991-ish) We went back. We still love Arby's.
I just remembered that a lot of people, who were waiting to order, ended up walking out, to go somewhere else, because it was just taking forever. Maybe they were short-staffed.
I've never had an experience like that, at Arby's since then! So, it must have just been a bad day.
Heaventree,
You ticked, they not my kids and honestly I'm ticked for you. Call me bias because I am a mom , no I dont' feel that the manager was caught in the middle of anything. After reading what happended I think you handeld the sititution better then I would have. I hate for someoen to complain aobtu ym kids, cousins any kids i'm out with in public especially when they arne't doing anythign out of the way. I woul dhave awanted to knwo whom complained I woul dhave confronted them. If they sat you in a section where there other familes w/ small children, then that tells me that they know, expect and understand that children do make noise and not sit with there hands uin there laps for a hour or more ( usually how long it takes for dinner) So if you where in a section liek that I just would have liked to knwo whom the complainer's where? and if theyre where a childless couple( no harm meant)then why where they seated in such a section. adn Yes I do agree that if they found the noise (babbling, happy squeling that he can make sounds now of a baby) then they shold have asked themselfs to be moved or either the manager should have suggested to move them and/or offer to take somethign something off on there meal.
But I would have beeen hot with the manager first of all for approaching me in front of others( especailly like I said especially the sititution was not that extreme)but when he asked could he get my kids some milk. I would have been levid that he even suggested that I didn't bring my own child(ren) something to drink. And then how does he know that they aren;t allergic to milk. The thing to be would have been to just ask if there was anythign that we needed that you could provide.
better yet the thing to do really would hae been not to come and approach us at all.
I say write your letter and addresse one directly oto the manager so that he can know exactly how he made you and your husband feel. And yeas I would be sure to let them knwo that they lost a patron due to the sititution. BEcaue I dount you would be dining there agian spening your money hwen you where treated in such a unsatisfactoy manner. thats my opnion and how I feel. And I doubt he ( the manager) has any kids himself beacue if he did then he would have handled the sitituion better then he did.
And be sure to send Coroporate Office a copy so that they can knwo how there manager is handling sititutions like this at that paticuliar establishment.
Heaventree,
You ticked, they not my kids and honestly I'm ticked for you. Call me bias because I am a mom , no I dont' feel that the manager was caught in the middle of anything. After reading what happended I think you handeld the sititution better then I would have. I hate for someoen to complain aobtu ym kids, cousins any kids i'm out with in public especially when they arne't doing anythign out of the way. I woul dhave awanted to knwo whom complained I woul dhave confronted them. If they sat you in a section where there other familes w/ small children, then that tells me that they know, expect and understand that children do make noise and not sit with there hands uin there laps for a hour or more ( usually how long it takes for dinner) So if you where in a section liek that I just would have liked to knwo whom the complainer's where? and if theyre where a childless couple( no harm meant)then why where they seated in such a section. adn Yes I do agree that if they found the noise (babbling, happy squeling that he can make sounds now of a baby) then they shold have asked themselfs to be moved or either the manager should have suggested to move them and/or offer to take somethign something off on there meal.
But I would have beeen hot with the manager first of all for approaching me in front of others( especailly like I said especially the sititution was not that extreme)but when he asked could he get my kids some milk. I would have been levid that he even suggested that I didn't bring my own child(ren) something to drink. And then how does he know that they aren;t allergic to milk. The thing to be would have been to just ask if there was anythign that we needed that you could provide.
better yet the thing to do really would hae been not to come and approach us at all.
I say write your letter and addresse one directly oto the manager so that he can know exactly how he made you and your husband feel. And yeas I would be sure to let them knwo that they lost a patron due to the sititution. BEcaue I dount you would be dining there agian spening your money hwen you where treated in such a unsatisfactoy manner. thats my opnion and how I feel. And I doubt he ( the manager) has any kids himself beacue if he did then he would have handled the sitituion better then he did.
And be sure to send Coroporate Office a copy so that they can knwo how there manager is handling sititutions like this at that paticuliar establishment.
Whether you receive a reply or not will give you an idea of how much they care. If they don't reply, I would never go back there. If they are truly remorseful, and offer to make it right, I might give them another chance.
I think that the suggestion to send the manager a copy of your letter to corporate is a good one. That way, he'll know that you are not going over his head. We all need our jobs, but he needs to know that he messed up on this situation.
Ditto.
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