Need teen advice from someone whose btdt
Moms View Message Board: General Discussion: Archive June 2006:
Need teen advice from someone whose btdt
deleted by op
My advice - don't try to discourage this friendship. Yes, work very hard at discouraging activities that you don't approve of - your reasons for disapproving sound good to me, and anyhow, she's your daughter and that's what counts. But if you try to discourage the friendship, you set up an opposite reaction. The more you criticize or try to interfere with or discourage the friendship, the more defensive and protective she will be of this person and of her judgment in deciding to be friends with this person. Because you *are* criticizing her judgment as well as her friend. You really can't get rid of that friendship, but you can make it go underground where you have even less opportunity to monitor and control it. And in trying to get rid of it, you can set up huge battles between you and your daughter, on top of the normal teen battles every mother and daugher have.
My experience was that if I criticized a friend, my son (whichever one) got protective of the "friend" and became sufficiently defensive that he would not recognize when this friend became non-friendly until the process was pretty far along. But when I accepted that friend on the same basis as I did all others - that is, my rules stayed the same, my expectations of my son stayed the same, if the friend was in our house or our company I expected the same courtesy and respectful behavior I expected from anyone else - my son did not feel pressed to defend his judgment in becoming friends with that person. And, my son was able to see much sooner when the person did things that jarred against our family's values, and when problems arose felt more free to talk with me about them because my son had not had to defend that relationship.
I won't say I never criticized, but what I criticized was what my son did or said if he allowed himself to be tempted into something by an inappropriate friend. And if he blamed it on the friend, I would say something like - nuts, you know the rules and you broke them, and you are to blame. If you let someone else lead you into it, then it is your fault for letting yourself be led.
If MySpace had been around when my sons were in that age group, I would definitely have looked - often. I don't know if I would have worked very hard to not let them know I was looking or if I would have told them I am looking. I suspect that is the dilemma of every parent whose child has a MySpace or similar account. I do think you have to be very, very careful to not let her know or even suspect that you are reading her e-mail, however. I am sure she would consider that very much like opening a snailmail letter addressed to her.
I don't envy you parents dealing with these issues one little bit.
Well, honestly, you have violated her privacy by snooping.
BUT - unfortunately, sometimes it's necessary, and sometimes when it's done you find out things that you NEED to know and wouldn't have otherwise found out about.
I agree 100% with Ginny. ESPECIALLY - after raising 4 teens - on the points made about criticizing the friend(s). It will DEFINITELY make her defensive and push her into that direction. BTDT in spades........more than once, unfortunately, and learned the painful, hard way.
As far as how to handle the Myspace account, does she use the same computer as you do? If so, then there's your opening. You can sit down with her, and tell her that you suspect she has a Myspace account, and that you suspect it because you noticed the trail on the computer. I'm sure kids know to delete the history and temp files, but there's always a chance that maybe she *didn't* one day. Anyway, that's what I'd do. Put it to her like that, give her the chance to come clean about it. THEN insist that she log onto the account, show you her profile, and see if she acts as though she has anything to hide.
Then comes the time for the talks - about internet safety, dating, boys, sex, etc. All of it - the whole ball of wax. I don't know her age, and you say you are vigilant about knowing where she is, but teens will be teens, and you cannot trust that they are *always* honest with you. BTDT too.
As the parent, YOU have the right to set certain limits, and you also have the obligation, IMO, to know what she is doing online, and that includes email and myspace. I'm not saying you should read her every email by any means. But you do need to be aware of her basic activities online for her own protection.
As for the other friend whom you don't like, again, as Ginny posted, talking negatively about this friend will only make the friend seem more attractive to her. You'll just have to limit the exposure to this friend, and talk to your DD. Talk to her about the very things you're worried this friend will get her interested in.
Good luck!!!!
deleted by op
deleted by op
First of all, I applaud you for snooping. Do not feel guilty. You have every right- it is your home, your computer, and your child's welfare. Yes, she may feel violated, but that is only because she was given too much freedom and privacy to begin with.
I have explained this to my son several times- it is my job as a parent to keep him safe. He isn't always going to know when something is dangerous, and it is my job to watch out for the dangers and expose them to him so that he knows and can stay away from them. He also knows that I (and his dad) have the ultimate authority, and we can take anything away from him whenever we see fit. Although my son is only 9, I am laying the groundwork for when he is a teen.
Your dd is communicating with a hormonally charged boy and an influential girl, all totally without your knowledge until now. It appears that your dd has a completely different life outside of the family. You can fix that. Sit down and have a very open frank talk with her. Find out what makes her tick, why she is so interested in this dark person and about the dark things that she is talking about. In order to know how to help her, you really have to get a grip on what is going through her mind. Then you can set her straight on those things.
I use God a lot. I say that God would not want us getting into stuff like that. It's against His rules. I have showed it to him in the Bible. If you do not want to use God, that is your choice. It seems to work for me as far as getting my son to understand right from wrong and gives him a sense of compassion and conscience.
Anyway, I would also get more involved with your dd in ways that get her away from the computer. Go places and do things. Go for walks, play board games, teach her how to knit, how to cook. Go to the movies, out for dinner, to a baseball game, to the museum. You will find that there will be more opportunities to talk to her about the facts of life (not just the birds and bees.) She may open up to you, and you can talk to her about sex, drugs, drinking, religion, values, love. REALLY get involved in her, and when she sees that you can be more fun, she will WANT to do things with you instead of chatting on the PC.
Oh, I clicked "post this message" when I realy wanted to add -
((((HUGS)))) and good luck! 
Okay, my girls have myspace too and I haven't snooped, but I worry!
Recently a Clemson student was killed and the picture used on TV was from myspace. It just seemed alittle freaky.
So, I had the old conversation about privacy.
Anon- just be really, really sure she isn't sharing too much information.
I would never allow my kids to have a myspace account or anything similar. I do not understand the need to have one, when there are so many other things to keep them busy. We have one computer and it is blocked from instant messaging and chatrooms. If I found that they were doing it behind my back, I would tell them I found it. It is your house and your rules. My daughter will not be allowed to date young. I would definitely monitor the communication with the friends/boyfriend. I HAVE forbidden my kids from hanging out with kids we deem inappropriate. So far they have respected our wishes.
I think keeping your daughter busy is a great idea. You sound like a very careing and wonderful mom!
deleted by op
I don't think there is anything bad about having one as long as it doesn't get too carried away. We live in a very small town with limited things to do- now my girls do work and get out with other things. I don't know- maybe I am a horrible Mom, but I would rather them talk to me about things than just forbid them to do them altogether.
Then she does not respect your authority. And I would not allow her to continue with this behavior simply as a means of spying on her. You have to nip this in the bud.
There is a type of technique that I have heard about (don't remember where) that when kids exhibit a complete lack of respect for parental authority, you go as far as you can to show them exactly how much authority you do have in the home. You take their door off its hinges and take everything out of their room. This means EVERYTHING. Off the walls, out of the closet, all the furniture, even the bed frame. Leave nothing but the box springs and mattress and a change of clothes for a week. If the child chooses to blatantly disregard your wishes, then they lose ALL priveledges, including privacy.
Then lay down the rules as they should have been laid down from the beginning. As the child complies with the rules, then they gradually EARN back their priveledges.
This is a tough love approach. But your dd's future may very well depend on it.
Anon, since you specifically told her she could NOT have a myspace account and she did anyway (dishonestly), and you have noticed a behavior change, I think you have to address it with her.
In the past, I tried to respect my kids' privacy - to a point. There is a fine line between respecting their privacy, and intervening, IMO.
Years ago, when oldest DS and DD were teens, we (actually *I*) suspected they were using drugs. X-DH was in total denial and had the gall to tell me it was normal for them to experiment so it was nothing to worry about. Then came room searches (this was before computers), and boy, was I surprised at some of the things I found. Did I invade their private space? Yes, BUT there were behavioral changes that warranted it. So they were each confronted. They could not very well be upset that their privacy was invaded when they were lying to us, doing things behind our back, and doing things which they were told not to do.
So, you are balancing on a slippery slope here. I do understand where you are coming from: "Now, I can take her laptop away and not know anything that she is doing or I can pretend I don't know and keep everything in check." But I really think you need to have an honest discussion with her. Because, as I learned from awful experience, *thinking* you are keeping tabs on a situation without actually dealing with it can have disastrous results.
Please, try to find a way to have this conversation with her that will allow her to confess she has a myspace account, rather than you actually having to tell her you snooped. Once she knows you snooped, she will be furious and probably more inclined to hide things. But if there is any way you can get HER to open that door for you, I think you'll be better off.
I am not saying you shouldn't trust your kids, but after raising 4 teens, I don't think they are always truly honest with us, and some of the things they aren't honest about can be potentially seriously harmful to them in the long run. I made a mistake in trusting Jeff and Jen too much and believing everything they told me from ages 13 to 18, and it was a huge mistake, believe me. It would make your hair stand on end if you heard some of the things I've found out - things that were self destructive and harmful to them, and very hurtful to me. If I had it to do over again, I'd have my eyes open a bit wider and I wouldn't take everything they say or do at face value. Kids NEED to be checked up on. Even the BEST behaved, most trustworthy kid can find themselves in a situation that quickly gets out of control before they know it.
OH - and Lisa, regarding Tough Love, it is TOUGH - on the parents. LOL I tried to get X to get involved with Tough Love when the older 2 were teens, and he said *our kids don't have those kind of problems, we don't need this* - I reminded him that those other kids' problems did not start out small. But he thought it was a waste of time. I'm sure he's regretted it 10 times over since then.
Jeff, who was always *the golden child*, has made some very bad and self destructive decisions the past few years, and recently he moved back home to live *to straighten his life out*. I had 5 conditions that were absolutely non-negotiable, and he agreed to them the day before I let him move back in. Keep in mind, he is 22 now. Inside of a week, he had gone back on his word, and violated every one of my non-negotiable conditions and tried to manipulate me and change the playing field, so to speak. As hard as it was, and as much as it hurt me, I told him to leave and had the locks changed. I think if I'd been a bit more aware of certain things when he was a teen, possibly some of these roads that have hurt him and me so much, wouldn't have been traveled.
I'm telling all of this in hopes it will prevent others from going through the same h**L.
deleted by op
I agree. You told her NO, she did it anyhow. By the way, does she meet MySpace's rules for minimum age? If not, you can report her to MySpace and get her shut down.
Like another Anon and other parents here, I had two of my sons experiment with drugs, specificallyl with marijuana. When I found out with the first one, I told him he could either stop or go live with his father, and I would be checking his room, his pockets, and his privacy from then on. He chose to continue to live with me.
With the second one, he told me that it was his "right" to smoke pot and I couldn't do anything about it. Because he was then close to 18, I told him that maybe I couldn't stop him, but if he didn't stop I could change the locks on his 18th birthday and put his clothes on the front porch. He decided that smoking pot wasn't worth it. (To my great glee, several years later he learned that he is actually allergic to pot!)
I personally think you have to confront her with her disobedience, and, yes, take her laptop away and put some strict limits on her personal life. That's the price you pay when you break the rules, and actions have consequences - which is always a good rule to teach. You can expect a lot of arguing (but don't argue back - just say - you broke the rules and now you are paying the penalty, discussion closed). You can expect tears, anger, yelling, etc. And you can tell her that she can stay in her room until she can be have decently. You can shut down her phone privileges, take away her cell phone if she has one, and so on. I strongly doubt you'll have to progress to taking the door off the hinges, but I can tell you I would have done it if I'd had to. You don't have to "not know anything she is doing" when you take away her laptop, if you start controlling the other aspects of her life. Since summer vacation is upon us, you can suggest to her that she might not want to spend the next couple of months being grounded, and her behavior will affect how she spends her summer. You will have to do a lot of checking up on her, having her report in, etc. that you haven't felt it necessary to do before, but she is the one who broke the rules and lost your trust, and she is the one who should pay the consequences.
I never liked having to be so controlling, but there were times when I did it because I thought that particular son needed to re-learn that it is "my house, my rules" - period, end of discussion. And because I would much rather come down hard on my kids and nip something in the bud, rather than have it escalate because they think they are getting away with it. I had a neighbor who had to turn her 16 year old son over to the police because he started doing pot, then hard drugs, and stole her TV, VCR, silver and jewelry one day. She did it because she had a younger son at home and didn't want him to go the same route.
But, first, you and dh need to sit down and talk about this and come to agreement. If you don't act in total agreement, you've lost before you start.
And remember, this all has nothing to do with any of her friends. What you are dealing with is your daughter's behavior. If she was introduced to or talked into it by someone else, that shows she has poor judgment if she breaks the rules because someone else talks her into it. It is not the other person's fault - it is her fault, and she has to pay the penalty.
We all run into people who want us to do things we shouldn't do at every phase of life, and it starts in the teen years or, sadly, much earlier. And it is in these years that she has to learn that just because someone else thinks it is cool or neat or fun and that she ought to break the rules, she is the one who will pay the penalty for doing so. She can't blame it on someone else - "the serpent tempted me" wasn't accepted then and it shouldn't be accepted now.
I agree that her laptop should be taken away. There is nothing wrong with protecting your child and expecting her to follow your rules. We have never removed a door, but we have removed TV's, playstation, etc. They all had to be EARNED back. A laptop is a huge privilege. By going behind your back and signing up for myspace, she should lose the privilege. I understand your desire to know what she isn't telling you. I think getting more involved in her life is a better approach than spying.
I just went thru something similar. I was just little naive about what all my boys were into and knew about on the internet at their young age! (12 and 13) We figured out that they had a xanga acct. (like my space) And so did alot of their friends. Their computer was in their rooms. Long story short- we saw that someone had sent them some nasty IM's, etc... So I pulled the plug. They were a little shocked and defensive, and all that. ;) But they figured out real quick that it was a privelage to be on the internet and it will be taken away if not used appropriately. They have to use good judgement and be safe on it. One of the bird brains gave out our phone number!!! Helloooooooo that is the WWW. lol He was just posting it for a friend. We had to explain that friend plus a million other people now have our phone number. ;)
This happened in the winter and since then I have moved one computer downstairs in the living room. It sits where the screen faces into the room and I can see them all the time. I just this week (first week of summer) turned the internet back on for them. They do know that at anytime I can and will go thru their PC and see what they have been up too. They are not allowed to password protect their accts., etc... So it isnt snooping- since they know upfront that it's going to be monitored. I have to say they have a much better attitude now and it's nice that we are all in the same room with each other! lol They have taught me how to play some internet games.
They were warned if they gave out info on the net again I would be chopping fingers off and I dont think they want to be known as Nubs and Stubs!!
I would make up an email account to spook her. This could easily happen anyway. These kids don't understand how dangerous these myspace accounts can be. Those accounts can be seen by any predators, etc. I would email her and act like I was trying to pick up on her, showing a much older age and maybe a little personal information like "I liked the way you left such and such school the other day." A lot of them post their schools on there too. Scary. Use a hotmail account that you make up and see what happens. I think you also have to start a myspace.com site too, but anybody can do that...much like hotmail. See if THAT doesn't stop her myspace spot.
Or, I would just keep snooping and keep things in check. Sometimes you just gotta know.
I also like Conni's idea. Like usual...
I typed a long reply, and when I went to post it, I got an error message. It happened last night, too. Feona??
That happened to me yesterday, and i just hit the back button and my message was still there, so I clicked on "post this message" and it went through successfully.
I've had that happen a couple times the last couple of days, too. Not every time. But several times, I haven't been able to post when I have tried.
Well, based on my dd, I'm not sure I would use scare tactics that personal, such as seeing her leave the school, because my dd would not get over that and when I came clean that it was me, I think it would just be a mess that I would do something to frighten her like that and I'm not sure how the trust issue would be after that.
I do however think you are completely entitled to know what is going on with your children and the internet. I don't think anything on there should be personal and secretive. My dd is nine, and we have our one and only computer in the living room. She knows that there everything is open, and when she is old enough for an e-mail account of her own, that too will be checked occasionally and at my own discretion, with her full and complete knowledge. I believe the internet is too dangerous to give kids or teens privacy in that aspect of their life. I won't listen in to her phone conversations or read her diary (unless serious reasons give me reason to), but the internet will always be fair game with no secrets. As long as you are up front about that, you are not breaking her confidence.
I watched a Dr. Phil episode about My Space and just internet predators in general and it was totally eye opening. I wish every parent was required to watch it.
Our children are just that. They are our responsibility and sometimes that calls for doing things that doesn't make them happy. I think that these days people try to be to politically correct sometimes with raising children and respecting their rights. They are children, our children. Sometimes parents forget just what are children's rights and what are children's privleges. And sometimes doing what is best for the child isn't always what is going to be what the child thinks is best at the time. Being the parent isn't always the easiest thing in the world. But when you love your child, you have to do what is best for their welfare in the long run, not just in the present time. And if that means not giving them all the privacy in the world, then maybe that's because children don't need total privacy because they aren't mature enough to know what to do with it yet.
I missed Hiedi's post, and then when I read Adena's I got confused....
Heidi I honestly believe that your trick would backfire. When your dd finds out that you deceived her in that way, no amount of reasoning will cure the pain that she will feel because she has now found that she can't trust you, and will not be able to live it down. I still can't live down the times I tricked my son into leaving the store by pretending to leave without him (when he was 3 -6 years old.) I have told him many times that he needs to come to me if he has any questions. I am his number one resource and I will never tell him any lies when I give him answers. Who do I want him to trust more- his "friends" or his mother?
That's just a risk I would not take with my child's trust. He would be more likely not to confide in me if he was in trouble. As parents these days we cannot afford NOT to be involved in our children's lives, in every aspect of it as possible. The trust that most children naturally have in their parents from early childhood needs to be continuously built on, which in turn will open communication. I am the type that, if I KNOW something is wrong, I drag it out of him (I am like that with my dh, too- not always a good thing ) because it is so important that we know what our kids are into and when they are going astray.
There is so much that could go wrong, and it seems like every generation it gets harder and harder for parents to keep their kids safe. There are so many more dangers out there than when we were kids. Yes, there were probably always dangers, and these days we are more aware than ever of them. But now we live in the electronics age. Where I never had a video game until I was 13, kids now have several video game systems in the home including video game consoles that connect directly to the internet, as well as computers, cell phones with text messaging, video cameras and internet capability, iPods, etc etc etc. These "advancements" have opened up a whole entire universe that never existed when we were kids. We need to be more vigilant than ever now. Dateline is doing an entire series on internet predators.
You hit it on the head for me, Adena. If teens aren't mature enough to vote for government officials, to drink alcohol, and to join the service, then they aren't mature enough to handle many other responsibilities, such as the internet, sex, drugs, driving. Just look at the statistics. Parents say "Oh, my child acts so mature for his/her age," and therefore the child can handle responsibility and doesn't warrant supervision, but they are still just children and they need guidance.
I saw one police detective on the news who said that when you hand a teen an internet capable computer, you hand them the keys to the world. Are they really capable of handling that kind of responsibility?
I just think it's sad how teens "talk" on the WWW without thinking twice about what *could* happen.
It's sad some have to learn the hard way. Some kids don't learn until it "happens" to them. I've taught over 500 teenagers and they *never* think anything is going to happen to them.
Why do you think they bring crashed cars to show teenagers that drunk driving is deadly?
You can talk to kids until you're blue in the face but, sometimes (and I'm not saying every kid)...but, sometimes you have to "prove" your point.
It was just an idea...and many parents have done it to prove their point.
I can't tell you how to deal with your DD, but I can share with you my experience with mine (15 yrs. old) She has a myspace account (as do all of her friends - even the ones whose parents don't "allow" it...they create one at a friend's house and check it there...) She knows I monitor her account, read her comments, etc. AND ALL OF HER FRIENDS' ACCOUNTS, TOO. I spend a few HOURS each week reading all her posts, her friends posts, THEIR friends, etc....(Believe me, you learn a LOT that way!) But our agreement is that she is open with us, and, in return, we promise not to "freak out" over what we see in her friends' profiles, etc. Even Dr. Phil said that a child can't be held accountable for her friends' language, etc. She knows that she has our trust UNTIL. When and if she gives us a reason not to trust her, to suspect (through behavioral changes, etc.) anything, we can and WILL search her room, cell phone messages, etc. It is our DUTY as parents to keep our children SAFE to the best of our ABILITY. This has worked for us SO FAR, but, with teens, things change from day to day. Only you know your own child and what they can handle, and how open you are willing to be. Good luck with this issue. It isn't easy for any of us! {{PRAYERS}} That they ALL grow up safe and healthy
Heidi, I guess I was just a bit surprised that a parent would do that. Although, after thinking about it a bit, it might make sense if a parent had tried everything else and it hadn't worked, so as a last resort... I remember a story about a police officer who did the same thing to a girl that went to a local school somewhere. He did it on his own time, and he actually went to meet with the girl at her soccer game, but he faced a misdemeanor stalking charge, even though he never intended to do the girl any harm, and he told her so. He told her that he was a cop and wanted to teach her a lesson. Maybe it worked.
But I just can't imagine doing that to my son. I don't think it would go over well at all. He never forgets anything. The betrayal would have a greater impact on him than the intended lesson would have. Besides, I think at this point in time (PRE-adolescent) that I have it pretty good with him now, even though he does try to challenge my authority and get away with things (what boy doesn't try to do that with mom?) and I don't want to do anything to screw that up.
I know my DD has a xanga(which is like myspace & aim) and I don't like it but I do snoop once in a while. I've never found anything incriminating thankfully. It's too dangerous to let children do stuff like that on the net without supervision.
My DS's are not allowed to do myspace, instant messaging, chat rooms etc., either. In fact they are locked out of the computer, except for school work, and then it is right under my nose, as the computer is in the dining room. We had a couple of abuses that showed me that it was too much of a temptation.
Older DS installed instant messaging without my permission. I found out when I was online one day and the AIM window popped up, informing him that he had a message. A few minutes later, his cell phone rang. I overheard some girl in Tennesee describing her breasts to him!! He had IM'd his phone number to her!! Needless to say, AIM was uninstalled immediately.
Then one evening, younger DS asked to use the computer for merit badge work for Boy Scouts. Our living room/dining room is all open, so I could see what he was doing from the sofa. So far, so good. Well, I dozed off (hey, I'm old), and when I woke up, I saw him glance at me and quickly change the site that he was looking at. I confronted him, and he is such a terrible liar (thank goodness). I did a 'history' and saw all these inappropriate sites. He said he was "curious". He was, and is still grounded. No TV, video games, movies, etc.. He has school, church and work until further notice, and that's all.
I am really freaky about the internet. I can't convince these guys how dangerous it can be, and how many evil and creepy people are out there. We had an incident in our small town recently where a Mom discovered that her DD was meeting a much older married man, that she had met through myspace. It was obvious that they had been having sex. She went straight to the police, and he is in jail awaiting trial. There was another incident in our state where two high school girls posted nude pictures of themselves on myspace, and because they were under age, they themselves were charged with child pornography.
Just watch that NBC show "To Catch a Predator", and you will see what's out there trolling the internet. my space is like a catalog for pedophiles. I'm just glad that we didn't have internet when I raised my older two DK's.
I think I would sit tight for now and not let your DD know what you found. Just monitor it closely, and intervene if you have to. You might learn a lot. Yes, technically it is violating her privacy, but it is your house, your rules. Your number one job as a parent is to keep your children safe, and children and teens don't have the skills to assess danger. I wish they'd close down that myspace.
Also btdt with the undesirable friend when DD was a teenager. This girl was very promiscuous and emotionally needy. She had two alcoholic parents. I didn't like DD hanging around with her because I was afraid she'd be judged by her friend. Also, because the friend was so boy crazy, she was totally unmotivated in school. However, the more I said against the girl, the closer they got. Finally, when they graduated, they went their separate ways and lost touch. My DD went on to college, married and is an ER nurse. Her friend has had a very sad and dysfunctional life these past sixteen years due to bad choices that she made. I guess old Mom is right once in a while. LOL!
|
Members
