Questions about AFTER a car accident.....
Moms View Message Board: General Discussion: Archive June 2006:
Questions about AFTER a car accident.....
I was hit last Wed. Nothing terribly serious. I was the only passenger, kids were home safe. The other driver was at fault and ticketed. I declined medical assistance at the scene and of course the next day was feeling pain that I did not think I would be feeling to this extent.
So here is the deal. I have seen the chiropractor, had x-rays yesterday, the car still sits in my drive since driving it home last week.
The other driver has already made a claim w/ his insurance. It is clearly his fault. I spoke w/ their adjustor. She said they will have me set up w/ a rental. She asked if any injuries were incurred, and I told her I saw the dr and had x-rays. She then told me to file a PIP claim w/ my insurance. My company will pay 80% and their company will pay the 20% that would come out of our pocket.
My husband is furious that we have to have a claim at all with our insurance at all. I was told by the sheriff and the dr to call an attorney (I asked the sheriff what do I do if I find out I was hurt afterall--he said call an attorney, I was asked 4 times if I wanted medical attention at the scene).
I have not called my insurance company or an attorney at this time. I have given all the info to everyone involved, so everyone knows my insurance info.
So what do you do? Who do I call next? Any "whatever you do, don't do ---!" help you can tell me?
First of all, soft tissue injuries are not always immediately evident after an accident, so it's not surprising that you thought you wouldn't need medical care immediately following the accident.
THEIR insurance should be paying for your medical bills. At the very least, if your insurance company has to pay, then your insurance company will normally subrogate against the other insurance company to recoup what they had to put out.
DON'T sign ANY releases their insurance company may ask you to sign. That will release them from any liability or obligation.
DON'T let them bully you - that's a common tactic.
If they ask you to sign an authorization for release of your medical records, be clear on what exactly you are signing before you do it.
Medical costs will be limited by the policy limits - in other words, if this driver had a maximum policy limit of $5000 for personal injury under the medical portion of his policy, any costs over that, you'd have to get an attorney, more than likely, and file under the Liability portion (?) of his policy.
You also need to know what the statute of limitations is on this claim.
So many things............Ginny could really help with this.............
I do know that Jen was in 2 car accidents as a passenger several years ago, and one of them, our health insurance paid the claims but subrogated against the driver's insurance to recoup the costs. Also, we had to retain an attorney for that one. ALSO, if you end up having to do that, and your insurance company pays the claims and does NOT subrogate against the other insurance company, you are expected to reimburse the insurance company out of any settlement you get, in most cases.
Ginny.................where are you?
BTW Dana, I hope you feel better!
Call me untrusting, but I think you should call your insurance company right away, read your policy to see what you are covered for, then consult an attorney, especially if you don't understand your policy or are unsure about anything.
Remember, the other person's insurance knows exactly what it is doing. I'm the kind of person who needs to be sure and won't take another's word for it, especially when I know they are not looking out for my best interest. I understand about wanting to keep the insurance company out of it because of the fear that your premiums may go up, but since he has already filed a claim with his insurance and a police report has been filed, you don't have much of a choice.
I work for a major insurance company. Call your insurance company and report the accident. That is why you pay premiums - they also act as your advocate in situations like this. At least, a good agent and company will. You may still have to retain an attorney, but make your insurance company and agent do some of the work for you. It's their job.
And, even if you don't report it, they will find out about the accident. They have ways. It might take a year or so, but they usually find out.
OK, Ginny's here. Call your insurance company. IMMEDIATELY!!! Most auto insurance policies have a requirement that you must notify them within a specific period of time after an accident or they won't cover the accident at all. CALL YOUR INSURANCE COMPANY - IMMEDIATELY. DH apparently doesn't understand that you have insurance just for this reason. Your insurance carrier will be able to subrogate (get their money back from) the other driver's insurance carrier if it is the other driver's fault, and from what you say I assume it is. Check your policy, but I know my policy says that if the accident was someone else's fault, my premiums don't go up (Pennsylvania - a "no fault" state).
Do not talk to the other driver's insurance company. You are not required to, and "anything you say can and will be used against you". Believe me. I work with insurance companies all the time.
Definitely see a doctor, immediately. Not just a chiropractor. I know chiropractors can often do a lot of good, but you need an MD diagnosis so that the chiropractor knows what s/he is dealing with. You need a firm diagnosis and a plan of treatment. And you will need a diagnosis from an M.D. for your insurance company and the other driver's carrier.
Get an estimate on the damage to your car, from at least two mechanics. Your insurance company will send an adjuster out to look at your car, who will give an estimate of the cost of repairs. Your insurance company probably has repair shops it deals with, and may offer you a choice - either take it to one of the shops on their list and they will cover it in full except for your deductible, or they will give you a check for their estimate less the deductible and you can take it to any shop you want. But until you report it and your carrier sends out an adjuster, you are stuck.
CALL YOUR INSURANCE COMPANY. I can't emphasize this enough. You do not want to lose your rights to collect on the insurance you have been paying for all these years by a delay in notifying them.
Your insurance company will want to take a recorded statement of how the accident happened. Before you do that, get it clear in your own mind. And, don't sign any releases from your insurance company either until you know exactly what you are signing, and until you have been "made whole" - all medical bills paid, all car repairs done and paid for.
Do you need a lawyer - depends on whether your insurance company treats you well or not, and on whether the other driver's carrier is honest or not, and on the nature and level of your injuries. If, between the two of them, the two insurance companies are paying all your medical bills and car repair, you may not need a lawyer.
The reason for getting a lawyer in auto accident cases is when your injuries are more than just sprain-and-strain and you have severe pain lasting more than a couple of weeks. If you are experiencing just discomfort, even high discomfort at times, but not real pain, and if you heal up completely in a few weeks, then no, you probably don't need a lawyer. When I am speaking of discomfort vs. pain, I mean that on a scale of 1 to 10 with 1 being a mild headache and 10 being you wish you could die because you hurt so much - if your pain doesn't go much over 3, and goes away in a couple of weeks, then you probably don't need a lawyer.
A lawyer should be involved if you have permanent injury and/or experience significant pain and suffering. In a personal injury claim, the lawyer is paid a percentage of the money s/he gets for you. If almost all of your damages are medical bills and car repairs, with not much for "pain and suffering", your lawyer will take a share of the damages for attorney fees and you will have to pay costs for medical records and experts out of your share, which may leave you with not enough to pay your out of pocket expenses. It is only when the award for pain and suffering is significant (in the $20,000 range and up) that it is worth having a lawyer.
If you want to talk more about this, email me through the moderator contact menu on the left, and I will get back to you.
ANYONE WITH FLORIDA EXPERIENCE WITH MOTOR VEHICLE ACCIDENTS SHOULD ADD WHAT THEY KNOW. I don't even know if Florida is a "no fault" state, though I suspect it isn't.
Florida IS a no fault state. At least this is what I was told when a city bus ran into me in October. I called my insurance company immediately and they paid me immediately. They then went after the city to get their money back. It took them 6 months to recover the costs. I received my deductible back when they had settled with the city.
Thanks Ginny. I called before you posted. The adjuster on the other end is really nice and is already saying from the reports they will be 100% liable. However, the other driver is saying the accident happened another way, so is disputing his fault. But his adjuster says the current police report seems to present an accurate picture of the accident.
If the other driver is going to dispute it, it will probably take longer as he will have to go to court and witnesses will testify. His insurance company will probably wait to pay any expenses until the court settles it. I don't know what your insurance will do in that case, if they will wait to see what the verdict is or not.
My dh was once a witness to an accident and had to go testify to what he saw. It was pretty cut and dried.
Do NOT file through your insurance (although you are right to notify them). I was hit recently, and my insurance offered to let me file through them, and have them collect their money from the other company, or go directly through the other company. I went through the other company, and the claim was paid. The only thing is in KS, YOUR ins pays personal injury up to $2K, regardless of fault, so I still had a ton of paperwork to give my ins company. Since the other adjuster is already accepting liability, you should have no problems. Glad you are ok!!
Yvvone, I'm surprised they handled it that way. My grandmom drives for PalmTran, and the county usually pays directly if they are at fault. My ex totalled his car in Palm Beach, rear ending a Suburban, and his insurance company paid out on that claim immediately as well, since all rear end accidents are considered at fault (unless you can prove fraud or carelessness caused you to hit the person).
I was stopped at a red light and the bus hit me from behind (clearly they were at fault). I tried to get a police report but the police refused to write one because it was one week after we were hit by a hurricane. They said in emergency situations they do not have to write a report. Instead they wrote a driver information exchange form. I called my company and they set up an appointment the next day to look at my car. They wrote me a check, after they appraised the damage. They said Florida is a "no fault" state so they would have to settle it with the other insurance company. It did not affect my insurance (no increase in my insurance) and I am told that is normal procedure in Florida. Luckily, my deductible is only $100, so I was responsible for $100 of the appraised damage. I received my $100 back after they settled with the city (6 months later).
I hope you get it all settled quickly Dana--and are feeling better!
No adive-I just hope you're feeling better.Soft tissue damage can be on ongoing pain battle.
Thanks for advice and concern. I'm actually feeling it more tonight than any other past days. Results from x-rays show whiplash (sp?). As my dr stated on a scale of 1-10 it rates about a 3 so not the worst case possible, which is good. On the down side I am now having tingles in my arm, so tomorrow I have an MRI to determine if it is herniated disk or pinched nerve. I don't know if one is better than the other, but dr says I'll be fine w/ time and it will act up from time to time.
Here's the scoop on the claim. First of all, I have spoken w/ their insurance at length, so I guess that was a no no. However, it seems the lady has been giving me info that sounds like she shouldn't be giving. To me, it sounds like she knows what this driver is doing is wrong and she on a personal level can not keep her info silent from me. She stated to me, "according to the police report, our company is 100% liable" she then explained she was still waiting for the drivers statement and she knew he had an attorney. She said niether the driver or attorney would talk to her but that he was making a different claim on what happened. In the meantime, I was on the other line w/ my insurance. I told THEIR insur lady I was on the other line and I would call back...she said you can tell your company what I just told you, they should be made aware of this from the beginning. So on my return call to them, she heard from other guy and is saying we were both moving and it was a sideswipe. So she must hold off on getting me my rental until they can prove or disprove this. But she was still very apprehensive about having to tell me they had to wait. You could just tell she was having a difficult time offering defense to this other driver...she was only doing what her job says. She said they needed to view pictures of the scene to verify. However, I know the police report says there were no photos. My husband however did take photos of all when he drove past to get the girls. So I have pictures. I clearly shows he hit me from behind and no side swipe. She said if I could email them to her, she could probably okay the rental for tomorrow. My husband had a hissy when I asked him to email her. He says they would use the photos against us somehow. I have no idea how, the way I was hit is impossible for us to both be moving. So anyway, agreeing w/ all of you who say "don't talk to their insurance" and my husband, I did not email the photos.
So do you think they are so sneaky they would be telling me all this stuff and then try to real me in to a net so they don't need to pay? She also told me "this guy is well seasoned at this" when I mentioned how surprised I was that he got an attorney and how nice he was at the scene. she stated "he has had 3 claims in the last month" She also said I could warn my insurance company about this. It all just seems so odd.
My adjuster called while I was out, but looks like he will be here in the AM after we set a time. Hopefully that will set everything in action. Can you believe we had to wait so many days before anything could be done? All because the accident report was not avail until the tues after the Wed event.
I am still skiddish about driving now, esp since I had nothing to do with it happening. I was just there. I am just waiting for another ediot to come out and get me. It is such an icky feeling. I will be happy when it wears off, and time will only do that. So far, I have not driven w/ the baby in the car, just DD and her friend or just myself. I've only driven if I had to.
Off to bed now. Hopefully lying down will ease up the ache. Luckily, it is managable.
Thank you again for your help and concern.
Whew! What a mess.
I would lay low and stay out of touch with the other guy's insurance company for a while and let your insurance company do its job. Check your coverage and see, but I think that your premium includes coverage for them representing you in court, if it goes that far and if you have full coverage. As someone said, that's what you pay them for.
Your insurance company might even provide you with a rental. If they do, they will just recoup the cost from the other guy's insurance company.
Good luck and get well!
Lisa is right, check with your insurance company's adjuster to see if your policy covers a rental car (and read your policy before you call your adjuster). If your policy covers a rental car (and not all do - I have a friend who didn't have rental car coverage), they probably have an arrangement with a specific rental company and should be able to give you a claim number so that you don't have to lay out money up front. But your policy may not cover the entire cost - again, read your policy.
I also agree with those who say stop talking to the other guy's adjuster.
Look, the role of an adverse adjuster (on the other side) is to minimize the cost to their carrier. This adjuster may be as nice as pie but her job is to keep from paying out any more than absolutely necessary. And, generally, to be "nice" while she is doing it to get you to agree to or sign something that can later be used to minimize her company's costs. Yes, adjusters can lie, or at least not tell the whole truth. Your adjuster's role is to minimize the cost to your insurance company also, but since she knows that you were not at fault (and the photos you have and that their investigator takes will prove it), she knows she can get the money back from the other guy's insurance - and she knows the other guy is insured.
If it were me, I'd tell your own adjuster everything the other adjuster told you, but realize that your adjuster may not take it all as truth. DH is right, don't email the photos to the adverse adjuster. But, do email them to your adjuster or give copies to the investigator/adjuster who comes out to look at your car. You are almost certainly required by the terms of your policy to cooperate fully with your carrier anyhow, so it doesn't hurt to be cooperative from the get-go. (As for having to wait this long - well, things might have started moving sooner if you had called your insurance company sooner. My carrier had me approved for a rental car within 2 days after I called, long before the police report was ready.)
It does sound like this guy is experienced with insurance claims. As for him getting a lawyer right away - I had an accident on a Wednesday and had a letter from the other driver's lawyer in my mailbox on Saturday. I know, I'm a legal secretary and have worked in personal injury law for many years, but even to me that seemed awfully speedy. But there are a lot of lawyers out there who will push auto accident claims by the hundreds every month, knowing that they will win on enough of them to make it worth their while, even if they lose a lot of them. Thank heaven, I've never worked for that kind of law firm, but they are out there by the hundreds.
Yes, most likely part of what you are paying for in your insurance premium is for your insurance company to defend you if you are sued. Again, read your policy.
Glad you are going for an MRI. I have no serious opinion on whether a pinched nerve or ruptured disk is better/worse because I don't have the medical knowledge. My guess is that a herniated disk would take longer to heal. But either is still what is generally called "soft tissue" injury (which is why you need an MRI to diagnose). I hope you got a claim number from your adjuster and are giving it to your medical providers, so that they will bill your auto insurance carrier.
It is not a nice thing to say, but while I think your dh is over-reacting a bit, I do think you are being a bit too trusting. It comes from being a nice person - when you are a nice person you tend to expect the rest of the world to be nice also. But a little suspicion won't hurt you right now, especially when dealing with anyone representing the other guy, including his insurance company's representatives.
Now, if you get a phone call or a letter from a lawyer for the other guy - DO NOT TALK TO THEM, FOR ANY REASON. If you get a call, give the caller the name and number of your insurance adjuster and your claim number, and nothing more. You are under no obligation to talk to his attorney and definitely should not.
I don't blame you for feeling skittish. I know just how you feel, as does anyone else who has been in an auto accident. At some point you are going to have to start driving again, but if you have no reason to push it my advise is, don't.
Thanks once more. Ginny, I have copied your posts and emailed them to DH. It is so helpful to have someone who can tell you the correct info without any bias or emotions of the topic...not to forget your legal knowledge. You have really helped calm the tension between the two of us w/ your straight forward information.
I will not be talking to the other company any more, but only mine. I sure hope I didn't do something that hurts my case...but I don't know how, I've said nothing that wasn't true. My adjuster should be here today. I will feel better after he has been here. Hoping he can come while DH is home. DH was able to find damage in areas I would have never looked, but sure enough there are large chuncks of paint missing on opposite side of car where the force caused my car to bend. What a huge mess. At least my walet wasn't stolen. Seems there is more mess and worry w/ that type of event.
Hang in there! 
My adjuster told me to go ahead and mail the photos to the other company. He said it will speed things up. Looks like they already know this guy is lying and the photos will put a quick end to his debate. Getting my rental in an hour or so. It won't be my wonderful Camry, but at least it will be a car that is safe. The "other" company said I could go ahead and get my rental even though they are waiting to confirm liability. The lady I was dealing with is out today, so now we are trying to get the photos to another one who can clear it.
I just picked up my rental. It is a Dogdge Caravan. I am so excited to have a van. The only reason I never wanted one was because I loved my camry so much. Small for having kids, but a dream to drive. But oh how nice it was to just pop the stroller into the back of the van! This will be fun to see how it works for us.
Glad to hear you are getting taken care of.
So how are you feeling tonight?
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