Vent about neighborhood kids
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Vent about neighborhood kids
My son has several friends in the neighborhood. While he doesn't play with all of them every day, he plays with someone everyday.
One kid is 2 years older (my son is 9 and this kid is 11) and VERY SPOILED. His mom buys him everything he wants. He rarely ever gets told no and is very manipulative and gets his way. I have seen him in action with his mother as well as my son. In fact, my son has admitted to me that he feels intimidated by him b/c he's bigger and he's so pushy. They are into video games and cards, Pokemon specifically, and like to trade Pokemon on their Gameboys and cards as well. A few months ago, I called a moratorium on trading anything b/c they always got into arguments over stuff. I also had begun to see a pattern where the trades were never fair, and my son was usually the one with the short end of the deal b/c this other kid was so manipulative. So, last week, we allowed them to begin trading again b/c they promised me that they wouldn't get mad or argue over the trades. Well, that didn't last very long. This kid came over yesterday and wanted to get back a Pokemon card that he had traded my son the previous day. This particular card was a very strong card, and in trade he was only willing to part with a weak card. My son stood his ground and said no, and this kid went ballistic. He started hitting him with a Hulk fist (a foam toy shaped like the gargantuous fist of the Incredible Hulk) and calling him a "woman." After the kid left, my son told me about it, and started crying. I told him that THIS is why I don't want them trading. For one thing, there are always fights b/c someone isn't happy with the trade. For another, he now knows how this kid acts when he doesn't get his way. He's a bully- he bullys his mom and he's bullied him. But no more- cuz he didn't let him push him around. So I took him to Wendy's for dinner to let him know how proud I was that he stood up for himself.
Then, again last night, after we got home from Wendy's, he went to play with another friend who is 8. Then a third friend showed up, who is 7, and the 3 of them asked if they could go to the third friend's house to play. I said okay, but then a couple of minutes later my son calls and says he's at the third friend's house but there's no one there. I said, "So there's no adult supervision?" and he said, "They went to return something somewhere and they said they'd be right back." Still not sure I was believeing what I was hearing, I asked "So, how old is the oldest person there?" He said "It's just us. Can we just stay and play inside?" I said "No, it was irresponsible of them to leave you all alone. You will come home." When he got home, I asked him if the second friend was still there, and he said yes, so I called that friend's mother and then she called them and said they could go to her house. UGH!! The "parents" were just leaving when the boys arrived, so they KNEW that the boys were there alone. UNBELIEVABLE!!!
I probably should have called the police on these idiots.
If it wer me--the friendship would be over. The boy is too aggresive and the parents cannot be trusted. I cannot imagine leaving my own children alone let alone leaving someone else kids alone in my house!
I would LOVE to call off the friendships with the kids I am not fond of, but the problem with that is that they all play together. If I tell my son that he can't play with the agressive one, then he will go to someone else's house and he will be there, too. He won't be able to avoid running into the friend that he isn't supposed to play with - they all run around the neighborhood together.
All I can do is pound into my son's mind right from wrong and coach him with all the wonderful examples of bad behavior that have come up over the past couple of years.
Good grief! Where to start?!? First of all, I'd have been in that kid's mom's face about her kid going ballistic on my child and hitting him. Then he'd never be allowed near my child again. As for the leaving the kids alone, I'd have paid them a visit, too. A 9yo, 8yo and 7yo? Absolutely irresponsible. My child wouldn't be allowed at that kids house anymore either. Hugs to you and your son. Good for him for standing up to that kid and for calling you about a situation he knew wasn't right. 
Its tuff when all the kids play together and he can't avoid him.I wouldn't allow one on one with this kid anymore.As long as you're son knows right/wrong he'll be o.k.Once the other kids realize he's a brat and no fun they will avoid him also.My DD is just starting to wean out the ones that are more of a hassel.The less I said something the more she found out on her own.
As for the nitwit parents who leave young children alone I would NEVER let you're son go there again.
I'm horrified over this story. :0 The fact that this kid felt comfortable enough to do this in your home shows that he has no regard of boundaries, and no one is exempt from his temper no matter where they are. The next time he comes over, I would sit him down and lay out the rules.
#1. He's not to touch your son ever again.
#2. No more trading.
#3. You will be happy to have him as a guest but he will show everyone in your home respect.
And you can do it in a positive way and not in front of everyone else. And smile at him afterward to let him know you still like him even if you don't. Chances are, he will be more respectable of you than his own mother. If he says anything to his mother, explain nicely to her what happened. If she doesn't like it, too bad. It's your home and your rules. I truly believe if nothing is said to him then he will do it again. JMHO. Where's Ginny? She's sooo good at stuff like this. ((( hugs))) And good for your son for standing up to him!
Sounds like you have handled it the best it can be handled. I agree, you can't keep your son away from this kid - he is part of the neighborhood and will be at other houses even if he doesn't come to your house or your son go to his. So prepping your son on how to deal with him, and praising your son when he handles a situation well, is really all you can do - along with again putting a moratorium on trading. My experience with my boys is that the kid who initiated the trade usually had a motive that involved getting the better of another kid, and I didn't allow it outside the family either - and carefully monitored it inside the family, as my middle son was very manipulative and very plausible when he proposed something.
(I just noticed Sandy's comment. No, I'm not all that good with "this", it's just that I've lived through it, tried a lot of different methods, and as my sons became adults got feedback from them on what worked best from their perspective. It doesn't take a lot of smarts to just live longer and learn from experience. I have made my share and then some of mistakes in child raising - I was just lucky enough to not have any of them come back and bite me in the butt badly.)
As for speaking to the bully, or to his mother, I don't know. You are the best judge of whether it will make any difference. You can certainly monitor and control what happens in your house and your yard, and I imagine you will do that very carefully for quite some time. You might also relate this incident to some of the moms whom you know well and whom you think share your values, so they can watch out for their kids. If they also start monitoring, and prepping their kids, eventually the kids themselves may be able to handle this situation as a group.
I think you should be very proud of your son for calling you when he found himself in another kid's home and with no parental supervision. That was very responsible behavior on his part, and shows that what you've been trying to teach him has sunk in well. It took a lot of courage to be the one to call his mom in that situation, especially because he was probably pretty sure it would play out with you telling him to come home. That was very mature of him, and he should get another Wendys for that. Certainly rewarding him for doing the right thing and for handling a difficult situation well will make him more likely to do the same next time a situation arises.
(I always believed a little bribery, a little guilt, and a lot of manipulation were very helpful in child raising.)
Lisa, I related your story to Scott, who says - that's a great kid, I'd be very proud to have a kid like that. For a 9 year old to be so mature is remarkable.
Thought you should hear that from a male who understands being a rebellious kid (and he sure was).
Wow, thanks Ginny! Maybe a lot of what I have taught him has come from me just being totally paranoid about where he was. I started this about 3 years ago when he went to play at a new friends' house and then he left and went to someone else's house. So when I called looking for him at the house where I thought he was, he wasn't there and I totally panicked. They told me where they thought he went, and I went there to get him and sat down with him for a long talk. There may have been a couple of times when he failed to tell me where he was going, and I grounded him each time. Now it's almost like second nature for him to let me know where he is going.
As for my requirement that there are adults there, this isn't the first time that has happened either. He was at another friend's house (a friend he doesn't see that often anymore) who was 10 at the time, and his mom had left to go to the store. My husband had been home and I had been at the store getting something for dinner, and when I went to get my son on my way home from the store and I found out that there wasn't any adult at home, I had another talk with my son about how his friend's mom was supposed to be responsible for him while he was at her house, and she failed to follow through on that responsibility, and how if we left him at home alone we would be breaking the law- that's how important it is for us to be at home and be responsible for him in case something happened.
It may sound like we never have kids over to our house, but we have on several occasions. Earlier this month we had a real warm day and I had 10 kids over here playing in the sprinkler and having water fights. I serve up lots of cold drinks and occasionally chips or cookies, but I can't afford to allow the kids to all get used to getting treats here. It may just be that I AM more attentive and a bit more strict as far as what I will allow that makes the other kids think it's more fun at other houses where supervision is more lax. *sigh*
I am still considering talking to the mom of the bully kid. I have decided to talk to him the next time I see him regardless, but it has been my experience with parents in general that talking to them changes nothing, so I am hesitant to waste my breath any further and just handle the kid myself. She is a single mom, never married the boy's dad and then got pg with her dd by another guy whom she was not married to and then he split. So she is raising 2 kids all by herself. She has a day job that requires her to spend evenings on the computer and she is going to school as well. She used to live in the house across the street from me with the dad of her dd when he split and she couldn't keep the house so she moved to a rental house about 5 or 6 blocks away. Her son rides his bike over here almost every day, and then asks for rides home. When I quit giving him rides, he calls his mommy and she comes to get him. That is how much she caters to him.
Today my son and I had a "Just Mommy and Me Day" where I spent all my time with him. I picked him up from school and took along a baseball bat and ball and a couple of basketballs. We spent an hour and a half shooting hoops and throwing baseballs. (How do you play baseball with only 2 people?) Then we came home, had dinner (spaghetti), and played Monopoly. (Again, with 2 people it's boring.) But we have had fun. Now we are going to look on ebay to see what Pokemon Gameboy games are going for.
And yes, you are right- he did know that I wouldn't have allowed him to stay at the friend's house with no adult supervision. I know this b/c he didn't protest when I told him to come home, as he has been challenging me a lot lately, but not that time. I did thank him for calling me, too.
We would have stayed at the school and played longer, but it started to rain and we were under a tornado watch this afternoon. We still had fun, though, and I got some exercise, which is always good. I think we will make a habit of doing a lot of things together this summer so that he doesn't feel the need to play with all the other kids throughout the summer.
What? The 11 yo can't ride his bike a few measly blocks home? *rolls eyes!* 5-6 blocks on a bike is nothing!
When Sarah was about 4-5, the neighbor girl was at our house (I think), and then went to another girl's house, without telling her mom. She was 5-6 at the time. Anyway, she was "missing" for a short time and when her mom figured out where she was, she was mad and grounded the girl for a day. The grounding of the neighbor kid, still had an effect on my child, since M couldn't come to our house that day. Sarah and M always wandered between our 2 houses, in the summer.
Anyway, I did have a talk with my daughter too, explaining that it's not a problem to go to M's house or A's house (the other little girl), but that she had to let me know she was changing houses! She was really good about it!
Alas, then we moved and she didn't have a next-door friend anymore! Of course, I didn't either. I was good friends with the mom, who lived next door!
Yes, you should be proud! You are raising a very responsible boy!
I can't believe anyone would leave 7 and 8 yr olds home alone, especially someone else's child! One day last week, my neighbor decided to leave her 11 yr. old ds in charge of her dks and mine. My oldest ds, who is 8, knew to come home. When he came home and told me, I was so upset. I happened to be friends with this neighbor. I called her and told her not to leave my dks with just her 11 yr. old in charge. Next time she needed to leave, she should just send my dks home! Both my dks know that if I find out they are there unsupervised, they will never play there again. So, they know to come home. It sounds like your ds knows your rules and follows them, which is great.
As far as this boy that is bullying your ds, there isn't really a way to avoid it. I think you are doing the right thing by talking to him on how to handle it. However, I would sit down and establish rules for your home. I do this with all the dks in our neighborhood. They are the same rules that my dks have to follow. If there is any name calling, fighting, disrespect, they go home. It is as simple as that. I have been know to send dks home too. My ds proudly says I am the meanest mom in the neighborhood. But, who's house does everyone play at, OURS!! We have a boy next store, that is known to bully and munipulate. He is a few years older then most of the other dks in the neighborhood. I have talked to my ds a lot about how to handle him. I also told my ds that he doesn't have to play with this boy. I guess for some reason(because he is our neighbor?) he felt like he had to play with him. Once I told him that he didn't have to, he hardly plays with him at all. Unfortunately, there are bullies out there. I think what you are doing, giving him the tools to handle it, is the best thing you can do!
UPDATE:
About a week after my original post, this kid with the bully-type personality came back over to play. They said their apologies, and I had a short talk with the kid and told him that there will be no more trading, and that he needs to treat people, my son in particular, with more respect and think about how what he says and does affects others before he does anything. Otherwise, he may find that he has a hard time keeping friends. The whole time I am speaking, the kid just keeps saying, "Okay - Okay - Okay - Okay" I mean, I hardly get the sentence finished and he is already saying "Okay" so it is apparent that he isn't really listening - he just wants to make me think he is so that I will get it over with already.
So, they played for about an hour. They were outside playing dodgeball in the back yard with about 2 other kids. I had warned all the boys about hitting eachother in the private and in the face as well as windows and doors. (Our backyard is rather small.) After about an hour all the boys left and my son came in stark raving mad. I said, "What happened?" He said, "(The bully kid) hit me in the face with the ball and then started calling me names again! I DON'T want to be his friend anymore!"
So that was it for about a week and a half. Then yesterday my son said that he wanted to call him and make up with him again. I said, "What about all those other times he got mad at you and hit you and called you names? I thought you said you didn't want to be his friend anymore." He said, "But if we make up I can give him one more chance." As it happened, the kid called here today, and my son answered the phone and as I stood in front of him my son was the first to apologize and make up.
So my husband and I went around and around with our son about this for about an hour today trying to get him to see that he deserves a friend who is going to treat him with respect and that this kid doesn't deserve any more chances. How may more times is he going to end up giving the kid "one more chance" anyway?
But as it would happen, as I have read that Ginny knows, the more we criticized his "friend," the more determined he was to defend him. Now he wants him to spend the night tonight at our house. I am so angry and frustrated I don't want to even look at this kid, much less allow him in our house for the whole night. As I am on the phone with my son listening to him ask me if this kid can come over, I am hearing the kid in the background telling my son what to say and what to ask. I SO want to say NO - but my only reason for doing so is that I DON'T LIKE THIS KID. If my son is going to give him "one more chance" how can I support that?
I'd tell my son ok he can come over but cant spend the night im going to comporomise with u and work with u in giving him one more chance. but he has to be at our house when u play wiht him and that he cant spend the night till he has earned respect for u and our family. He has to learn our rules in our house. that way the kid can maybe have a different perspective of what kind of kid he is and see that u are trying to work with him ... give ur kid a learning experience in life so to say.
When this happened to my son I just flat said you are not playing with that boy ever again in your lifetime and then stuck with it. Sure, the kid is just across the street, but I don't care. And, sure it broke up the cute little neighbor kid gang, but really, getting him away from that scene was the best thing. It's so much nicer to have more control over who he plays with because playtimes have to be arranged vs. the constant coming and going of neighborhood kids. And once I did it other neighbors did it to, with this kid or that kid or even my kid. I mean we were just allowing these kids to play because it was easy since they were right outside the door, but in reality, all of the parents were uncomfortable with one or more other kids, too. If they knew each other at school (which they don't because we are all in different private schools) they would never be friends with each other. It's been several years since this happened and the only regret I have is that I didn't cut it off sooner.
I mean why should YOU have to put up with this kid? You know your son wants to, but why do YOU want to have him in YOUR home?
It's not always a bad thing to give someone another chance, and that trait in your son is very admirable.
BUT this kid is clearly a manipulator, and he is manupulating your son. Your son is young, naive and doesn't see this.
So, while you don't want to make this kid more desirable to your son as a friend, you also don't want to keep letting your son put himself in the same situation with this kid, over and over and over.
My opinion - the kid's not going to change. He will continue to manipulate your son. He will continue to bully him and be mean to him. Until you put a stop to it.
I agree with Mommmie at this point.
My concern is how you are going to keep the boys apart without keeping your son away from all the other kids in the neighborhood. And that by telling your son you forbid him to be with this other boy, you are going to make your son more defensive of him. Most importantly, unless you keep your son by your side 24/7, how are you going to keep him apart from this boy - especially when you have made his company more desirable in your son's eyes, by your son wanting to give him another chance, and defending him?
I do very much understand your concerns and your husband's, and think it is great that the two of you are in agreement on this issue. But do you think the hour you spent trying to convince him did any good - or just made him more determined to try to give this boy another chance?
Again, I do thoroughly understand your wish to protect your son by keeping this boy out of his life. I just don't think it's going to work. You can set limits - such as no overnight visits, no trading, and only being with this boy when he is part of a group. But think about it - how are you going to keep them entirely apart, especially if they go to the same school or share other activities? Better to help your son develop better discernment about how he selects friends by praising those friends who treat him nicely and keeping your mouth shut about the boy he wants to defend.
Your son has already seen how this boy can behave and has chosen to not spend time with him, even though it didn't last. My hope would be that as your son continues to do what he knows to be the right, Christian, loving thing, this boy will continue to show his true colors and your son will eventually run out of patience and forgiveness. The alternative, to forbid him the boy's company, can cause your son to resent you and dh, both for issuing the orders and for not allowing him to live out the kind of forgiving behavior you have probably praised in others.
I also think it is better to allow children to make some mistakes while you, the parents, are around to help heal the pain and pick up the pieces. If your son doesn't have the opportunity to learn how to judge people for himself by making some poor judgments and learning from them, how will he be able to make such judgments when he is an adult and you can no longer forbid him to be with certain persons?
I know I am the minority here...But I say do not allow the boy to play with your son. His behavior is unacceptable. Do you want this type of child influencing your son? We had a similar situation in our neighborhood. Our children were forbidden to play with a boy that swears and hits. He was given several chances and would not clean up his act. My kids do not miss playing with him and they still play with other kids in the neighborhood. I believe the other kids were also told to stay away from this boy. Yes, it is sad for him but he is just too out of control. Kids have enough to deal with at a young age. Why allow them to be friends with a bully?
Just my opinion.
{{{hugs}}} This is really a tough situation. I think it will be really hard to forbid him to see this boy. Although, I know you would like to, and I don't blame you. Since he lives in the neighborhood, and they all play together, I just don't see how you could stop him from playing with him. I would suggest monitoring them when they are together, especially since you know how this boy behaves. There is no reason why you shouldn't step in, and send him home when he starts treating your ds badly. Is your ds wanting to play with him because there isn't anyone else around? Is there another boy that isn't in the neighborhood that you can arrange playdates with? Even though it will be hard, I would not bad mouth this boy to your son. However, I would try and encourage other friendships. It must be hard for you to see your ds treated this way. Hang in there. Hopefully, he will soon realize this boy isn't worth his time and energy.
Thank you all for the input and words of encouragement. I realy do appreciate it.
What bothers me the most is that I don'tknow if my son has the self-confidence to stand up to this kid when I can see so clearly that he is being manipulated. It's like he is drawn to this kid like a magnet or some other inexplicable force. I know he stood up for himself once, when he didn't give him the Pokemon card he wanted. But I have seen other instances of this kid being mean to my son when it isn't even my son he is mad at- he just redirects his anger towards my son probably because he is younger and physically smaller and weaker and because my son has allowed it to happen thus far. My son has been bullied before in 1st and 2nd grades by another kid in his class. Finally, they split them up this past year for 3rd grade, so he didn't have to deal with him. I think that time apart helped him regain some of his self confidence, but I have my doubts as to how strong he is at this point.
I do agree that the hour we spent trying to reason with our son and get him to see what was happening did nothing to help us progress towards what we were hoping for. I took some time last night to calm down, and I talked to my mom on the phone. I had been in this exact situation when I was a little older than my son, and my conversation with my mom helped me remember how it was all eventually resolved. My parents knew that they had to let me find out for myself what kind of friend that one girl really was. I eventually did, and I went to my parents and said, "You were right."
So I sat down with my son and very calmly related to him what had happened to me. I told him that I am giving him fair warning right now, and I can absolutely guarantee that it will happen again. This kid may be a sweet as pie for a few weeks, but it will happen again and he will get the brunt of this kid's anger when something doesn't go his way. Then I told him that when he finds out what kind of person this kid is, don't come crying to me. Just come to me and say, "Mom you were right." And I gave him a hug and told him through my tears that I wouldn't be so worried if I didn't love him so much and want to protect him.
{{{Lisa}}} I think you've done all you could do to show your son what kind of boy this neighbor is. Now it's up to your ds to learn for himself but at least he has had some kind of warning and knows that you'll understand when he doesn't want to be friends with this particular boy anymore. It's hard to watch our children when you know they'll be hurt but some things a child has to learn for himself and you've done everything you can.
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