Sahm
Moms View Message Board: General Discussion: Archive April 2008:
Sahm
Sorry if I get to rambling but its just something that has been bothering me.I am a stay at home mom and have been now for 13 years I have 4 beautiful Children and a wonderfull husband (sometimes) but for the past few months now I feel like I am lost like everyone is passing me by or not noticing me. I have been trying to find a part time job while the kids are at school but when you tell them you haven't been working in 13 years they kinda frown on that and usually results in not being hired. I would like to find a job but then I get a little nervous I get to thinking I haven't worked in so long am I going to handle it and then I get scared and hubby tells me dont worry about it you don't need a job but when money gets tight and I feel like its my fault if I had a job maybe it wouldn't be so bad and I feel so guilty and hurt. I try to explain it to dh and he says that I souldn't feel that way but thats the end and nothing is never said. I have tried talking to my mom about it because she was a sahm all her adult years and she tells me to throw myself into my home which I did but as I am cleaning I realize thats all I am good for is to clean up after 5 other people who should know by now that they can pick up after themselves. So I have tried and tried talking to them only for it to go in one ear and out the other. I don't mind doing laundry, making beds and vaccuming but when I go into a room and see a pile of wadded up papers and garbage pilled up or toys all over the place I get so frustrated and get the feeling of thats what they think of me if ohh Mom will just pick it up. So as I was sitting at home today by myself that starting tomorrow anything left on the floor is going to the garbage I don't care what it is or who it belongs to its garbaged. If its something importand another will not be bought in its place. Thats the only thing I can think of to do. But I just want to know how to get past this feeling of unworthyness or I dont know it just hurts.
Yes, it does hurt. Do you remember ever reading news articles of moms going on strike? What you describe is just why.
As for your dh telling you that you "shouldn't feel like that", I think that is a terrible thing to say. You feel what you feel, and telling you to change your feelings is dismissive of the genuineness of your feelings and your ownership of them.
Now, as to throwing things in the garbage - no, I wouldn't do that. What I would do is put the toys in a bag and lock them in a closet or the garage, and you get them back in a week IF you don't leave other toys lying around. If you leave other toys lying around they get added to the bag, and then it's two weeks. Garbage and papers on the floor will be put on your bed. If you dump them on the floor again, they will go on your bed under the covers. If you dump them on the floor again, you will spend the weekend in your room with your garbage.
I see by your profile your kids were 12, 9 and 6 when you joined. The 9 year old should be setting the table before dinner and clearing it after dinner. The 12 year old should be loading and unloading the dishwasher (if you have one) or helping to wash and dry dishes. And the 12 year old should be learning how to cook, real food. The 9 year old could also begin to get cooking lessons.
The 6 year olds should be picking up their toys, putting their dirty clothes in the hamper, hanging up their wet towels, and quite probably bringing down the wastebaskets from the bedrooms and bathrooms and emptying them every day or two.
Unfortunately, it is important to start early in training kids to share in the work of keeping a home reasonably neat and welcoming, and you are starting late. So I suggest you make a list of what you want to be able to expect from your children, and when you are satisfied with the list, hold a family meeting, pass out the list and post it on the refrigerator, AND STICK TO IT. It won't be easy to stick to it. They will whine; they will not do their chores; they won't do their chores properly. So you have to have a list of penalties that goes up with the list of chores. And, of course, before you hold a family meeting, you and dh will have to agree that this is what will be done and he will have to support you.
Yes, you are home all day. But, as I told my children, my mom didn't raise me to be anyone's maid. And if your children don't learn the skills of home-making now, what will they do when they leave home?
I started working when my youngest was 7, and by the time he turned 9 I was a single working mom. My sons were, at that time, 9, 10-1/2, and 15. Here's what they did.
Each boy was responsible for his room. I didn't make a big deal of neatness, but no food in the room, and keep a clear path from the bed to the door in case of fire. If your dirty clothes don't get into the laundry basket, they don't get washed. (My middle son didn't believe me, and one morning he said 'Mom, I don't have any clean underpants.' I asked 'where are the dirty ones?' 'On the floor.' 'Well, you have a choice - wear dirty underpants or no underpants. Either way, you need to get ready for school.' I don't know what he decided, but all of his dirty clothes got into the laundry basket ever after.)
By the time the youngest was 11, each boy prepared supper/dinner once a week. Each had been taught how to use the washer and dryer, and were responsible for their own laundry. They took turns washing dishes (no dishwasher). They took turns cleaning the bathrooms. They took turns vacuuming and cleaning the living room and dining room. They all learned how to sew on buttons, mend a tear, and hem pants. When the middle boy decided he wanted to wear all-cotton shirts, he learned how to iron all-cotton shirts.
As for getting a job - are there any temp agencies in your area? What kind of work did you do? Could you maybe take a training course to bring your skills up to date? Is there some place you can volunteer for a specific number of hours a week to re-build skills and learn new skills, and after 6 months ask for a reference?
I don't know how you get your dh to pick up after himself, except maybe as being a good example to the kids when you start the new program. You should try to get dh to understand that you know you are home all day and can do a lot of the things you want the kids to start doing, but you feel like all you are is a maid, a housekeeper - and, you want your kids to learn what it takes to keep a house clean so they will be able to take care of themselves when they leave home. (Because my middle son knew how to cook and shop, when he was in college he shared an apartment with 3 other boys - he did the shopping and cooking and they did all the other chores, and he thought that was a fair trade.)
Here's some of what could go on your list:
All children - keep garbage and trash picked up in your rooms; put away toys; dirty clothes go into the hamper; each makes his/her own bed; the older two put their clean clothes away after they are washed and folded. Don't leave toys, clothing, school stuff in the main part of the house or it will be confiscated for a specific period of time.
The older two - help with dishes, table setting, table clearning, putting away groceries. Take turns going shopping with mom and learn what goes into preparing a shopping list and deciding what to buy. Start learning how to fold clean clothes and eventually how to do laundry. Do the yard work or at least some of it. Start making your own lunches the night before, and start learning how to cook simple foods. Learn how to thoroughly clean a bathroom, and be responsible for or take turns sharing the responsibility for the bathroom they use. Vacuum the upstairs hall, their own bedrooms, and maybe the living and dining room at least once a week.
SAHM = Stay at home MOM
not stay at home maid!
I agree with Ginny about the chores. I am a SAHM but I have other interests than doing chores all day long. We are all responsible in keeping up with the house.
My children are 11 & 13. They have had chores since they were 4 or so.
My 13 year old makes a lot of meals. My son has started cooking also.
They are responsible for folding laundry, putting away their own laundry, putting dishes in the dishwasher, putting dishes away, taking garbage out, cleaning their bathroom & their bedrooms, etc.
They each have a daily chore list (so do I). It takes everyone less than an hour to complete their chores and then we can persue our hobbies/activities.
I am proud that they both know how to run a household. I did not know how when I was their age (or even when I moved out on my own). It is something that will serve them well.
I think it is easy to get lost when your day is focused on your family. You need to figure out what makes YOU happy and find a way to make time for that. I am happy when I am either working on a DIY project or working in my studio. I make time every day to do one of those things. My family jokes that it is my therapy. Reality is--it IS my therapy. 
You are worth it! (((hugs)))
I am sitting here crying I really thought it was just me and I really thank you and I am going to take all suggestions and use them and stick with them. Things have got to get better or I will loose it. Your ladies are something special to me I may not post alot but you all truely are.
Marie, you don't have to post often to have something worth saying and listening to, and responding to. And, you are in a place where many of us have been at one time or another.
Remember, your dh has to be fully on board. You need to convince him first so that the two of you present this to the kids. If he asks you why, here are some reasons. I don't like the way I feel about myself, I feel that everyone thinks of me as the person who will always be around to pick up after them so they don't have to do anything to pick up after themselves or help. I'm not happy with the way things are and I believe if we can change things I will be a lot happier. Our children need to learn how to take care of themselves, and how to participate in all of the work it takes to make a family and make a home.
And, your kids are almost certainly going to give you a hard time. They won't see any reason why things should change from having no responsibility and no chores to having responsibilities and chores - and I can understand that. I'd sure love to have someone who picks up after me, fixes all my meals, takes care of my clothes, makes my lunch (and takes me to school/work if I miss the bus). Who wouldn't? That means that they are going to whine, fuss, and try not doing things properly to show you that it will be easier for you to keep on doing the chores rather than making them do some of the work. You'll have to be tough, and consistent. You and dh will have to think up a list of escalating disciplines (deprivations of one kind or another) for when the kids don't do what they are supposed to, or give you hard time (and I do mean when, not if).
When it was my middle son's turn for the first time to clean the bathroom ... well. I had told him what to do, and he spent about 20 minutes and said he was done. I looked at it, and said no, you have to use cleaner on the tub - all of the tub, not just the bottom. You have to wipe the outside of the tub and the toilet and both sides of the toilet seat and lid, and the toilet tank and lid. You have to clean all of the sink, and the faucets, and wipe down the outside of the cabinet. You have to first dust-mop the floor to get up the dust and cat hair, and then mop it. And wipe the window sill. And get the hand marks off the doors. And clean the mirror. So, back again for another 20 minutes. And another inspection. And another list of what wasn't done properly. It took about 4 hours for him to clean the bathroom properly, what with 20 minute stints of not cleaning, inspections, lists of what wasn't done, complaining, and over and over. I could certainly have done it a lot faster myself, and with a lot less aggravation. But, the next time it was his turn, he spent a good half hour the first time around, and only had to go back once to finish up what he had missed. And the third time, he got it right on the first go-round, and ever after. (This is the same kid who learned the hard way to put his dirty clothes in the laundry basket if he wanted clean clothes.)
You will be told you're mean. You will be told "none of the other kids", "all the other moms" (neither of which will be true). You will have to inspect and make them go back. And you will have to discipline so that they know you mean it. My guess is that it will take one to three months of aggravation all around before they get the message completely and get with the program.
And don't forget praise and rewards. When your six year olds make their beds every morning for a week (never mind that you could have made it better and neater), that should get noticed, praised, and appreciated.
Oh, and don't be a perfectionist and don't go around correcting little oversights. By this I mean the idea is that each kid make his/her own bed, not that they make it as perfectly as you will. If the sheets are reasonbly straight, the pillow is where it belongs, the blankets are relatively even, the spread is relatively even, and no junk or clothes are piled on the bed, that's good enough. You can teach them about hospital corners later on, or show them how to do it faster and easier, after they have been doing it themselves for a while. If clean clothes are bunched in the drawer instead of put away neatly and smoothly, the kid will wear wrinkled clothes until he/she learns how to do it right. If the child does a reasonably good job, overlook the little things and don't, don't, don't go around putting the finishing touches to the chore after them. That will just encourage them to leave more and more for you to finish up. Either make the child go back and do it right (vacuuming the living room) or live with little misses when they make their beds or clean their rooms, unless you want to keep on being the maid. The goal is to have the child learn how to do things for him/herself, not necessarily to have them do it in just your way.
And when they all finally get with the program and you have a week of everyone picking up after themselves and doing what they are supposed to do, fix a meal that is a treat for all concerned, and say that you are doing it in appreciation of their behavior. No, you shouldn't treat for every little thing, but remember, one of the things you don't like is that everything you do is pretty much taken for granted and not appreciated unless you happen to not do it. (That is something I really, really, really hated - when my husband would say something like "you didn't do thus and so" after I'd spent the day taking care of a couple of sick kids, but never ever noticed or commented when I did all the thus-and-so stuff day after day after day.) One of the valuable lessons your kids (and your husband) will learn from this is just how much you do, day after day, and by having to do some of it themselves I would hope they'd have a better appreciation of what you do. Personally, I hate being taken for granted, and try really hard to not do it to anyone else. The son who is living with me right now tends, because of his schedule, to run the dishwasher and empty it about 10 times to my 1, and I have told him, more than once, that I notice it AND appreciate it. He says "just doing my job", but I notice that he smiles.
And I very much agree with Yvonne. Even if you don't find a job, find something you like to do, whether a hobby at home or something away from the house - something that gives you pleasure and a feeling of accomplishment - and do it. You need, we all need, to have some things in our lives that we do just because we enjoy them. They don't need to be "useful" (though sometimes they are), they don't need to be something someone else thinks you should do - they should be what you enjoy, what gives you pleasure. It might be something as simple as taking an hour or two a couple of times a week to go to a park or beach or museum and just enjoy what you see. It could be volunteering in a program that does something you think is important to do. It could be taking a class, at the local library or community college or on-line. It should be for you, because believe me, Marie, you're worth it.
Im still fighting with our 13yr DSD to clean her rm..Im gonna try putting the stuff on her bed ( I did this one time) then next under the covers then under the sheets ...Im ready to take her bed down and make her sleep on the floor..she has a bunk bed..she uses the top bunk to throw clean clothes up there that she doesnt want to hang up..We are on spring break now...she has been in that rm everyday for a few hrs...its looking a hole lot better. I need to crack the whip with her..Im a pushover with her..shes our baby but its getting HARD for me to walk into that room..she has 3 older sissters and they NEVER had their rms this BAD...WAKE UP MOM!!! Thats for me no one else!!!
Im gonna play the mean MOM today and stick to it.
We are going to get this rm clean!!!
Ditto Ginny...and Yvonne...and though Melanie did not post to this particular thread, I give her kudos because her Love and Logic approach really keeps her kids towing the line.
All the dittos aside, I guess I made a huge faux pas somewhere long ago, because my girls were/are both total pigs and it wasn't until Jules had Madison and became a mom herself, that she abandoned the *miss piggy* existence. And Jen is still a pig at 23 (living @ home again, trying to decide whether or not to go back to school, and in which field now). So even though it irritates me to no end, I just keep her door closed and insist she keep her junk in her room and keep the common areas of the house clean. Which is working.
I taught, I trained, I had consequences, I *think* I did the right things to *train* them all when they were young, and the girls seem to prefer a pig's existence. All 4 of mine had regular chores while growing up. They all started doing their own laundry around age 12 or 13. They knew how to run a vacuum cleaner, clean a bathroom, load and empty a dishwasher, mow the lawn, they took turns setting and clearing the table, doing trash duty, feeding pets/litter box duty, dusting furniture...any number of things. But the girls' personal spaces made me want to cringe. For some reason, EVERYTHING ends up on the floor; NOTHING is in its place. It drives me nuts. The kicker?? My mom and sisters told me *I* was the same way then! LOL But that was the only area I was *allowed* to do that, make no mistake.
I've tried many different methods over the last 20+ years to deal with the bedrooms/personal spaces - I listened to every suggestion anyone gave me. And many were of the opinion that since it IS their personal space, then let them live in a mess, as long as their mess doesn't affect anyone else. So I suppose I lost the battle and settled in that regard.
(Re)training your kids to help out won't happen overnight, but excellent suggestions were given and you need DH's support in the way of a unified front and you can make it happen. One thing that was hard for *me* to accept was that kids tend to not clean to YOUR cleanliness specs, and you shouldn't criticize them for it - but encourage and praise. And I found that the right - or better - time for offering those *suggestions* or constructive criticism on how to do the job better was not when they'd just completed it, and were feeling a bit of pride at having done that - but before they did it the next time. And honestly, I don't think anyone in my house has ever cleaned to *my* specs.
As for your self-worth and esteem - again, excellent advice above. Have you attempted to find a job in the school system - as a sub, or working in the school office or cafeteria? Those are optimum part time jobs, IMO, because then you are off when your kids are off. Best of both worlds. I know that *desirable* part time jobs are few and far between, but you have options. And I agree with doing volunteer work or taking a class, just for YOU!
Something that is generally used for *younger* kids is a chore chart. However, I actually made one for Jen last fall when DH and I went away for 2 weeks. I had told her to do this and do that and do the other while we were away and she asked me to make a list so she'd remember it all. Yes, she is a young adult, but apparently this was what she needed, because there was a list for her that covered the dog's needs, the trash dates, and what I wanted done in the house and HER room and bathroom, and every single thing was done. The key for her was the organization. So maybe a chart for your own kids might help.
Karen,
I use a chore list for the kids--AND ME. It helps me keep organized. I used to laugh that my mom had laundry day, shopping day, etc. I have found that I do too. By designating certain days for chores it becomes more of a routine (and seems easier)
Frankly, I didn't (and wouldn't) deal with the personal space issue, other than sanitation/safety rules: no food in your bedroom, keep a clear path from the bed to the door, if it doesn't get in the laundry basket it doesn't get washed, and KEEP THE DOOR CLOSED. If the kid doesn't put clean clothes away properly, the kid suffers the consequences of messy clothes - not my problem. If homework gets lost in the mess of papers on the floor, as long as there is a clear path from bed to door, not my problem. If the bed doesn't get made, definitely not my problem. Just keep your mess (if you are going to be messy) in your area and out of the other areas of the house.
There are enough battles to fight with your kids about how they impact on the areas of the house that affect other people; this is a battle you don't need. And, as Karen notes, it is their personal space, and probably one of the few areas of their lives they *can* control. So if you can, grit your teeth, keep the door closed, and other than a few sanitation/safety rules, ignore it.
I will say that Scott, who has been living with me while he goes back to school, is wonderful in the kitchen and public areas. He loads, runs and empties the dishwasher 10 times to my one, quickly cleans up the few pans that don't go in the dishwasher, vacuums very regularly (after all, they are his dog and cat), is scrupulous about getting trash and waste out promptly - and his "personal space" is usually something of a disaster. But, it's on the second floor and I almost never see it, and it is his personal space.
Hi Marie. My heart goes out to you. I sometimes have felt the same way as you have described. I haven't read through your responses, so please forgive me if any of this is "repeat advice." The lack of understanding, and sometimes even appreciation, for what we do can be disheartening and stressful, especially when that lack of understanding and support comes from our own family.
I used to drive myself batty constantly telling my children to pick up this or put away that, to clean off dishes, bring laundry to the hamper, etc. I also felt so under appreciated. No one seemed to notice that the laundry didn't jump into the hamper then wash itself, that dinner didn't just amazingly appear on the table, and toilets didn't sparkle due to magic. We didn't have a little house elf running around cleaning and cooking all day while I sat on the couch watching talk shows! I finally had enough and called a family meeting. At the first family meeting I explained how I was feeling and why (age appropriately) and then told my kids that I need for them to take responsibility for their things then we talked about consequences. The best part of it was that the kids took part in deciding what their responsibilities were and what the consequences would be if they didn't follow through. I put everything on a typed chore chart, with spaces for each day of the week and a column that explained what the consequence was for each responsibility that wasn't fulfilled. At the end there was a line where "points" (1 for each responsibility) were tallied. The kids were told to choose a 'reward' for reaching a goal total (that I predetermined) The reward had to be free and had to involve family time. At the end of each month each kid's responsibility sheets were tallied and if they met their goal the family received the reward they chose at the beginning of the month. Rewards are usually things like, baking brownies with Mom, painting with the family, going to a museum, etc. The reward is always something that we may not always have a lot of time to do together and it's nice to have the goal at the end of the month to look forward to and it always brings us together as a family.
The kids responsibility charts are revised as necessary, we discuss responsibilities at every family meeting and everyone is always aware of every responsibility/job within our household, from my paying the bills to their bringing home spelling words each week and having their rooms clean by bed time. This system has really worked well for us and basically eliminated the heartache, and headache, for me.
Oh and did I mention that there's no such thing as allowance in this house? Yep, that's right, no allowance! I don't believe that kids should be paid for being productive and responsible parts of a family. I'm not paid every time I scrub a toilet or make dinner, why should they be paid? They earn money in the same way that adults do, by doing work beyond family and personal responsibilities. They have lemonade stands, rake leaves, sell unwanted items at a yearly garage sale, etc. And 50% of all monies must be saved in a savings account/IRA/CD's/Stocks until they are 18 or older, the other 50% can be used how ever they choose. They are being taught personal and financial responsibility, not how to be waited on then given free effortless money.
Now, at 10 and 12 my kids have a longer list of responsibilities and it will continue to grow as they do. They have defined consequences for everything from not bringing school work home to not putting clothes in the hamper each day. For example, if dirty clothes aren't put in the hamper by the end of the day, I take them and put them in a trash bag in the garage for one week (no matter what, even if it's a school uniform) At the end of the week I bring the bag to my son/daughter and they have to wash the clothes that are inside. If they do not put away toys or other personal items before they go to bed, they are taken for one week and I write down what the item was on a paper on the refrigerator. If the item shows up 4 times in two months on my list, it is donated to a local charity the next time it is left out. (School books or items that don't belong to the kids result in a one page hand written report on the subject of the school book or why it's important to care for/respect other people's belongings)Both kids are responsible for vacuuming their rooms, dusting their rooms, emptying trash in 3 rooms of the house, etc. None of their responsibilities are difficult, all are within their age capabilities, and all are helping them to learn how to be responsible as well as teaching them to respect our household and family.
It can be done and it isn't as painful as some may think. Having the defined consequences that the family decided on together eliminated any argument when responsibilities aren't fulfilled. Knowing what they are expected to do, why, and what the result will be has helped all of us. By my kids being more active in their family roles, taking responsibility for themselves as well as some of the household responsibilities has greatly eased things for me.
You are a SAHM but you are also an individual. You need to make sure you don't forget that. Your identity, your self-enrichment, etc should never stop. Make sure that you take time for yourself. I know finding a job after being home is difficult. If you're looking for socialization and enrichment more than monetary gain try volunteering for a cause you feel passionate about (Domestic violence causes, cancer, art, music,etc) or organization representing something you enjoy (Zoos, Senior center class organization, schools, quilters organizations, etc) take a college course, pick up a hobby that you can enjoy with others (like knitting, scrap booking, cards, etc) and join a local meet-up group. The possibilities are endless!
The great thing about volunteering, whether it be with a charity or even your local PTA, is it's a resume builder. You can use this experience on a resume and future employers will see that you continued to enrich yourself as well as stay active in your community. If it's employment you're looking for, you could try starting with churches, entry level office positions, local colleges, banks, or pre-schools.
I know sometimes we sahm's seem to disappear into the back drop, within our families and our communities, but it doesn't have to be that way. You can shine! You can decrease the stress your feeling while increasing the appreciation and reward. I understand how your feeling, please know you're in my thoughts.
~Tina
Marie, I can tell you that my hard work with my sons to make them responsible and make them learn how to do things really paid off. In 1980, when my sons were 19, 14 and 13, I experienced a ruptured lumbro-sacral disk. (Probably the most painful thing I have ever experienced.) The doctor wanted to put me in the hospital in traction for a month (remember, this was 1980), but realized that I was a single mom with kids. So, I spent a month flat on my back on the couch (hardest surface, better than my bed, in the center of things, and with a powder room nearby and the only TV in the house). My sons did absolutely everything. They did the shopping, meal preparation and cleanup, laundry, cleaning, got themselves up and off to school, etc., etc., etc. I didn't have to keep after them, didn't have to give them detailed instructions - just a grocery list and money. They even helped me sit up and lie down again, so as not to strain my back. And the best part of the whole period was that during that whole month - and the next couple of months when I was recuperating on low activity, half-day work, is that whatever disagreements or quarrels they had, they didn't quarrel in my hearing. I have always been so grateful to my sons, and so glad that I had spent the time, energy and aggravation to teach them how to do these things before I really needed them.
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