I have had some boughts of depression, but i thought I had overcome it. My neighbor and friend shot herself 6 weeks ago. My whole core has been shakin. As quickly as my depression comes it leaves. Sometimes I think that maybe she had it right and not wrong. Thoughts that I don't mean come into my mind. Things that logically I know not to be reality. I am not sure what to do or what is the normal reaction. It is like her death triggered something in me. My fascination of control over death and dying. It is like I am two people. One logical side that knows the whys and why nots. So much so that I could probably counsel someone, but then on the other side and part of me is her (my neighbor). Feelings of guilt, sadness, the thought that everyone would be better off. As quickly as the moods come they leave. I like the fact that I can be anonymous here. My thoughts and feelings are almost too dark to share even with my husband. I know, but I don't.

By Pamt on Sunday, March 16, 2008 - 12:02 am:

I think you need to share this with your DH and I think you need to see a counselor ASAP. I am very concerned by what you have posted. Please seek professional help and update as you can. (((hugs)))

By Hol on Sunday, March 16, 2008 - 12:29 am:

Oh Julie, I'm so sorry about your loss. How tragic! I think that what you are going through is part of the normal grieving process. When a shocking and sudden death happens to someone close to us, it brings death up close and personal. Death is normally something that we know exists and is inevitable at some time in our life, but we don't want to acknowledge it or give it space in our mind. Then, when it happens close to us, it forces us to confront it.

You are also very young, and I'm guessing that you have not had that much experience with death. I remember when I was about your age, and I had not yet lost anyone dear to me. My DH was in the military and we were living in base housing. It was at the height of the Vietnam War. There was a young wife whose DH was in Vietnam. She stayed pretty much to herself, and would be seen riding her bike around the housing area. Well, one weekend, we heard that she had made arrangements to have her children spend the night with someone, and she hanged herself in her home. She was about my age at the time. I remember the myriad of emotions that I had, though I didn't know her. I wondered if I could have saved her if I had befriended her. I wondered what was going through her mind, and how deep her pain must have been to do such a thing. I wondered what she was thinking as he planned it. Then, I became focused on the mechanics of her demise; what happens to someone when they die by that manner, etc. It was ghoulish, but it was because I had not had any experience with death at that point, except pets when I was growing up.

Then, when my Dad died (I was 37 and married with two kids), I thought that I would not survive. My Dad was my hero. He was very sick with cancer for several years, so his death was not unexpected, but I still wasn't ready when it happened. I remember taking a week out of work for the arrangements, funeral, etc. I worked evenings at a bank in those days, doing computer work. I worked alone, so if I broke down, there was no one to be disturbed by it. I remember driving home on my first night back to work. A car crossed the center line into my path, and for the first time in my life, I didn't care. I didn't think about my little DK's at home or my DH. All I thought was that I would be with my Dad. At the last minute, the person veered back into their own lane. My reaction really shook me up because the idea of leaving my kiddos was unthinkable to me.

When my DS died eleven years ago, I went through much the same thing, only MUCH worse. Until he died, I thought my DAD'S death was the worst thing that happened to me. When Dan died, I WANTED to die, too. I wanted the terrible grief and pain to stop. I knew that I would be leaving my DH and remaining (by then adult) child at a time when they needed me the most. I even became obsessed with death because my son had an autopsy, so I read a book about autopsies and the embalming process, etc. I look back at the years following his death and I wasn't in really good shape until about 5 or 6 years later. I would be driving along the highway and be fine, and all of a sudden, get a visual in my mind of him lying in his casket. I would have to plug in a CD and sing at the top of my lungs to make it go away.

We ALL get thoughts sometimes about whether anybody would really miss us if we weren't here. We all get a longing at times to go "home" because being on Earth, we are separated from the presence of God. I know that you are a person of faith, a Christian, as I am. As a Christian, you know that your life here is a gift, and that you have a purpose for being here; a job for you to do. The Bible says that our days are numbered, and only God knows that number. You have a family who loves and needs you. Your life is just beginning.

Just know that you have suffered a shock. It will take a while for your mind to process it and come to terms with it. Since your feelings of depression come and go, that is part of the grieving. The grief comes in waves. The time interval between those waves will lengthen as time goes on. The human mind does not like change and it takes us a while to deal with it.

If your depression continues after a reasonable amount of time, go talk to your pastor or other counselor and maybe your physician, about getting an anti-depressant.

I wish you peace, dear friend, as you go through this time. It WILL pass. Dwell on your blessings and all that you have to be thankful for. Know that you are a unique and special creation made by the Lord. Your grief will ease in time. I am praying for you and for your friend's family.

By Nicki on Sunday, March 16, 2008 - 01:38 am:

Julie, I agree with Pam. I sincerely hope you will think about seeing a counselor and talking about these feelings.
I'm so sorry about your friend.
You will be in my thoughts. I'm glad you came here to talk with us. I noticed you hadn't been posting as much and wondered if all was well.

By Ginny~moderator on Sunday, March 16, 2008 - 02:23 am:

Juli, please, please, please get to a counselor immediately. And please talk to your husband.

Depression is a terrible, insidious illness. One of the terrible things about it is that when you are depressed things seem logical to you that would never seem logical when you are well. Depression wraps itself around your mind like a fog and shuts out the real world and your real self.

I can, from the outside, understand the logic of making the pain stop. But think about your husband, living the rest of his life knowing that his love for you wasn't enough, that you didn't love him enough to stay alive and fight this disease. Think of your children, growing up knowing that their mother killed herself - that does terrible things to a child. Yes, for the person who does it, suicide stops the pain, but for those who love that person, it only starts pain that can go on for the rest of each person's life. I don't and won't believe that you are so selfish that you would want to do that to your children.


Julie, you can beat this, but you have to try. You have to fight the depression, if not for yourself, then for your children and your husband. Just look at the devastation your friend's death has caused her family and friends - and you - and ask yourself if that is what you want to do to the people you love, the people who love you.

One of the true things about suicide is that it removes all choices, because it removes the future. It is a permanent solution to a temporary problem. You can never take it back, never change your mind, never try another way to work on your problems. Think about not watching your children growing up, not seeing them graduate from high school, fall in love, not sharing their accomplishments and their joys, never knowing what kind of people they will be. Think about what you would miss. Please, please, please, get to a counselor immediately. If you are really thinking hard enough about this, then try to have the courage my son had and check yourself into a hospital to get immediate help that will keep you from harm.

Please know that you are not alone. Many women on this board have struggled with depression, some more deeply than others. I've had problems with it myself, as has everyone in my family. That's why I know how awful it can be and how it can take over your life and your mind and have you thinking in ways you would never think if you were not depressed. You can overcome this, you can be in control of your life. But you have to try, and you have to get help right now.

By Amecmom on Sunday, March 16, 2008 - 09:39 am:

Julie, hugs. I do think Hol has a good point that this is normal. However, if you have access to a counselor or a clergyman (or woman), it might be a good idea to talk about it.
Yes, I know what you mean about your thoughts being to dark to voice to anyone. But Ginny has it right when she says that the illogical seems logical when you are depressed. You don't want to spiral down a slippery slope.
If it were me, I would see a doctor, someone you trust. See if this is clinical depression for which you will need medication.
Don't just guess and don't just sink deeper.
Talking it out may be very helpful. Don't worry that it will change the way someone thinks of you. It won't. You've experienced a tragedy and whoever you choose to share this with will understand.
Ame

By Bea on Sunday, March 16, 2008 - 09:41 am:

Juli, I’ve been there, and thankfully not done that. I had often thought of suicide, but like you, in a controlling way. With my death, I could change the way my family saw me. They would THEN, understand my pain. For years and years I planned my demise, storing away potent medications as my BACK DOOR or ESCAPE HATCH. Then, I had a bout of depression that took me into total despair. Death became, not a way to control anything but my own pain. That pain overwhelmed me. I simply couldn’t function under it’s weight. I could no longer focus on anything other then that blackness. There was no escape into TV or books. I simply couldn’t concentrate enough to follow the story. My tears flowed almost constantly. Even sleep was tortured. I wanted a way to stop that pain. I was very lucky, because my husband was away at this time, to have a neighbor, that I hardly knew, notice what was going on. She also suffered from depression. She convinced me to sign myself into a local mental hospital, where I stayed for over a month. Two weeks of that time was under suicide watch.

It has taken years of cognitive therapy to get me to the point in life that I now occupy. I share what I’ve learned with you.


FIRST: SELF ESTEEM IS CRUCIAL.You must learn to not only love but to genuinely like yourself. Surround yourself with people who are mirrors of how wonderful and unique you are.... people who like and admire you. Get rid of anyone that convinces you that you are less than great. Do you believe your family loves you? Are they idiots? Do they have bad taste? That's where you start. As you begin to like yourself more, you will attract people who are positive. Make a list of what YOU like about yourself. I'll bet it's not a long list. Take the time to think about every item on that list several times a day. Try to take credit and pride in those items. When you've done something that you think went well, compliment yourself. Pat yourself on the back for a delicious dinner, a clean living room, a beautiful garden, a successful child. Look in the mirror and preen a little when you know your hair looks good, that skirt is just the right color to set off your eyes, or you've lost that 3 pounds.

SECOND: "SELFISH IS NOT A FOUR LETTER WORD". Mothers are caretakers, and caretakers seldom take care of themselves. That leaves you worn and frazzled, resentful, but feeling guilty about resenting. It's a bad place to be. Some very important people depend upon you and so therefor it's VERY IMPORTANT for you to take care of yourself FIRST. Take a long bubble bath after the baby's in bed. Leave the kids with Dad and go to lunch with a friend. Rent that chick flick that he won't take you to see, and have a friend over while the kids are in pre school. Buy yourself that wonderful new shade of lipstick. Treat yourself well because you deserve such treatment.

THIRD: "LEARN TO BE A POLLYANNA". There is always something good or beautiful in every situation. Find it. When the baby has a fussy day. Put aside the other chores and rock her. How often do you get that time together? Savor it. Gather snapshot memories. It may be a trying situation now, but later it will probably be funny. Listen to a bird song. Look for rainbows. Stroke a cat or dog. Watch two squirrels play. There is some good in everything and every situation. Sometimes it's hard to find, but if you work as hard to find the good, as you work at suffering the bad, the sun will shine on your soul. Instead of asking God for help, concentrate on thanking him for your blessings. It helps to identify them.

FOURTH: EXERCISE. Moderate exercise will raise the endorphin levels in your brain. Be sure to get enough sleep. Sleep deprivation will rob you of motivation and serotonin.

FIFTH: CHANGE YOUR PRIORITIES. Stop trying to take care of everything. Let go of the control and let God handle it. He'll do a much better job of it. Trust me! Don't sweat the details. Recite the serenity prayer to yourself a hundred times a day and live by it.

By Hol on Sunday, March 16, 2008 - 10:48 pm:

Julie - Please check in and let us know how you are doing.

By Nicki on Monday, March 17, 2008 - 02:19 am:

I've had you one my mind today and I hope you're okay, Julie.
((Hugs))

By Juli4 on Tuesday, March 18, 2008 - 07:02 pm:

I am doing better. I did talk to my dh and his reaction was stronger than i hoped, but honestly having his wife think these things is pretty scary. I am generally a logical person and most of the time it doesn't even make sense to me what I am thinking. I identified a lot with kristin and feel guilty. I know the guilt is unfounded, but I do. Not having these thoughts and feelings as my little secret helps a lot and it seems as though it is easier to deal with things. Talking has helped. Altough today my phone died and my dh couldn't get a hold of me so he came home to check wich I appreciate, but he seems annoyed and mad and said that he is tired of mentally preparing to come home and find out I hurt myself. The logical side is insulted that he thinks that I would, but then again I did admit to being depressed and thoughts jumping into my head. So talking helps, but now I have to feel guilty for feeling this way. I don't choose to fee this way or think those things. I do everything I can to not. It has been a little over 6 weeks now and the only reason I said anything was because I felt that I shouldn't still be thinking these things. Thanks for listening I am glad that I came you all.

By Nicki on Wednesday, March 19, 2008 - 01:57 am:

Julie, I'm glad you checked in as I've been worried about you. It must have taken great courage to share your feelings with your husband. I struggle with depression, and my husband has been through some tough times with me. I know the guilt you speak of, and I wish I could give you a hug. I, too have felt guilty about the worry I've caused my loved ones. But, my dh has reminded me that we are in this for better or worse. And when I'm feeling better, I realize I've seen him through some tough times, too. Please don't be hard on yourself. As you say, you don't want to think these things. Obviously you want to feel better or you wouldn't have come here to talk and you wouldn't have taken the next step to talk with your dh.

I guess I'm still hoping you might think about talking to someone, such as a counselor, if you are still struggling. You've suffered the loss of a friend in a very tragic way, and as you say, you wonder if it could be triggering some of you own feelings of depression. It has been my experience that such events can be triggers. If you're like me, you may be very good at getting through each day and working hard to resist the depression, because you have many people counting on you. Taking time for yourself and talking to a professional might be a good way of taking care of "you".

I'm sorry to go on so. I hope things will improve for you, Julie. Take care, okay?
((Hugs))

By Ginny~moderator on Wednesday, March 19, 2008 - 05:04 am:

Julie, I also am glad you talked to your husband. Now it is time to talk to a counselor. Stop putting it off. The thing about a counselor is, first, they are non-judgmental. They only care about helping you find out why you feel as you do, and helping you to come to a better place in your life. Second, it is totally private. Whatever you tell the counselor stays there. Guaranteed. Third, if medication will help you get your mind into a better place the counselor will have a good idea of what medication might be best, and can observe its effects on you and decide whether it is the right medication or another might be better. (Unhappily, sometimes an anti-depression med that works well for others won't work for you, and sometimes it is necessary to try more than one before you get onto the right med.)
Third, the counselor will help you find what is really bothering you, what is the underlying cause of the guilt and other feelings you have, and explore why you feel those things, so that you can find ways to get control over your life.

I urge you to get into counseling as quickly as possible. Your family doctor can make a referral.

I can understand how your husband feels. I have lived with a person struggling with depression, and it is very wearying and very worrisome. I have had the same worries, whether the person I care about is OK or has done something harmful, when I can't get in touch. It's a bit easier for me, perhaps, because I too have struggled with depression so I know how it feels from the inside and your husband doesn't. He should try to understand that you are not doing this on purpose, you can't help it. It is chemistry, body and brain chemistry, and perhaps genetics that bring you to this place, and I'm sure you'd rather not be a person dealing with depression.

Please, do get into counseling. In the long run, it is the only answer. Meds will help, but counseling is the only avenue to really helping you to get control over your life and learn how to cope with and beat this depression. I've had it work for me, and have seen it work wonders for the person I mentioned above.

By Pamt on Wednesday, March 19, 2008 - 09:24 am:

Julie,
I am glad that you talked to your DH as well. I notice on your profile that your DH is a ministerial student. My DH is a minister as well. I know that depression, ministry, all the baggage that comes with that, etc. can be especially tough. A lot of times you feel like you can't unload or express your true self to people because it might reflect negatively on your husband's ministry, plus the whole "is depression a medical or spiritual issue?" thoughts that a lot of people hold. I want to encourage you to see a counselor as well. When I was having some big family problems (i.e., "mama drama") about 10 years ago I went to a professional Christian counselor and it was one of the best things I have ever done. I felt so validated and he empowered me with some great coping strategies. They also provided discounted rates to clergy because so many ministers and their families get so easily overloaded bearing everyone else's burdens all of the time. Your DH's seminary likely has counseling for students as well.

Also, please feel free to email me at pamela.terrell at gmail dot com if you'd like to chat. While I have never been depressed I do totally understand what it is like to be in ministry and live in the fishbowl. I am leaving to go out of town today and won't be back until Saturday, but I will respond. Take care!