Well we moved into our house 2 years ago, my neihbour on the one side, is really strange, she started coming over and asking for a smoke, so I would give her one, this went on and off for a while, but she would not even say hi to me when I walked passed her on the street, so one day i blasted her and said she was not friendly and did not even say hi to me, so why should I give her anything? she just said oh, sorry sorry in a strange low voice. Latley she has been coming over again, for smokes, dh told me to stop being a --------- and give her one, so I did well she came everyday, for two weeks. I finally had had eneough again and told her to stop, you see she has been going to all the neihbours getting smokes or quater's. I do not know what is wrong with her but she has some major problem. Anyway getting to why I really am writing is, on saturday she shows up at the door, now I am ready to freak, because of everything I have went through with her already, so I open the door and she whispers can I use your washroom, so I was stunned since I bielve her house next door has a toilet, but anyway i said yes, she goes in, then comes out and goes home, as she is leaving I watched her and her dress has a stain on the back ugh........ then I hear my youngest dd someone better clean up that bathroom, I go in their and oh my god!!!!!!!! she has no.2 all over the seat.So I am gagging, trying not to throw up. Dh had to go down to the store and get some rubber gloves and some disfectant, and yes I was the lucky winner to have to clean up that mess. Everyone said I should have marched over to her house and told her to get the -------- back to my house and clean the toilet. But I was in shock. All I have to say is she better not come back on my property again.

By Mommyathome on Monday, June 28, 2004 - 10:26 am:

Oh my goodness! I'm sorry you have such a strange neighbor. The bathroom thing would really do me in......I wouldn't let her back in.

By Amyj on Monday, June 28, 2004 - 10:28 am:

I would have asked her to come back, but I know what you mean when you say you were in shock. Next time she comes over I would tell her that you can not continue the relationship. I had a friend that started doing very strange things and became somewhat of a stalker. I had to end the relationship for the good of my family. Maybe you could offer to give her names of places she could go for assistance.(If that is what she needs...?)

By John on Monday, June 28, 2004 - 10:49 am:

This woman is not a "friend" and definately not someone you want anywhere near your house/

It sounds like she has some sort of mental problem.
I would avoid her but don't provoke her by confrontation.

Based on what she has done, she doesn't have "normal"
constraints on her behavior.

People like this can be very unpredicatable and might become violent when provoked.

Be careful...

By Melissa on Monday, June 28, 2004 - 11:09 am:

I think she has a mental illness. I would avoid her and not let her in my house.

By Ladypeacek on Monday, June 28, 2004 - 11:19 am:

does she live alone?? Thats weird, but if she is ill then i would hope there is someone to take care of her. My mom had a close friend that lived alone and one day she started acting strange, when my mom called her she would say the strangest things. Then she would call her 4 or 5 times a day and say exactly the same thing. Finally my mom called someone at social services to check on her (she lived out of state which is why my mother could not go) But when they got there her house looked like a hurricane hit it. She then had a nurse move in to take care of her. I forgot what they said was wrong, she was young and it wasn't alzheimers, i will have to ask.

By Amecmom on Monday, June 28, 2004 - 11:21 am:

Ditto to all the posts that say whe is mentally ill. Does she live alone? Does she have any family to watch out for her, or someone you can contact to let them know about this strange behavior?

Do not let her back into your house and keep your distance from this neighbor.

She could, as John suggested, become aggressive.

Ame

By Emily7 on Monday, June 28, 2004 - 11:43 am:

I wouldn't let my kids outside alone. I agree she is mental. Have you talked to any one in the nieghborhood about her? Has she done this before? Maybe contact a mental health specialist & find out if their is anything you can do to help her.

By Boxzgrl on Monday, June 28, 2004 - 11:43 am:

Ugggghhhh.... thats all I can think of!

Kudos to you for not marching over there handing her the rubber gloves and dragging her by her hair to clean up the mess!

How Rude of her!

By Rayanne on Monday, June 28, 2004 - 12:11 pm:

That is so gross. I would have told her to come and clean it. Good for you for keeping your cool. Is she an elderly woman? It sounds like she really has problems. She makes me feel sad for her. Does she have any family that you can contact?

By Bea on Monday, June 28, 2004 - 01:34 pm:

This doesn't sound like rudeness to me at all. It sounds like severe mental illness. I would hope that you would respond with charity instead of anger. Please call the community mental health office and tell them what has been going on with this person. She needs serious help. She has never threatened you, or anyone you know by her words or actions. Treating her as a dangerous beast is simply wrong. She isn't possessed by a demon. Much of the advice you've received saddens me. I would think that with so many of our members receiving medication for depression and other mental problems, there would be more understanding here.

By Children03 on Monday, June 28, 2004 - 01:53 pm:

I would tell her to stay away from your home from now on. She sounds looney. I wouldn't answer the door if she comes over. I don't understand why on earth a grown lady would ask to use your restroom and then leave poop smeared all over your bathroom. She obviously has some kind of mental problem.

By Marcia on Monday, June 28, 2004 - 02:02 pm:

I agree with Bea! People with mental illnesses, as it would appear she has, need proper care, not to be treated like dangerous, scary people. I would call a social service agency to try to find help for her. I'm sure you're the only person who has reached out to her at all, and maybe the only stable person in her life.
As much as you don't like what she's doing, ignoring her or talking about her to the other neighbours won't help her. She needs caring, professional help.

By Texannie on Monday, June 28, 2004 - 02:13 pm:

I agree with Bea. I hope someone helps her instead of shuns her. I would call social services and see what they could do.

By Bellajoe on Monday, June 28, 2004 - 02:19 pm:

I also agree with Bea. She has a mental illness, she most likely has no idea what she is doing, and that it is wrong. It doesn't sound like she is dangerous just because she asks for a cigarette and smears BM all over your toilet....its gross, yeah, but not dangerous. She does need professional help.

By Lauram on Monday, June 28, 2004 - 03:03 pm:

She definitely needs help! Does she live alone? Or does she have kids? IF so, I'm concerned about them too!

By Mrse on Monday, June 28, 2004 - 03:30 pm:

She is living alone, their was a man who was thier but he left, and comes back now and then , but dosn't seem like he sleeps their. Yes she does have a mental problem, but the very first time I told her not to ask for smokes because she would not even talk to me on the street, I was not clueing in to any mental problems. I clued into that when the ambulance guys had her pinned to the lawn one day. When we first moved in she was screaming help help in the house, I called the police and told them to go and check on her. I don't think she is dangerous, that is why I gave her the smokes and let her in to go to the bathroom. I did not want to deny her going in to use my washroom, I was thinking along the lines of if you have to go to the one neihbour who told you to get lost , a week ago to use the bathroom she must have to go pretty badly. I just got home and my daughters told me that the ambulance was their and she was talking to them , and told them that she was going crazy, so they took her to the hospital. I do feel very sorry for her. I just wish I knew what was wrong. My girls are older so I am not to worried about them being out side, I think she is more scared of us than we are of her.
But we will keep our distance from now on. I think I will call mental health and tell them about bathroom incident. She is in her forty's and no kids from what I know of her, and I don't really see anyone going over their at all, I do not know much at all about her life. I do know that the "man" that goes over their told another neihbour that she is on medicine.

By Rayanne on Monday, June 28, 2004 - 05:00 pm:

She could also just be lonely and looking for attention. She might be going at it the wrong way, but she might know what is the right way apposed to the the wrong.

By Melana on Monday, June 28, 2004 - 11:00 pm:

Ok, this woman deffinately has a mental disability, she could be schizophrenic, have mild retardation, which I'm guessing is likely both. I've bee around people with mental Disabilities my entire life, and what I can tell you is that if the next time she comes over and askes for a smoke, just sit on the front porch and see if she'll talk with you. She's probably not trying to be rude by not talking to you on the street, people with mental disabilities have no social skills for the most part, also find out if she is recieving hospice, I'd say she probably needs it. Yes, you are right to call social services, she really needs them. I'm sure you don't realize this, but because you've given her cigarettes on a regular basis, I'm sure she see's you as her best friend! I'd also tell her that you'll only give her one smoke a day, or every other day, but only if she promises to be friendly. I would advise, as the other ladies not to allow her into your house again, I doubt she was going #2 on your toilet on purpose, she probably doesn't know any better. And yes, I have to agree with Bea, I can't beleive that the women on this board would have such a negative attitude to someone very obviously in need. I have a love for the mentally disabled people, and that is what they're called not mentally ill, I'll be going to college soon for a degree in psycology so I can work closer with this population of people. One more thing, and I'll quit rambeling, IF this girl is schitzophrenic, nicotine for some reason, they don't know why, seems to calm the "voices" they hear, and makes them more tolerable, so most schitzophrenics tend to be chain smokers.

By Bobbie~moderatr on Monday, June 28, 2004 - 11:25 pm:

I am thinking that Melana, Bea and all the other ladies suggesting she is mentally disabled are correct. And IF she is alone she is probably not getting proper treatment and is probably not aware of the services that are out there for her. I would look into the services available in your area for the mentally disabled and I would contact a case manager and make them aware that she is even out there and in need. Most mentally disabled people go untreated when they are not surrounded by family or friends, people that push to get them help. They are a throw away population. They don't know their rights, don't know how to get help for themselves and society would just as soon brush them under a rug some where. Call around and see what you can find out see if you can find someone that will come in and check on her situation and get her the help she needs. And I don't think she meant to leave you a mess. And I agree about the smokes. For someone that is mentally disabled it is a major feet for them to make contact with other people/outsiders. They know they aren't "right" and exposing themsleves to your possible rejection is very difficult for them. I think the fact that she speaks to you period says a lot and I also agree that she probably sees you as a friend. Remember people that are mentally disabled are generally not capable of rational thought process. See if you can find someone to help her.

By Mrse on Monday, June 28, 2004 - 11:36 pm:

Melana thanks for the advice I did not know that about the cig calming the voices. But I really can hardly afford to smoke myself, so giving her a smoke a day would be out of the question.
I seen the man come home, so I went over to talk to him, I guess he just brought her home from the hospital. I told him that I was concerned for her, and asked if their is anyone that we can call when she is not well, at first he was kind of taken back but soon as I said I wanted to help he gave me the number of mental health and her name so I could call them to come and help. He said the problem is, is with our goverment, and when she goes out to the hospital, they just end up changing her med's and send her home with no observation, so he says he is really stuck and does not know what to do. I told him that we know when she is not well, that we could call as he is not thier all the time. I also told him what she did in my washroom, and he was mortified. I guess he figured that if I was not ranting and raving about that , and I said I wanted to help I was not all that bad. I would not mind sitting down and talking to her, but i would like to know some back ground, is she violent, etc,, before I get to involved. I do have my family to think about. I do think she hears voices as she always screams help, help. I am going to look some stuff up on the net, and see what I can learn .

By Christylee on Tuesday, June 29, 2004 - 12:04 am:

I agree she definatly needs some help and BIG KUDOS for going over there to approach the man and doing research on things for her.

By Bobbie~moderatr on Tuesday, June 29, 2004 - 12:21 am:

Sounds like she is schitzophrenic to me. Look up the info but keep in mind that not all people exhibit all the symptoms that are listed. And many people that are mentally disabled pick up other issues through life. Schitzophrenia for example leads to piggy back conditions. Social phobia, OCD, on and on. So you may read something and think OH that is all.. and that not be the case. And in the same turn the other conditions that she has picked up/ assumed through her life can counter some of her schitzophrenic symptoms. I would say you have lived there for two years and she has not assulted anyone she is not any more of a physical threat than any of your other neighbors are. I might also suggest, since she has the money to give quarters to the neighbors for smokes she just may very well have the money to buy her own but can't make herself go to the store to buy them (exposing herself to outsiders). You might ask her if she has the money to buy some and tell her you will go pick them up for her. OR you can offer to sell her a whole pack instead of one or two. I am thinking she is probably coming over for the contact more so than the need for a smoke. If you would feel comfortable doing it you could offer to keep them at your house (even on the porch in an plastic container or something) and she could come over to get one when she wanted one. Then other than time she won't be putting you out. I know a woman personally who is schitzophrenic and she does chain smoke and she does seem more calm when she is smoking. It took her a long time to warm up to us, we have known her 15 years now. Some times she just wants to be around people. She doesn't speak much unless directly asked a question but she enjoys feeling normal and included which she hasn't felt much in her life. She is a such a loving soul stuck in a sick body. But anyway, I would surely keep that number handy, sounds like the woman is one of the lost.

By Mrse on Tuesday, June 29, 2004 - 01:49 am:

You know I never even thought about the fact she may not be able to go to the store, I am sitting here with my mouth open!!! How could I be so stupid. I will ask her if she needs me to go get her cig's, that could be the reason, but only if she comes to my door. Thanks for the advice. Now this is why I like this board, thankyou bobbie

By Feona on Tuesday, June 29, 2004 - 06:39 am:

I think she is mentally ill. I wouldn't get mad at her. Like really mentally ill... I don't think I would let her use the bathroom again though...

I don't think she is dangerous. I think she will just keep on asking for cigaretttes even if you don't give them.

By Mrse on Tuesday, June 29, 2004 - 09:26 am:

Yes she most likley will ask for more cig, as this is the second time I have told her not to come to my door asking for smokes, I am sure it will happen again.

By Ginny~moderator on Tuesday, June 29, 2004 - 08:02 pm:

Mrse, I applaud your ability to take the information posted above and make such a major change in your attitude towards this woman. You should be proud of yourself. And, take this opportunity to teach your children about getting more information before making judgments, which is what you did.

I think offering to buy her cigarettes may not be such a great idea, but I would give her a cigarette or even two a day. I would be concerned about her smoking in her house because of the dangers involved - which might be why the man doesn't buy cigarettes for her. And if it were me and she came around asking to use the bathroom, I would tell her that she has to use the bathroom in her own house. I doubt she made a conscious decision to make a mess in your bathroom but still, you had to clean it up, and you shouldn't have to go through that again. Since she lives nearby she should be able to go back to her own house.

Good idea to get the name of the agency and number to call. Sad that our medical and mental health system is such a mess that a woman like this is just re-medicated and sent home without making sure there is someone to be sure she takes her medications and is managing.

But, I think I would tell my kids to be polite to her but to not get involved with her - to call you if she comes to your yard and/or house or comes up to them on the street. Not call you in a panic like something is wrong, but simply that she has problems and this is something a grownup should be dealing with, not kids.

By Ginny~moderator on Tuesday, June 29, 2004 - 08:04 pm:

Oh, and aren't you glad you decided to clean it up yourself instead of marching over and telling her to get her **** back over to your house?

By Melana on Tuesday, June 29, 2004 - 09:41 pm:

I think, just maybe if you have a little gas station in walking distance, and you feel comfortable enough after a while, walking with her to have her buy her own smokes. It will give her a sence of accomplishment, and after a while, if she's capable of it, sending her to by herself, and I'm saying after maybe a month or two, to buy her own cigarettes, which will make her feel even more independent. That is what ALL mentally disabled people strive for, just like the rest of us. I am sad to say I volonteered for a couple of years at a drop in center for the mentally disabled homeless comunity, and there were a lot of them out there. Do you live in a large or small town? Most small towns only have small facilities for the severely disabled to live at, and maybe a small program for the ones that are high enough functioning to have care in their own homes. Are you a SAHM? You could talk to someone from social services, and if you get med certified, be paid to go over and make sure she has her meds every day and is keeping her place cleaned. She should be in a program that does that already. That's exactly the type of work my mom has done for 25 years, and let me tell you, the state has funding for this, so she doesn't have to pay for it out of pocket, I think it's rediculous she's not being treated by professionals. I really commend you for being willing to help this woman, I'm sure she's a wonderful person once she learns to trust you. I'm also guessing, since this man doesn't know a lot about the programs in your area, he's probably just started having to care for her, or he doesn't really give two cents and would love to pawn her off on someone else. If you talk to him again, find out what exactly is wrong with her. I'll quit talking now, this population is my biggest passion outside of my family, I'd give my right arm to be there now to help this woman.

By Mrse on Tuesday, June 29, 2004 - 10:05 pm:

I work outside my home, and I am painting my parents house at the moment, so every time I get off work I go to their house, then thier is their cabin after that. Hopefully I will get to paint my own house this summer, stripping the paint off right now. If she runs into problems yes I will go and see if their is something that I can do, but I am not really feeling all that helpful right now due to the -------- I am going through with my friend,( other post) I tryed to help her and got slapped in the face.
My kids are fully aware and accept the mentally handicapp, my mil looks after a lady who is mentally handicapp, and has looked after several other people. my dd's grew up with them at my mil's . I have seen this woman walking to the store, and she also sells stuff at a garage sale every weekend out of her yard. She does not look handicapp , I think she has schizophrena (sp). I really don't think she was always this way. I will support her when she needs it, but I have to much going on in my life to go and babysit her. I don't mean that in a bad way it is just I could be opening up a big can of worms, I could really see her being in my yard every second she got, and I am not really into a full time visitor.

By Lauram on Wednesday, June 30, 2004 - 08:09 am:

I keep thinking about this woman. I'm so sad for her! I think it's great that you are willing to "look out" for her, but not get directly involved. You certainly are vulnerable since you live right next door. Is she out of the hospital or still there?

By Mrse on Wednesday, June 30, 2004 - 06:58 pm:

Yes she was out a few hours later, the hospital is not keeping anyone in at all anymore. I think the man who has been coming and going has done everything he can but with the goverment the way it is his hands are tyed. She should be in a group home or something not living on her own, so their is qualified people to help her, since I do not know anything really about her or what she has, it is kind of going into the unknown, you just do not know the risks that are involved.

By Feona on Thursday, July 1, 2004 - 06:42 am:

99.9% of schizophrena people would hurt themselves before they would hurt anyone else. Especially since she is a woman. I would try not to be afraid of her. She really didn't do anything to warrent being scared of her.

She just made a mess in your bathroom. Anyone with bowel problems could do that. Probably the medication she is on gave her bowel problems.

If there really was a danger about schizophrenic people the news would have it in the paper everyday. The news would love to report those articles.

By Mrse on Thursday, July 1, 2004 - 10:32 am:

Yes, but like I say I don't know if that is what she had, is that the only disease you can have that you hear voices? kind of sounds like the most likley. No I am not personally scared of her, but who really knows what could happen. ok example: We were friends with my sister in law's brother, he was on prozac he would come over and have coffee all the time, I really did like having coffee with him and really enjoyed his company, then all of a sudden he started to get wierd, he was always their, so when a call came in from my friend I did not hestitate to talk to her for a min, I was folding laundry on the couch, and I scooted to the edge of the couch and turned a bit to reach some laundry ( my back ended up turned to him) and he stretched out from the chair beside the couch lifted his leg and booted me in the head and said don't turn your back on me!! I just told him to f off.
Then the next thing that happen was I was at work,in a restaurant and it had huge glass windows and I worked night shift he ( without me knowing sat in the court yard and watched me) he had admitted that to me later, also one night he came to the window and intentionally scared me. Then one day I went to my friends house and I looked in my rear view mirror and he was behind me, then he was gone, then he would be behind me again, I went to my friends house, and he pulled up behind me and said what the f do you think you are doing?? I said I am visiting my friend!! he said well I was on my way to have coffee with you! I said well you should have called first and I would have stuck around. He also started to tell my kids what to do also. My dh was away working and was not able to come home, I was scared shitless, as now he had become a danger to me and the girls. All it took was one call to my brother in law and he stopped coming around, 1 year later he hung himself in his house. I knew he had mental problems, and knew he was on med's and I did not think he was of any danger to me but things changed and all of a sudden it got real scary, so like I said you just don't know what is going to happen when someone has a mental disability. The doctors that say this person is of no danger because they have -------- disorder, I would believe them if they were willing to bring that person into their home with their children, and really find out how much they bielve their statement.

By Texannie on Thursday, July 1, 2004 - 11:47 am:

Mrse, you don't have to adopt this woman, but looking out for her, making a few phones calls, being a good neighbor won't put you in any jeopardy. She has never been violent with you in the past, what makes you think she would now? Because someone here brought up that she is very possibly mentally ill? You just thought she was a pain and nuisance..you were never afraid of her.

By Bea on Thursday, July 1, 2004 - 12:17 pm:

I really resent the implication that because I have clinical depression I am somehow a danger to anyone's children. It's attitudes like yours that prevent people from seeking the help they need. Who wants to be branded WEIRD and shunned. I pray that you and your children remain problem free because it appears that a mental disability would not be tolerated in your circle. Maybe your sister in law's brother simply disliked you.

By Kittycat_26 on Thursday, July 1, 2004 - 12:26 pm:

I agree with Mrse. She doesn't know enough about this woman to make the decision of whether to befriend her, watch out for her, or even associate with her at all. This woman's doctors have not shared any information nor has this woman's family or SO.

Her actions are scarey. Diseases can be passed by messing in someone's bathroom. It's unsanitary not to mention gross. Mental illness or not, this is not acceptable.

Mental illness can be tolerated but must be managed. My first concern would be what would this woman do if one of the children answered the door instead of an adult. You don't know.

I'd steer clear but that is only me. Others would be willing to help. There is a reason there are all types of people in the world and this is one of them.

By Bea on Thursday, July 1, 2004 - 12:39 pm:

I never recommended that she take this woman under her roof and care for her needs. I'm talking about attitude towards those with mental disabilities. Earlier I suggested calling the Community Services Office to alert them to a possible problem. I realize that left untreated, certain mental disabilities can pose a risk to the patient or to others. Mental illness is like any other disease, and is no reason to cause society to ignore, or turn their backs towards us. A little compassion and empathy is what makes for healthy relationships, not prejudices and fear.

By Texannie on Thursday, July 1, 2004 - 12:41 pm:

A phone call won't jeopardize her children. She was never worried about her children till mental illness was brought up here. She thought she was just a pain.

By Palmbchprincess on Thursday, July 1, 2004 - 04:06 pm:

I'm going to tend to agree with Bea... too many people in this country have poor attitudes towards mental illness. The medical facilities turn this woman away, like so many others. Many of our homeless people are schizophrenic, or have other disorders that have caused society to shun them. I am certainly not saying give this woman a key to your home and buy her a weapon, but ignoring it can be dangerous for her and those around her. I don't know much about Canada, but here we have government departments (similar to protective services) that you can call. Either something for mental health, or adult protective services. Please call. Sometimes it's impossible to get someone help when you are the only one making a fuss (like the man is doing). Squeaky wheel... maybe someone will grease it! Good luck!!

By Hol on Thursday, July 1, 2004 - 04:52 pm:

Bea,being an intelligent, well-educated woman, you KNOW that there is a HUGE difference between clinical depression and schizophrenia. There are members of my own family, and extended family, that are under treatment for clinical depression, yet they are working, tax paying, contributing members of society. They have stable family lives.

However...schizophrenia IS a MAJOR mental illness that can cause symptoms that are very unpredictable. I live in a very small town, and one of our citizens is severely schizophrenic. He was adopted from a Romanian orphanage, by an affluent family in our town. He is about my age (mid 50's). Only his father is alive now, and he's quite elderly and frail. "Bob" lives with him. He can't drive a car, so he rides his bike to get the mail at the post office. He appearance is kind of off-putting. He has straggly hair and a long beard, and even on the hottest day, will wear a woolen cap. Some days, at the post office, he'll say "Hello" in a low, gutteral voice, but never look up. Yet, a visiting nurse friend of mine went to visit the father one day, on her rounds. It was winter. When she came out of the house, he was pelting her car with snowballs, and yelling "All women are b--tches!" Also, the father went to the animal control officer (also a friend of mine), in tears, and said that "Bob" had done something "terrible" to their dog, but to please not prosecute him, because he is mentally ill. (The animal control officer didn't even know about the incident, but because they had adopted the dog from her, I guess the father thought that she would find out. She was horrified.)The question that remains is what will happen to "Bob" when the father dies. He may end up like your neighbor, all alone.

My DD is a registered nurse and when she was in college, she had to do a rotation at our state institution. She said that the staff would give the patients cigarettes to calm them down, so that is true about nicotine. When our soldiers first invaded Iraq,a lot of Iraqi's fled, and the mental institutions were abandoned by the staff. The soldiers gave the patients cigarettes.

When I first started reading your post, I thought that she might be an alcoholic, as her behavior reminded me of a former neighbor of mine, who acted much the same way. Her husband left her for another woman, which further sent her into a downward spiral. However, I believe that we have "diagnosed" her correctly here. It sounds like schizophrenia. I wouldn't say that they would never harm anyone but themselves. We had a local guy here, a few months back that fatally stabbed his caseworker.

I agree that her persistant visits to your home are a cry for help, and companionship. Maybe she has a family and they have abandoned her. Whoever this man is, maybe he is some kind of gaurdian appointed by the court, but he seems like he is a reluctant one.

I agree with all who have said that she definitely needs to be brought to the attention of the social service agencies. I know that you are in Canada, so things are a little different there, and having National Health, (as here, with HMO's), patients are released from the hospital too soon.

It could be that YOU are the only person that is going to be able to get the help that she needs, or is even willing to help. Sometimes, you can almost hear God say, "If not you,..who?".

I know that you have a lot on your own plate, and that there is only so much that you are willing to open yourself up to. I would feel the same way. It sounds like she NEEDS to be institutionalized, at least for a while, to get her stable. Then, medication compliance is a big issue with these folks once they get home. She would need a visiting nurse and a homemaker to see that she takes her meds, eats, keeps herself and her home clean, etc.

It's very sad. That is why a lot of schizophrenics end up committing suicide because it is such a horror to for them to live with the hallucinations and "voices". Since, many times, they often assume different identities, that is why she spoke to you in low or whispered voices at times. Also, SOME people would argue that they ARE demon possesed, depending on your religious philosophy and beliefs. IF that is the case, then NO medication is going to help, and the "goal" of the "demon" IS to try to get the victim to destroy themselves, hence the high suicide rate.

There are services in place for these folks. I believe that you may have a MORAL obligation to report her to the authorities, and get the right services in place for her. Also, you can kind of be a "well-being" monitor, and take notice if you don't see her outside for a couple days, etc. However, unless you really want to, I wouldn't get anymore involved than that. JMHO.

By Luvn29 on Thursday, July 1, 2004 - 04:54 pm:

Clinical depression is a BIG, no make that HUGE difference than some other mental disabilities. Many of them cannot even be compared.

It is very simple for us to sit behind our keyboards telling Mrse what to do, to take care of this woman, befriend her, make the phone calls, whatever, but when it is reality to her, it is a bit more difficult.

I agree, the woman needs help. But it seems that the man living with her/visiting her is responsible for that. If this woman has been discharged from the hospital more times than once, I seriously doubt any phone calls will help. This country is very good for letting people slip through the cracks.

I think that if mrse believes it is necessary, then making a phone call and trying to get help for this poor woman is the right thing to do. But she must put her family and their welfare first. That is her first priority.

In this country today, one must be overly cautious about just what they do for others. For fear of being help accountable, being sued, or being hurt physically.

No, being mentally disable doesn't automatically put you in a dangerous category, but certain mentally disturbed people can be very dangerous to those around them. She could simply become agitated over something and do something harmful. Mrse has no idea what is wrong with this woman, and if she is mentally disturbed, I do not blame her for being cautious. My children come first and foremost and I will do whatever I must to protect them from others. It is a mother's job to trust her instincts.

And if this woman isn't mentally disabled, then she has other issues, and I don't blame Mrse for not wanting to get involved.

I do not think that Mrse should be jumped on just for being questioning and cautious in this situation. I bet the biggest majority of us would be given the same situation. I am myself disabled and have had depression and anxiety problems including anxiety attacks due to my physical problems and I am not the least bit offended by any of this.

By Texannie on Thursday, July 1, 2004 - 05:11 pm:

I agree, we don't know what we would do in Mrse's shoe's, my point was that there was no fear of this woman only annoyance until mental illness was brought up as a possibility here.

By Boxzgrl on Thursday, July 1, 2004 - 05:49 pm:

(((Mrse))) I hope you find a way to work this out that you feel most comfortable with.

By Marcia on Friday, July 2, 2004 - 09:10 am:

Since this post is going on for so long, and people are very passionate about it, I just wanted to say a couple of things.
First of all, there is no one on this list who is qualified to diagnose any kind of illness, especially over the internet. We also cannot judge anyone for thier actions, including MrsE and the gentleman who has been stopping by to check on the woman.
MrsE, here are some links to BC Mental Health Servies. They are the people who can truly help. I have no idea where you live in BC, so I just looked up the province wide info. In BC FASD is very prominent, so you could also be dealing with something like that. These people will be able to help you.

http://www.healthservices.gov.bc.ca/mhd/infoline.html

http://www.mheccu.ubc.ca/adult/archives.cfm

http://www.vch.ca/community/mental_health.htm

http://www.bcss.org/get_involved/advocacy_BC/mental_health_coalition.html

I hope that some of these can give you some info that will be useful.

By Kittycat_26 on Friday, July 2, 2004 - 09:30 am:

I still stand by my original post in that I wouldn't get involved. Each and every person has to make a decision like this for themselves. Hearing one side of the story and trying to put myself in those shoes, I know me well enough to know that I wouldn't get involved.

Does that make me a bad person? I don't think so but others may think otherwise.

By Mrse on Friday, July 2, 2004 - 10:57 pm:

If my not wanting to get involved with this woman, because she has a mental illness, which I know nothing about makes me a bad person that so be it.( would be different if I knew what was the problem) I tryed to be friendly with her from day 1 whether she was a bit different to me was not a concern, if she had responded to me in a postive way she could have been over having coffee, as I accept everyone, she did not want to be friendly at all, so what can I do? I can not make her want me in her life. I do not know where the statement from you bea came from that mentally handicapp people are not accepted in my circle. My dh's mom looks after mentally handicapp people who are way worse off, than my neihbour . dh and I did respite for her. I could care less if she was mentally ill, if she wanted to be my friend I would except her. Question: bea is clincal depression the same as shizophrenia (sp)? Earlier in this post, feona gave the stat's for people who have shcizphrenia who would only hurt them selves, would anyone on the board take that 1% chance of someone hurting your child?? The man who I talked to next door said their was nothing wrong with their bathroom ( forgot to mention that before) so what was her thinking on borrowing my bathroom, and leaving a mess? I do not understand it myself, was she doing it to say something? most likely to tell me she was mad about the cig. Bea you have to remember that their is different degree's of mental illness, I am sorry you took offense to some of the posts., But I think it is unfair of you to take all this personally as I really don't think you are at the point of going over to your neihbours and leaving a little present. This lady is on medicine, the doctors are trying new drugs to get the right one. You know sometimes when you write on the board it causes so much contraversey, and hurt feeling which are not intended, but people take everything in a different way, but one has to think,if we were were all the same wouldn't this be a boring world? Just a though.

By Anonymous on Saturday, July 3, 2004 - 08:59 am:

Mrse, I would keep my distance. At least until she is properly medicated. I have a cousin who is schizophrenic and if he showed up at my door the way he was prior to proper medication, I would not have opened it and would have called the police. He was a danger to himself and he did physically hurt another person.

The "present" was absolutely disgusting. It may or may not have been a cry for help, but you have your own family to take care of. That should be (and seems to be )your number one priority and no one should make you feel bad for looking out for them first.

By Bobbie~moderatr on Sunday, July 4, 2004 - 12:29 am:

First of all, Anon just above mine. She will most likely never be properly medicated. She is alone. Thus she is in charge of her own medication and I would place money on the fact that she will not take her medication as she is supposed to. NO one likes to take medication. Many antipsychotics make the person feel very physically ill. Another situation that comes up is that they start feeling better and think the pills were a magical cure and that they are all better and stop taking them. Either way you look at it there might be a short honeymoon period from her psychotic episodes but it will be short lived. With out daily contact with people that encourage her to take her meds and monitor her behaviors there is no true way to treat her condition. I am by no means suggest that Mrse get that involved with this woman any further than she already is. I however would hope that if she (or anyone else on this list) saw this woman acting irrational or out of sorts that she would pick up the phone and call someone and tell them that there is something going on and that she has mental illness and someone needs to come in and check on her. Be it the police, social services or a local mental health center. Picking up the phone and making someone aware of what is going on is not putting Mrse in any type of danger. On the contrary if she sits back and turns a blind eye to signs something is going wrong then she is opening herself and her neighbors up to the dangers that can come with a psychotic break down. If this woman is a danger there will be signs before it happens. Signs I would hope someone would report.

My suggestions about the cigarettes was made because for two years Mrse has been giving this woman cigarettes off and on. When Mrse just thought the woman was rude this really wasn't an issue but now that she knows the woman is "nuts" well it is a big issue. How many of Mrse neighbors are going to avoid this woman and mistreat her when they find out she is mentally disabled and now a threat? If everyone that gave her a few seconds of their time starts to shun her, if her days revolved around getting up the courage to walk over and ask for a cigarette and now people stop answering their doors because she is "off her rocker" then what will she have? This woman is human.. Mrse doesn't need to welcome her in her home or her life or feel sorry for her for that matter, I don't think this was a suggestion by anyone. I think the majority (that aren't saying avoid her like she has a plague) are saying keep an eye on her and keep that number she was given handy and if she sees or hears something call it that is all.

And for those that are not aware... My DH has a mild form of schitzophrenia called schitzo-affective disorder. My DH hears voices when he is undermedicated or unmedicated and under emotional distress. My husband can be irrational and down right upset to say the least but he is of no threat to anyone but himself. My DH went improperly diagnosed for 37 years because of fear to admit he heard voices. Why would he be afraid you might wonder??? Because people that don't live it have no way of understanding it and what we don't understand we want to avoid, mistreat and cast away... When you have emotional issues it is bad enough, then you add in the television/movie stereo types of the mentally ill and you are not only "nuts" but you are a person to be feared. This whole thing just makes me sad because with out me being here in his life that woman could be him. I would hope that there would be someone with a little bit of humanity in them to see he was still a person above and beyond all his outward behaviors.

I know this is too long but I also wanted to let you know that Bea's post comparing schitzophrenia and depression is not way off. People that are clinically depressed are known to commit physical crimes and act out not so much unlike a schitzophrenic person would. Most murder suicide are committed by a person that has been diagnosed/symptomatic of clinical depression. So her comparing the two is not way off base as suggested. Anyone in the throws of an emotional imbalance will act out irrationally it doesn't matter if it is schitzophrenia, PPD, bi polar, clinical depression and so on and so forth... So just because the woman next door talks to herself doesn't make her any more of a threat than the guy thats world has fallen apart and is standing behind you in the line at the grocery store.

Sorry for the book but this post hit way to close to home for me.

By Mrse on Sunday, July 4, 2004 - 10:10 am:

Well, I was away painting at mom's yesterday, I got home to my dd telling me, that my neihbour was screaming, but when I got home I heard nothing at all, last night I guess she called the ambulance, and their was two police cars in the driveway, the police were trying to get in. I talked to the police officier, and told him what I knew. I told him that she needs more help than a ride to the hospital!! I have decided on monday morning, I am going to call mental health, and see what I can do. I do not know how much help they are going to be, ( letting me help) as they most likely will not give out any personal info. Thankyou everyone for your thoughts on this matter, I am going to see what I can do, but very cautiously. All I know is, that she is calling the ambulance every week now, some times a couple of times a week, and something has to be done,Going to investigate her getting a home maker in for her med's just to make sure she takes them.

By Bea on Sunday, July 4, 2004 - 12:16 pm:

Unless she is found by the courts to be incompetent, she can not be forced to take medication. They could commit her involuntarily, but I doubt it will be for very long. In cases like this I think the ACLU has dealt the mental health community an insurmountable blow.

By Marcia on Sunday, July 4, 2004 - 01:41 pm:

Bea, she's in Canada. Even though she can't be forced to take the meds, there are services that send someone in to make sure your meals are cooked, the place is clean, meds are given or at least set out in daily dossets, appointments are kept, etc. It's offered for people who are elderly or have special needs. She can have nursing visits, too.
Good idea, Mrse!

By Vicki on Sunday, July 4, 2004 - 09:27 pm:

I have one question, when you go to the hospital and there is suspect of child abuse, aren't they REQUIRED by law to report it? Wouldn't it then be the case that if the police and ambulance and hospital are all aware of this woman and her episodes..shouldn't someone have already been notified of her?? I guess I am astounded that it has gotten this far with her. Why hasn't either the hospital or police ot ambulance workers already made phone calls on behalf of this woman??

By Melana on Sunday, July 4, 2004 - 09:38 pm:

When it comes to this kind of situation, they're not requiered to call, though lots of times they do, she may not be seing the same Dr. every time, so no one realizes that she needs help, or they just don't care, which is worse.

By Vicki on Sunday, July 4, 2004 - 09:57 pm:

That is just sad that it isn't required! People like this need just as much help as children who are abused! I didn't realize it wasn't a requirement!

By Marcia on Sunday, July 4, 2004 - 10:41 pm:

She would have a chart at the hospital, so they're aware of it. Still, they can't force her to go to regular appointments. They also can't force her to accept help. Since the man said she's on meds, there's at least one doc involved.

By Bobbie~moderatr on Monday, July 5, 2004 - 11:21 pm:

Marcia, Every time I have taken Rob into the ER I have had to fight to have him kept in the hospital..... The last time I had to lie to the ER doctor and tell them that he had threatened to kill himself (which turned in to me crying and raising my voice to get him to listen). The hospitals want to stabilize and refer to out patient therapy. The time they spend learning mental health issues is limited. So unless you come in with the rope still around your neck or the knife stuck in your wrist their job is to treat and kick out the door. Once again, the if you don't live it you don't understand it applies. One time Rob needed/had to be committed and the mental health referal system had a girl that didn't even know what his condition intailed. Basically she was clueless and it was her job to decide whether he could be admited or not.... How wrong is that???? The system just as in all cases doesn't work and if it does it only works when you have your foot up someones rear end. And they do not look up Robs hospitalization records until he is back on the mental health unit, so his number of er visits and stays on the unit aren't known by the er doctors. Mental health is handled differently than reagular health issues.

This woman may not be aware of the assistance that is out there for her. Just because she sees a Dr doesn't mean he is aware of her living conditions. He might assume the guy lives with her. He might assume that she is getting help. If you don't ask for it you can't get it and if you don't know it is out there than how do you ask. The services probably don't even know she is out there...

By Bobbie~moderatr on Monday, July 5, 2004 - 11:51 pm:

and Vicki, Just as in many child abuse cases they over look it. How many stories do you hear where and childs medical records showed abuse for years before the child was seriously injured. Or schools saw signs of abuse and will tell the stories after the fact. People don't know what to do. The assume others are doing something. Or they just don't care enough to bother. And honestly the mentally disabled scare people. They have a piece of the unknown in them and that scares everyone. So it is easier to push them off on the next person until they fall through a crack..... The mentally disabled HAVE to have someone in their corner to push for them to get all the help that they can get out there. If they don't have a strong voice saying this is wrong that is wrong and this needs done than they will not get the help they need. (I am not suggesting that Mrse be that person for this woman, I am only suggesting that she call if she sees the woman is in need of help) If this woman goes into the hospital screaming they give her a shot and she calms down they assume that the worst of it is over. They give her instructions on how to self medicate and they tell her to call for a follow up with her dr and then she goes home to suffer alone... This isn't only in the case of Mrse's neighbor this is in the case of all mentally ill that live a lone. Many family members shun them because they blame themselves and don't understand so it is easier to pretend they aren't there. On the mental health unit it is so sad to see the people that never have visitors, or the visitors that come in and you can see the fear and shame in their faces. At the mental health center/out patient therapy there are people that won't even come in with their family members (which means the mentally disabled person is likely not receiving the best care for them). I am not saying that all families are like this, I know many families where the patients emotional health is a major concern and they would walk through fire to make sure they are getting proper care but it is not always the case.

By Bea on Tuesday, July 6, 2004 - 03:22 pm:

AMEN Bobbie. Whenever I can advocate for the mentally disabled I shall. I stayed in the closet too many year because of the fear of what others would think. It's time that those with emotional disabilities are heard!!! Speak out whenever you can.

By Bobbie~moderatr on Tuesday, July 6, 2004 - 11:25 pm:

Thanks Bea. And you are right. They won't be heard unless all that are aware take the stand for them. So many can't do it on their own... and way to many are lost and alone.