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Moms View Message Board: General Discussion: Archive June 2004: Anger Issues--little update
Well, we talked last night, if you can call it that.
(((((HUGS))))) I know you'll get through this one way or another, and you'll be happier either way. I'll make sure to add you in my prayers tonight.
{{{Cat}}} Thoughts and Prayers are with you. Things will work out for the best. Keep us updated.
Hope it all works out for the best!!! Thanks for the update and I am glad you talked with him.
You may have taken a big step last night, Cat. Hugs and prayers.
Cat I will be praying for you & your family! Don' forget that if it's affecting your children it may be better if you guys do break it off or spend some time apart. Remember Dr. Phil's philosophy - It's better to be from a broken home than to live in a broken home! Just something to think about. Cause if you can't not argue about arguing then you should probably both take some time to cool off.
Cat, I know this is such a hard thing to live with, and an even harder decision to make. Whatever you do, we will be here for you. Congratulations on taking the first step, towards figuring it out, towards counseling, towards some time apart. Where ever it leads, you were proactive and made a choice not to take it this time and that deserves some applause. Hugs to you and the boys!
Cat, I agree with Ame, you may have taken a big step last night. Standing up to someone, even if it's someone you love, is sometimes one of the hardest things to do. BTDT.
(((Cat)))
(((Cat))) Last night must have been difficult, but it was the right thing to do for yourself and your children.
(((((Cat))))))
Cat I will keep you in my prayers. It was a big step and the right thing to do. Maybe since it was put out there last night you could talk to him, write him a letter, or e-mail him today.
(((Cat)))
You said "I know God can do anything, but I don't see this working". It's very possible that it's 'not working' because the answer to your prayer is "no, my will is for you not to stay with him."
(((Cat)))
(((Cat)))
{{{{Cat}}}} I am glad you took a step forward last night. Hang in there. We are all here for you.
Please please please don't let your husband swear at your kids. I know this is easier said than done. I read a book about men like this once, and it said the chances are he won't change, but you can draw a line at certain things that you stand up for and say, "Do not EVER swear at the kids like that!" No wishy washy about that one particular thing, whatever else you decide to do. Good luck to you. Also, check this out from Dear Abby a week ago:
(((((CAT)))))
Thank you all for the incredible support. You really don't know what it means.
Prayers and hugs, Cat. And yes, you have to put your children first - but don't forget yourself.
My hugs and prayers, Cat.
I'm praying for you and for your situation, Cat. You and your dh are quite a bit younger than me and my dh, but your dh's behavior sounds very similar to the behavior my dh has been exhibiting. The strange thing about my dh is that this behavior is totally unlike the behavior he has exhibited for most of our marriage. We have been married for almost thirty-three years, and until the past year or so he never behaved like this. He appears angry with everyone most of the time. The smallest things can just set him off. When he's driving the car, he is constantly angry with other drivers. In restaurants he is constantly dissatisfied with the service. He is short tempered with me and with other family members. Sometimes I wonder, though, if this doesn't all stem from some sort of depression. He did admit to me about a month or so ago that he did feel depressed. I tried to encourage him to talk with his doctor about it when he went for his last physical, but he didn't do it. Men seem to have a very difficult time talking with their doctor or anyone else about depression because they see it as an admission of weakness. Does your dh seem to suffer from depression? I really don't know what I would do if I were in your situation. My children are gone from home so I don't have to consider the effect of his behavior on them. Then I also have all the good years before he ever exhibited any behavior like this. Please keep us updated. We're here for you, and you can use us as a sounding board anytime you like.
(((HUGS)))
((((((CAT)))))))
I'll be praying for you Cat. How are things going?
We haven't talked again. We haven't really seen each other. Last night he was only home for about 15 minutes when the kids and I left for karate and when we got home he'd left for his class (getting his degree). He didn't get home until almost 10 and I was about asleep by then.
Sounds like to me that he is just totally stressed out, and tired. My cure is to give him a st. john's wort pill. It will calm his nerves. My dad would get mad at any little thing, he now takes st.john's wort, and it leveled him out. If you can get him to take it, you may be able to talk to him calmly. I don't think I would be so quick to say divorce is the only answer, unless you can truley say you do not love him anymore. It is a terrible spot to be in. I would try the st. john's wort pill, talk to the pharmacist give them a list of any other med's to make sure it is compatable. Honestley, my dad is like night and day , you know when he did not take his pill, he is just a big grouch. Let us know if you decided to get the pills I think you will be suprised if you do. Good luck we will be here for you.
I understand your inner struggle as a Christian. I would probably be feeling the same struggle if I were in your situation. It is obvious that both of your are emotionally bankrupt. You are both telling one another that you don't feel loved but neither of you have anything left to give. I would encourage you to find ways to show your admiration for things he DOES do well. Try to fill one another's "love tank" so that you have some hope for the change in your marriage. I know that it is your job to consider your children, but I promise you if you work everything out they are by no means going to hate you for it in ten years. Children want to come home to a haven of harmony between parents when they are older. I know this can be fixed! I have seen it soooooo many times. It is a matter of unconditional love, patience, humility and desire to make it work. Most of it on his part, of course. It is amazing what a humble word of admiration and encouragement can do to someones pride/ego! My prayers are with you.
Mrse, I'm in no way saying that St. John's Wort wasn't a good thing for your dad, but in many people, it is contraindicated. And even in some where it isn't contraindicated, there have been less than favorable reactions to it. You should never take any medications or supplements without a doctor's supervision, particularly in the case of possible depression or anger management because chemical imbalances in your own body can cause adverse reactions, even with the simplest of medications, natural or otherwise. All I'm saying is, you really should be careful. What works for one won't necessarily work for another. And, in another vein, many issues cannot be solved simply from taking a pill. Again, I don't mean this in a derogatory manner, this is just my input.
one thing that might help, that he shouldn't have an adverse reaction to, because the body needs it, is a multi-b-vitamin complex. B-12 especially helps to stabalize and level moods. But I think counseling, and his desire to change is in order. I agree with Monica, I did this with my DH before we got married and it worked like a charm. I started with telling him I loved him, and making sure to give him a kiss when he left, and before bed every single day, no matter if he made me mad or what, I still do it to this day. I then would tell him something he did that I was proud of every day or so, no matter how small. He started to respond, and was more affectionate, and less tempramental. Then I started writting long love letters once a week, and little things every day, like I'd write I love you on the bathroom mirror after a shower, and notes like "have a GREAT day at work today, I'll miss you!" Before I knew it we were going out to eat more, and not at Sonic either, and he was writting me love letters too. It really does help, and he'll feel like you love him, he won't doubt it. Don't tell him what you're doing though, just do it, he'll notice, and probably feel more relaxed, and ready to talk. Just give this method a few weeks.HTH
Oh Cat, I understand. I'm sure he's also dealing with the fear of retirement. If he's at all like my DH, the military is all he really knows. The military way is to express anger rather then fear. BUT, as many have said, you and the kids aren't at fault here, and he really needs to learn to vent his stress and fear appropriately. Community Service may be able to advise you on some pre-retirement family counseling. God bless you all. You'll be in my prayers.
Karen, I have been looking up st. john's wort, and the only thing I can find about effects is sun sensitivity. It also said that you can consult a pharmacist or a doctor, which I told cat, as other med's might not mix. What have you found out about st.john's wort?. It is for depression, and aniexty, which is what her dh is experiencing, ( we think). I only looked at a few sites on the net, but I can not see what you are talking about it being so terrible, unless you just do not like people taking pills period, and that is the opinion that you were trying to get accross, I am not sure. If he was to go on med's from the doctor he would be put on depression pills for a year to start, and could become dependant on them. Please let me know where you are coming from, I honestly did not think me posting that suggestion was so terrible, not any more terrible than the post's suggesting she divorce him, after only hearing her side of the story.
St. John's wart is an herb, NOT regulated or tested by the FDA like a medication would be. It has been long used to treat depression, and many people have success with it, but it is still not evaluated by the FDA. There ARE counteractions, and contraindications with this herb. My doctor had told me exactly what Karen was trying to convey, that the herbal supplements can be more harm than good, and should be pursued with caution. I also tend to agree that it may not be wise to just take a supplement without ruling out hormonal imbalances, and more importantly cognitive therapy. We don't know his side, but there may be things behind his anger that NO ONE knows, and this may be something he needs to work through. Many times what we *think* is physical ends up being emotionally based. (think headaches caused by tension, but the person thinks there is a physical cause) Mrse, no one is saying your suggestion was bad, or worthless, just applying our knowledge to the situation as we all do here.
Mrse, I will be blunt. You are not a doctor. In my opinion, for you to suggest a medication for someone you don't know, for a situation you don't know much about, and without training in medicine or chemistry, is in my opinion irresponsible. And to suggest a pharmacist as a medical adviser is also irresponsible - plus the simple fact that if a pharmacist suggests medication for a third party who hasn't consulted him/her (which you recommend) is most likely a violation of law and regulation for the pharmacist.
Also st johns wort is bad for fertility. in case anyone is thinking about it.
Mrse, I have no problems with people taking pills at all and I didn't say that St. John's Wort is terrible; this was what I said: "You should never take any medications or supplements without a doctor's supervision, particularly in the case of possible depression or anger management because chemical imbalances in your own body can cause adverse reactions, even with the simplest of medications, natural or otherwise. All I'm saying is, you really should be careful. What works for one won't necessarily work for another. And, in another vein, many issues cannot be solved simply from taking a pill."
Thank you all for your suggestions. I do realize some herbal supplements can be very useful. Even if St. John's Wart could help, dh has to realize he has a problem before he can treat it, with an herbal supplement or rx from a doctor. And Ginny is correct, I ALWAY check out any medications--otc, herbal or rx--before anyone in my family takes anything. Robin has tried several different medications (some very strong ones) and I've always checked into them and their side effects first, by internet search, asking the prescribing doc or the pharmisist. Crystal is also correct in saying if it's not a physical problem, it won't help. While I'm not ruling out my dh may have a physical problem (chemical imbalance or whatever), I suspect a lot of this has to do with the way his dad treated him. Dh is parenting how he was parented. I am also not a doctor and can't make that professional determination.
Glad things are going a little better Cat. I know you really want your marriage to work, so I am sending prayers that your dh realizes he has a problem and seeks help/works with you to fix it. I am a firm believer that anyone can change if they really want too. All it takes is admitting there is a problem and seeking the help needed to overcome it. I guess I am just an eternal optimist.
Ok, I apoligize I did not see, in the rules of the mom board where it stated, that we could not suggest a herb. If one is going to be told anything is inapproperate then I feel it should have been done so not on the board but through the persons email. I have seen suggestions for med's before on the board , but I did not see anyone getting heck for it. If the moderators are worried about consequences of someone suggesting a product, then it should be in the agreement to signing on as a member, that anyone suggesting a product that post will be removed. Thier are also other issues that should be looked at as well as the drug issue, and that is when people are having personal problems, people have been known to bluntly say leave your husband etc..but if they left their husband that would be their choice, no one is making them it is a suggestion, just like the st.john's wort. Ones words on the board can get twisted also, I did not tell anyone to give , anyone else st.john's wort in thier porage without their knowledge. I just read the waiver of liability, I feel I am within my right to post my opinion, as the mom's board is taking no responsibility for my actions. If suggesting st. john's wort is wrong then everyone better be on their toes, and not suggest as much as suntan lotion, as it can be absorbed into the skin, and get into the blood stream. I am just trying to make a point here because I do feel attacked and that is clearly in the rules of what a post should not be about. ( I am sorry cat this all had to go at the end of your post) I did not mean to harm anyone with the suggestion, I will not be suggesting anymore medications( as harmless as I thought it was) but I will be calling attention to other posts that have done the same thing.
Mrse, I'm sorry you are feeling attacked. That was not my intent. Many people post suggestions for treatments, etc. You aren't violating any posting guidelines. I was simply posting a response to you about the St. John's Wort, and trying to make a point regarding it. I'm sorry if I offended anyone.
Everybody just chill!! Take a ... oh wait, nevermind... *EG* KIDDING! I'm kidding!! Anyway, Cat Bea brought up a very valid point, I've BTDT with the military and anger issues. A lot of the problem that read to the ultimate end to my marriage was from the military and the effects it had in my Ex's temper. Soldiers are taught to "Suck it up, and drive on" so they often become "bottlers". In my case, when we did seek help for his mood swings, we were ignored. With your DH's pending retirement he probably feels even more pressure, because the military is all he knows. The civilian life is foreign, and the job market sucks, so he may be streeing about that. Who knows... but ultimately he cannot be helped until he sees he has a problam, and it seems like he is unable to admit that yet. I hope he can see and admit it before it's too late, for all of you. Hang in there!
Oh, Chrystal. I know exactly how the military works. I was active duty for 2 1/2 years myself and I really can see how the stress of 19-20 years can build up. Add to that how dh was raised and wow, it's just a distater waiting to be let loose. He does need to see there is a problem before he can get help, though. Over the past few days I can tell he's trying. I don't know if this is something he can fix on his own, though. And that's exactly what he'll try to do. He'll think he doesn't need anyone's help. That's the way he is. We'll see what happens. Thanx, and I'm hanging in there.
I didn't realize you had served... sorry!! I'm glad he's at least making an effort...
Boy do I understand the "Do it on your own" syndrome. I have his brother living here, Cat. I think that is also from their military experience. Revealing any type of emotional problem can lose you a clearance. In your husband's situation, this could ruin his future chances of employment in the Federal sector. *&^% The military!! They claim to want to help military families, and then put hurdles like these to prevent soldiers from getting help. STUPID STUPID STUPID!!!
Yes, Bea, it's always a great thing to hear when you ask your dh if his career is more important than his family and he says, "Yes." I think "Military Family" is one of the biggest oxy-morons I've EVER heard. I'm sure dh is concerned about the effects of counsiling on his career (and clearance) and what it could do for his job market when he retires. I think I've told you (at Christina's when we had our get-together) that dh is OSI (Office of Special Investigations), the Army's equivilant of CID. So yeah, that could be a valid concern. BUT, it's still not more important than your family, imho. That's just me though.
Cat, make sure you let him know you see the changes he has been working hard to make. Do it in a simple way and not a topic of its own. Just a comment on the side. Obviously he heard you when you guys "spoke" the other day, and he will hear your compliments too. Maybe you can ask him if there is anything special you can do for him so he can have some time to relax? And don't forget to take the time to touch him. Maybe a foot rub or back rub.
I agree with Dana. In my house. I have noticed if I make him aware that I am noticing his attempts he strives to do more. If I just act like I don't notice then he slips backwards and will resist any suggestions. Sees suggestions as attacks and judgements. Major issues with being made to feel stupid or worthless (fathers played head games with him). With Rob all it takes is a smile, a touch and if it is a major hurdle I will just come right out and praise him for it. I am really sorry you are having to go through this too. But I know where you are and I can tell you that if he is hearing you there is hope.... And I think he is hearing you. Prayers and BIG warm fuzzy hugs to you Cat.....
(((Cat))) you have a lot on your plate and seem like you are very strong. I hope things change for you soon.
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It probably wasn't the best time, but after almost two weeks of trying to wait for a "best time" I finally figured it wasn't going to come. He had yelled at (and sworn and put down) the boys for something trivial (imho) and I told him I didn't like the way he talked to them. We started arguing about how he's too strict and how I "coddle" (sp) them and he asked what I wanted. I said I'd like to learn to communicate without him getting angry and me getting upset. He said he didn't think that could happen. Then he asked if I wanted him to leave and I said "No, but if you don't want to work on this problem and try and fix it then yes, I do because it's not fair for all of us to live like this." He didn't want to talk and kept saying "You can see I'm mad and you just keep pushing me." I said I didn't want it to just get swept under the rug again--we need to fix this. Of course we didn't fix it last night, but I guess I've at least given him a lot to 'chew on'. We haven't spoken since about 5:30 last night. He wouldn't even eat dinner with us. He just sat on the couch watching baseball. I know God can do anything, but I can't see this working. I told him I didn't feel like he loved me anymore and he said the feeling was mutual. I almost said "I DO love you, I just don't LIKE you right now" but I held my tongue. We'll see what happens now. This isn't a new problem. We've been like this for years and we both know it. I feel like we really haven't had a marriage for a long time, just a living arraignment. Well, that's where we are for now. I'll keep you all updated. I'm so glad I have all of you to come to--to vent, ask for advise, have shoulders to cry on (and that's one thing I didn't do last night--cry. I usually get really emotional when we argue, but I held it together last night). I do plan to talk to some "live, in person" friends today--to vent and ask for prayers. I'd like to ask you guys for prayers, too. tia 