This is one of the main reasons I joined this group. I have one daughter, four in March, and I still feel like a new mother. My husband and I are totally out of control. She does not mind either one of us, and it seems whatever we say, she wants to do the opposite. She cannot take no for an answer. It's a major tantrum if we say no, and you can imagine how many times a day we have to say no. It's a major fight to make her use the potty, to dress her, to brush her teeth, I could go on and on. I work, and the morning times are horrendous. By the time I get her in the car and off to daycare, my neck muscles are so tight, they twitch the rest of the way to the office. Of course, I have to say she is also the sweetest and prettiest little girl in the world. We just have major issues with minding and tantrums. I have tried time out, taking toys away, taking computer and TV away. I've tried spankings. Does anybody have any suggestions? Thanks!

By Ladypeacek on Sunday, February 15, 2004 - 01:11 pm:

Well i can tell you that with a 4 year old its easier than a 1 year old, lol. When my oldest dd was 4 and tried the tantrum thing ( she started late too) we would laugh at her until she got so mad she was turning blue!! After about a week of laughing at her when she threw tantrums she stopped. I know it sounds mean but nothing else we tried worked so we tried that. Plus it helped us not to get so overwhelmed, it was a better kind of release than yelling and pulling our hair out!! My one year old has just started it and we try to ignore him and laughing doesn't work with him quite yet. Hope you get through this!!

By Mommmie on Sunday, February 15, 2004 - 02:03 pm:

So your little cutie is oppositional, huh? Have you checked out Oppositional Defiant Disorder? There is a great website for parents of difficult to handle kids called www.conductdisorders.com that might be of interest to you. As you've discovered these kindof kiddos can't be parented in the typical fashion. They simple don't respond to the things typical kids respond to as far as punishments and behavior modifications.

One of the forum boards is for parents of kids age 5 and under. They refer to their difficult child as "gfg" meaning gift from God. These kids go beyond the normal terrible 2s and 3s and 4s....

I'm not telling you your child needs to have a diagnosis or anything. Sometimes parents are grateful to know that IT'S NOT THEM. It's not anything they are doing right or wrong. These kids brains are hard wired differently and need to be parented differentedly. Parents who have "perfect kids" have no idea what it's like and often give a lot of unsolicitated advice and/or say things like, You have to show her who's boss, I would never let my child get away with that, My child would never do that, etc. Grrrr... they just don't get it. Often times the more punitive the parent's punishments, the WORSE the kid's behavior gets.

A good book is The Explosive Child.

By Juliem on Sunday, February 15, 2004 - 02:51 pm:

Thanks so much. Being a first time parent, we are constantly wondering if it is us. And like you said, the more punishment we do, it is worse. She can cry for thirty minutes without stopping. I am definitely going to check out that website. My nephew is ADHD and they believed he had the oppositional disorder, so I am not offended. I just want to make things better!

By Pamt on Sunday, February 15, 2004 - 06:17 pm:

Julie, you mentioned all of the things you have tried, but have you tried any ONE thing consistently? Consistency in discipline is the key..no lame threats and no "if you do that one more time." It is so hard, esp. when you're frustrated, but it usually does work. I always recommend the book "1-2-3 Magic" which is just a simple breakdown of a consistent timeout method. We don't spank and time-out has worked wonders with both of my boys. We started using it when they were about 2 y/o. Melanie will probably pop in (Hi Melanie!) and recommend "Parenting with Love and Logic" which I have also heard great things about from numerous sources. My DH is a youth minister and I know he recommends the love and logic parenting style to many parents of teens. Hang in there!

By Juliem on Sunday, February 15, 2004 - 09:53 pm:

Thanks so much, everyone. You're right, Pam, I have not been consistent. A lot of times, my mood dictates things, which I know is wrong. Sometimes I can tolerate things better than others. I am definitely going to try those books. Another thing that is strange to me is she is so well behaved at daycare. Her teachers cannot believe I have a problem with her at home. At daycare, she never has bathroom accidents and at home she constantly does. If I ask her to go the potty, she says no. And making her go, I have to practically drag her in there kicking and screaming. I could kick myself for not having her ten years ago. I think I could have handled things so much better.

By Melissa on Monday, February 16, 2004 - 07:07 am:

I think it has to do with natural consecquences, if she has an accident then have her do as much of the clean up as possible just be matter of fact about it, then it will become boring to do that EVERYTIME and she will see it is easier just to go to the bathroom when she has to. Since she does this at daycare you know she can.

I work too, mornings are hard, if you aren't doing this already get everything ready the night before, lay out all clothes, put everything by the door, make any lunches you need to at night. Then you get up a half hour earlier than you do now. For DD no TV in the monings I didn't used to do that but it is a great time and sanity saver!

Start with consistancy and consequences tell her tomorrow we are going to try hard to get ready to leave on time so you can do this tell her what the plan is. If you can help me with this then you will get to put a sticker here just before we leave ( make a chart that after 5 stickers she gets something. I'd pick a fun activity with you, over a toy but whatever make it something she'll want.) If you can't help me with this I am going to be very tired and so after work I won't be able to Play with you, read
your favorite story, she'll have to go to bed sooner, whatever she wouldn't like. Then do it even if it kills you b/c it would be easier not to and she is having a fit. You can have a few fits now and be done with it by sticking to what you say or have fits forever b/c it is hard to stop them. Keep telling yourself that. I really like Love and Logic books too I don't consider myself and expert on them like a couple moms are on here but I'd say check them out.

By Juliem on Monday, February 16, 2004 - 07:32 am:

Good advice, Melissa. Thanks. Everyone is so nice and helpful here. I believe I will be here to stay!!

By Cat on Monday, February 16, 2004 - 08:58 am:

Julie, 1-2-3-Magic is a great program. I tried it with my oldest when he was about 4 and it did work. Unfortunatly, he's like a Borg (Star Trek lol) and he adapted (nothing works for very long with him). Of course he's got other problems, too. He's never been officially dx'd ODD, but it's been brought up a LOT. (he has other official dx's that pretty much cover that) Check your local library for the book or video and give it a try. You do have to be consistant, though. Good luck.

By Kim on Monday, February 16, 2004 - 10:49 pm:

I use 123 magic on Kayla who sounds very similar. Mornings are the worst time of day. Kayla has been diagnosed with adhd and odd. Does your daughter have any of those symptoms? Routine helps, but her meltdowns are also associated with being overwhelmed by her senses. Is it only the word no that causes your dds meltdowns?