Problem with a neighbor...
Moms View Message Board: General Discussion: Archive December 2007:
Problem with a neighbor...
Yes, it's only our first month living here and I'm going crazy with the neighbors behind us.
A few weeks ago, on a Saturday, they left their dog outside all day long and she barked ALL DAY long. The next day, there was a Broncos game and I could hear a guy in there SCREAMING at the top of his lungs. I think they had their windows open but I desperately needed a nap and both my mom and Connor were asleep.
Fast forward to last night...I hear the woman yelling "Get in here! GET IN HERE!" to her dog at THREE A.M. It woke me and Scott up out of a dead sleep. She did this for at least 3 minutes.
I feel I have to write them a letter because I don't think they know we can hear them. It's a tight neighborhood as far as backyards go, but I love the area otherwise.
Do I type up a letter and put my name on it? How would you word it? I want to give them the benefit of the doubt because we used to have a dog too, we love football, etc. I've never actually talked to them before because it's so cold now, so I don't want to get off on the wrong foot.
Auuugghhh...
I wouldn't send a letter. It is very impersonal, and I think might make them feel very defensive.
I think you should go over sometime when she is there, and say, as gently and nicely as you can, something like:
I am guessing you don't know how far your dog's barking carries, but I have a little child and a sick mom, and when the dog is barking outside it really upsets them. And see how she reacts. If she just gets defensive and huffy, then you have to walk away.
If she is defensive and huffy, can you talk to other nearby neighbors and tell them you don't know how to approach the problem, but the noise of the dog and yelling is a problem for your family - do they have any experience or can they provide some insight?
Whatever you do, don't send an anonymous letter! Because you are the "new" neighbor, they will likely guess who it is from, and you will get a reputation in the neighborhood of being someone who sends anonymous letters - you can bet it would be shared with at least a couple of neighbors.
Ditto Ginny, and maybe take a plate of cookies when you go? 
Honestly, I don't mind putting my name on there and, if it were in written form she will have time to settle down and really think about a response. I also don't want to interrupt them if they're eating dinner, watching a movie, so I'd be just as guilty as them as far as interrupting goes, etc. I'm also a better communicator when I write.
Here's what I've written so far. (And, I like the idea of cookies!)
We are the new neighbors behind you, Scott and Heidi xxxxxx, with our 3 yr old son Connor. I hope we can meet in person after it starts warming up again! I didn't want to interrupt any family time you're having, hence the letter.
I wasn’t sure if you were aware or not, and I know this neighborhood had close quarters as far as backyards go, but there have been a few instances of noise. A few weeks ago, Guinness(?) your dog was kept outside for most of a Saturday and he was barking quite a bit. The next day must have been a Broncos game because we could hear the man of the house yell quite loud all afternoon. (We could hear him through our shut windows.) We are football fans too (my husband would die without the DirecTV Sunday Ticket) so we don’t want to damper any excitement, but you might want to make sure that the windows are shut? And then last night, we were wakened out of a dead sleep at 3am when you were trying to get your dog inside. We used to have a dog that did the same thing…would a leash help at that hour? Our dog would get up for no reason other than she was bored/hot/wanted attention so we finally had to crate her at night. (She was a big yellow lab but grew to like the crate and so did we.)
I would rather go through you guys, let you know who we are, and use this as a communication tool to resolve any issues. We aren’t the type to complain to an HOA, etc. I’d rather give neighbors the benefit of the doubt. We heard that we might have a lot in common with you as well! (Enter personal information here about deployments, etc.)
Feel free to email me and I hope you guys have a great weekend!
Sincerely,
blah blah enter email here
I would reconsider the letter. I agree with everyone above, it is very impersonal, and it would probably irritate me to get one, especially if I never met the person sending it.
I would go over, not at dinner time, but during the afternoon this weekend. I would introduce myself, and talk for awhile. Then, I would bring up about the dog barking, etc. I am sure if she knows you have a toodler, and a sick mother that you are home with, she will be more thoughtful about the noise.
To be honest, if I got a letter, even if it was signed, I would probably just toss it. However, if a neighbor came over, took the time to introduce themselves, and then brought up the issue, I would be more receptive.
And, if all else fails, you might want to buy a white noise machine.
I hate to say it, but I would also reconsider the letter. If I got it, I would probably not have a good feeling as the neighbor. Ditto Debbie on going over.
Our new neighbor has a dog that doesn't bark all day, but barks the ENTIRE time we are outside or when my own dogs go out. We live in the country and are not too close to him (he's one of the only neighbors in this area). It is RIDICULOUS, but honestly I don't see what we can do about it. He doesn't want to be around the dog, so therefore he leaves it outside. If he can listen to that dog bark all day right outside his door, he surely could care less about what we or anyone else thinks, you know? I've met him and he seems like a nice guy, but I really can't change the way he feels about his dog. He thinks he's doing something good for her by leaving her outside all day, when in reality he needs to take her for a walk.
Good luck resolving your situation. I hope we never have to live in a neighborhood because among many other things, I will never have any friends because of situations like this. I have a big mouth and little control over it.
We do have a white noise machine in Connor's room which helps him sleep better. The noise they make is beyond a white noise machine however and I'm not going to have constant white noise around my whole house. I personally cannot sleep with white noise at night either. If I wake up, it's very difficult to get back to sleep. (My DH as well.)
We're going to be gone early tomorrow morning to go skiing and won't be back until late Sunday. The both work. Not sure how I can do a meet/greet in a timely fashion without interrupting their evening, and all this noise happening again tonight...they would be mad I didn't bring it up earlier, etc. Augh.
I've got it...I'll leave them my phone number to call at their earliest convenience and then start off by asking them if their dog was ok on Thursday night. He could have been sick and I don't want to go off on them if they are going through a hardship.
Deanna, I'm like you...I don't always filter my mouth either! LOL
Well, since you're going to be gone this weekend, I would go over Monday after dinner. I would take this weekend to think about what you want to say. Even if you interrupt their evening, you will probably get a better response, if you go over. If you talk with her first, she will know you, and probably be more willing to accomodate you with the noise issues. If you write a letter, especially since you don't know her, you are just an annonymous person complaining to her.
We live in a neighborhood with small backyards. We are lucky now because the house behind us hasn't sold yet. I hope every day that it doesn't sell anytime soon. I really hope that when someone buys it, they are good neighbors because we will be living pretty close!
We were posting at the same time.
I also would reconsider the letter. Like Debbie, I wouldn't take too well to a letter I received from a person I have never meet. I think an introduction and talk would go a lot further in solving your problem and promoting positive neighbourhood relationships.
I wouldn't write the letter either. With you being the "new people", you will get off on the wrong foot with people who might otherwise become your friends.
With the holiday season upon us, I think that I would invite them over for dessert one evening, just to get to know them. After the visit, you will have a pretty good idea of what type of people they are. If they seem nice, then the NEXT time I saw them, I'd bring up about the noise. On the other hand, if they turn out to be people you don't think that you will pursue a friendship with, then I'd bring it up that evening.
Good luck!
I still say don't write the letter, but if you feel that is the best way, stop at the end of your first paragraph and DON'T use the part about "I would rather go through you guys, let you know who we are, and use this as a communication tool to resolve any issues. We aren’t the type to complain to an HOA, etc. I’d rather give neighbors the benefit of the doubt.". That sounds like a threat - if you don't cooperate I will notify someone and you'll be in trouble.
Your first paragraph is fairly non-threatening, and maybe mentioning something in common is a good idea.
But I still recommend doing it in person, not with a letter. You say it will give them time to think about it, but a lot of times when people think about things they get angry. The problem with a letter is similar to e-mail communication - it is impersonal and you can't communicate or perceive body language, which is a big part of how we communicate.
Since you mentioned that it's getting colder and most likely the windows will be closed, I would let this go completely.
Walk over next week and introduce yourself. Don't worry about interrupting their evening. Go after dinner or in the afternoon. Bring cookies or a bottle of wine, etc.
Next time if the dog is barking all day, I would go over then to address the barking dog.
I would be neighborly first, without the letter. To be honest, the letter and the way you worded it, would make me angry. It sounds condescending.
Have a great weekend skiing. My kids are asking me to take them this year but we live too far from any ski places.
don't do a letter unless you want to be unliked forever. Really.
I have a dog that is a huge nuisance. They stay inside almost all the time. But my neighbors dogs are out all the time. Two different ones. Well they all get along fine. But my dogs love to talk back and forth. If anything goes on outside my dogs go nuts. I try not to leave them out all day, but there are times I am just not home and that is the best choice for my dogs. There really isn't much I can do. I am aware, I try to take notice, but short of a shock collar (which we have tried), and getting rid of the dogs, there isn't anything I can do.
So a neighbor sending me a letter would irritate me. I know it can be an issue, if they spoke to me I would say, I know, I really try to keep them in all day, but they do have to pee. I am trying, there names are, feel free to tell them to hush.
As far as yelling, lol...good luck with that.
I just think noise is part of a tight neighborhood, you will adapt to it, or put shrubs against your fences to help quiet it.
If it were nightly, or every saturday night. But you really have 3 different issues over holiday times in a month. I would let it go.
Guys, you need to read my post above. I'm not going to do the letter after all. Their dog could have been sick and I just needed time to cool off.
We are simply a family that keeps quiet and I've come to the realization that they are a family that is noisy. Even their phone is loud and I can hear it ring at times. There was another family like this in MD. They are who they are.
My DH had an even better idea. He said we should just introduce ourselves with a bottle of wine and then, down the road, mention the noise as a joke. By then, we could have their phone number and Scott could call the guy during football season to talk trash about the Broncos. LOL
Thanks for all your input. I really do appreciate it.
Oh I see. I read the post above as you were going to put your phone number at the bottom of the letter.
Ditto Paula. That's how I read your post also, Heidi.
Isn't it lucky for us that we MV to vent and give us a chance to rethink things?
I'm glad you aren't going to do the letter too!
A total aside, but...
I personally recommend NEVER giving a gift of wine to people you don't know. We aren't drinkers and have had people give us wine and THEN ask us if we drink wine. Puts us in a very awkward situation. Also, having had a grandfather who was a recovered alcoholic and an aunt who is a total alcoholic in denial, you just don't know someone's history with alcohol. Just felt compelled to say that. Carry on
I think a bottle of wine is fine for a gift. If they don't drink wine then they can pass it to someone else or serve it for a dinner party.
Just like cookies, these people may be over weight, who knows...it's the gesture that matters.
Pam, I totally agree. My brother-in-law is a recovering alcoholic. That is a disease you are never cured of. All it could take is someone handing him a bottle of wine and then leaving him to himself for him to have a complete breakdown. It's not worth it. Not when there are many other gifts to give.
As for cookies and over weight people, doesn't even compare to handing an alcoholic who is trying to get his life under control a bottle of alcohol. It's like giving a suicidal person a gun.
Pam, I totally agree with you about the wine. I feel the same way. DH and I don't drink either, so a gift of alcohol would be a waste of money. I also feel guilty about compelling someone else to drink, or worse yet, to end their sobriety (in the case of recovering) because they were given a gift of alcohol. Perhaps some sparkling cider or a small gift basket of cheese and crackers, etc.
In the case of cookies or a cake, as was pointed out, they could be diabetic or have other dietary restrictions. That would be awful to receive a nice gift and not be able to enjoy it. That's why I thought of a gift basket with gourmet popcorn, etc.
Kaye also has a good point. Unfortunately, when you live in a tightly populated neighbourhood, noises of everyday life go with it. Crying babies, barking dogs, couples arguing, loud TV's, etc.. It is a part of life. If you don't want these noises, then perhaps a home on several acres of land and more space around you is more suitable.
No matter what you give, if it's a consumable, there is a "chance" the person will not be able to eat or drink it. There are some people who can't even eat popcorn. Your only "safe" bet is water - so ... how about a little holiday decoration? Oh - wait - they may not celebrate holidays! Maybe some balloons - no, they may have a latex allergy or the dog may eat the mylar and choke ...
Yes, this is ridiculous, but really we could make a case against anything.
Let's not turn this into a debate and just agree to use our own best judgement when bringing "gifts" to people we don't know well
As far as noise, that's exactly why our house is in the middle of 2.5 acres - and even then my neighbors will have the occasional party and I will hear their music. We are moving to a house in the middle of 5 acres and I suspect even there I will hear the neighbors at some point.
Ame
Ame...touche!
When we lived in our old house, we lived fairly close to our neighbors. The neighbor guy liked listening to his music, LOUD. The trouble was, I worked nights and one time, during the cold time of the year, I could hear his music, in my bedroom, with all the windows shut. My bedroom was next to his living room. We knew these neighbors though, so I called him and asked him to please turn his music down. He did.
Wow, I'm not going to debate, but I can't believe that there are people who would even begin to compare alcoholism with anything else. With an allergic reaction, you are not at risk of giving in to your addiction and doing something that could kill you. And to add the joke about a dog eating the balloon and choking in comparison to an alcoholic consuming the alcohol while in recovery...I guess you have to be touched by the disease to take it seriously.
And Heidi, not trying to hijack your post at all and I'm sorry for bringing it here, but as someone who has dealt with the pain for years, I had to reply. But only once.
I do understand about the loud neighbors. We have a guy across the road from us who likes to crank up his four-wheeler around 3 or 4 in the morning and ride up and down the road as fast as he can. He's a real jerk though, and we don't dare do anything to tick him off for fear of retaliation. Thank God we are moving soon! I do hope you are able to figure out something for the noise.
A bottle of wine is a perfect gift. To say that you shouldn't give it because you don't know someone's history with alcohol is ridiculous. I'm sorry, but that's JMHO, and there is alcoholism in my family as well!
We don't drink wine EVER, and if it were given to us as a gift, I would appreciate it. It would either sit on the shelf for 2 years or I would give it to another friend who would drink it.
My only thing is that Heidi, *you're* the new neighbor, so shouldn't they be bringing YOU something??
OMG, you guys! LOL You are cracking me up. Water, LOL. I'll think about our first gift. Allergies do come to mind and I wouldn't have even thought about alcoholism. Beyond that, I won't give it any more thought.
And...There is noise, and then there is **wake you up at 3am** noise...and **screaming for 3 hours noise** and then **dog barking ALL DAY noise**. C'mon. A car with loud music here and there or some dog barking, no biggie. That's why I didn't mention their phone at first. If it's ringing all day, then yes, annoying. Why in the world would your phone be so loud that your neighbors can hear it? Like I said They are who they are.
On a side note, we finally did meet them this afternoon on a whim. (We ended up not going skiing because I cannot find our ski clothes!)  We were playing with Connor in the backyard and her kids accidentally threw a toy in our yard, so we chatted.
Anyway, it was funny because she had mentioned her deployments, kids, that she's a SAHM too, and then she asked, "So are you guys football fans?" We said "yes" and she replied, "So, have you heard my husband scream yet??" We started laughing (nicely) and so did she. Apparently one of the other neighbors complained to her and she is aware. She mentioned "he's trying to control it" and invited us over for a Sunday lunch and football watching afternoon, which was very sweet.
Thank you guys for letting me vent here and get rid of my awful social graces...that's why I have you guys and my DH. I swear he should run for office one day but I keep telling him I'd ruin his chances by running my mouth...he just laughs and says there's no way anyway because, after Afghanistan, he hates politics. LOL
love you guys...
Adena, obviously this is a personal and emotional issue for you. I respect your reasons for not wanting to give someone a gift of a bottle of wine. They are your reasons and as such are valid for you and for others as well. And sadly, you presume incorrectly that alcoholism has not touched my life.
You say "With an allergic reaction, you are not at risk of giving in to your addiction and doing something that could kill you". Actually, you are. What if you bring the shrimp plate and this is the time someone stops breathing from eating shellfish? Or, you didn't know that the brownies you brought were baked next to ones with nuts and someone had a severe nut allergy? Or someone with an allergy loves this thing and just can't resist and then is reaching for the epipen? Someone close to me, an alcoholic, describes the disease as that - a deadly allergy to alcohol.
Anytime you bring a gift, there is the chance that it could be harmful to the person. My joke was not about alcoholism, but about the lengths we go to as a society to "over-think" things to the point where it becomes ridiculous.
We have to be cautious. We have a duty to use good judgement. But gift giving needs to be something that is not fraught with danger. It should be something we enjoy giving.
That was to whole point to my joke. Certainly not to make light of alcoholism or it's deadly consequences for those who suffer from the disease and those who suffer with someone who has the disease.
Ame
I understand exactly what you mean, Ame, and I do appreciate you explaining about your joke.
I said I wouldn't go on with this, but I do just want to make one point.
Those with alcoholism have one difference than those with allergies.
If you are an alcoholic, your body needs the alcohol. You can't control your body's need for the alcohol.
If you have an allergy, you may want the item you are allergic to, but you do not have a need for it. It is a very controllable urge with allergies. Not so with alcoholism.
I understand completely that wine is an acceptable gift. I don't have a problem with that. I just had the problem with the comparisons of alcoholism to allergies.
Oops! Just saw your post, Heidi. I am SO happy that you got to meet her and discuss her husband's loud antics! At least you do know he's working on it. That probably makes you feel some better, huh? I'm sure you had that "OMG, what have we gotten into" feeling when all of this started going on right when you first moved it!
Too bad when you start looking at houses, you can't live there a few weeks to see what kind of people you have to deal with!
I'm so glad everything worked out with your neighbor, Heidi! I wish I had belonged to M.V. about five years ago. I could have used some advice for a situation similar to the one with your neighbors. I made the mistake of approaching our new neighbor when my emotions were really high. (Animal neglect.:-( This just pushes me over the edge.) My poor dh. He ran after me but was too late. The guy answered the door and he was this huge guy! Oh my. I got him angry and dh had to calm the guy down. We ended up moving months later, but it couldn't have been soon enough. In this case, I think a note would have been better, lol!
You did well, Heidi.:-)
Oops, double post...sorry.
Last year, our next door neighbor shoveled our sidewalk and our whole driveway. It was such a nice thing. I took him some cookies, but asked if he was diabetic, or allergic to nuts. He was neither!
Adena an alcoholic, with help can control his/her need for it. I know several people that are alcoholics, they however are in treatment & no longer make the choice to drink.
My fil is an alcoholic, he doesn't drink everyday, but does go on binges. My biological father was an alcoholic when he allowed my dad to adopt us, but has been sober for many years.
It is an addiction that can be helped IF the person that has the addiction WANTS the help.
That said...
I am glad that you had a chance to meet your neighbor Heidi & I hope that they quiet down for you. I know that my husband is loud & my dog is a barker. I try to keep everyone quiet, but that doesn't always work.
Adena, kind of funny about your living their first comment. When we moved to cinci, we had a real nut job for a neighbor here in texas. So when we were looking at houses I drove the neighborhood, looked for kids and at the house we bought, actually spoke to several of the neighbors that we would share a yard with. Well the one that I spoke with most, she was lovely, encouraging, our kids were the same age, ulitmatly I couldn't stand. My first impression was so wrong. We were SOO different. She was so unfriendly. She sent an anon letter to me about my dog, and then slipped to a mutual friend..oops. Turns out, my friend was in charge of my dog that weekend, so her letter was misaimed..LOL. Anyway, my point, it is just a crap shoot who moves next to you, and whether you get a long!
I'm inclined to wonder, myself, why one would take a gift when making an informal visit to a neighbor. A party, a dinner, a condolence visit, a thankyou for shoveling or some other favor - yes, but just to stop in, either at the neighbor's invitation or your own, for coffee or just to chat for a short time - I just don't think it is necessary or appropriate.
To sum this whole thread up....
Heidi, I am soooo glad you had a chance to talk to the woman and to get a feel for the fact that she knows there are issues. She clearly knows they are annoying neighbors, it isn't like she is in denial about it. That shows hope that you can build off of this situation.
We have neighbors that have a daughter that is the same age as the girls, she goes to school with them and they became friendly through school. We were doing sleep overs and they were playing with each other daily. The girls has a 6 year old little sister and sad to say she is a (I hate to say this but it is the truth) a spoiled brat. Big sister has to give into her every whim.. She was lying on the girls to her mom and dad. She would do things and break things and say things and then tell her parents the girls did this or that. It was getting to every day there was an issue. The last straw, they asked to sleep over and we had plans for the next morning and I said no.. She got mad and at 6 years old she threw a rock through my garage window. Needless to say I was bent out of shape and confronted her mother about it and told her that I didn't mind the older child coming around but the 6 year old was no longer welcome to play with my gilrs. She then informed me that neither of her children would be aloud to come in my yard if the 6 year old wasn't welcome and I told her if that is how it had to be then that is how it would be. They haven't been back over here since the middle of July. It isn't fair to the older girls but I can not have my children being yelled at and blamed for things because the 6 year old is believed even though the parents know she likes to tell stories/lie. The older girls play together at school and that is as far as their friendship can go.
Oh and the parents wouldn't let the older child sleep over if Dillan was home because he is 15 and he would go out in the yard and throw football or baseball with them. They said it wasn't normal for a child that is 15 to play with 10 year olds. (????) He was playing with his sisters and she just happen to be over, he does this all the time with my girls.. They turned a brother playing with his little sisters friend into something dirty and then they told their girls they weren't aloud to play with him because he might be a child molester. This is not a joke...... I was passed offended by that one. My son is a good kid and they label him because he takes the time to play with his sisters?
So when it comes to neighbors, I have been living next to one heck of one for over a year... **rolls eyes** Sorry about the rant...
(((Heidi))) this too shall pass.. Sorry you missed out on your ski trip..
bobby that is unreal. and of course i have an almost 14 year old that plays outside with her 9 year old brother, and people say how cute she likes to take care of him.
Geez, Bobbie! Since when is it not okay for siblings to play together! That 6yo is going to be a piece of work, when she is older, if no one is holding her accountable now!
No no accountability. We see the girls out in the yard often and I can tell you that she still rules the roost. I cannot get past the fact that both parents allow her behaviors to be seen as okay. She doesn't appear to have ADD or ADHD type behavior issues, this is just an out of control 6 year old. Typical spoiled child and she isn't even the youngest, they have a 2 year old too...
Thanks, Nicki...I, too, have problems when people don't take care of their pets. I have a real problem when dogs are left outside all day or when the owners aren't there to hear them bark all day. I can't imagine that barking all day isn't good for their health either...it's like a "cry" to me. There are dog daycares that they could benefit from and most dogs can be crated if needed.
We had a neighbor that left their tiny dog outside in the freezing cold without food or water for hours when we lived in MD. If Connor weren't allergic to dogs, I would have taken him/her inside myself. I did write a letter instead, but I was *fuming mad*.
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