Hillary Clinton (Again)
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Am I the only one that sees what a phony and opportunist that she is? I don't know if I like Obama, either (and not because of his race. I just don't think that he has much experience). However, he seems more genuine, and by having him in the race, it takes some of the glory away from Hillary. He seems to be very popular.
Obama visited Selma, Alabama last Sunday, the home of the civil rights movement in the 50's and 60's. He visited an African-American church. The people loved him.
Not to be outdone, Hillary shows up in the same town, at another African-American church down the road. She was quoting Scripture and talking with a phony Southern accent, and generally pandering to her audience.
Even some of the Clinton's former Hollywood backers and pals have switched to Obama because of the lack of the Clinton's integrity. (And when Hollywood turns against you for lack of character, that is HUGE! LOL!)
I just can't believe that the American people can't see through her. She will try to win at any cost. I think she's a sleaze. JMHO.
I haven't watched the news in a long while (Telletubbies is on at that time LOL), so I haven't seen this. But from what you describe it does seem a bit of a "i'm not gonna let you do one up on me." I do think she knows not to under estimate the pull that Obama carries with him.
As for her southern accent, I doubt it is fake. She is from AK. And I know when I am around my mothers side of the family (AL) I am all about sounding country. And I don't have a southern accent (well, at least to Floridians I dont). If she was just talking in a relaxed setting, it could easily come out of her, and really there is no reason for her to work on controlling it when with others who are sounding the same.
I cant judge on her quoting scripture, I have no idea what her personal faith is. It could all be about showing it off. But I do think she is a hypicrit in many areas. Most politians are, and she is 99% politian.
Hilary Clinton is a Methodist, and has been for all of her life. And, as Dana points out, she has been a southerner all her life.
I wonder what the media would have said if Senator Clinton had not gone to Selma to honor a major commemoration of Bloody Sunday.
From what I've read in the news (and I read the news a lot), one (not some) of the Clinton's Hollywood backers, David Geffen, has "turned away" from the Clintons. One of Mr. Geffen's motives appears to be that while Bill Clinton was giving out pardons (some of which he should not have issued), he refused to grant a pardon to Leonard Peltier, an American Indian Movement activist convicted of murdering two FBI agents. Geffen was one who advocated strongly for Peltier's pardon.
I am not overly fond of her, but, given the recent headlines - about Walter Reed, the general VA mess, the U.S. attorney mess, and the testimony in the Libby trial - I must say I appreciate her recent comment that the present administration could not organize a two-car parade.
I foresee a lot of Hillary-bashing, Obama-bashing, Edwards-bashing, etc., in the months to come!
I like Hillary, but I haven't made up my mind who I am going to vote for yet, and probably won't until we get closer to the actual vote.
I didn't see anything wrong with visiting the Selma church - she's in a race for president, she should get as much exposure as she can. (I would expect that of all of the candidates.)
I don't let Hollywood opinions influence my opinion or votes, so her not getting the backing of certain multi-millionaires who are only looking out for their best interests doesn't matter much to me.
She will try to win at any cost.
I think that applies to most politicians. 
I'm not a Hilary fan, but as far as accents go, MANY people with northern or southern roots, who have relocated to another area, will tend to pick their accents back up when in a *native* area. I'm from near Atlanta and have lived in a New Orleans suburb for 40 years now, and though I don't have a southern accent (contrary to what the media and Hollywood portray, New Orleanians DON'T have a southern drawl), when I'm around southerners with accents, I will quickly pick it up. Ditto my DH, who is a native New Yorker, lived in MD for over 20 years; he's lost a lot of his NY accent after living here for 10 years, but once he's around his northern relatives, the NY accent comes right back. So I don't know if I'd necessarily call her accent phony.
And as far as Hilary visiting a church near one Obama visited, it's really no different from any other political campaign. They all do it, and it's a matter of exposure. IMO, they'd be stupid NOT to - it's all about trying to get votes, no matter who, what, where, etc.
As Sunny said, we are in for a lot of bashing, no matter *who* the actual candidates are, which is how it's always been, and continues to be, and seems to get worse each time.
Hol, it all sound like typical political BS slated towards the side of the writers opinion to me. If Hillary had gone there first, someone would have complained about Obama's intent of his visit. You can't base your opinions on what a news broad caster says or what an article reads. They are going to shine the light towards the person they support, even though they shouldn't. Dragging through the dirt and bashing the opponent is what they all do. No one and nothing is safe when it comes to winning when it comes to these people. They are all snakes underneath it all. And they are all out for their own political gain. Win at all cost, is the motto of them all. And lying and manipulating the public to not see their flaws is the job of the people that sponsor and promote the person they want in power. And even those people have ulterior motives. We are promised things by every one that runs and most of the things are things that if looked at realistically they are incapable of making happen. But we are raised to believe.. To have faith and to trust. So we do and then we complain when the things don't happen or the person makes choices we don't agree with. It is my opinion that politicians gain power by stepping on the backs of people aroung them. They are hoisted above the supporters as a mouth piece for their objective not what is best for our country and our people. Look at the cuts that have happened under the Bush presidency and the people that have gained by this and those that have lost. These cuts weren't for the people, they were done for the few. This is not the standard our country was based on.
Basically what I am trying to say is.. Don't sit to tightly on that fence because your butt is going to get sore from rocking back and forth. Someone will pull something out of Obama's closet to cause questioning of his reasons for running. And Hillary will be so dirty and tore up from being drug through the mud before this is all over... The claws will come out as we get closer to the elections..
Love you Hol.. Glad you are really involved in watching what they are doing. Means your decision will be based on who they are not just what they say they are...
I'm from northeastern Illinois, and it was my understanding that she grew up in Park Ridge, Illinois (a Chicago suburb), and only moved down to Arkansas after she and Bill were married.
You're probably right, Joy, but she certainly lived in Arkansas more than long enough to pick up a "natural" southern accent.
It's sort of silly - I know that when I'm on the phone with someone from the South, if we talk more than a couple of minutes I am drawling with the best of them. I've caught myself at that and tried to stop it because I don't want people to think I'm mimicking them, but it always happens.
Happens here too.. I grew up in the south for the majority of my life, Air Force brat as I have said before. I have lived in Ohio for over 20 years now.. I don't sound southern UNLESS I am around a sotherner.. When MIL lived in Tennessee I was right at home and all on the draw.. Takes a nothing to start up. However, it takes a while to drop the draw.. Go figure... Also, IF I get really mad I am all draw...
Love you, too, Bobbie! And, yes, Joy, she IS from Illinois. If you listen to her on the Senate floor (especially when she is trying to back pedal initially supporting the war), she has a VERY NORTHERN accent.
I don't think she knows what she is. She bought a home in NY so she could run as a Senator from NY, one of the most liberal states (after Massachusetts). (Shades of Bobby Kennedy).
Just like George Bush...he may have been raised in Texas, but he is a New England yankee, with patrician roots. His family is originally from Connecticut, and have a home in Maine. The Sr. Bushes only lived in Texas because they made their money in the oil business. If you listen to him, with the twang and the folksy expressions, that is no New England accent!! (I ought to know. I live here). His siblings don't talk like that. Maybe it's because he married a Texan, but I think some of it is put on, as well.
Very even-handed, Hol. Yeah, I find Bush's "aw shucks" mode annoying. And I do wish that he (and several million other people) would learn how to pronounce "nuclear" correctly.
Ditto that Ginny! It peaves me to no end!!!!
Ditto again, Ginny!! It makes me cringe.
I hate to say it, but I despair for this country (and the free world). There isn't ONE of the candidates from either party that really inspire me at this point. Is that the best that the "baby-boomers" (of which I am one) can do?? Not since World War II has it become more crucial to have a strong leader. Pretty soon it will be the U.S. vs everybody else!
I hate to say it, but I despair for this country (and the free world). There isn't ONE of the candidates from either party that really inspire me at this point. Is that the best that the "baby-boomers" (of which I am one) can do??
I agree with you 100%. Everything I have seen so far from pretty much everyone is pretty pathetic. I so wish there was a law or something that you can't speak negative about anyone during a campaign. You can ONLY talk about what you will do. Not what the other has done wrong in the past, but how YOU will change things and what YOU will do in the future. Trust me, I won't vote for someone who can only complain. If ANYONE stands up with a clear plan of action for what they believe and what they will do, they will have my attention. So far, it has been mostly bashing and I just won't give it my time.
Vicki, you are SO RIGHT. It has become so dirty. And the American voter is not that smart, as a whole, because it has become a popularity contest, likened to "American Idol". I have heard comments like, "So and so is very HANDSOME", etc.. Well, our enemies don't care if our leader is good looking. We need someone strong with a viable plan for peace.
Another thing that gets me is when an incumbent is running, be it governor, senator, even President. They will tell you what they are going to do to fix all the ills of society. Well, they have just had two/four years to do it, and they didn't.
"I so wish there was a law or something that you can't speak negative about anyone during a campaign. " Amen!!! I so dread the commercials that will impact ever second of television in a couple of months. I remember back to a day where it was against the law to do such things.. Like commercials had to refer to brand X instead of the name of a product.. Now any thing is free game...
I don't think any one can accomplish anything at a 100% level in 4 years. I think they need to have a solid plan to get the ball rolling. Something that can be built upon and run with by the next president. But every president comes in focusing on fixing the errors of the president before him. I am so much better than so and so pick me.. It is like picking teams in elementary school.... The new person will have to fix Bush's mistakes, as he sees them and all his promises for change will go out the door...
Our Government needs an overhaul.. It was set up in a nation where the majority were illiterate and mostly honestly probably didn't keep up with or care what the government was doing. They trusted people in power to do what was right by them and we as a society know better of this today... America is not the same place that the constitution was written for and the men of our country have read into as they wished for centuries to make it suit their will. We (America) are transitioning out of the "good ole boys" club that the system was set up to protect. Our women, different races of people and the people that have been told that the rules don't apply to them are stepping up and into the light demanding the things we were promised centuries ago that we are being told don't apply to "US". And Ginny, I know this has been going on forever.. Bra burning, equal rights rallies, protest.. But with the media the way it is today, I think more people are apt. to jump on the band wagons and as time passes more people are stepping up for others than ever before.
I think it is all "American Idol" and I pray that we don't end up with someone that we really shouldn't. I can see people being asked why they voted for Hillary only to say "well she is a woman and it is about time". Her being a woman isn't a solid reason for her to get your vote. Will I vote for her, I am not sure yet but if I do it will be because I think she sill do the right things.. Not because she looks cute in a suit... Like it was said no other country cares whether we have a supper model or a leather face for president. They want to deal with someone that knows their business.. Not some want to be southern fool...
One thing you/I can do is to refuse to repeat the really scurrilous comments made about candidates. I don't agree that candidates should not campaign, at least partly, on what the opponent did wrong. But I think there is a big difference between saying, for example, that Obama doesn't have much government experience, and running ads that focus on his middle name (Hussein). If Bush were a candidate, I think it would be fair to run an ad with the "Good job, Brownie" remark, but totally unfair to comment on his daughters' behavior or, most of the time, his problems with pronunciation. If Kerry were a candidate, imo it would be fair to run ads about his activities against the Viet Nam war, but unfair to denigrate his (documented) service in Viet Nam or imply that his medals were not properly awarded. And I think any ad that tries to link any candidate with Bin Laden, Al Queda, or supporting terrorists because they question the purpose or conduct of this war is totally out of line.
I think it is appropriate to publicize and comment on the varieties of financial deals and associations various past, present (and, sadly, future) candidates and members of Congress and most state legislatures have made - but if a candidate does that, s/he had better be able to demonstrate clean hands. And when looking at what a candidate says s/he will do, it is a good idea to look at what that candidate has done.
But when an ad says so-and-so voted against - whatever - check to see if that was one vote because one bill had a lot of bad things attached to it, but the candidate voted for the same thing multiple other times. (Like the constant charges in the last campaign that various candidates voted against funds to "support our troops" on the basis of one vote on one bill, totally ignoring multiple votes on other bills.) I tend to go to FactCheck a lot during campaigns, to check out the truthfulness of political ads. FactCheck. Factcheck seems to be pretty even-handed in its analysis and criticism of various political ads.
A poll reported in the NYTimes today said that the average voter cares more about a candidate's character than the candidate's positions or proposals. To some extent, I also care about a candidate's character - like Guliani letting his 2nd wife know he was going to get a divorce by announcing it in a press conference, or Gingrich starting proceedings to divorce his wife while she was in the hospital being treated for breast cancer - because that kind of behavior is just cruel and does, imo, say something about a person. Gary Hart's challenge to the media when they questioned his alleged womanizing (and the media caught him) was stupid, and stupidity matters to me. I also think Bill Clinton's inability to keep his zipper up, and then lying about it, was incredibly stupid, and I still get furious every time I think about it. But let's face it - we snicker over something a candidate has done (or is alleged to have done) and call it a failure of character *and* a reason to vote against the person, when we tolerate the same kinds of behavior in family members, friends, and neighbors - and sometimes in ourselves. In 1992, Charles Krauthammer wrote a column in TIME, In Praise of Mass Hypocrisy, which resonates today. The link no longer works, but if you type Krauthammer +Mass +Hypocrisy in Google it should be one of the first items on the first page.
By the way, Bobbie, according to Urban Legends, BraBurning - no bras were burned. But yes, negative campaigning has been going on forever (which does not justify it, just puts it in historical perspective). Here's a link to a page of Reason Magazine (not a publication I usually read), listing what they consider the 10 dirtiest political campaigns, starting in 1800: Campaigns I don't agree entirely with their list, but it does hit some of the worst. Another really bad one was Nixon's campaign against Helen Gahagan Douglas in California in 1950, with false charges that she was a communist.
Ginny, I totally agree with what you are saying about a candidate's positions and proposals, but I do believe that character and integrity are important, as well. (I couldn't care less about looks). Though Hollywood would have us believe otherwise, morality is still important to most Americans, and though it might be unfair, we hold our elected officials to a higher standard, maybe even more so than to ourselves. Their decisions can literally mean the difference between life and death for us (as in world annhilation), or at the very least, the quality of our life (as in living in a free society).
I'm afraid that there are some very well qualified, morally decent people that are very capable of being the leader of the free world, but they lack: financial backing, influential friends, or the desire to be a "player" among the dirty dealers. They also don't want to subject themselves or their family to scrutiny of every detail of their lives, or the constant threat of assasination.
Bobbie, I do believe that the concept of a United States of America, and a government of, by and for the people was Divinely ordained. It had never been done before. Roger Williams called it "a lively experiment". Liberty is basic in the human soul, and the idea of equality for all had also never been a reality. As a Christian, I believe that the Constituiton was written on Christian principles, since those are also tenets of the Christian faith.
Did it work all of the time? Sadly, no. The treatment of Native Americans, African-Americans, and women proved that. The horror and travesty of Manifest Destiny is a huge blot on our history; the idea that we could just push indigenous people out of the way by any means, to further our agenda is abominable. The idea that we could buy, sell and trade human beings to further our financial gain is also unforgivable. And even when African-Americans were "freed", they couldn't go to school or eat in the same restaurants or sleep in the same hotels as the general population. Even Jews were treated the same way, as far as accomodations. I remember that in my lifetime. Women couldn't own property in their own name, and had no protection in divorce. Heck, we couldn't even vote.
However, the core idea of liberty was a good one. It just took the oppressed people to make it work for them, too, by radical means, if neccesary.
Agreed.. I feel the same way about the original intent.. I think that the words have been twisted and used to the advantage of the people that have power in our society to use against the people that don't.
Ginny, I knew there were no Bras, it was just an example of the people standing up for themselves, our rights that we by law deserve..
I have a cousin in Canada who is a brilliant woman..she holds a PhD and is a college professor. She has also been a feminist since the inception of the movement in the early '70's. We only get to see each other at weddings and funerals, etc. I remember once, in the late 70's at her parents' fortieth anniversary party, having a discussion about feminism. At that time, I was a very traditional woman and was turned off by the Gloria Steinems of the world. My cousin said "How can you, as a woman, be against the movement?" I said "Because I find them so radical. They all act like they hate men, like men are the enemy, and they are so unfeminine". She said, "Yes Holly, but all through history, at the forefront of every revolution is radicalism. It HAS to be that way in order to be heard". I have always remembered that. She was so right. Look at anytime we have had a change in thinking. It came about through over-the-top revolutionaries. The Black Panthers, the anti-war movement during the VietNam war, even animal rights. It took radical people breaking into laboratories and freeing laboratory animals to make us aware of their plight. It made us (humans) realize that they are senscient beings with feelings and emotions, too, and not to be used and abused for our purposes.
The United States, with all of its flaws is still the greatest place on Earth to live (I include you Canadian Moms in that, too). We have the ability to travel from place to place without check points, papers, etc.. However, the very thing that makes living here so wonderful can be our undoing, as in terrorists moving among us.
We are SO in need of strong and moral leadership. I pray that someone will come to the forefront to run for President that we can have confidence in.
Your cousin is so right, Hol. I've made no secret of my very liberal very lefty political position, and I have participated in many demonstrations and marches over the years. And I have been upset and sometimes appalled at the just plain rudeness and stridency of some of the radical groups - but have come to realize that if change is going to come, most of the time it takes radicals - even when my middle-class, middle America, middle-age (or older) sensibilities are affronted - to made public the need for change. As long as the radicals are not violent - that I could never find acceptable.
We need not only strong leadership and moral leadership, but also wise leadership. I only hope it turns out that way in 2008.
Agreed.... many hopes for 2008, from me too..
Ditto, Ginny and Bobbie. We definitely need wisdom, too.
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