Do playdates and cocktails mix?
Moms View Message Board: The Kitchen Table (Debating Board): Do playdates and cocktails mix?
This has been debated among some of the bloggers I read and recently one of them was featured on the Today Show. The link to the story is here. Please also click to watch the video.
So, would you drink a glass of wine or have a cocktail while getting together with friends and their children or do you think it's irresponsible? A group of my friends gets together infrequently (once a month or so) with our kids on Friday nights and we do have a couple of drinks over 4-6 hours with dinner and snacks. I've never thought too much of it. Usually there are a few of us that don't drink at all (due to abstinence, pregnancy, etc.) so someone is available to drive if there were an emergency. The real sticking point for me, though, is the idea that men sit around watching football games or talk around the grill, drinking beers with the kids running around, and it doesn't create any type of controversy like this and no one thinks it's wrong if a mother and father have a glass of wine with dinner in front of their toddlers. I'd prefer to teach my children that alcohol is not bad, an excess of it is, just as an excess of anything can be wrong.
So what do you think???
I saw that story and I don't have a problem with it. Course, it reminded me of the birthday party thread we had on here recently where I mentioned the best parties I went to had alcohol available to parents and others posted they would walk out of a birthday party that had alcohol available.
The other night we were at a popular mexican food restaurant and there were many many big party tables of families with young children (like 3 couples and all their kids on the same table or extended family tables of 15 or whatever) and they were all having margaritas and beer. It just seemed normal to me.
I'm not a huge drinker now having been drunk my entire high school and college days, but I don't see the big deal. It might help the stress level of parenting. Maybe integrating alcohol into normal life will take the fascination away from it? I don't know. Isn't that what the Italians do?
Dh and I are not big drinkers. We have a drink occasionally, usually a glass of wine. We tend to drink more during the holidays, or when we are entertaining. We don't get drunk. In fact, when my dks are around, or I am driving, my limit is 2 drinks. I see nothing wrong with drinking around your children. I don't want alcohol to be some big taboo thing. I think it is fine in moderation.
One of our neighbors seems to have some type of get together monthly. We are all there with our children. We have food and alcohol, and I see nothing wrong with it. No one gets really drunk, or out of hand. We all walk since we live on the same block, so driving isn't an issue.
So, would I go to a play date in the middle of the afternoon, and drink. Maybe not, I don't like to drink during the day, it makes me tired. Do I see anything wrong with it. No, especially if it is just a glass of wine. Now, if it were more, then you would have to consider whether they are driving intoxicated with their dks in the car, and how are they taking care of them. But, having one glass of wine, with friends, is no big deal to me, children or no children.
I'm not much of a drinker anyway. I would probably have one drink and then go to soda. If other people want to drink, that's fine. I just wouldn't have very much.
At Christmas, I had one drink, right when I got there, and then soda the rest of the night, since I was the designated driver. We got there around 4 and didn't leave until 10-10:30, so that drink had plenty of time to metabolize, before I had to drive home.
My initial gut reaction was this is not a good thing. However, DH and I both drink occasionally in the evenings, a couple glasses of wine so I guess there really isn't much difference.
Something about a bunch of moms sitting together in the afternoon drinking bothers me though, I'm not sure why that is. It seems a bit co-dependant and I wonder why they are getting together. Is it an opportunity to get together so they can drink? Do they ever get together and not drink? How often are they doing this? Does it ever get out of hand? I wish the journalist would have asked a few more pointed questions.
As a news piece it was disappointing, the expert really didn't have a lot to add, the journalist appeared to be a bit judgmental and the women who owns the blog came across as flippant and her attitude seemed to be well if you don't want to come in drink with us in the afternoon then you aren't cool anyway so we don't want you in our group. From reading her blog it appears that she is a bit resentful about being a SAHM, so I wonder why she is. We all have our moments but being resentful will certainly shine through to her kids, I wonder if maybe that's why they feel the need to drink? Perhaps it's a coping mechanism to help them deal with their lot in life; maybe they would rather being doing something else?
I totally get the double standard you are talking about, but honestly if my DH were at home with the kids and I thought that he was sitting around in the afternoon having a couple of beers with the boys a few times a week I would be concerned. I would be concerned about things like how well are they watching the kids? How much are they really drinking? What if something happened? My sister babysat Matthew one time and she had a beer, I didn’t say anything but it bugged me. I thought “Why did she feel the need to have a beer? Couldn’t she have waited until she got home?” It just did not sit right with me.
Sorry if none of this makes much sense, it’s just thoughts rumbling around in my head.
I think we really have a problem in this country about the "morality" of alcohol. In Europe, this woud be a non starter. No big deal to sit and have a glass of wine with friends as your kids play. Alcohol here in the states has such a negative connotation and stigma that it seems "bad" to do this.
I'm guilty of it myself. I take my children out once a week to a local restaurant for lunch. The food is great, the service is great. Several times, I have wanted to order a glass of wine or a beer with my lunch. I have not because I wonder what people with *think* of a mom out alone with her kids having a drink - not even considering that there is a meal infront of me and that a glass of wine might just taste really good with it  .
So, I have no problem with it, maybe it's just cultural for me, but I know others do have a problem with it, so I end up curbing my lifestyle for what is "acceptable" social behavior.
There are moms that I have over for lunch and I know who I can offer a glass of wine to and who I can't.
Ame
I would love to sit with my friends and have a yummy cocktail, however, whether at a home or resturant, I will not drink if there is going to be a child in my car. I won't even part of drink. Just goes against my personal feelings.
Actually, since having children, I don't even drink when we go out alone. I guess I only drink now if we are at home. And I think it has been three years since I last drank.
This is kind of a wishy washy debate. Not sure whether to sit on the fence or which way to hop off. I have and do have an occasional drink with the kids around like at dinner or if we are playing board or card games with friends. Or maybe a glass of wine at night. It's not often. We haven't even had a drink since maybe October if even then. But the thread started out about playdates and drinking. I might could see getting together on a Saturday afternoon, having a drink, and watching the kids play, have a late lunch and later go home. But I couldn't see doing that during the week while dh was at work. There is just something strange to me about that.
Honestly as long as you are falling down drunk, it doesn't matter to me. We are not big drinkers, we have alcohol on rare occasions. But mostly because of time. I like to drink, I enjoy wine, but for me it is a relaxing thing, well if I had 10 things on my to do list, it is not really wise to have a glass of wine and then go to bed!
We will have a superbowl party, there will be kids and families here, there will also be drinks. If we had an emergency and everyone was drinking (and I have no idea if they will be) I'll call 911, no big deal. We won't be all drunk, but I also wouldn't drive if I have had a drink.
So what do I think I teach my kids about drinking? That I follow the rules, it doesn't run my life, it isn't a big deal.
I even buy wine with my kids in the store with me. With my almost 13 year old we talk about the different types of wines. I don't think she has ever even tasted my wine (i know she hasn't other drinks), I don't think I would mind if she took a taste of a red wine, because let's face it, she won't like it..LOL. I know she has smelled it.
I think as parents we are always trying to do the right thing, and we try to validate ourselves by seeing what other people do. Often this means we judge and condemn each other. The reality is, what is right for one family (or one child) isn't right for everyone. Different doesn't mean wrong, it just means different.
>>"I might could see getting together on a Saturday afternoon, having a drink, and watching the kids play, have a late lunch and later go home. But I couldn't see doing that during the week while dh was at work. There is just something strange to me about that."<<
I agree. Not sure why, and it may be a double standard as far as men go and drinking during football, cookouts, etc., but I still feel that way. It's just weird. That's also coming from someone who does not drink since having a child (just because I don't see a purpose anymore) and who RARELY drank before children. My DH is completely alcohol-free - doesn't even drink socially or on occasion. I've never seen him with a drink and we've been together almost 15 years. The few occasions he's been to bars with friends, he always the nerdy one with a soda. We both just grew up with alcoholism in the family and so we have a bad feeling about it.
Teaching kids about alcohol - definitely a problem in this country. It's so taboo it's ridiculous. My parents would occasionally have a beer around the house and let us taste it. No big deal. I won't mind buying alcohol (which is always in the house for in-laws) in front of Natalie, and I won't mind someone having a few drinks around her. It's for grown-ups, just like lots of things are. The problem is that she won't see it very often because we don't drink. We talked about this just a few weeks ago, how there was always alcohol and someone drinking in our homes growing up, where Natalie will rarely if ever see it in the house let alone us drinking it because we don't drink. She's never seen a cigarette either, which is also weird since both of our parents chain-smoked like crazy. We don't allow smoking in our home, so they either go outside to smoke or don't smoke at all when they're here.
Kaye- I think your last statements are right on point.
As far as people being even a little buzzed around my child, I'm very sensitive to that just because of my experiences growing up. Absolutely not going to happen. If we're at the in-laws and it's obvious someone is getting a LITTLE tipsy, we will be heading for the door. I'm just not going to expose her to people she loves that are not acting themselves because they chose to drink one too many. Around a child I feel it's totally irresponsible. Again, that may be my experiences.
When I think about having a glass of wine at a playdate, I think WEIRD! Our playdates are pretty busy, so "relaxing" with a glass of wine just doesn't fit that picture for me. I imagine my friends and I sitting around the table sipping wine while our 2's and 3's tear the house apart, LOL!
I spent some more time thinking about this last night here are a few points:
1. I am first generation Canadian my mother is Yugoslavian (social drinking an accepted norm)there was always alcohol around when I was growing up and my mother would have been considered a social drinker. By today's standards she is now an alcoholic.
2. I lived in Quebec for 10 years (predominately French culture where social drinking again is an accepted norm). A group of us were sitting around the back yard one Saturday afternoon and everyone was drinking alcohol expect me. A small child under the age of 2 jumped into the swimming pool after a ball, her mother was standing right beside her (she had been drinking) she did not even notice her child was in the pool or the fact that I was screaming for someone to help. I was the only sober person in the group and the only person who could not swim. I jumped into the pool as I could not raise a response from anyone and pulled the child out. Thank goodness the water was not over my head or we would have both drowned. No one even noticed us until they saw me standing on the deck fully clothed and soaking wet with a crying child in my arms. How very sad for that child. This is a clear case where booze and kids don't mix.
So, social drinking means different things to different people. There is a line and a boundary, but how do we define it? Is it one glass of wine? Or 2 drinks? 1/2 a bottle of wine? A few drinks means different things to different people.
Ame, I think when you say Europe you mean Italy and France is that correct? I don't think that people in Ireland/Scotland would be so open to social drinking. Perhaps you are right about our culture having a problem about this issue, but it is the culture we live in and our attitudes towards drinking are unlikely to change.
Anyway I found an interesting article on Social Drinking within different cultures.
Social & Cultural Aspects of Drinking
Yes, Heaven, I was referring to Italy, France, Spain, Greece etc. but If I am not mistaken, drinking, especially beer in a pub is very acceptable around children in Ireland, Scotland, etc? I could be wrong, not having experience in those cultural surroundings.
I think it comes down to this: what is your purpose for drinking (as Deanna alluded to)? Is it a nice beverage that you enjoy for the taste? Or to bring out the flavor of what you are eating? Is it a nice "adult" thing to do when you have few reminders that as an at home mom you really are an adult woman and can legally and responsibly enjoy an afternoon coctail or glass of wine? Or is it something else. As a young single did you drink to get drunk and now do you see all alcohol as a means to oblivion so you think it's wrong to have around children? Are you the child of an alcoholic and you know what abuse of it can do to a family? There are so many different circumstances that I don't think one answer fits everyone. (I am not referring to anyone specific with the use of the word "you" )
I grew up in a household where wine was drunk with out meals. I had soda with a small amount of wine in it as a young child. It was never a big deal. Coctails were occasionally served before dinner. I was allowed to dip my finger in my father's and have a "taste". By example, I was taught responsible drinking. My friends would go out to get drunk. It was rebellious. It was mystical. To me, it was just a drink, like any other drink. It held no mystery or power for me.
It still holds no mystery or power. I would like to be able to have a glass of wine with a delightful lunch and not feel like a "wanton" woman.
You are right, though, Heaven. Attutudes are not likely to change.
Ame
Heaventree, my brother worked in Scotland for close to a year. On their lunch break, everyone went to the local pub and had beer with their lunch. And, sometimes it was more then just one. My brother never could get used to it. So, I am not sure how they would feel about it. They definitely see nothing wrong with drinking while they are working.
I thought about this more last night too. I think the ages of your children would be a big factor. I don't see how I could have sat and had a glass of wine when my dks were 2-4 years old, and at playgroup. At this age, they need a lot of supervision. But, now that my dks are 6 and 8, if I get together with a friend while our kids play, it would be easy to have a glass of wine. I still don't think I would do it. But, I have no problem with those that do.
And, I guess for some reason it does feel pretty weird, to me, to drink in the middle of the day. A few years ago, my neighbor and I had a glass of wine when her divorce was final. LOL. It was around 3pm, we sat on my back porch, and our dks were playing outside. I felt weird when dh came home and asked me what we did that afternoon. I wasn't drunk, or even buzzed, it was just 1 glass, but I still felt weird.
I'm guessing the moms in the playgroups are drinking wine because they are bored.
Why do you have to have any other "reason" to drink wine, other than you are thirsty? This is what I don't understand ... Do we drink a Coke because we *need* the caffine and sugar, or do we have one because we're thirsty and it tastes good? Do I have a glass of water because I can't think of anything else to do? No.
However, it is interesting to see how people percieve something as basic as a glass of wine.
Ame
Stephanie Wilder-Taylor seems to me to be saying that you can't be a good mom unless you're lit up. "Be sober 15, 16, 17 hours a day with your kids and watch them, and I would love to see, like, if they're a great mom."
Another thing I noticed is that, when Merideth asked Melissa Summers (Suburban Bliss) in the interview what she would think if it were the babysitter tossing down wine with other babysitters, she replied that it wouldn't be okay because she is paying the babysitter to do a job. What difference does it make whether or not the caretaker is getting paid? Being a mother is a "job" as well, isn't it? It is a job, and it deserves to be done to the best of her ability for the sake of her children. While she is on the job, she should remain sober. Just as her husband wouldn't drink until he got home from the office, she shouldn't drink until the kids are in bed or away at grandma's or wherever. She said that there are other ways that she relaxes, such as yoga, so I would double up on the yoga before I would get lit.
Dr. Janet Taylor, the clinical instructor of psychiatry at Columbia University's Harlem Hospital, made a good point also that we need to model for our children, and having wine bottles sitting around tells the kids that alcohol is the way to have fun when you are a grown-up. They showed one of the moms in the backyard talking to her dd, and the mom said, "Oh, you want yours?" the dd says, "Yes!" and the mom says, "Yours comes in a box." So, the kids are already curious about what mom is drinking that she likes so much and makes her feel good."
And how many times have we heard stories about the kid who drowned in the backyard pool at the BBQ party because no one was paying attention? As Dr. Taylor said, even one drink can narrow your focus and cognitive ability, making it more difficult to actually pay attention.
If it is that important for these women to get together and drink, they can do it when they are away from their kids, or they can designate a mom to remain sober while the others get toasted.
Lisa, I don't think any of the moms that don't have a problem with this are getting "lit" in front of their children. If you think having a glass of wine in front of your child is setting a bad example, why is it ok to drink a soda or eat junk food or spend hours on the computer instead of using that time productively? I'm not saying you do any of these things, but I don't feel that it's any worse to show my child that I can enjoy a cocktail with friends in a responsible manner than it is to show them that we can have dessert in moderation. If I sit around eating chocolate cake with my friends several times a week, I'm going to end up too fat to take care of my child responsibly too.
My kids see me sitting with my friends knitting, talking about the books we've read, teaching each other how to embroider. Unless a big deal is made by someone else, the glass of wine has as little impact on our fun and my child's impression of our get together as a can of Coke or a glass of juice. If someone knows that a single glass of wine over a two or three hour playdate is going to impair their ability to care for their child, they shouldn't drink. I know that a nice glass of wine is going to make our appetizers taste a little better and that it won't affect how I take care of my kids.
I guess that news piece was biased and since reading a bit more about it (the blog world is a buzz with this topic and the Blogging Mommas are not happy) I get what you are saying.
The news piece left me feeling that these moms got together for playdates so that they could drink. It left me with the impression that these were a bunch of moms that were stressed out and couldn't cope with staying at home and raising their children (I guess that's why everyone is so upset) so they got together a couple times of week and got a little tipsy in the backyard and then had an WT* attitude about it.
I have no problem with responsible drinking in front of your children, it's too bad they didn't do a bit more of a balanced news piece.
Tink, you said exactly what I think! There is a difference between getting "lit" several times a week in front of your children, and enjoying a glass of wine with friends in front of your children. All in moderation! And, I drink, not because I am bored, but because I enjoy an good glass of wine every once in awhile. And, I see nothing wrong with having a drink in front of my children. Why should I wait until they are in bed, why hide it? Now, I would never get drunk in front of my children. But, 1 or 2 drinks does not get me drunk.
Kaye, I totally agree with this statement..
"I think as parents we are always trying to do the right thing, and we try to validate ourselves by seeing what other people do. Often this means we judge and condemn each other. The reality is, what is right for one family (or one child) isn't right for everyone. Different doesn't mean wrong, it just means different."
"so they got together a couple times of week and got a little tipsy in the backyard and then had an WT* attitude about it."
Personally, I couldn't justify getting together a couple times a week and drinking alcohol on playdates.I think on playdates it's more for the kids and the adults should be drinking more on the adult time.My Dh and I are not big drinkers at all.I guess each to there own.It doesn't take much for me to get tipsy so I know drinking on a playdate is a big NO for me.I'd also feel like I couldn't depend on letting my children be at their house without me anytime knowing they can freely drink alcohol a few afternoons a week.Thats ALOT to me.
Ditto, Triplemom. I agree with you. Playdates to me are for the kids. The way I see it, there is a time and place for everything.
I would never think to leave my dd at a preschool where the teachers sit down for lunch and drink alcoholic beverages. I want to feel my best when I am responsible for my child's welfare. And I can't imagine driving home after such a get together with Lara in the car. Even one drink would have an effect on my reaction time. Not to mention how crabby I get once the effects wear off. No, I'll take tea or coffee, thanks.:-)
I agree that drinking responsibly in front of children should not be a problem. Drinking wine with dinner isn't the same, because eating a meal means that the alcohol is not metabolized as quickly, so the effect is more likely to be diluted. Besides, the main reason that people drink wine with dinner is to enhance the taste of the food.
However, as Heaven said, the moms in the backyard sounded like lushes. I quote again from Stephanie, "Be sober 15, 16, 17 hours a day with your kids and watch them, and I would love to see, like, if they're a great mom." The opposite of sober is under the influence, so she is saying that the way these moms deal with the stress of motherhood is to get together and throw down some wine and relax, and then they feel like better moms.
I do not think that having a few glasses of wine makes it impossible to change a diaper. However, it cuts down on one's ability to be congnitively aware of everything going on around the playground, and god forbid one of the little ones gets hurt because one of the moms didn't have the ability to see a danger and react to avoid a tragedy.
Hubby and I talked about this a little, too. I showed him the video. He is a little more open minded about things than I am (maybe to keep me from going over the edge ) and did agree that in moderation is best. Know your limits, know how much alcohol is too much for your body and your mind.
But the word that comes to my mind is 'gateway' where one drink may lead to 2, and then to too many.
In addition, I do not understand why these women NEED to do this. Like, why does my hubby NEED to have a wad of tobacco (he chews)? Once the susbtance becomes something you think you NEED, that you can't go without or you will go nuts, then it becomes an addiction.
With respect to the judgement aspect of this, that could be a whole nother thread in itself. I don't go for this "You can't judge me" line. The operable word here is "tolerance." I realize that everyone has rights, and I have to be "tolerant" of the choices that others make. But that does not mean that I have to accept their choices. I also have rights, and one of those rights is also to judge what behaviors I see as right or wrong.
What this all boils down to is that right and wrong have become relative to each individual person. Chaos will run amok when we have everyone in the world deciding right or wrong for themselves without any value system to guide them, only the value system that they create for themselves.
We have a pool in our backyard. And if there are kids in my pool, """I""" will NOT be drinking. I don't care if everybody else is drinking a beer or glass of wine. But it won't be me with kids in my pool. We don't ever have enough alcohol around here for anybody to get lit anyway. And I wouldn't allow anyone to get lit around kids anyway. I do draw the line there. One or two is about what I would offer to anybody at my house, if that.
Ditto Tink. Drinking responsibly in front of children is fine, but I think even that would be a different line for everyone. Drinking responsibly may mean to one person 'dad gets drunk, mom stays sober'. That's not responsible to ME because I don't think children should see their parents drunk. Why? Because I have firsthand experience and it's not fun.
I just don't see a need for women to get together and have any alcoholic beverages on a playdate. If they are getting together without children on a Sat. afternoon, fine. Playdates are for kids, no?
Ame - I think you're exactly right but changing that attitude is nearly impossible. It's hard for me, but I understand it.
In all reality, my most fun afternoons, were when kids had off from school and we went to my girlfriend's house and adults drank tea, while kids played.
To this day, with kids who are 17, 15, and 14, we drink sparkling juice drinks, on New Year's Eve. I have never had alcohol at their house.
"What difference does it make whether or not the caretaker is getting paid? Being a mother is a "job" as well, isn't it? It is a job, and it deserves to be done to the best of her ability for the sake of her children."
I am sorry I don't buy this line of thinking. I have sex in my house, when my children are home, i would fire a babysitter if she did the same thing. Even if it was a friend and her husband, the rules are just different.
Also the whole playdate thing, I think play dates are multi purpose, I think they are as much for the moms as they are the kids. If that wasn't true, then wouldn't we just drop them off at each other's houses and switch weeks, and not all meet together?
I am not a big drinker, as I have said before. But drinking isn't really taboo in my house. At our superbowl party we will be drinking, we have invited a few people over (not sure if they are coming though), but we will drink whether they are here or not. To my hubby nothing taste better with chips and queso than a beer. I amy or may not have wine, I will have some available, but depends on what I am in the mood for. I will also have sodas available.
I think there are people who get carried away, but I think there are more people who have a drink on a friday afternoon with their kids who don't stress me. I have lived in 6 locations and I have to say that I haven't ever met the ladies who get drunk at play group, okay well I haven't actually seen any drinking at a daytime playgroup. I did have a friend who went to her friends to have a beer every friday, 1 hour before the kids came home from school. We laughed about it, being odd, but I never thought, how dare her.
I agree with your post right above this 100% Kaye. There is a HUGE difference in what I think a babysitter can/should do as opposed to what I do in my home. I also though playdates were just as much for me as they were for my dd. I likely looked more forward to the adult interaction and getting out of the house more than she ever did!!
Anyway...ditto to your post!!
Okay, so I understand that there are different rules.
I just don't understand why we hold babysitters to a higher standard of responsibility than we do ourselves as parents.
That is why I referred to the task of caregiving as a job, regardless of whether or not the caregiver is the parent. Perhaps more parents would take their responsibility more seriously if they elevated the importance of that responsibility to that of an actual job where one is held accountable for one's actions.
I don't see why i couldn't have a glass of wine or a Mike's hard lemonade while hanging out at a friend's house watching the kids play. Actually, i think i have done just that once or twice. It's not like we are sitting around planning on getting drunk, or doing bongs or anything. It's a glass of wine. big deal.
Would i have a beer or two right now, at 3:30 on a tuesday? No. I don't really want one.
But, while i am making dinner, and my dd is doing her homework and it's been a bit of a stressful day if I want a glass of wine then heck yeah, i'm going to have a glass of wine just to calm my nerves.
My dh and I rarely get drunk, in fact i don't remember the last time we were drunk. We had drinks on New Year's Eve, but we didn't get drunk and would definitely not get drunk in front of our kids or anyone elses kids. IT's just not right, IMO.
Debbie, i completely agree with your statement.
I didn't click on the link but there was something on TV about it the other day.
I think, on some level, it's just another way to remind us that we're adults. Moms have a need to feel "adult" in our new roles as caretakers. I don't mind playing with choo choo trains all day but it would be nice to hold a glass of wine, have an adult conversation, and let the kids learn from each other and interact and simply...have fun. It's just a way to set ourselves apart from our little buddies that we've been with all day.
I totally get that we all need adult conversation and that talking to other adults while holding and drinking an adult beverage makes one feel more like an adult. Especially after hanging out with kids all day. But, if we really need that adult socialization, I think it would be more appropriate to have it without any kids around, such as an evening out every week or so while the kids are with a sitter and the hubbies could be included, too, if the women wish. That way, the safety of the children is assured while the adults can let their guards down and have adult conversation and drink adult beverages and have adult time.
I consider "playdates" as daytime fun with other kids from the neighbourhood or kids from school.Sometimes the playdate involves a parent and sometimes it doesn't.I would NEVER consider drinking alcohol then.A Friday night with friends and their kids over for dinner and having a drink,I see no problems,I don't consider those nights "playdates".
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