Spanking Bill
Moms View Message Board: The Kitchen Table (Debating Board): Spanking Bill
I'm not a spanker, but I think this is going too far.
http://fox40.trb.com/news/ktxl-011907spank,0,2378348.story?coll=ktxl-news-1
Spanking Bill Introduced Next Week
The Associated Press
January 19, 2007
SACRAMENTO — California parents would face jail and a fine for spanking their young children under legislation a San Francisco Bay area lawmaker has promised to introduce next week.
Assemblywoman Sally Lieber, a Mountain View democrat, says the law is needed because spanking victimizes helpless children and breeds violence in society.
Lieber said her proposal would make spanking, hitting and slapping a child under four years old a misdemeanor.
Adults could face up to a year in jail and a thousand-dollar fine.
Aides to the assemblywoman said they are still working on a definition for spanking.
I feel adults should be held accountable for forms of child abuse. I view spanking, hitting and slapping as abuse. I am much in favor of this proposal. I only wish there was not the cut off at four years of age.
Here we go with another senseless Zero Tolerance bit that throws common sense out the window in favor of the politically correct.
Unfortunately some kids need a good swat on the tusch. That might explain why there is so much disrespect among kids.
Here we go on that slippery slope. Next they will make a law that requires parents to read to their kids for 15 minutes every day.
I 100% agree with Lisa.
You can't even discipline your kids anymore and this is why there are so many rude, disrespectful kids nowadays. I"m not saying you should whale on the kid and cause bruises or anything, but like Lisa said, some kids do need a quick swat on the bottom to let them know you mean business.
I think this is going too far too. Giving a child a little swat on the bottom is not abuse. Why don't they worry about the kids that are really at risk and getting beat and neglected and leave the swatters alone!!
Again, government going too far to legislate what people can and can't do.
"... they are still working on a definition for spanking" And, therein lies the issue. If they have not yet even defined it, how can they propose to legislate it?
Spanking comes down to parenting philosophy. How can you charge a parent with a crime for his or her parenting philosophy?
Gotta' love intrusive government. What's next? Charging parents with a misdemeanor if they take their kids to McDonalds? That's also a parenting choice that horrifies some and which those same people would consider dangerous and abusive.
Ame
BTW, I first read it as Spaking Bill (as in a name) lol. Thought it had somethinn to do with the other thread.
Ame
With all the zealots out there, what's to keep someone from calling the police on a mom who playfully swats her child on the rear while playing?
I'm sorry, but this is the most ridiculous abuse of power that affects the family that I've ever seen. Although I agree that abuse should be stopped, we're literally throwing the baby out with the bath water on this one.
Going way too far. I certainly don't accept abuse as a choice, but this bill is unreal.
Absolutely outrageous bill. Ditto Lisa and others. I'm not a huge fan of spanking although it CAN have its place, but abuse is so far beyond spanking it's unreal. How many times have I tried to get a kid pulled from the home for REAL abuse to no avail?? Let me tell you I couldn't even count them, and this person is trying to get parents put in jail for swatting bottoms? I'm speechless.
Let me just be clear here...it says that too much spanking has led to violence in our children? Okay really our world was less violent I think, we certainly didn't have big school shootings, etc. But how many of us were spanked? I was probably abused I was spanked so much, but most people don't spank anymore. I don't see it as abuse, I don't spank my kids, I did when they were little swat their diaper bottoms on occasion. But it has been years, I certainly never thought of it as abuse. Anyway, this is just absurd and the whole line of thinking is just off!
I was spanked & I was not a violent child. I spank my children & they are not violent children, this is ridiculous. I think letting children get away with bad behavior is more abusive than giving them a swat on their bottoms.
I do realize that some parents go to far with punishment, but guess what with or without this legislation it will happen.
Ditto Kaye!! I was spanked so much as a child, LOL, because I was rotten and defiant  I'm not a violent person in the least. I would bet that the woman trying to get this bill passed was ALSO spanked as a child (just a sign of the times) and I'm betting that SHE isn't a violent person either.
These kids that are shooting, raping, and being terrible to each other have way more issues than getting a spanking. Children's behavior now compared to a mere 25yrs. ago when I was a child is so completely different that it's unreal. It's a result of sooooooo many things IMO, but ONE of them is tiptoeing around our children. Never a harsh tone, never a swat on the butt, and never a consistent consequence because we don't want to upset anyone AND it's too much work because parents are too busy with their own lives and getting ahead. Does this woman have any kids? I wonder.
Ditto Emily - even if this were passes it would NOT help the kids who are relaly being abused. Do you think that happens in the parking lot at the mall? Heck no. Those kids are abused behind closed doors and just come out the next day with the marks. It's pointless and just absurd.
"IMO, but ONE of them is tiptoeing around our children." That is IMO too.. Many kids these days are just plain out of control and their parents have no authority . If you do not respect the authority of your parents then you do not respect the authority of anyone else. I think as a child, a good does of fear is a good thing. Kids fear nothing these days. The girls are in 4th grade.. There is a boy that said the cops couldn't do anything to him because he was to young to go to the juvenile jail. He tells the teacher to go **** him self and has flipped his desk and hurt another child because he was mad. What kind of child will this be in 12th grade??
Spanking isn't the issue... Parents need to parent their children and the courts need to support parenting and stop trying to tell us how not to raise our children.
I agree this woman probably doesn't have children and I also agree she was probably spanked on the verge of abuse. As a spanked child I am not aggressive or damaged because of my spankings. I knew the rules and I broke them. Just like if I stole today I would go to jail. My kids are respectful and they know the rules, they break them and they will suffer the consequences... And the consequences are based on their age and what they require to get the fact that they broke the rules.... From apologizing , extra chores, groundings and a swat if the "offense" requires it. They haven't been spanked in years... But they know I will spank and what I would spank for. They also know that they had better show respect to their elders or I will be on them like there is no tomorrow. I love my children enough that I taught them to respect themselves and others. Many parents don't teach their child that important life lesson, they just don't have the time...
So if a parent chooses not to spank it's because they are too busy with their own interests and don't have time?
Highly debatable in itself, in my opinion. Corporal punishment is only one method of discipline.
I doubt this proposal will ever become a reality as there are far too many loopholes. Yet, the mere fact it has raised this issue is encouraging to me.
Nicki, there are parents that do not parent their children. It is apparent in the city school systems and the court systems. Corporal punishment is only one method of discipline and time outs do not work on all children.
Nicki, no I don't mean that at all! Spanking is a choice, like any other parental action. I just meant that IMO the behavior of children has "gone downhill" so-to-speak because of MANY things, one of which is inconsistent parenting and too much focus on themselves. It's not because they are spanked.
I'm sorry if that came out the wrong way. Spanking is a very infrequent action in our home as well, so I didn't mean that at all. I meant that this legislator's ideas are just so misguided.
Spanking is not abuse. It may not be the choice of some parents but it's not abuse IMO. "Abuse" comes in so many forms, and not always physically. So, according to this legislation, if I swat my 2 yr old's butt in the mall I'm going to jail for a year? WHAT??!! That's the most ludicrous thing I've ever heard.
In Michigan last October, a woman and her husband were convicted of murder (1st and 2nd respectively) after she killed their 7-year old adopted son with a hammer and her husband dumped his body in a trash bag in a swampy ditch. During the trial, numerous other gruesome and appalling stories came out about the abuse that the boy had suffered, which included tying him to his bedposts, duct taping his head to the fridge, and taking him to school on a dog leash. Even after school staff had asked the CPS to investigate at least twice, the boy was never removed. (Google "Ricky Holland")
And now some wench in California wants to put parents who give their child a swat on the tusch in jail for a year.
Let's face it. We're doomed.
Anyone with any experience knows that a 1-3 year old child doesn't understand enough of the English language to comprehend a lengthy explanation about why he can't play with the stove knobs. Limits, which are also set for his own safety, sometimes need a more meaningful and thus memorable connection, the kind of connection that swat on the tusch could provide.
So, it's not like we parents are in a power struggle with our toddlers, although that's sometimes what it turns out to be. We want our kids to not only respect us as authority figures, but we also want them to be able to understand limits in general, with regard to both safety and acceptable behavior.
It is those limits which they will carry forward with them into their adult lives. Without those limits, life becomes a free-for-all in which they are incapable of exercising self-control which then fosters anger and violence when consequences happen that they don't comprehend.
I don't normally like Parents Magazine, but here is a very interesting article that acknowledges that spanking has not been totally abandoned.
Parents Magazine
Thank you for clarifying Deanna and Bobbie. This is such a sensitive topic. I know I need to look the other way when this one comes around.:-)
Personally, I was a spanker. And I wish I hadn't. I think for a child under 2 or 3, there is little likelihood that the child will associate and remember the spank, hand slap or whatever and associate it with the behavior, so I don't think it is particularly useful. If the swat is for a safety issue, I'd remove the child or make the setting safer. If it's a behavior issue, I'd remove the child and put him/her in time-out or in bed, or remove the cause/focus of the behavior.
However, I think the proposed bill is mis-guided, difficult if not impossible to enforce, and will open whole cans of worms. I can just see a nasty neighbor reporting a parent for a swat on the tush for stepping into the street, or an older child reporting a parent for swatting 3 year old's hand when the child reaches for the stove knobs because the older child is angry about something. And the potential for battles between separating or divorcing parents ... oh my! I agree with the theory that violent behavior toward and around children can promote a tendency for the child to think that violence is the solution - which is why I didn't allow my sons to see violent TV or movies until they were 16 or so, and would never have allowed the violent video games if they had been available.
And I also agree that a major step towards preventing child abuse would be to greatly enlarge the budgets for DHS and similar agencies, beef up the training for the social worker staff - and change the rules. There has been an ongoing series in the Philadelphia Inquirer, triggered by a couple of articles nothing the deaths of children supposedly under DHS supervision and the lack of reporting/accountability on the part of DHS. In the most recent article the Inquirer proposes, and I agree, that presently the focus of DHS is "family welfare", which means trying to keep the child intact, protecting parental rights, etc., when the focus should be "child welfare". But even if the focus were to change, there are nowhere enough good, appropriate foster care situations available.
I don't think we're going to see much change until we start really believing and acting on what we say - that our children are our future and children are important - and put our money where our mouths are, in programs that have been proven to work. But I won't hold my breath.
I never had to swat my son who was such a god boy. Helen, on the other hand, I've had to swat on the behind or a light tap on her hand. Both times she cried, not because it was painful, but because it blew her little mind that Mommy could hurt her on purpose. She said, "You hurt me" She looked so betrayed. I felt horrible. Then she said to me, "No hit. We don't hit people" Repeating the words I'd said again and again.
I have never swatted again.
Children understand way more than we give them credit for, at least my little one does.
Does spanking have it's place? I don't know. It's not a parenting strategy I will be using with my daughter.
Should other parents have the right to use it? Absolutely!
Ame
Well said Ame.
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