Censoring Books
Moms View Message Board: The Kitchen Table (Debating Board): Censoring Books
My mom is a librarian and when I was a child and teen, my mom pretty much let my sisters and me, read whatever we wanted to read. That included Judy Blume books and all that they entailed (masturbation and possibly losing virginity.) I loved those books, by the way and probably read every one at the library.
Today, Sarah was spending a gift card and bought Forever in Blue: The 4th Summer of the Sisterhood (Traveling Pants). Anyway, the clerk felt the need to warn us that some of the content might be inappropriate. (There's a pregnancy scare, apparently.) Well, Sarah is 17 and will be 18 in 6-1/2 months. I feel comfortable with Sarah reading this book as I would probably any book of the same genre. I don't think it's the clerk's business what my kids read. Sarah was a bit putoff, too. Her whispered comment to me was, "I'm almost 18!"
Bleah. Wish I would have had a snappy comeback, but I usually can't think of them on the spot.
I don't understand why you are so upset. I think that the clerk was just covering her bases. She didn't know what kind of mother you are. You might have been a total prude, and when you found out what kind of content was in the book, you could have made a big stink about it with the store and demanded to know why the woman didn't warn you about it when you were at the checkout. There's always that possibility.
Other than that, Whether or not I would object to the Traveling Pants books or not, I can't say. But I don't have a problem with a librarian or sales clerk taking the extra step to help me protect my child from being exposed to material that I might object to.
I don't know. When I worked in a bookstore I don't think I would have made a similar comment. First because Sarah was older (If she was 10 then maybe) and second because Dawn was right there and was obviously not bothered by her daughter buying the book.
I think the clerk was totally out of line. If it were me, I'd write a letter to the store manager or owner and tell them what occurred. I think the clerk was inserting her personal beliefs into your daughter's purchase of the book. And the fact that you were right there and, I assume, clear accompanying your daughter, makes it worse, imo. I would indeed write a letter, because if the clerk did it to your Sarah, she has probably done this before and will do it again until she is told that she could jeopardize her job by doing so. This is, on a milder scale, akin to a pharmacy clerk who doesn't want to sell birth control to unmarried persons (being of the personal belief that unmarried people shouldn't be having sex).
I think libraries, (school and public), have to separate some books into an "adult" section and require parental permission before permitting children under a certain age to borrow "adult" books - because a library is tax supported and if they didn't there could be a major fuss. Whether they "should" be required to do this is a matter of personal opinion, and I don't know that I have a firm opinion.
But a book store is a whole other category. I know that in many states or communities there are laws requiring book stores to put clearly "adult content" material (soft and hard •••• with verbal or pictorial graphic content) in a separate section and not allow minors into that section nor sell the material to minors, and I am all for that. But the book you describe doesn't fit into that category by a long country mile.
Totally out of line IMO. First, it's none of her business. Second, your dd is obviously old enough to be reading what she wants!!
I probably would have said something smarty back to her, about it not being her business. If a CHILD were buying the book ALONE, MAYBE she would mention something to the child (which would result in nothing), but to a near adult with her mother? Come on.
I worked in a bookstore for a few years in college. The ONLY thing we were allowed to say or mention was with regard to the ordering of the Satanic Bible. We didn't keep it in stock, but of course it was orderable. When it was ordered, it was ALWAYS by a teenager. My boss and the district manager required that when it came in and we made the call, that we asked to speak to a parent or leave a detailed message about the pick up. Very few were picked up after being ordered. I'm not sure if that's a debate in itself, but I just did what I was told to do.
I probably wouldn't have been able to hold my tongue either. I would have responded by asking "Inappropiate for whom?" And, come to think of it, isn't the Traveling Pants series labeled as 'young adult'? Dawn's daughter certainly looks like a young adult to me. The clerk WAS out of line.
I agree with Ginny and think this clerk was inserting her beliefs onto you and I would have been insulted and unless it's the only store in town, I might not be going back any time soon. The only kinds of comments I find acceptable when buying or borrowing a book are 'I hope you enjoy that as much as I did' or 'I didn't like that as much, maybe you'll enjoy it more' and so on. Otherwise, I'm not interested in your opinion.
If the clerk refused to sell you the book, or told you don't buy this book because ... Then I could see it as being out of line. If all she did was warn you that there were sexual topics in the book, then I don't see anything wrong. Perhaps she didn't know if you knew what was in the book, even though you were standing right there. When I took Deenie (sp) by Judy Blume out of the library with my mom standing right there and I was 12 or 13, I'm sure my mom had no clue what was in that book. Had she, I don't think she would have let me read it. Nor would she have let me read some of the other "young adult" fiction out there that I bought with her standing right there. Frankly, her tepid little Regency romance novels were mild compared to some of he stuff in the JB books.
I frankly wish someone had said something before I opened the first of those books. Like Heidi said in another post, it's like the frog in a cool pot as the water slowly warms. One book lead to another and I learned things quite young, that I would have rather learned when I was older.
Yes, Sarah is almost 18, but does she look it? I could have been taken for 14 or 15 when I was 18. The clerk didn't know for sure how old she was, nor if you knew what was in the book. It doesn't sound as if she was rude, (and if she was, that's different). It just sound like she gave you a heads up for you to do what you wanted with. You could easily have said, "Thanks for the warning, my daughter is old enough to choose her own reading material" But good lines never come to us when we're in the situation, do they
Just take it as a compliment that someone was watching out for your daughter.
Ame
I personally don't see the big deal in it either. Just because a mom is standing right beside you doesn't mean the mom knows everything the look is about. Also, I think it is very hard to tell how old kids are these days. Some are 11 and look 16 and some 16 year olds can look and act 11!! I think she was just trying to be helpful and mention that there is something in the book you might not feel is appropriate. I guess I just don't see the big deal.
The big deal, in my mind, is a store clerk intruding her personal morality into a customer's purchase. I don't think that is appropriate. I think the clerk was possibly trying to discourage the purchase of the book by someone she deemed "too young" to read about unmarried pregnancy, which I also think is inappropriate behavior on the clerk's part.
If it had been "Life in the Emerald City", and the store clerk had said something about it being a book against the Iraq war and the Bush administration; or Carter's book, "Palestine: Peace, Not Apartheid", and the clerk had said something about the book being anti-Israel and anti-semitic; or Pat Robertson's book, "The New World Order", and the clerk said Robertson is a right-wing Christian and the book is anti-semitic, what would you think?
Other than liquor store clerks refusing to sell alcohol to minors; store clerks refusing to sell cigarettes to minors; and clerks refusing to sell pornography to minors - all of which sales are governed by law, I think a store clerk should refrain from intruding his/her personal opinions/morality into a purchase unless the customer asks for an opinion. And if it were me I would not only have told the clerk she was out of line, I would have complained to the store manager.
I don't want a book store clerk trying to influence what people read, any more than I want a grocery store clerk making disapproving comments when I buy meat. If you can't keep your personal opinions out of your service to customers, you should look for another line of work.
I didn't get at all that she was trying to discourage her from buying the book or putting her morals into anything. All Dawn said she said was "some of the content might be inappropriate" Unless there is a whole lot more to this than she stated, I don't know how that is seen as putting her morals into anything. Have you ever watched television shows or the news or anything like that where they say, if you have children in the room, you might want to turn the chanel or something along those lines? Do you think Oprah or Montel or the newscasters are putting their morals on you? All she did was give a mom the heads up that there might be something in the book she might not be ok with her reading. Didn't refuse to sell the book, no mention was made at all that the clerk was looking down on her like she was a terrible mother or that the clerk felt she shouldn't let her read it. If any of that was done, I would agree that she stepped over the line. A little heads up...I would appreciate in case I wasn't aware of every chapter in the book!!
She never tried to discourage us from buying the book. Even with the warning, I really didn't care. Sarah probably does look younger, because she's not all that tall. I just didn't think the warning was necessary, because we were going to buy the book anyway. Even in the first book, one of the girls is trying to hit on the soccer coach and another girl is in love with a boy she meets in Greece, so the theme runs through even the first three books, somewhat. We just wanted to buy the book.
I was maybe more annoyed, because my youngest sister tried to discourage my younger sister, from buying it for my niece, because of inappropriate content, so the issue had already come up, before we went to the bookstore, since we were at my middle sister's house. Middle sister (C) bought it for her almost 13yo anyway. She didn't appreciate the youngest sister(M) trying to tell her (C) what books to buy or not buy for C's daughter.
What I would be annoyed about is the insinuation that Dawn wasn't a good mother who monitored what her child read....and that she hadn't bothered to check out the book before committing to buy it and allow her daughter to read it. The clerk knew nothing about Dawn or her parenting practices, but she seemed to assume Dawn was clueless.
I do think parents need to know what their kids are reading. Yes, I read Judy Blume, NO, my DDs will NOT be reading her for a loooong time, except for the Fudge books and similar ilk.
So that's what I would be upset about...that the clerk didn't think Dawn was a good mom who took good care of her daughter and insulated her from bad stuff or inappropriate stuff at certain ages.
Altho, Dawn, I have to say, how did the clerk know you were going to buy the book anyway? She didn't know you'd read the first three. She didn't know if you knew squat about this fourth book. It's quite possible there could have been something you WOULD object to in a book, and maybe knowledge beforehand WOULD cause you to change your mind.
>>"The big deal, in my mind, is a store clerk intruding her personal morality into a customer's purchase."<<
Yes,yes,yes!! I could say the same thing to a customer about a Ren & Stimpy video because *I* personally have issues with the content of Ren & Stimpy. Does that mean it's my business to say something? No way! She's JUST A CLERK, plain and simple. She takes the cash and gives change. End of story. It's none of her business if she thinks it has inappropriate content. "Inappropriate content" at the young adult level especially is extremely individualized IMO.
I just think the clerk completes a transaction only. She doesn't judge material unless she's ASKED, which bookstore employees sometimes are. Dawn didn't ask about the clerk about the book, she simply asked that a sale be completed. I would just be ticked if a clerk had made this comment to me.
Oh, I would have busted out laughing. I would prefer booksellers not pass judgment on their customers' selections. Reading material is such a personal thing. The clerk made a whole bunch of assumptions with her comment and since her assumptions may be wrong (and were wrong in this case) she needs to keep her mouth shut. I don't even like it when a bookseller tells me, "Oh this is a great book."
It's like going to the grocery store and the check out clerk saying things like, "So, I see you prefer tampons to pads. You know tampons can cause toxic shock syndrome?"
I do not see how the clerk was pushing her personal moral beliefs on you or your dd by mentioning that the content of the book might be objectionable. She was not, IMO, giving an opinion. She was giving information.
The key word is "might" be inappropriate. She didn't say it definitively, like "There is content in that book that is inappropriate." She said that there "might" be such content, which leaves the final decision to you the parent.
As I said, She didn't know you. In addition, she had no way of knowing that this issue had already come up in your family and you were already decided on it.
Suppose just for the sake of argument that you were a total prude and would not have allowed your dd to read that book had you known what it was about. When you did find out what the content of the book was you would be angry (hypothetically) and you would wonder if the clerk knew about it, then why didn't she see fit to say something? Wouldn't you have appreciated a heads up? Wouldn't you wonder if the store even cares that it is selling potentially objectionable material to minors?
Don't we as a society have a moral responsibility to bring potentially dangerous things to the attention of those who are not aware? Isn't it still acceptable to watch out for the safety of all children? Didn't someone write a book called, "It Takes a Village?"
Rather than be offended because it isn't any of her business I would be thankful for her conern and politely ask her to continue the sale.
As far as government regulated items, here are no laws (that I am aware of) that forbid stores from selling M (Mature- over 17) rated video games to children under 17, but it is just as inapporpriate for them to do so without the parents being present. Most stores have a policy in place that not only protects the children, but also protects themselves should a parent threaten legal action because their child made the successful purchase of a violent video game at their store.
I would not have been offended. I would have appreciated it, in case I didn't know about the "adult" content. I, too, don't see it that she was forcing her beliefs on anyone else. When you go to a movie, youngsters under seventeen are not supposed to be admitted into an R-rated without an adult. My Shawn looks young, too, and I have had ticket clerks ask me if I knew about some of the content. I appreciated the concern. I took it that the ticket clerk cared more about my child's sensitivity than making a buck.
I still don't see how the clerk was imposing her morality on anyone. All she did was give a heads up. She didn't say, you really shouldn't be reading this book. I don't think there was any implication that Dawn was not being a good parent,either. In fact, she was probably assuming Dawn is a good parent and would wnat to know what her daughter is reading.
A heads up is not censorship, nor imposing one's morality on another.
Ame
LOL Mommmie. I agree!
Example: In grocery line buying 3 bags of candy for my kid..."Uh ma'am, are you aware that sugar is not good for your child's teeth or overall health and can contribute to childhood obesity?"
Thanks lady...yes I'm aware...not your business, do your job,take my money, smile, and go on with your day.
"Lady, are you aware that blowing cigarette smoke in your child's face is harmful to his/her health?" Yes. Not your business.
The list could go on and on. MIND YOUR BUSINESS!!
I don't think this is censorship in any way though.
She did ask us if we'd read the other books and we answered yes we had. She said this one was "different!" Whatever.
Sarah read past the pregnancy part already and wasn't all that offended by it. Sarah was the one at the counter, since it was her gift card. Emily and I were standing behind her, with Gary off to the side.
Sarah is old enough to see R rated movies, now, too, since she is 17.
Oh, I agree. It's not censorship. Censorship is when an official body (including a library) says certain books cannot be sold or cannot be read. But I still think she was out of line.
Ginny, so does my mother!
It could be that she was required by her employer to *warn* you. It's the same with some video games and even with some CD's. I was shopping with Jen for a CD a few years ago, and the same thing happened.
The thing is, whether or not she was trying to impose her own feelings, overstepped her bounds, whatever, none of us knows what she, as an employee, was required to do.
I did wonder about that. I still found it annoying, anyway. Would have just been easier to have ordered the book online, except that it's a new book, so easily available, at a local book store.
This book store is in Milwaukee, so not one we go to often. We were only there, because of the gift card.
I guess I look at it closer to this....there are candies/cakes and sauces that have alcohol in them. Would it be offensive if the clerk said to me, upon letting my young child purchase one, to say, you know this does have a small alcohol content. Then I make an informed choice.
After spending quite a bit of time with 7th grade girls I know this, some look 10, but some look 18. You really can't tell.
What I know about Dawn's daughter is she is small, she wears glasses and dresses modestly. I bet that clerk thought was MUCH younger. Because in today's world, most 17 year olds do not dress modestly, they wear make up, have contacts, etc. I know when I look at Dawn's pictures I am suprised with their ages. I think Dawn has done an amazing job with her kids and it is nice to see, but around here, not the norm!
I also rent movies often and I love for the workers to give me their opinions, oh great movie, pretty scary, a little cheesy. So for me, it was more of a review.
I let my dd read anything she picks up, however if I preread it and think there is too much in there I won't push her to read it. I don't preread books she has bought, but I often go to the library and check out books from the young adult section.
I wonder if she thought Sarah was a lot younger than she is. Neither of my kids is into makeup, at all, so she wasn't wearing any. She must not have seen the "07" on her letter jacket! LOL!
But you know right now letter jackets are all the style and even the youngest ones can have them....I really do think she thought she was much younger. Here is my niece, she is only 10 in this picture (maybe even not quite 10).
Awww, she's cute!
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