A little peeved ...
Moms View Message Board: The Kitchen Table (Debating Board): A little peeved ...
My son today said, "you know there was a man who didn't like the rules that were made because they were unfair and he got shot with a gun and got killed"
What....? He couldn't remember the NAME of the man, just the part about him being killed with a gun for what he believed in.
Is this the way to teach a kindergarten class about Martin Luther King? Don't you focus on his name and the good things he did and kinda' gloss over the ending until children are a little older and more capable of understanding?
My children are allowed no violent television, I shelter them from the news. I didn't even know my son knew that people killed people with guns, so to hear that from him made my head spin.
Part of me knows that he's going to learn all sorts of things at school I'd rather him not know, but I assumed it would mostly be from the other kids, not from the teacher!
What do you think. Is K too young for the whole gory story or did the teacher do the right thing?
Ame
Oh, and I haven't even mentioned "race" to my son. He had no concept before today that the color of a person's skin gave them a label or mattered for anything. He had no clue that he was "white" and his friend was "black". My husband wants me to cantact the district to see what the policy is on kindergarten and topics like this. He's ready to make an issue of it because he feels it is totally inappropriate for K. Having taught K (and I was in a mostly minority district) I agree.
Ame
I remember when my son started school and he learned things I had kept from him, such as people's race, and it freaked me out, too. Short of homeschooling, I don't think there's much you can do about it. You either send them out in the world, or you don't. It's just constant learning opportunity after learning opportunity for us as parents to deal with.
I really hated Red Ribbon week where they talk about drugs and alcohol when my son didn't even know what they were. He was 5!
And it keeps happening, Santa Claus, alcohol, cigs, drugs, sex, sexual crimes, murder, birth control, steriods, cheating, name brands, graphic music, IM'ming it's just one thing after another and many of these are first brought up by the school, by teachers, since they believe the younger they learn about things the better.
I guess I just accept it, since I chose to send him out to school.
Hhhmmmm...as a K teacher we talked about a lot when it came to Martin Luther King, Jr. I told my kids that Martin Luther King tried to change the rules back then because not everyone was treated the same. I don't *think* I brought up race though...I can't remember doing that anyway. I'm pretty sure we talked about how people were treated differently because of the way they looked. We role played differences also, really silly things, but they got it for the most part. Maybe "all the kids with tie shoes can't use the water fountain". We didn't follow through on the actual activity, meaning I didn't keep those kids from using the water fountain for example, it was just a discussion. They were appalled at those scenarios. I always thought it drove home the point that it's not fun to be treated unfairly.
We spoke of MLK, Jr. as a man who lived a long time ago and tried to make things fair. As a whole class, we didn't really discuss his death, but I DO remember a specific "with it" child or two coming to me solo and asking what happened to MLK,Jr. To those kids I was honest and said that some people didn't want everyone to be treated fairly and they didn't want MLK,Jr. to change the rules so they killed him. I think I remember telling one child that, one-on-one, who asked who I knew could process that info. Then I also added that they should talk with their parents about MLK,Jr., and sent a note with that child about our discussion (or made a call, I can't remember).
I never just blurted out MLK was shot and killed. It was the one-liner, hidden end of the story that only a few kids heard from me. Primarily they knew he lived a long time ago.
Since this is history, I don't think children should be sheltered from it necessarily. I think parents should be notified that this will be a topic of discussion and to possible expect questions from their child about it.
Having said that though, I think the big lesson at the K level for MLK,Jr. is what he tried to do,WHY he was trying to do it, and because of him there were changes made for people to be treated more equally.
Ame- If I had heard those comments from Natalie coming home from school, I would probably share the same concerns. Natalie doesn't have a clue what a gun is or what killed or dead means. It sounds like it was blurted out and the gun and the shooting were the focus instead of the impact MLK,Jr. had. THAT I don't agree with.
Mommmie - It's interesting that you mention Red Ribbon Week, because you're coming from a different side of things than I experienced when I taught. (I think exactly as you do!) I taught in a VERY low-income, poverty stricken school, with tons of very young single parents with multiple children. During Red Ribbon Week when we talked about drugs, you should have heard the stories I heard!! "My Daddy smokes pot", "My Mom is in jail because she can't quit smokin' pot", "My Dad drinks beer and hits my mom". I could go on. When I had to discuss Red Ribbon Week, *I* felt bad because I was essentially telling these 5 yr. old little ones that what their parents do is going to make them unhealthy and sick, and that it's a bad choice. That left them to wonder and fear what would happen to their parents, and also get me in trouble by parents at times, too! It's so sad.
>>..."many of these are first brought up by the school, by teachers, since they believe the younger they learn about things the better."<<
Not sure how to take this statement as a teacher. A)I'm required by the school to discuss Red Ribbon Week. I hated doing it at the K level. Maybe it would have been better if I had taught 6th grade. B)I think the "school" sees the big picture of what the large group of children does/acts/participates in/wonders about because they see everyone interacting with each other. Does that make any sense? Seeing the whole school as a group, all those "bad" things such as birth control, drugs, sex seem so necessary to be talked about because we hear it day-to-day in school and it's a concern. Individually, maybe not at all, but one individual affects many others so I think that's part of it.
More later!
Exactly, Deanna. That was the kind of stuff I did in my classroom. We learned parts of the "I have a dream ..." speech, we rollplayed, we sang songs.
It is history but how much history does a K child need to know? You can tell a child about history and not give all the facts. "He lived a long time ago" If they ask what happened to him, "He lived a long time ago. He died. If you want to know more, talk with your parents about it" These were the kind of answers I gave.
Ame
It seems that everything they tried to teach about social studies before 3rd grade went totally over my son's head. He never really applied himself before then, but as far as that curriculum went, I don't think he was the least bit interested, either.
I looked up our current social studies curriculum requirements on our district's Website. Apparently at our school, the curriculum has changed since my ds was in K, and they are now required to learn this:
Social Studies Standards - Kindergarten
History
K:1 TLW (The Learner Will) use time and chronology as a means for understanding past, present, and future events.
K:2 TLW describe, analyze, and evaluate past events and the individuals involved.
Geography
K:3 TLW describe, compare, and explain the characteristics of environment around home
and school.
Civics
K:4 TLW identify the purposes for home, school, and community rules and safety practices
to establish personal responsibilities of citizenship.
K:5 TLW determine relationships between rights and responsibilities among individuals in
a democratic society and use processes for conflict resolution.
Economics
K:6 TLW describe and explain how individuals and families identify needs and wants and how
they are provided in the marketplace.
Individuals and Groups in Society
K:7 TLW describe and explain the causes, consequences, and geographic, civic, economic, and historic contexts of local, state, national, and/or global issues and events.
Good grief! So much for "quiet time!" If they load up the curriculum any heavier, snack time will be gone, too!
I know that ds was never given the lessons on the marketplace until 1st grade when we went on a field trip to the local Meijer store. And I know that ds was never given the lessons on the relationship between rights and responsibilities until 2nd grade when he brought home this assignment from school that he totally messed up on. (I had other issues with this assignment that I brought up with the teacher as well.)
The main theme of civics is "Core Democratic Values." However, I have to question the whole point of teaching this curriculum so early. When I was in school (here I go- boy does that sound old!) we were taught about the founding of our nation (you know, the Declaration of Independence, George Washington, and the Constitution) before we were taught about rights and responsibilities. I mean, how do we know what it means to have rights until we have an understanding of why our nation was founded in the first place??!!
As far as MLK, there is a lot of attention focused on him in our school. Around MLK's birthday there is a week long study of him. He is now my son's favorite historical figure.
I asked him what he knows about how he died, and he said, "A white guy shot him in the head because he didn't like the rules he made." (I explained to him that MLK didn't make rules, but he was trying to get others to make rules that he thought were right. )
I asked, "What rules was MLK trying to make?" and he said, "He wanted black and white people to all have the same rights."
DD in K told me that it's Martin Luther King JR. (Don't forget the JR. Apparently that is important.) He was a preacher that got shot and that's all she got out of it.
Weekly Readers are a wonderful thing. .
I teach preschool and it told us exactly how to approach it.
At school today, 2 of the first graders were telling me all about him, that he got shot and someone threw something at his house and that it was his birthday.
You had school today???
It's district-choice here as well, as far as observing MLK,Jr. day or not. My corporation does not attend on this day, but 2 schools in the area do.
We never have off for MLK day. Next Monday we have off, because the teachers have to do their grades.
We had school today, too.
I read this today and thought it was interesting. We need more history in school.
Students' knowledge of Martin Luther King's legacy a mixed bag
I disagree with the notion that the reason more students do not understand what King stood for has anything to do with No Child Left Behind. That act has only been around for a short number of years, but we have had Black History Month and Martin Luther King Jr. Day for a very long time now.
I'm in the mindset that we should have President's Day as a holiday not MLK, Jr. day.
My opinion, of course.
In NY we have President's Week - midwinter recess.
It's interesting you should say that, Annie.
N.J. Veterans Angry Over Education Bill
John Adler, a democrat New Jersey State Senator, is the sponsor of a proposal that would allow New Jersey schools to stop teaching their students about certain American holidays, including Veterans Day, Memorial Day, Columbus Day, and Thanksgiving.
Since 1967 New Jersey law has required schools to observe the holidays to promote "the development of a higher spirit of patriotism." But Adler cites a 2004 report by a state commission that recommended giving schools flexibility on the holidays. Adler says he questions whether the schools even bother to instruct students about Veterans Day, Memorial Day, Columbus Day, and Thanksgiving anyway, so let's do away with it.
It was passed unanimously by the New Jersey legislature.
Granted that the law does not forbid the schools from teaching about these holidays, either. And the other article I read says that, in reality, these holidays are in fact observed in schools. But what kind of a message does this send to our young people about the importance of the sacrifices that have been made to win and preserve our freedoms and make this country better than it was before?
So not only do they not know about MLK, they don't know about Veterans Day, Memorial Day, or Columbus Day. It seems as though no one in education cares about American History anymore.
I haven't read all the responses, but in kinder is whn my youngest also learned about race. We have a very multicultural set of friends so he just never noticed it. Well he came home from school and said, "mommy you would of had to sit at the middle of the bus". When I asked why, he said because you are "half black". (i have freckles...LOL) They really are too young to get it, MLK was a great man, talk about that, but they can't grasp the details at that young!
My dks learned about race early. My dh is hispanic, and I am caucasian. My oldest ds is darker skinned, and my ds is very light. So, they asked questions early on about why their skin is different colors.
Are you sure what he told you came straight from the teacher? I know, that one time there was a big discussion at school about something(I can't remember what). The kids at his table were talking about it after the teacher talked with them. Part of what he told me was from the teacher, but the other part was from one of the dks in his class.
I defintiely think kids are exposed to things earlier and earlier. But, unfortunately, unless you keep your kids away from everyone, they are going to hear and learn things. I just try to keep communication open. We have some very interesting dinner conversations about what they are hearing/learning. Dh and I just try to reinforce our beliefs, morals, etc during these talks.
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