School, teen clash over medieval photo
Moms View Message Board: The Kitchen Table (Debating Board): School, teen clash over medieval photo
Any thoughts?
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070113/ap_on_re_us/medieval_re_enactors
Oh, geez. I thought it would be a link. If anyone could make it a link, I'd really appreciate it. TIA
I think the school has to abide by the "no weapons" policy. I know that the whole medieval thing is a HUGE hobby for so many people, and although *I* don't understand it, I see nothing wrong with it at all. Different strokes for different folks, but I agree that the school can't allow pictures of students posing with weapons. THIS boy means no harm obviously, and it's obviously part of his hobby, but it is still a weapon. These days that just can't fly, so I understand where the school is coming from.
No one is saying they can't participate in their hobby. They just can't allow photos with weapons in a school-related picture/activity/whatever. His hobby is outside of school and since it does involve weapons, it has to remain outside of school.
I guess i don't see why he won't just pose in his armor and leave the sword our of the picture. DH was involved in this kind of thing in his teens and it is a really cool hobby but I agree that if they let him have a sword in his pic next thing yo0u know they are going to have to allow other weapons in other pics and that could be really bad news..
There's this from the article, " It points out that the school's mascot, a patriot, is sometimes shown carrying a weapon."
If the school doesn't take it's own policy seriously I'm not sure how they can have any authority in this case.
Link
I think that people take the "Zero Tolerance Policy" to enact the Zero Common Sense Actions. I'm sick of ZTP. A 5 yo can't play cowboys and Indians or Cops and Robbers or Ninja Turtles or anything any more b/c of ZTP.
Medieval Picture
I hate ztp, too. Common sense goes right out the window. It didn't really look all that weapon-like to me and really not all that scary.
I am having a very hard time deciding.
I wanted to see a picture of the school mascot (if the school had a Website, I can't find it) so while doing a search, I found the original story with the senior photo in question.
http://www.eastbayri.com/story/306824451458316.php
I would have tried resting the sword in a holster on his side rather then brandishing it. Perhaps then the photo *might* not have raised so many objections.
I understand the argument about the school mascot. Lots of schools use a mascot that includes weapons, my own school included.
And I also understand the passion for history. I personally think that history is fascinating and this boy's participation is this group should be encouraged.
On the other hand, I do believe that some restraint could be shown. I mean, all I can see is his face behind that costume. For me, as far as a senior photo is concerned, I would rather my son wear a nice shirt and pants.
And I don't think that this is merely about individual expression. I mean, if his hobby were hunting, I think that most everyone would support the school if it were to forbid him to submit a photo of him in hunter's clothing posing with a shotgun, real or fake.
But then, on the other hand (how many "other hands" can I get?) if his hobby were karate then the school would have no problem with him posing in a martial arts uniform, even tho his hands could be considered lethal weapons.
I can see so many facets in this dilemma that I can't think straight.
I do think that schools should get their acts together.
These Zero Tolerance Policies should be axed. They are totally impractical and cannot be reasonably applied in each and every case that comes along.
I also think that the "free speech" thing has been totally blown out of whack. We often read of inconsistencies of what is allowed and what is not, either by the school, or by the courts. No one really knows what to permit and what not to. I could site examples, but I don't want to distract from the hobby issue.
I completely agree about ZTP and it's SOOOO true that little ones can't even play cops and robbers and that's very irritating. On the other hand, it makes me wonder because it seems to me that we're living in a time where nothing can be trusted. Five year olds really DO bring weapons to school and verbally threaten others. (I've experienced this firsthand, more than once.) Then it seems like the only thing to do is go ZTP. It doesn't seem fair but it seems like the overprotective way.
It's very confusing I think and ZTP is essentially a load of crap, but I guess I don't know what else we can do? You're so right about karate, but karate is only used in self-defense. Didn't medieval people fight to the death for fun, charging each other on their horses with swords? I don't know, I'm just throwing that out there. I think this kid has an interesting hobby that he obviously loves, and it's just unfortunate that it isn't acceptable because it involves weapons. With all the terrible things that "kids" are doing these days, people just worry and are overprotective, making it very unfair for all of the good kids who mean no harm.
I have little patience with ZTP, because I think it is a cop-out from school administrators having to thoughtfully deal with each situation as it occurs. On the other hand, it does give the administrators an out when angry parents complain about why Johnny can't bring a pocket-knife to school or wear a t-shirt with a marijuana emblem on it. Still, I am inclined to think, from what I've read, that harmless kids are punished for harmless events under the rubric of ZTP.
I know some people involved in SCA (Society for Creative Anachronism) activities, and on the whole they seem like a wholesome hobby. Renaissance Fairs, which grew out of SCA, are popular in many areas.
Still, this is a high-school yearbook, and I think the school administration should have the right to decide what is in it and what is not, providing the guidelines are clear and published in advance. There, I think, is the problem - the administration is relying on ZTP to rule out the photo, instead of having year-book photo guidelines, and I don't think ZTP applies in this situation. Without clear guidelines published in advance, it becomes very subjective, and an administrator could rule out anything he/she doesn't like and call upon some rule that doesn't really apply to the year-book situation.
As far as the yearbook photo....I liked the "old days" when it was required that young men wore a jacket and tie, and young women wore a dark coloured dress or dressy sweater and a necklace or pearls. (I realize that I am being the old grandmother here). As I have always told my children, that yearbook is something that people will look back to thirty, forty years from now. The attire that I mentioned is classic and timeless. When you go to your twenty fifth high school reunion, you probably won't be into medieval role playing anymore, and you might be embarrassed by the picture.
As far as the school's policy...the yearbook is a representation of your years at that high school. You represent that school. As such, the school has a right to dictate the rules. If I owned a business, for example, I would want my employees to represent my business in a favourable way.
I totally support ZTP. We HAVE to. We might be punishing the few for the common good, but that is the age that we live in. Have we forgotten Columbine and other such tragedies? Children, even young ones, can indeed, be a threat to their classmate. There have been assaults and murders committed by very young children.
My DS Michael had an experience with the ZTP first hand. He had a Boy Scout pocket knife in his pants pocket at school, because he had worn the same jeans the night before at his Scout meeting and forgot that it was in there. They are allowed to have a pocket knife at the meetings, under Scout master supervision, for cutting rope, etc.. He realized that it was in his pocket while in the cafeteria, and took it out of his pocket to put it in his backpack. Another child saw him and reported him. The next thing we knew, we got a call from the school, to come right away. When my DH got there, two police officers had Mike handcuffed and were getting ready to take him into custody. He was 13 and in the eighth grade at the time. DH told them that what he was telling them was the truth, that he totally forgot that it was in the jeans, and that he was trying to stow it safely in the backpack. It took some convincing before they released him to DH.
Were we upset? Heck, yes! We didn't know what they could do to Michael, but DH was very close to calling our attorney. However, after talking further with the administration, and realizing what they are up against everyday, we supported them. They are always on a high state of alert because of their responsibility to keep the children safe. Also, there is the liability issue if an incident DID happen, and they did nothing. The school even holds "lock down" drills for just such an (God forbid) event. If the policy is ZERO weapons, than it HAS to be zero for everyone.
As someone said, if the student's hobby was hunting, should a school allow the kid to pose with a gun, and maybe a dead animal? That represents the taking of life.
I admit that it is new territory, and a delicate line, but it is easier for everyone if it is accross the board, zero tolerance. JMHO.
I can understand that having a knife at school could be a source of alarm. But a kid got suspended from a local elementary school here for DRAWING a pic of the knife he'd gotten for his birthday. He was drawing the pic for his friend to show him what it looked like, teacher saw it and next thing he was suspended b/c of ZTP. There was no malice involved,no threats, he's a good kid, I go to church with him, never been in trouble at school except for talking too much. But school officials stand on ZTP. Bull hockey pucks.
Another 5 yo was playing at recess. Two little boys were talking about the one going hunting over the weekend with his dad. He pulled his arms and hands up like he was shooting a rifle. Teacher saw him and he got suspended based on ZTP. Again, he was 5, in K, not a troublesome kid, no real weapon, not threatening anybody.
Where is the common sense in that?
But as for the medieval kid, I have a ds that really gets into that stuff, too. Loves swords. But he's about as easy going and nonthreatening as they go. And his friends love the sword play and the games. But none of them would ever hurt a fly.
And when I was in hs and editor of the yearbook, I authorized all the pics that went into it with my teacher/sponsor having final say. I don't think we would have even asked administration about putting a pic in. Nobody on staff except that teacher knew anything about anything in the yearbook until it came back from the printer.
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