In light of all the gift-giving conundrums...
Moms View Message Board: The Kitchen Table (Debating Board): In light of all the gift-giving conundrums...
Here's a little video I find very thought-provoking.
P.S. Mods is you find it too controversial, please move it to the debate board.
Hhhmmm...yes, interesting. Thanks for posting it.
My personal thought...I thought it was way too serious for something simple - a season of giving. That's what Christmas is to me in the simplest form. At this time of year, I give gifts to the people I love and I give gifts to people I don't know who are in need. When I had more money, I gave more gifts to the people I love and more gifts to people I don't know who are in need. It's relative. I do see that people go overboard in buying gifts for people at Christmas, but in general, I just think people do that because they enjoy watching others get what they want. It doesn't necessarily mean that person is materialistic or capitalistic, it just means they wanted something and they got it.
People are wandering the store aisles trying to give a gift that makes a loved one happy. Is there anything so wrong with that? They may also be giving them a hug and a sincere "I love you". They may also be spending the day baking and singing songs and reading the Night Before Christmas or the story of Jesus' birth. The giving of a gift(s) doesn't change that. It doesn't lessen the experience. If we're teaching our children that Christmas is 'receiving' time, then we're dropping the ball. If we're teaching them that this is a time of giving, then we're all doing the right thing IMO.
I hope I'm not missing something here, but in my opinion I think this video is way too serious.
Not only was it too serious, it was exploitative of the children who were used to speak in the video. I don't think they understand or even care what the point of the video was about, nor do I think that they even understand the reason for the season. This video is propaganda against the form of economy which has helped this country succeed in flourishing, in becoming a nation with one of the highest standards of living, and providing opportunity for all, and to use children is it is reprehensible.
From Wikipedia "Paulo Freire contributes a philosophy of education that comes not only from the more classical approaches stemming from Plato, but also from modern Marxist and anti-colonialist thinkers."
In other words, if it were up to the dude referenced in the video, the United States of America would not exist as it does today. Ironically, he was an education philosopher, not an economist.
Tony Campolo, the teachings of whom inspired the video, is also a very leftist thinker. I get irritated with people who try to make me feel guilty for living in a prosperous nation as though I were greedy and didn't care about the less fortunate. This video makes no sense- "Don't give up on giving." We already are the country made up of people who give more than any other country in times of crisis (not the government, the people) yet this video criticizes us for being less human because we give Christmas gifts to people who don't need them. eeesh. Pass the Starbucks.
Okay...definitely needs to be moved to the debate board I can see--LOL. I knew it would be thought-provoking as I stated, but didn't realize it would garner such strong emotions. Sorry for posting it here. Hopefully after the mods move it the discussion can continue. It's been awhile since there has been a lively debate.
Cocoa - Well said!!! ROFL on "Pass the Starbucks."
>>"I get irritated with people who try to make me feel guilty for living in a prosperous nation as though I were greedy and didn't care about the less fortunate."<<
I couldn't agree more and well said. I think there are people who feel that if you "have" something you're doing an injustice to someone else. DH and I "have" because we've worked hard, not because someone gave us something or we got a free ride. And let's face it, there are lots of different reasons why people are in "need" - some are from Third World countries and don't have food and shelter, while others (like the home I was in today) are just LOSERS plain and simple. Lots of varieties of need for sure.
Sorry...didn't see your post Pam!
Okie dokie.....I moved it just now.....*just in case*.........
Don't drink the Koolaid, little boys.
Not only was it too serious, it was exploitative of the children who were used to speak in the video. I don't think they understand or even care what the point of the video was about, nor do I think that they even understand the reason for the season. This video is propaganda against the form of economy which has helped this country succeed in flourishing, in becoming a nation with one of the highest standards of living, and providing opportunity for all, and to use children is it is reprehensible.
Ditto to everything you said. I honestly would like to see what would happen to the entire world if the USA stopped giving. I think it would become very apparent how giving we are.... To use those children was disgraceful....
Cocoa - you and I are so politically in tune!
Spare me this bull. First of all the video makes no sense. Am I supposed to give, wait don't give? Oh give to the person who has everything but put it in a box? Wait, am I supposed to jump out of a box? hee hee And to use kids who have no idea what they are saying is reprehensable. I have worked hard for what I have and no one gave me any handouts so I will give when I want, to whom I want, and at times I will refuse to give just because I want to. And I don't feel a bit of guilt. A grande peppermint mocha with skim milk, please.
Ditto Cocoabutter, ditto Vicki, and ditto Mommmie!! And ditto Reeciecup that it makes no sense....give, don't give, give but put it in a box, etc.
I found it disgusting.
Those kids look too young to really understand what it is they're saying!
Ditto everyone!! I was thinking of this video when I went to bed lastnight and thought the same thing Reecie mentioned...give, don't give, huh?? Reecie...EXACTLY!
I also thought the people who made this video apparently have nothing else to do if this is what they are spending their time coming up with. Maybe they should go out and get jobs like the rest of us and work all day. I don't have NEARLY enough time to think about the complexity of everything their trying to imply in this video.
I will be the different voice here. I enjoyed the video.
My inlaws make a LOT of money. They are even Jewish. However, my husband and his brothers were raised Christian (divorced family). So every year we celebrate Christmas together, we are absoluletly expected to buy him Christmas gifts. Literally if he provides a list, often it has socks and undies on it. REALLY. So the joy of giving isn't there, it is about obligation. So the whole what do you give to someone who has everything? With my dad it is so different, we do give him nothing material, sometimes I find something I know he has been looking for. Other times I have donated money to certain organizations. Next year I am going to buy him a cow Look on rachel ray's website. However with my FIL one year we donated a significant amount to the American Cancer Society and he was much less than impressed. So yes in my opinion it has gone to far.
I buy gifts for lots of people, we spend lots of money. I do it because I love them and I want to watch them open stuff and I want to watch them play with stuff. I try hard to draw the line of giving gifts out of obligation.
Think about just HOW much we spend on the holidays. When I do the math, I know we clear spending 1000 dollars easy. Our world would be a much better place if we all took 10 percent of what we spent and sent it to where it was really needed.
The kids were cute. And very well rehearsed. Any teacher would be proud to have them in a school play. And I agree, I doubt very much that they had any idea of the meaning of what they were saying. But they are sure cute!
As for the politics, well, you all know I am a liberal lefty. And personally, I detest and despise the commercialization of Christmas.
But this video was, to my eye and ear, more than a bit hokey. The only people who will be convinced are those who already believe. I personally prefer to not spend my time preaching to the choir, but rather find lower-key ways to persuade people to listen to a possibly different way and perhaps see that it has some virtue.
As for some of the thoughts expressed above, that's a debate for another time and thread.
Kaye, you weren't clear about who it is that you HAVE to buy gifts for- but I get what you are saying. Gifts aren't as much fun to give when they are expected as when they come from the heart.
It sounded funny to me, asking for socks and undies for Christmas! LOL There has to be SOMETHING more extravagant on his wish list, but maybe he just doesn't want to burden the family with a list of expensive gifts?
Aside from the XBox 360 we bought for ds (as well as for dh) we have only spent about $300 on the whole family. We are talking my mom and dad, my MIL, my FIL and his wife, my BIL and his gf, dh's grandma, and dh. (He hasn't bought mine yet- typical last minute kind of guy! ) I buy sales mostly, and I start early.
Although, this week has been very busy since I am having Christmas dinner here at my house (for the first time in 5 years) and I am the room mom this year so I am shopping for the class party and I can't find any non-red candy canes for the boy in ds's class who is allergic to red dye and the PTO is planning the carnival for February so we are running around town picking up raffle donations and the dog needed grooming and the only yarn shop around is on the other side of town (for dh's grandma) and I have to clean my house and shop for Christmas dinner.
So while I FEEL like Christmas is getting a bit out of control this year, it really isn't as far as the money we have been spending on presents for people who don't need anything. It's just a bunch of things coming all together at once.
Sorry not to be clear, it is my FIL that is very tough to buy for. He literally buys what he wants and needs and instead of getting crap he doesn't want he asks for socks and undies. We sometimes buy them too...it is sad. This year he did better, he wanted some new golf clubs and a golf jacket (all items over 100 dollars, but under 200).
My husband comes from a large family, plus extended step family. We end up buying gifts for 5 children under 14, 9 siblings and spouses and then 4 parents. I mail out 100 christmas cards and I only buy for my one niece on my side of the family. Between my two elementary students I have 6 main teachers, plus extra if I feel like buying for the speech therapist and OT and GT teacher. It just all adds up rather quickly.
I don't mind shopping for the kids, but the adults get out of hand imo. But he has two siblings not married and if we don't buy for them, then they don't really get Christmas. It is all a little crazy here.
I love the parties though. So far I have hosted 100 carolers at my house via Girl scouts, provided food for the cub scout pack, had a troop GS party, attended a cub scout party. I am having christmas eve and day here, then I am hosting the dessert course (we do a progressive dinner) on new years eve.
Wow, Kaye, that is a lot of people to buy for! My 2 sisters and I don't buy presents for each other and we don't exchange presents with my DH's brother and sil, so that makes it a little easier.
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