License to have kids
Moms View Message Board: The Kitchen Table (Debating Board): License to have kids
Every person has to have a license to drive, own a car, own a boat, have a dog, go fishing, to hunt game, to own a gun, to get married, to have a business, to do home renovations, to fly a plane,to cut hair,etc. (I'm sure I am leaving some out...)
What a person can do WITHOUT a license is have a child. You can create a human life without instruction/registration, but you can't fish for catfish without permission from the state.
I think one should.
Does this make sense? Should people have to take classes/obtain a license to procreate?
I have often wondered if as many people would become parents if they had to go through the rigorous screening that adoptive parents go through.
I once read a science fiction short story where everyone got a birth control implant (indefinite duration and without side effects) at puberty, men and women. In order to get a license to have a child and have the implants removed, you and your spouse had to spend six months fostering an android baby/toddler. Which was programmed for colic, diarrhea, endless crying without any perceptible reason, rashes, the whole nine yards of the frustrating things about an infant. And the android recorded everything that happened. In this story, the couple applying for the license didn't get it.
Absolutely!
Are you referring to the essay written by a man named Jerry Steinberg? I don't agree with the term "License", but the idea that teenagers and young adults should attend classes to learn parenting techniques and the various stages children go through is a good idea. Many people go into parenting unprepared and not expecting all the challenges and frustrations (or rewards, to be fair) that go with being a parent.
Such a thing does exist to a certain degree... it is called a home study and no adoptive parent can become an adoptive parent without one!
Mommyof4..wouldn't it be interesting to see how many biological parents would actually be parents if they have to have a home study?
Jann,
When we were in the process of adopting our oldest dd I was speaking to a friend about how invasive the homestudy process was and he responded with "But, shouldn't someone make sure that these kids are going to a good home?" to which I responded (he had 2 bio children at the time) "Who came to your home when dw announced that she was pregnant? Shouldn't someone have checked to make sure that you would be bringing that child home to a "good home"?"
I would bet that not nearly as many people would have children if they had to go through the home study approval. For anyone that isn't familiar with this process you must tell complete strangers about your childhood, your finances, why you want to be a parent how you intend to pay for the adoption, how you plan to disipline, how you plan to approach the subject of adoption with your child, not to mention your relationship with your spouse and extended family members is also analyzed. Don't get me wrong these are all things that people should think about before becoming parents but I do feel that too many times biological parents may not give them a second thought.
Don't forget the FBI background checks too! And signing affadavits saying you have never been arrested for ANYTHING.
it would be nice to have to have a license, but i think its impossible.
I agree in the frustration but I certainly do not agree that we should have to get licenses. Why? Because that makes one person's standards the norm and that also puts a gov't-like group judging us worthy or not by their standards.
I know in adopting that does happen and I can appreciate the frustration. I, for one, know that by some people's standards I would be comsidered lax in one area or another and by someone else's I would be considered too strict or over the top about.
There should be more awareness to the responsibilites to what a parent is but to give the gov't that much power is pretty frightening. NO I am not a blakc-helicopters hoving type of person. I do think that the freedoms we enjoy would be surely intruded upon if we were required to have a license to have children.
A question off of this though is:
If this did happen, who would you want to choose the standards and requirements to be a prents? How would they be determined? What would the "punishmnet" be for anyone who had kids anyway?
Teresa,
You have made very valid points. I know that I was posting mostly from a "wouldn't it be nice" standpoint. Obviously all the logistics that you pointed out would cause serious problems. Even though an adoption homestudy is invasive and you are being held to someone else's idea of a model or even adequate parent the good thing is that if one agency doesn't approve an adoption for you there are other agencies that have different criteria that quite possibly would approve you.
But boy wouldn't it be nice if every child that was brought into the world was going home with parents that understood their responsibility as parents and were committed to fulfilling that responsibility not matter how difficult it is.
Yes, It would be nice that every child was brought in to the world with parents who understood all that it entails to have a child. But, that is in the ideal world.
I can be just like you and say, how the heck can those people call themselves parents and something should be done. But, when I think of all the ramifications, the system we have seems much better that someone dictating what a "parent"is. China scares me as it is and their intrusiveness on familes.
what happens in China when a mom delvers her baby? Is she made sterile? What would happen if she became pregnant?
Just wondering...
The family is ostracized and fined. That is why so many baby girls are found abandoned. If they can only have one, they want it to be a boy.
http://www.pop.org/china/fatkulin.htm
http://www.aclj.org/news/nr_010215_chinaonechild.asp
These are just 2 of many links you can find about China's policy.
Teresa,
You really have gotten me thinking about this subject. I do think that people that take the huge step into parenting should be prepared for it (as much as one can be prepared).
A parent can not take a child home from the hospital without proving to the hospital staff that they have a car seat for that child, that they know how to properly secure the child in the car seat and the car. Why couldn't parents be required to take parenting courses prior to a birth or adoption of a child?
As a CASA volunteer I have seen many parents that just didn't have the parenting knowledge that they needed to provide a safe, secure home for their children. One mom in particular had 3 kids and virtually no knowledge on what to do for a baby when it cries other than feed it. When her children were removed from her home by Health and Human Services Protection and Safety she was required to take a series of parenting courses and she is now working very hard on applying those parenting concepts that she learned (and had no idea about prior to) during her vistis with her children. She will be the first to tell you that she and her kids have benefited greatly from her gaining these skills that she most likely would not have acquired if her children had not been removed.
Now think about this...if she had had these parenting classes BEFORE her children were born it is quite possible that she and her children would have avoided the painful experience that resulted in their removal and traumatic separation from the family that has lasted over a year.
I understand TOTALLY the point you made regarding other people's standards of a "good parent" and I agree that has the potenetial for all kinds of problems. But I don't think it would be too invasive or intrusive to make sure that all parents are exposed to basic issues of safety and health of children.
As far as how to enforce this it could be along the same lines as the car seat, you must show proof that you have taken this class prior to taking the baby home and if you don't have proof then you don't take the baby home until you do(just as it currently is with the car seat..no car seat you don't go home until you have one and can properly operate it). We currently have laws in place regarding child abuse and neglect and those same laws could still apply with State Health and Human Services departments stepping in when necessary on the behalf of children. I have seen and heard too many horror stories as a CASA and I really do feel that we ALL have an obligation to do something to make sure that children are safe. I honestly believe that parenting is a priveledge not a right and when it comes to kids who are so defensless and dependent we have to do something to make sure that they are protected and for me I wouldn't have a problem with sitting in another pre-natal, pre-adoption class.
I didn't have to prove that I knew how to install a childseat securely, I just had to have her in one when I took her home.
About the classes, I partially agree on that and the same time have some issues with it. Just because someone has a piece of paper saying that they took the class does not mean that they would apply what they gleaned from the class. KWIM???
Plus, I have been to various types of classes and while on some things, I do apply what is said, I also am not into all of what the safety people say, because someof it takes it too far as far as I am concerned. I do not bring this up as an additional debate, I just have some different views.
After the "proof", is there then going to be a follow up. That is usually how the course of how some of these things go and how far is too far for intrusiveness in our lives. Do we have to take the course before each child, or is it a one time requirement?
I agree, there are some people out there who have no clue. There is no easy solution either.
You do bring up some good ideas. Implementation is always something that gets very out of control and is hard to figure out how it should be done.
It must just be a Nebraska law that you have to show hospital staff that the car seat is installed properly because I know that I had to with all three of my children that I took home from the hospital and my sister is a nurse in Nebraska and whenever they have a family go home they must go out the door with them and make sure that they have installed the seat properly (she works in a different hospital in a different city than where my kids were born).
As for follow up that is what we have State Department of Health and Human Services for it is their job to step in and protect a child when a child is in danger.
I really think that I moved past the "liscence" issue while it would be nice to be able to make sure that every person who choose to parent was prepared to do so I am not longer debating that your points regarding the logistics could/would be a complete nightmare.
As for the safety class issues I am refering to those basic things as what things can cause a chocking hazard in an infant and toddler etc. OR if that is too invasive for you the class could cover just those safety issues that if not followed are against the law ie. no car seat for children, not leaving a child/infant home alone, not leaving a child under 8 in the car alone (this is against the law in nebraska...may not be where you are). These are all things that we have laws against and incredibly there are many people that just weren't aware that these things are dangerous and illegal. I realize that for many parents this would be a redundant thing but if it saved just one little child then who am I to say that an hour or two or three of MY time is more valuable than their life?
I guess Teresa for ME it all comes down to protecting innocent little children not about my own rights or privacy being invaded and I honestly DO respect that it means something different for you
I do think that we always have to look out for the safety and protection of the little children and agree that much should be done to help everyone know those issues.
I know I must sound a little out there about privacy invasion and I don't mean to get that way. I have seen some things go way too far and I get nervous. I had noticed that you were not in the license thinking anymore and that you were in the realm of safety concerns. I appreciate that and am there in many ways. I do know our hospital covered a lot of that during our stay. We were also given a ton of literature while we were pg and in the hospital to help bring awareness. It does come down to people choosing to read the material and people wanting to know.
I had been reading much and have many nieces and nephews so have been exposed to a lot of these issues long before I was pg. I forget that there are many people who do not know this and that their awareness needs to be improved.
This has been a great discussion. I think you and I are on the same page about most of this and this has been a greawt discussion.
Thanks
Teresa,
Yes I think it was a great discussion as well. Thank you for letting me know your views as it made me step back and examine mine and see that my logic was a little flawed in areas and certainly controlling (I tend to have a problem with that!) Thanks!
Tammie
Speaking of Parenting Class...
The article link below describes a week-long experience with an electronic baby. After seven days, the "baby" (nicknamed "Triny") gives you a computer readout and grade on your level of care and responsiveness.
Moment of truth: Am I a good mother?
Here's the follow up article, too:
'I'd like to borrow Triny because...'
As well as the whole detailed 7-day series (it's quite humorous) starting on:
The Baby Diaries
We've been spammed again!!
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