Jesus Dolls Refused by Toys for Tots..........
Moms View Message Board: The Kitchen Table (Debating Board): Jesus Dolls Refused by Toys for Tots..........
I heard on the radio yesterday that a toy manufacturer has offered 5,000 "Jesus Dolls" as a donation to Toys for Tots this year. They are 12'' dolls in the likeness of Jesus, and they quote Scripture verses. However, Toys for Tots has turned them down. The reason is that the dolls may go to a child who isn't Christian, and T for T is afraid of offending someone's religious beliefs. They are especially worried about offending Muslim families.
Toys for Tots is run by the Marine Corps reserve. Every year it gets harder for them to get toy donations and volunteers. The radio story said that the doll donation would have greatly increased the number of toys that they have to give out.
I was listening to it in the car, and I said out loud, "Oh, come on". DH and I were talking about it last night and his comment was, "And this, in America". Then he added, "I guess they are forgetting whose birthday it is".
I don't know how I feel about this. I guess I can understand how a Muslim or Jewish child would feel about receiving a Jesus Doll. However, I grew up in an America that was essentially a Christian country. Isn't Jesus the Creator and Author of us all? It just seems like another attempt to dilute Christmas and take away all religious significance of the celebration. Besides, do Muslim children even celebrate a holiday where toys are given?
I guess we should just start calling Christmas Mas, because we have certainly taken the Christ out of it.
I think this kind of toy is more appropiate for a church-based organization and not an organization such as Toys for Tots which is not affiliated with any religious group, so I can see why they declined the offer. I'd rather see that company offer the dolls to church groups. 
You know, my first thought after reading the story yesterday was, 'Jesus has been made into a doll? Why?' Isn't that kind of sacreligious?' Then I thought to myself, how many kids would actually want this kind of gift? I mean, I don't buy mine or other people's kids religious gifts at Christmas and even those people I know who are devout in their faith usually give "fun" toys at this time of year.
As far as Christmas becoming more secular, I think that has been going on for a long time and will never again be an exculsively religious holiday, but I don't think stories like this diminsh its significance. When Easter becomes commercialized, then you should start to worry.
That is the whole problem now days with society we are so afraid of offending someone's religious beliefs. True Christians, including myself, do not stand up for our beliefs because we don't want to step on anyone elses toes. I read your post to my husband and told him that we are certainly going to have a lot of explaining to do one day for that. But like he said, by the time some explaining is going to be necessary, it will be too late. I think that the Jesus dolls were a great idea. We would not even be celebrating Christmas if it wasn't for Jesus!
If Christmas is becoming more secular, and I agree that it is, it is because we have made it into a "national holiday", with Christmas Sales, Christmas this, Christmas that, about buying and gifts and public celebrations - rather than the religious celebration for Christians that it should be. For me, Christmas is in my church, in my home, and with my family. I cherish that on Christmas Eve one of our pastors always reads the story from Luke (which I still know by heart, from my Lutheran elementary school days). I get teary-eyed at the familiar hymns (and my oldest son, at 45, gets weepy over Silent Night). It is at church that I am reminded, if I need reminding, that Christmas is a celebration for Christians of the birth of Jesus.
I agree with the Toys for Tots people. Because we have made Christmas into a secular holiday, it would be inappropriate to put this very good program at risk for giving inappropriate toys to children who are not Christian. After all, how would you feel if Toys for Tots were handing out Menorahs?
One of the blessings of this nation is that there is no national religion. Yes, most of the first European immigrants to this land were Christians - and they were running from persecution in their homelands that insisted that there was only one way to worship and if you didn't worship that way you were subject not only to religious persecution but also secular persecution.
There is a big, big difference between standing up for one's beliefs, and even evangelizing for one's faith, and attempting to impose one's faith on others.
As for Jesus being the "creator of us all", in my prayer book, one of the phrases used is "Creator, Redeemer, Enspiriter", and it has always been my understanding that Jesus is the Redeemer. The Creator is the God of the Jews and Christians (and, I believe, Moslems), that is, the one God. Christianity, Judaism and Islam are the religions of the book, and are all based on the monotheistic God who first appeared to the Jews.
I will never, never understand why it is "Christian" behavior to attempt to force Christianity on others, either as a faith or through symbols of the faith. This is not, from my reading and what I have been taught, what Jesus would do. The only times that Scripture reports Jesus is being angry is when he was angry with those who purported to be leaders of faith but were, instead, perverting faith.
I also agree with Toys for Tots not selling the dolls.If I were interested in buying a Christian doll,I would most likely look in a Christian store.This would not be a high ticket item for people at Christmas time.Kids want barbie dolls and action figures.Just b/c a store doesn't want to carry something religious doesn't mean it's against religion.They just want to keep everything in perspective for everyone.
I agree we should not "force" Christianity on anyone, but turning down a generous offer just because these dolls quote some scripture? What if some of these children have never had a chance to hear the Word, what if these dolls made a difference in just one childs life? I agree, it would not be a high ticket time, but in the long run, that is not what is important.
We live in a country that is filled with many religions. It would be inappropriate of a secular organization to give out religious dolls. Period. This is not a statement of what faith is correct or more popular, but simply a smart decision made by a wonderful organization that does a lot of great work for children. We should be thankful that they exist and are conscientious enough to be thoughtful of ALL the childrens feelings that they will be helping this year.
Tripletmom, toys for tots is not store. It's a charity that collects donated toys and gives them to kids that are less fortunate.
I think it's hypocritical for them to turn down the donation.
Unfortunaltey at Christmas time,space is everything.This store would need to provide space for these dolls.They want the space for things that are going to sell and make $.I think if they really wanted to make a difference in one childs life they could distribute these dolls somehow for free.My family picks a charity every year at Christmas.Last year we chose to buy presents for a family that was stuck with no money because of a house fire.This year we did Operation Christmas.We made up 6 shoe boxes and filled them with gifts for kids.They will get sent to kids who are less fortunate.I think this toy manufacturer could send these dolls to Salvation armys,women shelters and schools.There are many places where they could give these dolls to make a difference in a childs life.IMO
Breann-Thank-you for clarifying that.We have a Toys"R"Us in Canada.I thought it was an American version of it.
With them being involved in charity,I agree that they should have accepted them.There are many children that could use a bright spot in their lives.
I agree, but I do believe that Toys for Tots do give the toys away, I don't think that they sell them. I could be wrong. But anyway, Toys for Tots is a great organization and does a lot of good for children. I might not agree with their decision, but I will continue to support them. By the way, Operation Christmas is a wonderful thing to be involved in!!
I see why they didn't want to accept them. Definitely more appropriate for a church-based organization. I also agree that this isn't a 'toy' really. I just don't think it's appropriate, and I don't have anything against Jesus. If they can be self-selected by families, maybe, but otherwise I say no.
Hhhmmm..I wonder if a Muslim Foundation had attempted to donate a children's 'toy' based on their 'book' for example(what is it called?) to a charity organization, how many places would be turning it down? LOTS you can bet. Same deal if you ask me. Not appropriate unless it was a Muslim charity organization for Muslim families. Ditto Ginny...about the menorahs. I just saw that! Precisely what I mean! I'm setting up my own scenario...I'm poor, I need Christmas for my family, I'm a Christian believer. My kid comes home with a charity bag of toys and one of them is a menorah or a book about Jewish religion. NOT. I wouldn't have liked it because I'm not Jewish. I would say to my child, "yes this is a symbol of the Jewish religion which some people follow. We however do not, so we're going to give this to someone who does." I know 2 Jewish people who live a million miles from here and the items would end up in the trash. A waste for everyone. Donate the menorahs to a Jewish charity and the Jesus dolls to a Christian one.
I agree that everything has gone secular and I don't like it, but there's little to no religion in my family Christmas either. For us it's simply a time of giving, togetherness, peace, and joy. We help a needy family each year, and make donations throughout the year to the local Salvation Army because we feel that it's helpful to the people who need it. In my former school, I knew many many families who took advantage of their Christmas programs, so therefore I feel strongly about donating there.
Toys for Tots gives toys to under-privileged children, for Christmas presents. I don't think they sell them.
I also agree with toys for tots. They aren't donatating Jesus dolls for kids, they are donating them for advertising (imo). I am the type I might buy a jesus doll (we do have "Bible man"), but I think if a church wants to do that, hand them out in the neighborhood, or at the church, but don't use a national organization to do that. I think it would be considered a slap in the face to non Christians if the only toy they got was a Jesus, not really what jwd in my opinion!
They don't sell them. They give the toys away as gifts to children who might not have a Christmas otherwise. We have Toys R Us here as well.
I mentioned this to my son, who said, first that he thinks Jesus should be an object of reverence, not a toy. And then he said, can you picture an imaginary tea party, with Baby Jesus, Raggedy Ann, Barbie, and Winnie the Pooh?
Just for information, the Moslem holy book is the Koran; for Jews it is the Torah (what Christians call the Pentateuch - the first five books of what Christians call the Old Testament).
As far as Muslims go, I do not think that TFT should worry about offending them- they don't celebrate Christmas anyway as it directly contradicts their religion. The belief of Jesus being the son of God runs directly against the core Muslim belief. The Muslims here in the U.S. pull their children out of school for the class Christmas party. There is likely no way a Muslim child would be in a position to receive a Christmas gift donated by anyone.
My family is a Christian family. The kids have some toys that relate to this. They own a praying teddy bear that says a prayer. However, I agree that it is kind of odd having Jesus turned into a doll in the first place.
Also, most churches know families that could use these dolls. So if they are so gung ho about donating them, let them still do it.
I do not feel it is appropriate for TFT to donate them, however.
Imagine a child's excitement that he/she is getting a Christmas present. They open it up and it is one of these dolls. Now, what if the mother or father refuses to allow religion in their household for any number of reasons, and refuse to let the child keep the gift. How disappointing for them.
I believe toys given out should be toys these children can have fun with. And as much as I love the idea of every child hearing that Jesus loves them, and can save them, I don't think this is appropriate.
Another situation. The child hears nothing ever of Jesus or Christianity. Then he/she hears that Jesus can save them. Then they hear nothing more. What are they to think? What if they take it at face value and wonder what they need to be saved from?
I know these are odd situations, but they are some that could happen. These children have difficult enough lives, we certainly don't want Jesus making it more difficult for them.
Ditto, Sunny. You said it better than I can .
Also, I don't see this as a "generous donation of a toy to less fortunate children" I see this as a direct attempt at conversion/evangelization and I don't think a secular program run by the Marines is the right place for it.
I am a volunteer for Toys for Tots. I help put packages together. All the info you get is the sex and age of the child.
Christmas time has become holiday time. The gifts of Christmas are not the ones we buy or sell or give. They are the acts of kindness and love we show to one another. They are the spiritual gifts we receive ...
The gift giving has little religious significance to me - and Ditto Ginny on the religious/worship aspect of Christmas.
So, in a nutshell, I agree with their decision and think if the toy company were really just being generous there are plenty of faith-based organizations that serve the less fortunate. Rather, this is (1) an attempt at evangelization, (2) a clever marketing ploy.
Ame
Ginny - Regarding the tea party.....I'd say that Raggedy Ann, Barbie and Winnie the Pooh would be in the best Company anybody could have.
I agree that maybe the dolls could be distributed through the Salvation Army (a Christian relief agency), or Operation Blessing that is run by Pat Robertson's organization. However, I don't see it as an attempt at evangelization, but if it were, that is the great commission that Jesus gave all Christians, to go into all the corners of the world and share the Good News of the Gospel.
Deanna, you are so right that, if a Muslim relief agency were to distribute gifts representing their belief system, people would turn it down. However, maybe it has something to do with the fact that we are at war with, and because of Muslim beliefs? Christians don't fly planes into buildings with the purpose of killing others. Come to think of it, how many Muslim relief agencies do you know of? Is one of the tenets of THEIR religion to provide aid and comfort to others?
Maybe we Christians shouldn't be so "wimpy", and as someone else mentioned, not be so afraid of "offending" others. The Muslims aren't worried about "offending" others, as demonstrated by pulling their children out of school during Christmas celebrations. Maybe *we* are offended by that! If Christians today had the zeal of the early disciples, we could turn the world upside down.
And as far as "forcing" one's religion on someone else....is the Muslim religion not dedicated to world domination? Any non-Muslim is the "infidel", and is hated by them. It has been so for hundreds of years. If it weren't for the Crusades, the Muslim religion would have swept through Europe from the Middle East and wiped out Christianity. In essence, we are fighting the same fight again. JMO.
>>"Christians don't fly planes into buildings with the purpose of killing others."<<
Hol - Let's not even TRY to act like Christians don't do some terrible things in the name of their religion. Have you been to an abortion clinic where "Christian" protesters are threatening lives of women,beating them, and condemning them to hell? Hello. Same idea. I was using Muslim as an example, not for any specific reason, just as I used the Jewish faith in the same way.
Muslims (as I'm reading here) pull their children out of school on Christmas. Fine. Christians cannot practice their religion in school or THEY'RE sent home!! Christians cannot be vocal about their religion in school or it's AGAINST THE LAW!! Wimpy-ness in school is dictated by the law which says "separation of church and state". We can't read Christmas stories of the birth of Christ in my old school. Do you think I'm going to lose my job over that? Heck no! I'm not there to preach the gospel, I'm there to teach academics. Do you think we did an angel craft in kindergarten? Nope, because it's not allowed. Same as it's not allowed to celebrate Halloween because some Christians are offended by THAT holiday as well. Unfortunately the Christian religion is defined by laws now.
Ginny-Thanks for clearing up the 'books'. I thought the Muslim book was the Koran but wasn't sure. I also think the whole idea of playing with a Jesus doll is quite funny. I'm quite certain if I had come across a Jesus doll when I was young and my mother had seen me changing his clothes, feeding him tea and cakes, or spanking him (which I did with many of my dolls), she would have dropped to her knees and started praying right then and there!!!LOL
Ditto Deanna.
I think TFT is right in not accepting the donations, because it not only could offend non-Christians, but Christians who see the dolls as sacreligous. I think Ame hit the nail on the head, this is an attempt at advertising, not charity.
I haven't taken the time to read any of the replies yet, so this might have already been answered. I'm just wondering why a child of a faith that doesn't celebrate Christmas would be applying for a Christmas basket in the first place.
Marcia - Ditto!!!
Deanna - I fully acknowledge that there are RADICAL Christians that blow up abortion clinics and intimidate and threaten women who are considering abortion. That, too, is abominable. However, that is not the teaching of the Jesus that I love. Nor were the atrocious acts of hatred toward Afrcan-Americans before the 1960's, or the hate crimes against gays. Radicals in anything can be dangerous.
My point about Islam is just that it preaches death and destruction to any who are not of their belief system. Christianity, on the other hand, AS JESUS TAUGHT IT, is a belief system of kindness, love, compassion, forgiveness, tolerance and inclusion. Muslims hate non-Muslims just BECAUSE they are non-Muslims.
Dr. D. James Kennedy of Coral Ridge Presbyterian Church in Florida (whom I greatly admire), preached a sermon a few Christmases ago called "What if Jesus Had Never Been Born?". With the salvation aspect aside, which is a given, he went on to point out how Christianity has made many parts of the world better places to live. For example: Christian missionaries have brought medical care, education, law and nutrition to the most remote parts of the world. The English system of law, after which ours is designed, is based on Christian principles. The belief that everyone is innocent until proven guilty is Christian. Our Constitution that says "All persons are created equal" is Christian. Do you see the outreach and love to humankind by any other religion? Other religions are about SELF. Taking care of one's self. Christianity reaches out to others. It is a belief system of SERVICE.
I realize that we have gotten off the beam here, but I am just so tired of having to tip toe around everyone. When you come right down to it, and you try hard enough, we could all find SOMETHING to be offended about. Again, JMO.
Hol,
Please don't take this as a personal attack on you, it's a common misconception about Muslims that they are all hate mongers. The Koran doesn't teach hate, it's the Muslim radicals, just like the radicals of any religion or belief system, that teach hatred. Most Muslims are peaceful people... we just hear about the radicals more. Also, the Jewish religion believes in the same God that Christians do, they just do not believe Christ has been born yet. (At least that is my understanding of the religion) Plenty of religions are based on service, "Do unto others" is the foundation of Paganism (An ye no harm, do as thou wilt, or Harm none), just as it is with Christians. Many of the 10 Commandments are practiced by other religions, under different names. Ultimately, there are radicals of every sort, and they are the enemy here, not the religions as a whole.
That, of course, is off topic. I still think that TFT is correct in refusing the donations, they are better made to a religious charity, we're losing sight of the big picture here. TFT needs all the support it can get, and alienating possible donors by accepting such a controversial gift would undermine the effort the Marines make to help underpriviledged children.
I completely agree with Crystal here.
There are plenty of religious organizations that give out Christmas baskets, let them have the Jesus dolls.
However, toys for tots passes out Holiday baskets, not Christmas ones.
I don't tiptoe about my relgion, but I let my actions speak very loud for me. I have had plenty of Christ discussions with plenty of non believers, but never because I shoved it downs someones face. But if I am asked, I will tell you what I believe, why I believe it and what that means to me. Period.
As fas as Mulims taking children out for holiday parties. Again this is rare (my neighborhood is very mixed). But I think of it this way, there are plenty of things the school does that I don't approve of, and as long as I am aware, I too can choose to pull my child, and have (i don't agree that harry potter books are appropriate for 3rd graders). But this really has nothing to do with my religion, but a personal choice. The biggest group of people to have their children out for school parties are "Jehovah's witnesses", well, are they Christian? I think so (but really have no great idea about their beliefs).
As I said earlier this is about advertising, and you know what it is okay to try, and maybe that is what we are called by Christ to do, but you never read about Christ forcing people to take his road.
And yes at the tea party pooh may be in great company, I really wouldn't love my child making light of what I believe.
I just had an image flash in my mind about the tea party.
Wouldn't Jesus love to be in attendance at that party hosted by a thoughtful and loving young girl? And a bear who can teach about friendship and loyalty?
And wouldn't it be interesting to hear about the questions that the young girl might ask Jesus? Maybe she would ask him why some people are so mean, or why the sky is blue, or if he likes hot cocoa on a cold night.
Think back to when you were a little girl, and imagine you had Jesus over for tea. What would you ask him?
Toys for Tots has a message on it's website regarding these dolls.
And, I found this article while searching for the story that, IMO, says it all.
I consider myself a pretty religious person. However, I have to agree with those that said this isn't appropriate for Toys for Tots. You have to keep in mind that this may be the only gift that most of these children will receive. I know my dks would be really disappointed if this was the only present they got. Come on, kids who may only get one gift, are not going to want a talking Jesus doll. I know I wouldn't have. I think that Christmas is about giving...giving a person something that THEY would want, and treasure, not about giving something YOU want to give.
I think it is great that TFT found an appropriate place to give these dolls too.
I have pictures of Jesus, cross necklaces and earrings, praying dolls and bears, Bible story coloring books, and Nativity sets with a baby Jesus in them. But I have a very difficult time with the concept of a Jesus doll that quotes scripture. For me as a Christian these dolls reduce Jesus to the equal of any battery operated toy. Jesus doesn't need his batteries replaced. And Jesus is so much bigger than that. I just would not want one. Maybe I should consider it a Christian educational toy but, frankly, it just gives me the eebies. I also think about what happens to a toy when my kids were tired of it. It winds up at the bottom of the toy box or under the bed or chewed on by the dog. This to me just isn't right.
And it sounds to be like the toy company wasn't trying to be generous or evangelical. It sounded to me like they were just trying to get rid of something that didn't sell.
Maybe I'm wrong but that's between Jesus and me NOT my Jesus doll and me.
And one other thing in this controversy. Why is it that when a Christian expresses his/her beliefs "we are forcing our beliefs on the world"? But when we can't pray at a football game or high school graduation without threat of retaliation, it is trying not to offend anybody. I feel very forced to accept the feelings of a few in these situations. Jesus was a gentleman. He did not force himself on anyone. The Bible says he will knock but will not enter unless invited. There are radicals in any religion. But if a Jew gave me a menorrah at Christmas, I'd say thank you. Jesus WAS a Jew. And if a Muslim who was my friend gave me a gift of his religion, I'd say thank you for giving me something that is close to your heart and important to you. Those things might not mean much to me except that they were symbols of friendship. But I would not be offended.
Oh well, so much for my soapbox today.
Have a blessed day everybody!
http://www.thebostonchannel.com/news/10333960/detail.html
they changed their mind and are accepting them now.
Crystal- No offense taken at all. I started this thread and I knew that it would trigger great discussion and sharing of ideas, which I love and find very interesting. That's how we all learn, by opening our minds and listening to others. I know that I certainly don't have all the answers, and I love to listen to other people. That is the wonderful thing about this board is that we all have affection and mutual respect for one another.
And, yes, I acknowledge that there are good people in every belief system, even in those who don't believe in a Higher Power. I would be touched and grateful for prayers, gifts or good wishes from anyone, of any persuasion, because it is motivated by love. And that, after all is said and done, is what we should all strive for.
Here's a link to a Jesus doll:
http://money.cnn.com/2005/04/12/news/midcaps/jesus_dolls/
Sounds like the one being given to Toys for Tots. Just strange to me. Honey, would you like a Jesus doll or a Spider Man for Christmas? Just weird.
Ditto Imammommy! LOL
Okay, am I the only one? I am finding this doll a bit over the top. I just would never, ever give this to my dd. A child's version of the Bible, yes. I remember my mother reminding me when I was a child that the nativity scene was "not a toy". I was allowed to handle the figures, but gently and respectfully. This has stayed with me, obviously. No scripture quoting Jesus doll under our tree.
I agree completely with Toys for Tots.
Ame, I forgot to mention, I really agreed with your post. And I agree, the season is about the acts of kindness and love, "the spiritual" gifts. I think there are many good ways to teach our children about the love of God. The scripture quoting doll is really sad in my opinion.
I showed the picture to my 5 yo dd and asked if she knew what it was. She said it looks like a doll that's Jesus. I said "want one for Christmas?" She said "Not really, kinda weird, but I would like a pink Bible." Pink Bible I can deal with.
|
Members
