Has Mel Gibson joined the ranks of Tom Cruise and the other nuts?
Moms View Message Board: The Kitchen Table (Debating Board): Has Mel Gibson joined the ranks of Tom Cruise and the other nuts?
Wow. I guess it's only a matter of time before these guys crack...
Mel Gibson Apologizes
I agree Heidi. I am very dissappointed in him. He kind of loses the credibilty that he earned in making "The Passion of the Christ".
I think, after a while, these people can't distinguish acting from reality. They frequently marry someone that they did a romantic role with. Of course, it doesn't last. They also feel that, somehow, the are above the law because their face is on a big screen.
Now, Tom Cruise....there is a real crackpot. I wonder if there is any truth to the rumours that there never was any baby between he and Katie Holmes. (I hate to sound like a tabloid.  )
Well, considering he was intoxicated (not excusing his DUI OR his remarks, whatever they may have been) it's hard to say he's a crackpot. Maybe he just made a bad choice, and in his drunken state decided to spout off. At the very least, I give him credit for apologizing. I'm still quite disappointed that a man of his age would do something as stupid as drink and drive, especially when I'm sure a limo or a chauffer is at his constant disposal.
I'm the oddball here I guess. This man was loaded and being arrested. I know some of the things I've said SOBER, let alone drunk, that I'm not proud of that I said in anger or while I was under the influence. It's no secret that Mel Gibson has battled a drinking problem, and unfortunately because he's a celebrity he's in the news for not just driving drunk but for drunken comments he made.
I don't feel disappointed in Mel Gibson. He got drunk, made a bad decision to drive, and got caught. I don't think he's a nut job or a terrible person. As for the comments he made, I'm surely not the only one who has ever made a discriminatory remark to/about someone. I'm not proud of those moments but they've definitely happened. I'm just not a celebrity for those comments to be posted around the world.
Ditto reds!
I'm with Deanna here and I'm just thankful that he had the grace to apologize without justifications or excuses. If he'd had the nerve to try to explain his comments away, I would be much more upset. As it is now, I think he made a couple of bad choices and handled the consequences responsibly.
Well, is it possible these comments are his true feelings, and while under the influence, his guard was down (way down), and he expressed himself honestly? Of course we can't know this, but it has crossed my mind.
I'll fess up, I've had a change of heart about Mel since his production of The Passion. I lost respect in him after that movie came out. (A debate in itself, I suppose). This last incident just makes me feel less respect for him. Not only did he say some terrible things, he was drinking and driving. He was endangering innocent people, innocent children. I have empathy for him and the problem he has with alcohol. Yet, knowing he has a problem, why is he out driving when drunk? He's a bright man. Like Crystal stated, he has other options than driving himself. Hand over the car keys to someone responsible until he gets a handle on this problem.
I won't be eager to see anymore Mel Gibson movies in the future.
Nicki - That's interesting that you felt that way about him AFTER "The Passion". Can you share WHY you felt that way?
I did feel that the movie went "over the top" as far as blood and gore. We already know that crucifixtion is a gruesome, horriffic way to die. I didn't want the special effects to outweigh the message. I don't think it did, tho. The timing of it's release was perfect, during Lent. It DID attract movie goers, and opened a dialogue about the whole subject. I sat with my pastor (who cried through the whole thing), as he and I escorted the whole confirmation class to see it that year. Afterward, we had an all night "lock in" with the kids, where they could play board games, or do whatever they wanted (within reason, of course ). All they wanted to do was talk about the movie. It was great.
I would love to hear your thoughts, even if you want to start another thread.
I do think Mel Gibson is an anti-Semite. I enjoyed his movies very much, but since he made the Passion, I have not watched any of his films, and will not. I think his statements about Jews, the Holocaust, and his reasons for making that film were very carefully worded and evasive. His father is one who denies the Holocaust, and Gibson has been quoted as saying his father never lied to him - not even about the Holocaust? And his father is part of a group within the Catholic Church that denies the Church's pronouncement that the Jews have no responsibility for the crucifixion of Jesus and still believes in the "blood guilt".
Anyone remember the Latin phrase "in vino veritas". In other words, when you drink too much you lose your inhibitions and tell truths (or what is truth to you) that you would never say when you are sober. For heaven's sake, what on earth does any war have to do with a DUI stop - why would he rave about the Jews being the cause of all wars, and ask one of the officers if the officer was Jewish, if he didn't have those kinds of thoughts/beliefs?
And, by the way, when he was pressed, he took out the words in the Passion that have the Jews taking blame for killing Jesus - but only in the English subtitles, not in the actual Hebrew and/or Aramaic words the actors were saying. And although there is absolutely no biblical basis for it, he had an image of Satan in that scene, from what I've read.
Sorry, ladies, I think he's an anti-Semite. And I am all too aware of the harm that anti-Semitism has done over the centuries - with so-called Christian support or at least indifference.
And I've had personal experience with anti-Semitism. I married a man of German background, and his/our last name "sounds" Jewish - that is, it ends in "stein". Shortly after I married, I was turned down for a job at a major insurance company in Chicago because, I was told, "you're Jewish, and we already have our quota". I protested that I was not Jewish, and was told that even if I wasn't, my name sounded Jewish, and it would just make trouble if they hired me. At various times in their growing up, my sons were harassed for being Jewish. And just this year, my youngest son, a supervisor, was forced to go through a hearing with the HR department of his employer because someone he fired accused him of being Jewish (because of his last name) and having a religious bias against the fired person, who was, she said, a Moslem.
Ditto, Ginny. I so agree.
Hol, I can appreciate that many had a positive reaction to The Passion. I wasn't one of those people. One being for reasons Ginny articulated so well. The other is my low tolerance towards scenes of violence. For me, it was over the top. And I don't feel it was necessary to tell this story with that amount of violence. Many have successfully done so in the past. I don't need to witness a crucifixion to appreciate the pain and utter violence involved. Yet, I believe Mel had to come up with a different angle to attract both ticket sales and stir up some real good controversy. He did both.
I feel he's hypocritical. He talks to others about his faith. But does he practice what he preaches? I don't think so.
I haven't seen Passion, and am not a big Gibson fan to begin with, which is probably why I don't have strong feelings on this. However, Ginny, the "in vino veritas" does strike true... how many of us (at least those who drink) have had the liquid courage to say something we normally wouldn't say?
All I'm thinking is that half the people I know that "talk about their faith" don't visibly practice that. What's new? I just think he's in the limelight so someone cares.
Whether those are his true beliefs or not we can only speculate. No one really knows except those closest to him I would guess. If he is an Anti-Semite, that's terrible, but he obviously doesn't practice that in daily living or he wouldn't be anywhere near where he is today because he would be hated, don't you think? Don't you think we can have our own evil prejudices (no matter what they are) and still get along with people of that affiliation just fine in reality? Just gets me thinking.
My Dad is a nearly 70yr. old man from the south is quite prejudiced against African-Americans. In the company of white folks, I have heard him say terrible things about African-American people. In the company of African-American people, however, he's as pleasant as pie. What does that mean? He has his thoughts and belief system based on how he was raised, but he doesn't let it affect his life. Alcohol affects what you say, do, and think (as stated above) and those "true beliefs" are bound to come out, regardless of who you are or what you're prejudiced against. Unfortunately, MG let it affect his life by what he said in this situation and it may cost him dearly in his career.
I personally don't get not seeing people's movies because of how they are in real life or how they appear to be. Heck, I don't know how all of these actors are in real life. What do I know? Tom Cruise is a weirdo, sure, but I think he's a good actor and I almost always thoroughly enjoy his movies. Ditto on MG. If he came out tomorrow and said "Yes, I'm an anti-semite" I would think "ugh, what a loser" and still be able to respect that I think he's a good actor. JMHO though. I'm also a Republican, and isn't like every Hollywood celebrity a Democrat? So I'm not going to see their movies? I wouldn't see ANY movies if that were the case. JMHO
"A drunk man's words are a sober man's thoughts."
What did he actually say while being arrested?
I remember watching or reading an interview of Mel where it was either stated or inferred that he and his father don't have a great relationship... He wouldn't say anything negative about him, but you could tell he was embarrassed by his father's views. Just because his father believes these things, doesn't mean he does. And by saying his father has never lied to him, just possibly, he was stating that in a way such as, his father has only said things that he believes are true.
I never watched the Passion because I don't think I could emotionally take it. But I have to say, I credit him for making the movie because it got a lot of people's attention, those that may have never even thought of these Events if it weren't for the movie. And it seems like he had a very difficult getting the movie made, didn't he?
Deanna, I totally agree with you about watching movies regardless of the actors in it. That's the reason they make good movies: they are ACTORS. I don't think of them as "Tom Cruise" or "Mel Gibson" or "Nicole Kidman" when I am watching the movie. I think of them as their character they are portraying. And I thoroughly enjoy the movie. Just like I cannot stand Paris Hilton. My husband knows this, and could not believe I listen to her new song and love it. Heck, I can't believe it. But I told him, it's a good song, and I enjoy it. Still don't like her, but love the song...
Just saw on the news that Mel Gibson has checked himself into rehab....
Ditto Adena about believing as his father does. Like I said, I was raised with prejudice and I don't believe that way at all.
Mommmie - I like your quote and it may be true, but don't you think that even if he feels that way, who really cares?
Ditto Nicki
Reds - Oh, I don't care about Mel Gibson. I don't even know what he said, nor do I care enough to look. I assume it must be bad in some way since it's getting so much press. Every time I hear about someone saying something drunk, I think of that quote, so I thought I'd throw it out there.
As to not seeing his movies, it's because every ticket sold to one of his movies and every rental of a DVD or videotape puts some money in his pocket - that's why I personally boycott Mel Gibson movies. It's a personal decision, because I would feel immoral if I contributed to the income of someone I deem an anti-Semite.
As to why it matters when Mel Gibson says it and not when John Smith says it, it is because he is a star, a public figure, and what he says gets a lot of attention - and people pay attention to what he says. And usually when someone famous says or does something that is wrong, or immoral, or evil - some people start thinking its OK because someone famous said or did it. That's what "role model" means and why so many people get upset when a person who is a role model for young people does something wrong and gets away with it.
Ditto, Ginny.
Reds, I understand what you are saying as far as an actor's personal life. They are actors, and they are playing a part, and their personal life is separate. Yet, some choose to use their position as celebrities to get a point across because they are in a good position to do so. At times this can be quite good, especially if they are attempting to gain awareness of someone in need, or a problem that needs fixing. I think it can also be used in a negative way. Like Ginny, I don't choose to support someone who seems to harbor hateful feelings towards a select group of people.
I guess there's more to it than that for me. I am bothered if I hear something disturbing about an actor, especially if it's something about which I feel passionate against. I must admit, I am not really into politics, so I may not be aware or pay attention to others political views. Yet, if I were to learn that a favorite actor of mine was a child abuser, or perhaps a wife beater, well no matter how good an actor, I would no longer choose to see this person perform. I can't seem to separate the integrity of the person from the actor. On the other hand, if I am drawn to an actor due to their acts of goodness or their quality of life, then I tend to enjoy them even more. Not sure this makes any sense. Just my way of thinking.:-)
Simple stated, I feel that if you choose that career, you choose to have a lot more responsibility. Same goes for teaching...if a teacher did that, they'd be fired. It doesn't matter if it's your personal life or not.
"With great power comes great responsibility." (I think I just quoted the first Spiderman movie, but it's so true.)
Annie,
It's kind of up in the air about what he ACTUALLY said, since the police aren't verifying it, at least in reports I read. Apparently, he made some references to all wars being started by Jews, and asked one of the officers if he was a Jew, along with some other derogatory remarks. His apology simply stated he said some horrible things, and did not elaborate on what they were.
Gibson arrest report
>>Nicki - That's interesting that you felt that way about him AFTER "The Passion". Can you share WHY you felt that way?>>
I'm not Nicki but I felt the same way. Passion plays have a long history of inciting anti-semitism. To make that movie Mel Gibson had to, at least, have some degree of insensitivity to that fact.
Yes Heidi, that is from the first Spiderman movie. I agree though, it's true.
I have not read all the responses but i agree that if he said whatever he said while he was drunk, it's probably his actual beliefs. If he did not really feel that way than why would he come up with that when he was drunk and being arrested? He was angry and drunk so he just spewed out all negative things he felt about Jews.
I've never been a big Mel Gibson fan, but this isn't going to make me NOT want to see his films. Just like i can not STAND Tom Cruise anymore, but i still love his movies.
Thanks, Crystal.
I boycott actors/artists. If I see their movie or buy their dvd, that's my money going into their pockets. Which they obviously aren't going hungry without! LOL
I boycott Sheryl Crowe because she wore an anti-president tshirt while she promoted her album on GMA. Regardless of her politics and president, using her dvd promotion as a platform on a morning show infuriated me.
I don't boycott the dixie chicks, because I never bought their dvds before, anyway. Their anti-president comments at their concert was, normal for artists, as a child growing up in the seventies.
I boycott artists/actors when they use a public platform, while promoting their dvds/movies, to voice their political views. There is a time and place for everything. I think the same of Kenya West, making comments about the president during a Katrina Relief drive.
Tom Cruise is just a nut! LOL
I know very little about this MG saga, but...
I do know on at least one occasion, when I had had way too much to drink back in my college days that I said something to somebody that I did not have any idea where it had come from. I thought about the comment later, was embarrassed and analyzed myself for weeks and maybe even now as to why I said it. The comment was never something I'd thought about and didn't feel.
My Father was a policeman for 30 years. This happens every single day everywhere in America. the only reason its in the news is because its Mel Gibson. I honestly do not care what he said. He's human, as I am, and we ALL make mistakes.
Ditto Kim and Debbie!
ditto Kim.
You guys DO know that Hollywood's puppeteers are Jewish, right? This guy's career is going to plummet. So, yes, he is *now* going to be like every other joe schmo out there.
Why do you think that actors have to have publicists and consultants? Their careers depend upon what people think. They *know* this going into the business. Why do you think actors take a shot at being politicians? The demands are quite equivalent.
In a fantasy world, yes, just because they are actors or politicians doesn't mean any special attention should be made. But, in reality, if you verbally abuse the very people who made you rich in the first place (ie, production companies/public) then you're going to get the boot.
It's not ok to get drunk at a workplace holiday party and go into your boss's office and tell him/her that their religion is at fault for all of our worldly problems. Not only is it not ok, it's just not smart.
It's not okay by any means, but it happens.
I guess I just don't care either way...if he's an anti-Semite, I don't care. If he's not, I don't care.
Maybe this public fiasco will be a huge wake-up call to get clean once and for all.
I think what concerns me is the fact these hateful statements were made by someone so well known. Sure, there are a lot of people who express their feelings of prejudice. But these people aren't in the public eye. These people haven't made a movie called The Passion which was viewed by many young adults and teens throughout the country. A very impressionable film. As a society, what are we saying to our young people if we all turn the other way, and say, "Who cares?" What message would we be sending? It's all right to shun an entire group of people? It's all right to generalize? It's all right to spread ignorance and harbor feelings of hate towards Jewish people?
I'm far from perfect, but I keep certain feelings to myself. I would have preferred that Mel kept these feelings to himself, instead of sharing it with the world on one of his drunken binges. We have enough problems with hate and prejudice in our country.
Ditto, Nicki! I once had a neighbor whose husband was Jewish, making her children Jewish. (She was a born again Christian Catholic). She would get SO-O-O ANGRY at anti-Semetic sentiments because she said that the same mindset took hold among a whole country of people, and led to the Holocaust. She said that ANY hatred, manifested in the likes of the "skin heads" or neo-Nazis, could inflame into another full scale genocide. Hatred and bigotry are ALWAYS dangerous.
It is the same whether you are African-American, Native American, or any other. All of these peoples have suffered terrible atrocities because they were deemed "different" or "less than". Even the tiniest spark of bigotry has to be quenched at the source because it has the potential to ignite into a full-blown conflagration.
Remember the poem, (I'll have to find it). It goes something like, "They came for the Jews, and I didn't care because I wasn't Jewish. They came for the Blacks, and I didn't care because I wasn't Black", etc. It finally gets down to, "they came for me, and there was no one left to care".
"The best way for evil to prevail is for good men to do nothing".
I guess, if there is any good that comes out of something like the Mel Gibson fiasco it's this: when someone high profile makes a stupid and hate filled statement, it makes the news. That, then forces everyone who hears it to examine their own heart and feelings toward others.
At the end of the second world war when they cleaned out the concentration camps in Germany, a lutheran minister said "When they came for the Jews, I wasn't jewish, so I did nothing. When they came for the homosexuals, I wasn't homosexual, so I did nothing. When they came for the gypsies, I wasn't a gypsy, so I did nothing. When they came for me, there was no one left to do anything." -
Thanks,Heidi. I knew it had something to do with WWII.
Hol and Heidi, here is one version:
They came for the Communists, and I didn't object - For I wasn't a Communist; They came for the Socialists, and I didn't object - For I wasn't a Socialist;
They came for the labor leaders, and I didn't object - For I wasn't a labor leader;
They came for the Jews, and I didn't object - For I wasn't a Jew;
Then they came for me - And there was no one left to object.
- Martin Niemoller, German Protestant Pastor, 1892-1984
Here is another, slightly different version, provided by Niemoller's widow:
“First they came for the Communists, but I was not a Communist so I did not speak out. Then they came for the Socialists and the Trade Unionists, but I was neither, so I did not speak out. Then they came for the Jews, but I was not a Jew so I did not speak out. And when they came for me, there was no one left to speak out for me.”
I'm glad you referred to this, ladies. It is a guiding light for me, and one of the reasons I so often speak out against what I perceive as injustice, even when the target of the injustice is a group or belief that I dislike or despise. One could substitute any "despised" group for the groups Niemoller listed. And in the end, if we don't speak out, there will be no one left "to speak out for me".
OK, so what if he was black and he had called him the *n* word? Or Irish and called a Mick? Or an Italian a Guinee? Or whatever? Perhaps he would have lashed out no matter what race the person was. Maybe he was •••••• off about something or even just over getting pulled over. We are assuming he targeted the officer simply because he was Jewish when he could have intended to offend the person no matter who they were. KWIM?
My DD had an excellent point today, when we talked about it. She said "Everyone is so upset about what Mel Gibson SAID. NO ONE seems to be upset that he attempted to drive DRUNK!!"
She is absolutely right. Where is MADD (Mothers Against Drunk Drivers) in THEIR protest?
Hol, your daughter has a great point!
Hol, that's probably because if you look at The Smoking Gun (the website that has mugshots of celebs) TONS of celebs get DUIs. It's ridiculous, because like I said before, they have transportation options at their disposal 24/7, but it's become so commonplace that people don't even notice it most of the time. The only reason this DUI was such a big deal to the media is the remarks made during the arrest. You should check the site, you'd be surprised how many actors you NEVER would guess would be so dumb have gotten DUIs!!
How arrogant of them. Just because they make movies, it gives them the right to get behind a wheel and endanger the lives of others??!! NO ONE has that right...I don't care what red carpet they've walked, or how much money they make.
Sorry, but likewise I could have called a cab just as easy when I had too much to drink. I still drove drunk (one time) and it was the stupidest thing I've ever done. Why did I do it? Who knows! I was drunk and therefore had a different impression of myself than I would if I were sober. Drivers or no drivers...calling a cab is easy, too, and free if you're loaded, and *people* (meaning us regular people, not stars) still drive drunk.
I personally think Hol's daughter makes a great point about the drinking and driving. That's the biggest problem here IMO. The comments...come on.
I think the DUI anger is a given...yet another stupid thing, especially since he can afford a limo for pete's sake. It just reaffirms he's an idiot.
I think he just messed up.Nobodys perfect.Hopefully it was a wake up call and he can get this disease under control.Underneath the stardom he's actually just another human being who made some bad choices.I'm sure we've all had some unproud moments in our lifetime.
Mommie,
I couldn't agree more. People use alcohol as an excuse for bad behavior.
I am disappointed. I just hope he gets the help he needs.
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