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What do you guys think of this?

By Vicki on Thursday, June 15, 2006 - 08:29 pm:

I think this is going to be one of those things that I have mixed feelings about. I think I feel one way, but then I feel the other too.

By Pamt on Thursday, June 15, 2006 - 09:12 pm:

Wrong, wrong, wrong in about 100 different ways and I can't believe that we are one of the few, if not only, country who will do this. How embarrassing! Yet again, the American worship of the dollar. But hey---I don't think you should even find out the gender of your child via sonogram either, but I don't think that is wrong.

By Reds9298 on Thursday, June 15, 2006 - 09:26 pm:

Ditto Pam totally. I think it's so wrong. A baby is a baby is a baby. I can't imagine paying half my yearly income (like the Australian couple) for a particular sex of the baby. That's ludicrous IMO, especially when all of that $ would have gone to (pick a word here)help/support/educate/spoil/meet the needs of the children they ALREADY have.

By Kate on Thursday, June 15, 2006 - 09:39 pm:

I don't like the method because it leads to extra, unwanted babies (embryos) and then what do you do with those?? However, I totally understand wanting a particular sex child, and if God had somehow made it that we could choose the sex of our children if we wanted I would have definitely chosen to choose. Is choosing the sex that different than using birth control? You're taking control in that manner, too, to prevent or allow a pregnancy to happen. The centrifuge method of spinning the X and Y sperm apart and then artificially inseminating the preferred sex sperm seems acceptable to me, as it doesn't create a whole bunch of babies that only a few get a chance at life when they are implanted in the womb, and the others get discarded or remain frozen indefinitely. Again, I am against the method in the above link because it creates 'extra' unwanted babies and I think that is totally wrong. But a method that doesn't do that doesn't bother me.

By Karen~admin on Friday, June 16, 2006 - 05:32 am:

Another with mixed feelings on this one, and I also agree, a baby is a baby is a baby. I can sort of see people wanting to do that in some areas - where the population is so high - where they might prefer to have a male child. BUT if they all did that, there would be no female children to balance it out......

I think technology and all of these advances are wonderful, HOWEVER I think there is a point where we go too far......and this just may be it........

By Tarable on Friday, June 16, 2006 - 10:51 am:

The problem I have with this is... If you let everyone choose couldn't there be a problem with the ratio of boys to girls in the future, espeically in a country like China or India where having a son is a VERY important thing. I think it should be left as natural as possible. But that is JMHO.

By Karen~admin on Friday, June 16, 2006 - 11:24 am:

That's exactly what I meant above.

By Tripletmom on Friday, June 16, 2006 - 02:03 pm:

Wrong,Wrong,Wrong- What you get is what you get.Any child is a gift.Whats next picking hair/eye colour???

By Dawnk777 on Friday, June 16, 2006 - 06:01 pm:

Nope, even we if we had the money, we wouldn't have done this. Like others said, it would be messing with the natural balance of things!

By Reds9298 on Friday, June 16, 2006 - 09:02 pm:

I agree Triplet..."any child is a gift" says it all for me. Ditto Dawnk, too!

By Mommmie on Friday, June 16, 2006 - 09:46 pm:

My friend should probably do this. Her and her husband want a boy so bad! She is prego with her 9th girl.

By Kiki on Saturday, June 17, 2006 - 12:00 am:

I will probably upset someone but here goes anyway-

I can understand why a couple would want to choose the sex of their baby if it meant avoiding a gender specific disease/disorder (like hemophilia). I would only do this for that reason only. Like many moms here, a baby is a gift.

I know in China, women have to have permission to have a child and are sometimes forced to have abortions. I recall seeing a documentary where a pregnant women had to have abortion because she was pregnant with twins. It broke my heart.

You don't know why people do the things they do until you have walked in their shoes.

By Cocoabutter on Saturday, June 17, 2006 - 02:23 am:

Talk about playing GOD.

By Vicki on Saturday, June 17, 2006 - 09:55 am:

While I don't totally agree with one side or the other on this one, I don't understand how it is playing god? Just about everything in medicine is going against gods plan isn't it? Medical advances take us in all directions and how can one madical advance of choosing the sex of your baby be playing god if you choose to use it and another such as chemo not be playing god? What about plastic surgery? Is that playing god too? I have just never understood that argument. I couldn't get preggo without insemination. Does that mean I played god and his plan was for me to not have children? Or was his plan for me to go through the pain and suffering of being infertle so that I would appreciate having a child more? How can anyone say one way or the other for sure? While I know that I am not in favor of creating embryos and distroying those that are not of the sex you want, what is so wrong with the centrifuge method that Kaye talked about? Nothing is created and destroyed. Maybe god lead these people to good paying jobs etc so that they could afford to have the baby of their dreams in the sex they wanted. Maybe god is the one that lead these doctors to discover ways to be able to let people choose the sex of their baby?

By Reds9298 on Saturday, June 17, 2006 - 11:55 am:

I agree with both Vicki and Cocoa with the God respect....I also think it's playing God, but I also agree with Vicki that there are lots of ways we "play God" in medicine, so really that's no different. I just disagree with this procedure.

Vicki - Your post is like a huge can of open worms! Very interesting points, but sooooo deep I can't even begin to think about that!

By Kaye on Saturday, June 17, 2006 - 12:53 pm:

I read the article and I think one thing worth noting. Anyone who does invitro, creates babies that ultimately are unwanted. So if you medically think it is wrong for that reason, then you also have to consider invitro wrong. How do I feel? Quite honestly I don't know. I think that I would have chosen to adopt instead of doing medical procedures. But where do you draw the line? What is and what isn't okay? For me creating life outside the body is too much for my brain. But this is a view point from someone who hasn't been there and done that.

Cool story on a friend who did though. She has turner's syndrome, means she has a uterous and no ovaries. She found a donor (a friend actually) this friend donated eggs, her hubby's sperm fertilized them and then they implanted 3 zygotes. She was able to implant and carry one child to term. Very cool. Now they could have chosen whether it was a boy or a girl, but even with that there is just no guarantee that they will take. However, there are still currently 15 frozen fertilized eggs that will have to be destroyed if they aren't used in the next year. They have waited 6 years, so they may or may not be viable.

Vicki...personal question, don't answer if you don't want. Do you still have frozen stuff waiting for implantation? I know there are some people who donate them to other infertile couples. I was curious if they talk about those options prior to the IV process beginning.

By Vicki on Saturday, June 17, 2006 - 01:16 pm:

No, my insemination was just of dh's sperm directly into my uterus. I could not have gotten preg the traditional way as my body creates a thick mucus that basically smothers the little swimmers before they can get that far. LOL I would have had to think long and hard before creating life in a dish and then freezing and implanting and all of that. I don't know that I could have something frozen and not use it.... I would have wanted everything inseminated.... I think. LOL

By Cocoabutter on Saturday, June 17, 2006 - 03:16 pm:

I agree with Kaye and Karen. It's hard to know when we have gone too far as a society and especially in the medical field. And it is a very deep subject. (Always seems to get deeper when God is mentioned, huh? I'll have to remember that. )I have a couple of points to make, tho.

For one thing, God did not put us on this earth for the express purpose of being happy. If I go into any more detail with my opinion regarding this aspect of my faith, it would require a whole other thread.

Secondly, I beleive that medical advances that save lives are worthy causes, such as cancer treatment and so on. But these types of medical advances which include genetic engineering have too much potential for getting out of control. As tripletmom pointed out, what's next- hair and eye color? After that, superior intelligence?

By Vicki on Saturday, June 17, 2006 - 10:44 pm:

Doesn't that already happen? You can go to a sperm bank and go through profiles of donors and pick out features etc of what you would like. I believe that level of education and iq and all of that is listed on the forms too.

By Reds9298 on Saturday, June 17, 2006 - 10:56 pm:

But isn't that the same as picking out a mate? LOL
With your spouse or significant other, you know what they look like, their background, their family history, what the family looks like, who the family weirdos are , education level, etc.

People who do this procedure just seem to me that just having a baby isn't what's going to make them happy. Only a certain KIND of baby (boy or girl) will make them happy, and they are willing to pay mega bucks for that CERTAIN kind of baby. Isn't the creation of a baby enough? I guess that's why I don't get it.

If I had 10 more kids that were all girls I'm sure I would say to myself "Crap...how did I have ALL these kids and ZERO boys? What a crazy way the universe works. Oh well. I guess I wasn't meant to have boys. Maybe I'll spoil my nephews more with footballs and army men." KWIM?

By Hlgmom on Sunday, June 18, 2006 - 09:24 am:

I definetely do not agree with this. For me, it falls in with my whole idea and beleif about pregnancy and childbirth being a natural process. We need to let nature take its course-we will give birth to whatever sex, personality, etc that we were supposed to!
(I do not have an issue with invitro-I can understand the deep desire to have a child of your own...I think it is a very different matter from trying to control "what you get" Invitro moms can still have a very natural process after being fertilized.)
If we continue to be a society that values so highly our own vanity and "needs" we will find ourselves in a very dire state very soon. I do think it is very arrogant to assume that it is ok to want a certain sex over the other and that there should be a procedure to "fix" every little thing we want. Preganacy and childbirth are not medical conditions...you are not sick- so lets leave the doctors out of it!!!!

By Sunny on Sunday, June 18, 2006 - 10:37 am:

I have 5 boys and would have loved to have had a girl. I lost my mother soon after my third child was born and missed the mother/daughter relationship so much that I specifically had another baby in the hopes of having a girl and getting that relationship back. If I had been given this option of being able to insure the next baby was girl, I admit that I would have considered it.

Some of you think it's selfish, well...having children is selfish in itself. No one has children because of altruistic reasons - we are, after all, fulfilling our own needs and desires. I know the desire was so strong in me that I had more than one. How many of us while pregnant hoped for one sex or the other? How many of our husbands hoped for one sex or the other? It's no different. Sure, we welcomed the baby no matter what the sex, but the desire was still there. From the tone of some of these posts, that's not only wrong, but upsetting to the natural balance! Where's the balance in my house? LOL Seriously, I think that most babies will continue to be conceived the old-fashioned way and this procedure will still only be available to a select few. Unless the government gets involved and bans it, and the more furor there is about it, the more likely that is to happen.

By Sunny on Sunday, June 18, 2006 - 10:51 am:

I'd also like to add that there have been unscientific methods, albeit unproven, for choosing the sex of your baby for years. Anyone heard of the Shettles' method? It's not a new concept; it's just now more scientifically based.

By Cocoabutter on Sunday, June 18, 2006 - 09:41 pm:

I do not agree that all people have babies for selfish reasons. Some of us knew from an early age that our purpose on this earth was to procreate. (Again, that is what it says in the bible and that is the reason we are given reproductive systems.) But some of us just *knew* that was what we were going to do. It isn't so much a *choice* or a *desire* as much as it is a *purpose* that we are fulfilling or a call which we are answering. I speak for a friend of mine who had 5 children because, she says, "It was just meant to be."

I also do not agree that we *all* either secretly or openly wish for our babies to be one sex or the other. I had an issue during my pregnancy. A blood test revealed that there was an elevated chance that my child could have been born with either spina bifeda or down syndrome. So do you really think that I spent one second worrying about whether I was carrying a boy or a girl??? Heck NO! I was spending every minute either worrying about the results of the most recent ultrasound or praying for a healthy child.

I do think that spending tens of thousands of dollars to foil with the fate of my child's sex IS selfish beyond reason when there are SO MANY unplanned pregnancies that will result in unwanted children who could be adopted and given a loving home and a decent future.

I also believe that having children to fulfill one's own needs and desires is selfish. Yes, children bring love and warmth to a home and blessings to our lives. But the child's existence on this earth is not expressly to make us happy, and we should not place such a heavy burden on a child's shoulders.

Uh-oh. I got all emotional again. Sorry.

By Sunny on Sunday, June 18, 2006 - 10:26 pm:

I do not agree that all people have babies for selfish reasons. Okay, I'll concede on that one. I think MOST people have kids for selfish reasons.

I also do not agree that we *all* either secretly or openly wish for our babies to be one sex or the other. I never implied ALL parents do, I was just asking the question. Can you remember the moment you found out you were expecting? The sex of the baby didn't enter your thoughts? I know that it did with each of my pregnancies, including the one where I had an elevated AFP blood level and was told that the baby may have a list of defects. I spent 2 months worrying about my unborn child. When the nurse called me with the results of my amnio, my first and only thought was on the health of the baby.

But the child's existence on this earth is not expressly to make us happy, and we should not place such a heavy burden on a child's shoulders. I'm not sure where I implied that because I agree with you.

By Cocoabutter on Monday, June 19, 2006 - 12:20 am:

Sunny, I apologize that my post sounded like it was totally directed at you now that I have reread it. It was and it wasn't. It sounded to me like we were on opposite sides of the fence here, and I was just as much talking to you as I was offering further rebuttal of the OP.

I am glad we agree.

Honestly, when I first found out I was PG the first thing I thought of was what I wanted to name the baby. I wanted my dh and I to agree on both the boy name and the girl name, and we spent the first couple of months working on that. Then I found out about the blood test, and after that I didn't care.

When I talk about the burden that some people place on kids, I am talking about several sets of circumstances. There could be a marriage in trouble and they figure that a baby will help to bring the man and woman closer together. then there is the woman who just wants to experience motherhood to see how many ways it can enrich her life. There could also be a feeling that there is "something missing" such as you described in the bond with your mother. Your hopes that a girl would serve that purpose for you were unhealthy and would have placed an undue burden on the child to provide that for you. You acknowledged that it was selfish. Perhaps it just wasn't meant to be, and surely you have accepted that as well.

When a woman decides to have a baby, it *should* be for the right reasons. It should be about what *she* can give to the *child* spiritually and emotionally and not about what the child will do for her.

Couples who engage in genetic manipulation run the risk of being disappointed if the results aren't just the way they had hoped. In any case where there are preconcieved notions of what the child will look like or how the child will impact the lives of the parents, there is the risk that the child will somehow let them down and then what? How will the child still feel loved?

By Ginny~moderator on Monday, June 19, 2006 - 08:18 am:

I don't approve of gender selection (and I have 3 boys and surely did wish for a daughter).

But, my granddaughter was the result of the 4th in vitro attempt. And, for various reasons, genetic tests were done on the fertilized eggs before any were implanted, because the first 3 implantations didn't work for genetic reasons. My dear dil went through a lot of physical stress and I can't begin to imagine her emotional stress. The day of the family Mothers' Day/birthday celebration two years ago was the day after they had been told that the third in vitro implant had died from genetic causes. This 4th try would, I believe, have been their last, and it was at Easter last year that they told us "they" were pregnant. So at least in this case, I approve of all the testing and sorting that was done.

But, my son told me they decided from the get-go to not know the gender of the child before birth, because they wanted one thing unplanned in the process.

By Ginny~moderator on Monday, June 19, 2006 - 08:20 am:

On this note, there is an article in today's Inquirer about a sting operation in India that caught 100+ doctors on tape agreeing to perform an abortion because the "pregnant woman" was pregnant with a girl and wanted a boy. This is, thank heaven, illegal in India - for all the difference it appears to make. Less than half of the doctors asked refused to do an abortion for that reason.

You all know I am Pro Choice - but not this choice.

By Luvn29 on Tuesday, June 27, 2006 - 05:40 pm:

Here's my problem with this. Yes, some people hope for a certain sex when they find out they are pregnant. Especially if it is the final pregnancy. And they may be a little disappointed if it turns out not to be what they hoped for. But just a little because they never knew for sure, and it's okay.

But if you spend thousands of dollars on determining the sex of the child, and plan for this, and are positive it's going to be a boy or girl, what happens if a mistake was made, and it's not the boy or girl you chose? Can you imagine the disappointment? And if it was that important to you, are you going to have ill feelings towards this child? What's next? Lawsuits because the doctor got it wrong? Can you imagine how the child will feel knowing it was a mistake and meant to be a girl/boy, and that it really wasn't/isn't wanted?

Could be a very sad situation....

By Dawnk777 on Tuesday, June 27, 2006 - 08:16 pm:

Luvn, I never thought of that scenario! With Sarah, she was an active fetus, so I assumed she might be a boy. Also, I had plenty of people assuming, for their own reasons, that the baby might be a boy. When Sarah was born, for one second, I thought, a girl? Then I was over it and life went on! LOL! So, we were all wrong! It didn't really matter either way, though.

I can't imagine spending money and emotional energy and getting excited for one particular sex and then have it be wrong!

By Crystal915 on Wednesday, June 28, 2006 - 01:47 am:

Ehhh, if they have the money, whatever! It doesn't really bother me that people are trying to choose the sex of their child, I personally wouldn't do it, but then again I have a son and a daughter. I don't see any real problem with this, it's a personal choice. As for the "extra" embryos, this often happens with IVF treatments for infertility, and that is acceptable, so what's the difference? I'm sorry, but an embryo at that stage is only a few cells, it's not like you're killing live babies. It mentions the infanticide in some countries, and how this could help avoid that.

By Crystal915 on Wednesday, June 28, 2006 - 01:55 am:

BTW, Pam, why do you disagree with finding the sex of the baby on U/S? Just curious.
Oh, and I wanted to point out to those who say this is "playing God", not everyone believes in God. Is it fair to force your (and that is a collective your, meaning anyone) beliefs and morals on the whole world?