Immigrants schedule boycott on America for May 1
Moms View Message Board: The Kitchen Table (Debating Board): Immigrants schedule boycott on America for May 1
Immigrants schedule boycott on America for tomorrow. They refuse to go to work, send their kids to school, sell their items, or buy anything. They are trying to show just what immigrants do for this country.
I feel this is getting out of control. The problem isn't with the immigrants. We're all "immigrants" in some sense of the word unless you are native american. The issue has and is with the illegal aliens and at what point we do something and how.
Anyhow, just wondered if all of you have heard about this and what you all think of this? I have actually gotten an e-mail already asking that I make all puchases I can tomorrow to try to pick up some of the slack that the immigrants are trying to hit our economy with.
Boycott Article
I'm not going to change my habits for tomorrow. I doubt there is anything I need to buy, right tomorrow, anyway. I need to go to the grocery store today and it has to be today, because my kids need stuff for their lunches and we are almost out of toilet paper! LOL!
Immigrant Boycott on Snopes
They basically say that if the rest of us go shopping, it's really not going to matter much.
Well, i know you'll hate me for this, but as this is a public board and moreover this is the kitchen table i will say it anyway.
I am supporting it, even from the other side of the world, and all of my friends are too in Mexico. "Buy nothing from US companies for a day". Sounds great to me! I am worried about my fellow Mexicans in the US, but i am also worried about all these mega-corporations and the way they manipulate the economy in other countries -in particular in the third world (be these mega-corporations from the US or any other country).
So i would love to see the results of many people refraining from buying from these companies if it is only for a day. Also, all those people -namely illegal, but certainly helping the US economy nonetheless- not going to work in the fields and other types of jobs in the US i believe it's going to make a big difference.
The fact that they are asking US citizens to go out and buy "extra" tomorrow to make up for the boycott won't help the thousands of dollars that farms, and the rest of employers will loose due to the lack of cheap workforce.
(This is off topic, but can someone explain to me the Cuban embargo? Surely they too suffer because no-one in the world can buy their produce otherwise they get sanctioned by the US. Similar but different. I know this belongs to another post and i will be finishing school soon so i will be back! However, i need to inform myself better because it is a topic that i find very interesting and would love to debate it in the Kitchen Table.)
I can't judge whether immigrants (illegal or legal) hurt or help the U.S. economy. Here's an article in the Washington Post that discusses one Washington, D.C. restaurant whose employees are mostly immigrants (and, I suspect, many illegal). http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/04/29/AR2006042901556.html
I maintain that if the U.S. really wanted to crack down on illegal immigration, it would go after the employers. According to an estimate I have heard several times in the past few days, 50% of the construction workers in Florida are illegals, and overall the percentage of illegals in the construction industry ranges from 15% to 25%. You know that they are being paid less than the construction employer would have to pay for non-immigrant labor. This is not the "stoop labor" we think of when we think of illegal workers. And while the employer may be deducting income tax, Medicare and Social Security payments, unemployment comp and workers' comp and forwarding them to the appropriate places, the employer is not likely to be paying health insurance.
I also read an article about the AMC theater chain, which recently took over Leows in DC and maybe some other places. In the theaters they took over in DC, they checked Social Security numbers for all employees and when the numbers didn't match up at SS, they told the employees to bring in an original SS card or contact SS directly - and those employees quickly resigned. Which seems to say that Leows wasn't doing that. The major raid held last week was in a company with sites all around the country that recycles the wooden pallets most merchandise is shipped on. From the articles I read, at least 6 managers/executives were well aware that their employees were illegals, and these executives conspired to move the illegal workers to various facilities around the country. And they paid substandard wages.
But part of the bottom line is that if employers were seriously fined for hiring illegals and were raided frequently enough to discourage hiring illegals (not that the INS has enough funding to conduct many raids anywhere), the cost of what that employer does would go up. Which means houses, restaurant meals, landscaping and lawn care, home health care, clothing (a large portion of clothing made in the U.S. comes out of sweat shops employing illegals), the meat packing industry (including chicken, like Perdue and Tyson), and a whole bunch of other stuff would cost more. Much of the meat packing industry is also staffed by illegals. A lot of businesses wouldn't be able to hire legals for what they pay illegals. And a lot of small businesses would simply have to go out of business, as people made decisions about how much they would or wouldn't pay for services or products that are produced currently by illegals.
Most of the employment of illegals is done by employers who exploit them - pay them less than what they'd have to pay legals, don't provide health care (which means if they are injured or become ill they get tax dollar funded care), and frequently threaten workers who object to the way they are treated with calling the INS on them and having them deported.
We have a big problem in this country, with a lot of businesses being dependant on being able to use illegals - at substandard wages and without benefits - to do the work those businesses require. But, are we willing to pay what it would cost if major sectors of business could no longer employ illegals? For instance, what would you do if the cost of Perdue or Tyson chicken went up to cover the cost of not having illegal workers? Would you pay $25,000 to $50,000 more for a house built only by legal laborers? If the cost of lawn care went up 30% or more, would you pay it or go out and buy a riding lawnmower?
I heard a program on NPR last week, interviewing people working in hardwood floor installation and maintenance. Small businesses who employed family members and friends (legal, U.S. born) are being priced out of the market by businesses employing illegals, who give estimates that are up to 30% less for the same job.
One of the things the boycott will show, if it comes off, is just how much of services in our society are provided by immigrants - mostly Spanish-speaking immigrants.
As for the Cuban embargo, Maria, it is a hangover from the Cold War, and never made any sense, in my opinion. Castro rose to power by heading the Communist Party in Cuba and overthrowing Fulgencio Batista, a dictator (who also rose to power by overthrowing the existing legal government in 1952). Interestingly, when Batista was first head of government in Cuba from 1938 to 1944, it was through a coalition with the Cuban Communist Party, and he left Cuba after he was barred, by the Cuban constitution, from succeeding himself, returning in 1952. My personal opinion is that if the U.S. had really wanted to change the Communist Party rule in Cuba and move Cuba out of a relationship with the USSR, we would have been much wiser to continue to trade with Cuba and make that country financially dependant on the U.S., but again, that was during the Cold War. What keeps the boycott going is mostly the large number of Cuban refugee voters in Florida, a significant political element. It probably isn't going to change until Castro, inevitably, dies.
Well, it will be interesting to see what happens tomorrow here. HALF of our population, major metro area, is Hispanic. There were 500,000 people at the last rally here a couple of weeks ago. It's not just illegals, it's legal Hispanics, too, in support of the illegals (often their relatives). The organizers planned the teen rally for 4:30 though and told those kids to go to school, just don't spend any money.
I see the writing on the wall. I need to learn Spanish. It's becoming a necessity. Not only are the immigrants coming in droves, the ones here are having lots of kids. They don't worry about whether they can afford them or not, they just have them.
As an Anglo I am already in the minority in this state and almost in this city. I hear Spanish during the day almost as much as I hear English. It's so cool to hear bilingual folks go back and forth between the languages depending on who they are talking to. One of the places I eat lunch during the work week has no English speakers on staff (Mexican market) and you have to learn how to say what you want in Spanish if you want to eat there (and we do because it's good and very cheap).
We often use Mexican laborers to do work around the house. It's so much cheaper and they do good work. We have had a couple of undesirable home repair jobs (like crawling under the house to fix something) and tried to find an American company to do it, but they wouldn't. They won't at any cost. They don't want to crawl under our house to fix this or that. A Mexican laborer will do it happily for cheap. We've even given them more than they asked.
I'm in full support of the illegals. I like them. I hope they make them citizens. Our country is constantly evolving. It's ever-changing. Latinos, with their high birth rate and immigrating, will be the majority soon enough in this country. Anglo Americans in their materialistic ways might have caused their own demise by overthinking how many kids can we afford or by choosing not to have any kids at all.
I feel that way about learning Spanish, too. We have so many Hispanic people coming into our clinic, and the poor lady who does a lot of the interpreting is very busy! If some of us learned Spanish, we wouldn't need her so much. I can understand some of it, especially in the context of rooming a patient. But, I'm not conversant in any manner, shape or form! With the eye chart, though, I do know the numbers up to 10 and that's all I need to tell them which line on the chart!
I'm actually very torn on this subject, being the product of an illegal immigrant. This, of course was many years ago. My mother came to the States when she was 16. I am almost thirty. She did learn English, got a job as a nurse assistant, and eventually became a citizen. It took several years. Like close to twenty.
So my thinking is that the root of the problem needs to be fixed. The reasons why people come to this country need to be looked at. If conditions could be improved in their native country, then the need to immigrate would not be so necessary. And does anyone know how long it takes to come here legally? It takes years! Not one or two but close to 10. How many of us would endure the harsh living conditions for 10 years and watch your family starve so that you could go to another country legally? A lot of the illegal immigrants are desperate, so they risk a lot. Yes, coming here illegally is very risky. They are exploited, and some don't make it across alive. Imagine living in fear in a new country where you don't know the language, don't really know anyone, and can't say anything about your working conditions because you'll be sent back.
I know too many of these stories to not feel torn on this issue. I know that something has to be done, I just pray the right thing is done.
I can honestly say, this boycott had absolutely no impact on my life. No place I shop was closed. My kids were not impacted at school. Any services that I use were still open. A local restaurant owned by LEGAL immigrants was interviewed on the radio, when they were asked what they thought of this whole boycott they said that they were offended by it and that it could make people think poorly of all immigrants not just the illegal ones. They also said they were pressured by groups that supported the protest to close and they chose not to because they are proud to be legal citizens. I think this protest was an attempt to blur the line between legal and illegal.
I'm not real sure....BUT there are Mexicans working on putting on my new roof right now, Monday, May 1.
I think there is a HUGE difference between imagrants and illegal aliens and people keep interchanging the two terms. I don't think many people have problems with the people that are here legally and did what they needed to do to become citizens. It is the ILLEGAL ones that most people have issues with. And I am sorry, but I have no respect for people that are here illegally to be doing any demonstrations at all. They have no rights in this country because they are breaking the law just by being here. My opinion, they should send busses to these demonstrations and round up all the illegals and send them back today.
It didn't impact my life today, at all!
I watched an episode of Star Trek The Next Generation where the Enterprise encountered an alien life form drifting in space. It appeared to be dead, but further scans revealed life signs. The creature had died, but was also pregnant. They used a laser beam to do a "C-Section" and the infant life form emerged healthy. But then, it attatched itself to the hull of the Enterprise and began to drain its energy. They found where the colony of these life forms existed, but then they had to get the infant life form off the hull and release it to its colony. It had to happen soon or the Enterprise would run out of energy for life support. So, Mr. LaForge's idea was to "sour the milk." They recalibrated the energy waves that the infant was receiving and broke the bond between the infant and the ship.
So, what the US needs to do is "sour the milk." The illegal immigrants have been "nursing" on us for so long and we cannot support them much longer.
100% agree Vicki.
Wanna hear somethin' funny?
About an hour after I posted above, I was helping my son with homework. He's in the 3rd grade. Every week his class gets a mini-magazine from Time or National Geographic to read and answer multiple choice questions on. This week they got a Time magazine about immigration. I was going over the answers on his homework for it, and I came to a question he got wrong, and I asked him about it.
The question was, "You can tell from the story that immigration: A. is an issue that people have different opinions about. B. is an issue that is easy to resolve. C. is not an issue that needs to be resolved. He marked "B."
When I asked him to check that answer, (not giving him the correct one) he said "C." So I asked him, "You think that this is an issue that doesn't need to be resolved?" He said, "yeah." I said, "Why?" He said, "Cuz it's a free country!" (Ah the innocence of a child.)
So I said to him, "Yes this is a free country, but we have laws. It's a law that everyone who comes into our country needs to ask permission. There is a list of things they need to do before they can live here and do it the right way.
"Let's say for example that the right way to allow someone into our home is through the front door after they have knocked and asked to come in. The wrong way to enter our home is through the window in the back. So let's say that someone knocks on the front door and you let them in. Then at the same time, someone comes in through the window. Now which person do would you want to have stay? Wouldn't it be rude of the person who came in through the window to now ask to be served dinner? What if you asked him to leave and he refused? How would that make you feel?
"This is exactly what the problem is. People have come into this country without our permission and don't want to leave. But there are so many of them that we can't send them all back. It would simply be too hard. Some people think they should just stay, and some people think that they should earn the right to be here by going through the list of things to do the right way."
He said, "sooo, the answer is 'A'?"
I don't think is as easy as it sounds. As i said before, if all these immigrants were given the opportunity to become legal citizens they would. The problem is that the laws that allow people to become legal immigrants are usually more complicated than knocking on someone's front door. So, in order to survive they have to go through the back door.
As i stated in another post, i wonder what all the people that says "send'em back" would do if suddenly there was a crisis in the US, a major crisis that would put a lot of families in the situation that they have to flee their own country. Some would go through the legal process but many others would be left to fight for their own lives in foreign countries where illegal immigrants are not allowed, where you would be classified as a criminal.
And even if you were hard working and wanted to stay in that country to pay taxes and become a full participating citizen, they wouldn't allow you because you are ILLEGAL. There, what would you do?
Do you really think that all those people who haven't gone through the right procedures to become legal is because they don't want to? Do you think they actually prefer to be illegal aliens and not have any kind of security for their families after all they have gone through? Look at Echens mum, it took her TEN years, not a month or two, but TEN years.
The list of things to do, does anyone know what does it entail? What would we do if we had to go through the same list on another country, somewhere where they don't want us, but our only hope for a better life for our families. I hope that no one who says "send'em back" would be in that situation. And as someone, said it before, US citizens were at times illegal immigrants too, so i don't understand this aversion for other immigrants.
When your ancestors went to live in the US, a lot of them too were illegal, and they stayed and things changed for them to become full legal citizens. Why are you denying other people to have a better life? I don't know the statistics, but today's white people of the US are probably the sons and daughters of many of the illegal immigrants of the past: Italians, Polish, Russians, Vietnamese, Jews, etc, etc, etc.
And i stand by my position that the problem does not only lie in the countries where these people are from (namely, third world countries) but in the past foreign policies of the US too, so it's not that poor old uncle Sam has done nothing wrong (but to try to help "the world") and now is suffering gratuitly because all these thieves, abusive aliens are coming to nurse from the fat cows without working for it.
I am sure there is allot more to it than this, but dd is studying immigrants in Social Studies right now and according to her book they have to: live in this country for 5 years, take a test that is written and answered in English and pledge alligence to the US. Now, this chapter deals with life in the 1800-1900's so some of that might be old info. LOL
Again, I will say that our country has lawas and you can't pick and choose which ones you want to follow. You can bet that if I didn't like a law and I choose to break it, I would be dealt with acordingly. They are openly breaking laws and we should look the other way because they had a hard life?? What if I was out of work and stealing was the only way to feed my family? I should be allowed to steal because I am having a hard time? Our laws are part of the reason we do have such a great country. If you start looking the other way when people are breaking them, pretty soon, this country won't be any better than the ones they are coming from.
Well, that is completely off the point, but if you are forced to steal because your own country is not providing you witht he opportunities to live a dignified life where you work, get remunerated and with this remuneration you can have a roof over your head, food at the table, education, chances to prosper, etc, then of course stealing is a sign that something is not working on your country.
From the point of view of these illegal immigrants, they are there becuase in their own countries they have no future. What would you do if you knew you have nothing to offer to your children in your own country. Wouldn't you go somewhere else to try to give them a better life. Maybe we wouldn't say we'd steal food to give to our young ones because we have never experienced a day without food (in fact, isn't the US with the highest rates of obesity in the world, and just to think that in another part, children are dying of hunger every single day).
Of course we would say we would never break the law of another country just because we wanted to stay there, but that is because we have never experienced desperation in our lives, desperation of the prospect of never being able to give a good education, a roof over the heads of our children, dinner so that our little ones won't go to bed hungry, every night of every day, week after week, year after year.
Many of these illegal immigrants would actually prefer to stay in their own countries, because the US is not better (in oh so many ways) it just offers more opportunities. That is of course my own personal opinion.
Why don't they protest their own gov't instead of coming here? Where are the demonstrations in the streets of Mexico and these other countries?
The US is not the only country in the world that has an immigration problem. Even Mexico has problems with immigration with people coming from Central America who believe they'd be better off in Mexico than there.
And the whole point of these protests are about living and staying there, not going back to their countries. So protesting in their own countries would be pointless. There are other types of protests going there, but the point is that millions of these immigrants have been living in the US for a while, working -not stealing- for a living and overall trying to lead a better life. They also provide cheap labour so that the economy of your country can flourish. Do you really think the US economy could survive without cheap labour? I am not so sure.
I think what Colette is saying is why not protest their OWN government and make changes in their country instead of coming here and protest OUR government and the way we do things. Protest the way things are in YOUR country instead of going to another and protesting what you don't think is fair about THEIR country.
I don't know if any realises the way US economic policies affect other countries. For many years now the US has been imposing economic policies in other countries in exchange for money loans (through the world bank for example). With these loans the US government has a say in how the economy should be run, for example by liberalising state laws in relation to big investors from the US, which means a lot of the local economy is lost, giving way to huge mega-corporations to provide cheaper produce (they can sell cheaper produce because they are so big and therefore buy cheaper) and eliminate competition from small producers and companies.
This kind of policy has been going at least since the 1980's and has affected many many third world countries, leaving always the poorest in the wors conditions simply because they cannot compete with these giants, and because these "neo-liberalist" policies are against government intervention for the most disadvataged then there is no safety net for these people who have suffered because of the imposition of these policies in their own countries.
I am not saying that is all the fault of the US, as in many cases the governments of the third world countries in question are just plainly corrupt. But in other cases, the US has forced these countries to adopt their policies (in some case, with less than laudable forms of intervention, i.e Chile).
So there, i think that there is nothing wrong with bit of backlash in the US for all the uninvited intervention it has had in the past of other countries. And of course that is entirely my own opinion.
There are not many changes these people can make happen until the US stops intervening in other countries affairs and stops threatening the economic soberanity of other countries.
These countries are already undeveloped, with low levels of education per capita, with high levels of poverty and disadvantage. There is no need for other countries to prompt governments to introduce neoliberalists policies when there are more basic needs to safeguard than individual liberties and consumer choice.
These powerful countries, if they want ot help, should first provide advice and support on welfare programmes, education, social benefits for a minimum stanrdars of living for people and THEN, they can introduce all the liberalisation policies they want. Can't they see there are people dying in those countries? Why do they want these countries to replace social justice with individual rights and consumer ethics?
This is very puzzling for me, i am still trying to figure it out.
Alberobello, I totally agree with you.
If anyone wants to read more about how the USA screws other countries, read the book Confessions of an Economic Hitman.
Laws are ever-changing. Sometimes when a law is broken it's because it needs to be. Rosa Parks broke the law. You can back yourself into a corner if you have a black and white philosophy about laws. I would steal if my son was hungry, but then again, I'm not afraid to think for myself. And, in turn, I'm teaching my son to be an independent thinker too. Just because something is the law doesn't mean it's right! Laws change. They are not static. When people overwhelming break laws, that's one way to get them changed (the old 55 mph highway speed limit, for example).
The Spanish speaking illegal immigrants are arriving illegally because that's the only way they can do it. It's much easier to immigrate legally from other countries like Germany because there aren't as many of them and they can stay within the quota allowed for that country.
Mommmie, the example of Rosa Parks is very significant. One could not find a better one.
For arguments sake I thought I would look up the requirements to become a Mexican citizen. I got this from a google search. I found it very interesting that they limit immigrants to professional people or others who won't be a drain on their system. That is my beef - all the immigrants who come in and are a drain on our already overtaxed system. There are procedures in place for a reason and if you can't be a contributing asset to the U.S. then we should have the right to say no thank you. Any country should be allowed to limit entrance to that country. Japan has a good economy as does Britain and many countries in Europe. Are they letting immigrants in with no limitations? Why should the U.S. have to take the uneducated unskilled immigrants and then support them for however long? Can we reciprocate by sending all our welfare recipients to Mexico? They would never allow that and we all know that.
Very interesting is the fact that even if they become citizens they don't get to vote!!
"What Are the Immigrant Permits
Immigrant Permits are issued to foreign nationals who have the intention of gaining permanent residency in Mexico. Under immigrant schemes, you are permitted to reside in the country, provided that you fulfil certain criteria (as specified by the type of permit) for a period of up to one year. The permit is renewable annually, for one year, for a further four years. At the end of the five year period, you automatically receive residency status, entitling you to full rights and benefits as any other Mexican Citizen, with the exception of the right to vote.
Upon receiving this status, you will receive a document that looks like a Mexican Passport (called a "FM2") which enables you pass through Mexico's borders as if you were Mexican National. You do not need to surrender your national passport, and you use your own passport when you return to your home country, either for visits, or when returning home to dwell. If you stay outside of Mexico for longer than 2 years, or for 5 years in any 10 year period, you will lose your resident status in Mexico.
Below are the kinds of people who can apply for Immigrant Permits, with a view to taking up permanent residency in Mexico:
Retirees
Investors
Professionals
Scientists & Technicians
Artists and Sportspeople
[TOP]
Retirees
If you are over 50 years of age, and want to engage in "non remunerative activities" and you are receiving funds from abroad (from a pension or other investments or fixed income) at least to the value of 400 times the daily minimum daily wage per month and a further 200 times daily minimum wage per month for each dependent (e.g. spouse, children) then you can apply for a Retiree Immigration Permit. Read more about retirement in Mexico on Mexperience.
[Back to Immigrant List]
Investors
You can receive an immigration permit if you are willing to invest your capital in Mexico. You investment can be directed at industry or services, and must equal a minimum of 40,000 times the minimum daily wage in Mexico City.
[Back to Immigrant List]
Professionals
If you are a qualified professional, you can have your certificates validated by the Mexican Consulate and apply for an immigration permit to live in Mexico. You must be sponsored by a company who must satisfy the authorities that you are essential to their operative requirements.
[Back to Immigrant List]
Scientists & Technicians
If you are involved in science, or are a qualified technician, whether commercially or for education, you can apply for an immigration permit in Mexico. You may need to be invited by one of the established scientific or technical organizations in Mexico.
[Back to Immigrant List]
Artists and Sportspeople
These people can apply for an immigration permit. Each case is considered individually and entry is at the Interior Ministry's discretion.
[Back to Immigrant List]"
I do agree with the article Ginny posted also. This problem won't go away until the businesses using illegal aliens are targeted from using them. This is a cyclical problem to me though. We have put many businesses in a quandry because they can't afford to hire U.S. workers because of minimum wage requirements, worker's comp, unemployment, health insurance, etc. That just circles around to all of our welfare programs that we need all the tax dollars to fund thereby putting pressure on the blue collar worker to need certain minimums to get by and then making it so that businesses can't afford to hire the U.S. worker.
I don't know the answer and now my head hurts (small, sad laugh) but bottom line is that I don't think the illegal aliens should just get an across the board free pass when they haven't followed the proper procedures for immigrant status.
For those of you interested in learning more about US immigration, permanent residency and citizenship...
U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services
Ok send them back but then the US shouldn't interfere in the economic affairs of other countries.
Good point MIchelle, but i think the debate here is about illegal immigrants who have been working in the US probably for years without any kind of security, not just people who one day woke up and thought, "i'd like to go live in the states, let's see how it is". People who emigrate to MExico do so for different motives, and although it appears to be very difficult to become a legal citizen in Mexico, you'll find that there are many US citizens happily living there.
My point is that it should work both ways. Since the NAFTA, these levels of immigration were predicted, but there were no clauses in the agreement that would saveguard immigrants from one country to another (all three countries). Unfortunately for my country, thanks to the NAFTA there has been a lot of unemployment while the big US transnationals have benefitted from the cheap labour Mexico offers and the liberalisation of frontiers to sell their products(which allowed US investment but did not create enough jobs).
I don't think it is fair to compare the immigration policies of both countries without looking at their past economic policies and how they came to be in such a mess.
As for other countries, Spain for example has recently had an amnisty that allowed thousands of illegal immigrants to regularise their documents in order to become legal citizens. Certainly they had to show that they had been living there for at least a year, had been working and had a clean criminal record.
It does happen in other countries too, the US is not the only country that allows immigration to happen.
Maria, most of us don't WANT our country to be involved in the affairs of other countries!
You mention Spain allowing immigrants to become citizens, but was their immigration problem as out of control as ours? If *I*, as an American, decided to go become a citizen anywhere else I'd have a hell of time, and still probably not succeed.
Haven't read any of the latest responses as I have been putting my effort into the Star Spangled Banner thread. But I came across this today and thought I would mention it since it came up in an earlier post.
Local News Looks at the Naturalization Process
Among the requirements:
5 years permanent residency
Fees for residency and for naturalization (up to $400 each application)
Good moral character
Read, write, and speak English
Civics test- history, government, understand and accept the principles of our constitution.
The "Permanent Residency" doesn't mean simply living here. It means they have to become a "Permanent Resident" first (obtain a Green Card), which can be a difficult accomplishment in itself.
Thanks for explaining that, Trina. I was wondering about it.
I'm sorry I haven't read the responses above...
But, my problem is this... I don't mind people coming into my house by knocking on the door. It's the ones who sneak in through the window that I'm more worried about.
Plus, I've known immigrants to live in our country for years and aren't even interested in learning the language. If I moved to Germany, I would make sure I learned the language. It costs our tax dollars to accomodate people who are here illegally.
Not to mention the fact that there are Indian Reservations on the border that harbor these people and the government cannot touch them.
Makes you wonder how easy it is to be an illegal immigrant from the middle east who knows all about bombs, no? How easy would that be?
way to easy.
But if we made them legal they could help us shore up the funding of social security, the military could make its quota and they could take all the low level jobs since No Child Left Behind has everyone else going to college.
Good point Mommmie.
This is a long read but I thought it was very informative.
Claim: E-mail reproduces letter from retired U.S. Border Patrol agent to Senator Bill Frist.
Status: True.
Example: [Collected via e-mail, 2006]
Dear Senator Frist:
There is a huge amount of propaganda and myths circulating about illegal aliens, particularly illegal Mexican, Salvadorian, Guatemalan and Honduran aliens.
1. Illegal aliens generally do NOT want U.S. citizenship. Americans are very vain thinking that everybody in the world wants to be a U.S. citizen. Mexicans, and other nationalities want to remain citizens of their home countries while obtaining the benefits offered by the United States such as employment, medical care, in-state tuition, government subsidized housing and free education for their offspring. Their main attraction is employment and their loyalty usually remains at home. They want benefits earned and subsidized by middle class Americans. What illegal aliens want are benefits of American residence without paying the price.
2. There are no jobs that Americans won't do. Illegal aliens are doing jobs that Americans can't take and still support their families. Illegal aliens take low wage jobs, live dozens in a single residence home, share expenses and send money to their home country. There are no jobs that Americans won't do for a decent wage.
3. Every person who illegally entered this nation left a home. They are NOT homeless and they are NOT Americans. Some left jobs in their home countries. They come to send money to their real home as evidenced by the more than 20 billion dollars sent out of the country each year by illegal aliens. These illegal aliens knowingly and willfully entered this nation in violation of the law and therefore assumed the risk of detection and deportation. Those who brought their alien children assumed the responsibility and risk on behalf of their children.
4. Illegal aliens are NOT critical to the economy. Illegal aliens constitute less than 5% of the workforce. However, they reduce wages and benefits for lawful U.S. residents.
5. This is NOT an immigrant nation. There are 280 million native born Americans. While it is true that this nation was settled and founded by immigrants (legal immigrants), it is also true that there is not a nation on this planet that was not settled by immigrants at one time or another.
6. The United States is welcoming to legal immigrants. Illegal aliens are not immigrants by definition. The U.S. accepts more lawful immigrants every year than the rest of the world combined.
7. There is no such thing as the "Hispanic vote". Hispanics are white, brown, black and every shade in between. Hispanics are Repu blicans, Democrats, Anarchists, Communists, Marxists and Independents. The so-called "Hispanic vote" is a myth. Pandering to illegal aliens to get the Hispanic vote is a dead end.
8. Mexico is NOT a friend of the United States. Since 1848 Mexicans have resented the United States. During World War I Mexico allowed German Spies to operate freely in Mexico to spy on the U.S. During World War II Mexico allowed the Axis powers to spy on the U.S. from Mexico. During the Cold War Mexico allowed spies hostile to the U.S. to operate freely. The attack on the Twin Towers in 2001 was cheered and applauded all across Mexico. Today Mexican school children are taught that the U.S. stole California, Arizona, new Mexico and Texas. If you don't believe it, check out some Mexican textbooks written for their schoolchildren.
9. Although some illegal aliens enter this country for a better life, there are 6 billion people on this planet. At least 1 billion of those live on less than one dollar a day. If wanting a better life is a valid excuse to break the law and sneak into America, then let's allow those one billion to come to America and we'll turn the USA into a Third World nation overnight. Besides, there are 280 million native born Americans who want a better life. I'll bet Bill Gates and Donald Trump want a better life. When will the USA lifeboat be full? Since when is wanting a better life a good reason to trash another nation?
10. There is a labor shortage in this country. This is a lie. There are hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of American housewives, senior citizens, students, unemployed and underemployed who would gladly take jobs at a decent wage.
11. It is racist to want secure borders. What is racist about wanting secure borders and a secure America? What is racist about not wanting people to sneak into America and steal benefits we have set aside for legal aliens, senior citizens, children and other legal residents? What is it about race that entitles people to violate our laws, steal identities, and take the American Dream without paying the price?
For about four decades American politicians have refused to secure our borders and look after the welfare of middle class Americans. These politicians have been of both parties. A huge debt to American society has resulted. This debt will be satisfied and the interest will be high. There has already been riots in the streets by illegal aliens and their supporters. There will be more. You, as a politician, have a choice to offend the illegal aliens who have stolen into this country and demanded the rights afforded to U.S. citizens or to offend those of us who are stakeholders in this country. The interest will be steep either way. There will be civil unrest. There will be a reckoning. Do you have the courage to do what is right for America? Or, will you bow to the wants and needs of those who don't even have the right to remain here?
There will be a reckoning. It will come in November of this year, again in 2008 and yet again in 2010.
We will not allow America to be stolen by third world agitators and thieves.
David J. Stoddard
U.S. Border Patrol (RET)
Hereford, Arizona
Origins: The above-quoted letter to Senator Bill Frist of Tennessee (the Senate Majority Leader) concerning illegal aliens was written by David J. Stoddard of Arizona, who served as a U.S. Border Patrol Agent for 27 years. As far as we know, it was first published on the Internet when Mr. Stoddard posted it to the PHXnews.com web site.
Mr. Stoddard provided testimony about immigration reform to a Congressional subcommittee on Criminal Justice, Drug Policy and Human Resources in 2002, and some of that testimony is echoed in his 2006 letter to Senator Frist:
TESTIMONY OF DAVID J. STODDARD, SUBMITTED TO U.S. SUBCOMMITTEE ON CRIMINAL JUSTICE, DRUG POLICY AND HUMAN RESOURCES, REPRESENTATIVE MARK SOUDER, CHAIRMAN.
February 22, 2002
Sirs:
My name is David J. Stoddard; I am a resident of Cochise County, Arizona. I served my country for 30 years, first as a soldier in the U.S. Army and then as U.S. Border Patrol Agent for 27 years.
I have no personal interest in illegal immigration or in U.S. drug policy except as a patriotic citizen of the United States. I am not being paid or influenced by any entity whatsoever for my testimony submitted to you this day.
There has been a great deal of debate recently over needed changes in U.S. Immigration Law. The United States has the most liberal immigration policies in the entire world. Our laws are designed to protect the American public from criminals, subversives, terrorists, disease, the insane and from those who are likely to become public charges. There are no U.S. laws designed specifically to exclude any deserving person from legally immigrating to the United States. Any person may legally immigrate unless he or she falls within an excludable class. This is for the public good. If existing laws were enforced as intended, there would be no need for new laws.
Currently the United States admits more people as immigrants, refugees and asylum seekers than all the other countries in the world combined. Right now one-fifth of the U.S. population is a foreign born or dependant child of foreign born residents. Since the 2000 Census, the population of the United States has increased by 3 million people according to the U.S. Census Bureau.
According to various Mexican media and official Mexican government sources, the country of Mexico has 18 million of its citizens residing illegally in the United States at this very minute. Mexico claims to have 30 million persons of Mexican descent in the United States. I have no reason not to believe these claims.
According to official U.S. I. & N.S. estimates, Mexicans comprise only 54% of the total number of illegal aliens within the United States. Again, I have no reason to dispute these figures. I hope this gives you some kind of perspective as to the great influence illegal immigration has upon our society.
Since I have lived and worked on the Mexican border all of my life, I am most familiar with the problems presented by illegal Mexican immigration and I would like to focus on that aspect.
- According to former Chief of Police, Ruben Ortega, 80% of the street level drug dealers in Salt Lake City, Utah are illegal Mexican Aliens. I believe we can extrapolate that percentage to any major city in the Southwest.
- According to the U.S. Bureau of Prisons, 24% of those incarcerated in the United States are foreign born, most of them Mexicans.
- According to the California State authorities, that state must build the equivalent of one grammar school a day in order to accommodate the population growth of school aged children, again, largely due to illegal immigrants, most of whom are illegal Mexicans.
I submit to you that Mexico has instituted policies which encourage its citizens to sneak into the United States.
For example:
- Mexico has discontinued the government subsidies for propane, diesel, tortillas, beans, electricity, housing, bread and commodities for poor people.
- Mexico has opened additional consulates in practically every state in the union in order to assist its citizens obtain U.S. benefits, "rights" and to assure legal help in the instances of "discrimination" in employment, law enforcement and in any other legal matter.
- Lawyers retained at the behest of Mexican officials quickly take civil action against any U.S. citizen who chooses to protect himself or his property against illegal Mexicans. This is designed to deter any interference by U.S. residents in the free flow of aliens and drugs across our borders.
- Mexican school children, from the primary grades, are taught that the United States "stole" (from Mexico) the land now called California, Arizona, New Mexico, Texas, Colorado and Utah. Furthermore, these children are taught that were it not for the United States "stealing" California and the gold therein, that Mexico would be a superpower today. I have heard that with my own ears. That is no exaggeration.
- The President of Mexico actively encourages its citizens to illegally emigrate to the U.S. and in fact frequently refers to those who do so as "heroes".
- I can give you the names of eight high-level Mexican politicians who have left office in the last decade with a minimum of $700 million each. These ill-gotten funds could have been used for the good of the Mexican people.
Based on the above facts, I see no reason for any change in U.S. immigration laws. But I see a great need for change in the way Mexico imposes upon the United States. The American people are expected to provide free medical care, housing, education, food and other basic needs to illegal Mexican aliens. These are all services that should be provided to our own elderly, handicapped and poor.
I do see a need to alter the way in which the United States administers its immigration laws however.
Currently the same administrator dictates enforcement and services. Under Doris Meissner, the INS became a service-oriented organization because Ms. Meissner considered all aliens, legal and illegal as her "clients". Enforcement under the U.S. Border Patrol became non-existent except for a narrow corridor along the border. This encouraged illegal aliens to keep trying until they were successful in traversing that corridor beyond which they could live and reside as long as they wish and do whatever they want, while the services branch of INS does everything it can to make their status legal. This status quo has not changed under INS Commissioner James Ziglar.
This is a schizophrenic approach, which does not, never has and never will work. The INS must be separated into two agencies, one to provide services and the other for enforcement purposes. The U.S. Border Patrol must be allowed to do its job in strict accordance to the law without regard to political correctness and without regard to state, city and local boundaries. This is the only way we can remain a sovereign nation. We cannot allow a foreign nation to dictate our immigration policy, which is the current standard. Either an alien has legally entered the United States or he has not. The legal alien is entitled to benefits and services. The others are not.
Every single person who has sneaked into this country made an informed decision to violate the laws of this country and has accepted the risk of detection and deportation. None of them should be allowed to reside in the U.S. without first exiting and making a legal application for entry in order to screen for criminals, the insane, subversives, terrorists and disease.
The U.S. Border Patrol simply cannot handle its mission under present restraints. Its job is to protect the American public and preserve the sanctity of our international borders. That cannot be accomplished while our borders are overrun by aliens of every nationality and while bureaucrats place unreasonable restrictions on how agents operate.
- I urge the immediate deployment of U.S. military troops and equipment on our borders to seal them against those who would cause us harm. This could be only a temporary measure to allow us to regain control to again become a sovereign nation.
- I urge the separation of the U.S. Border Patrol into a separate agency responsible for the detection, interdiction, arrest, prosecution and/or deportation of drug smugglers and illegal aliens. An experienced enforcement officer whose primary purpose is to protect America and American citizens must run this separate agency. That separate agency must have its own budget and control its own spending. This would assure that the law enforcement agency doesn't have to dance like a puppet at the whim of a non-law enforcement entity with an agenda of its own operating the purse strings. A professional law enforcement agency must be in total control of enforcement, (with Attorney General and Congressional oversight, of course), or political special interests will exercise undue influence as has been the case with the Border Patrol for the last 78 years.
I realize I cannot be more specific and detailed due to time restraints, so I respectfully submit this to you at this time.
Sincerely,
David J. Stoddard
Last updated: 3 May 2006
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by Barbara and David P. Mikkelson
Very interesting, especially the weight this email must have to support all your views about illegal immigrants. But it is not entirely true, and he has left out as well, all the past (and present) unwanted intervention of the US in thirdl world countries including Mexico, exclusively for the benefit and advatage of the US.
One fact is definetely wrong. I don't have time to dispute the others but here is the one:
"Today Mexican school children are taught that the U.S. stole California, Arizona, new Mexico and Texas. If you don't believe it, check out some Mexican textbooks written for their schoolchildren".
That is a lie! I always knew it was a Mexican president who sold that territory to the Us for a miserable amount. They do not teach us that in school. That patrol officer has got that fact wrong.
I know this is old now, but I am just having time today to go back and read everything. LOL
Rosa Parks was a citizen of the US who was fighting for her rights as a citizen of this country. I think there is a HUGE difference between that and a illegal alien coming here and protesting our laws. Rights are for those that are citizens, not illegal aliens. IMO, they have NO rights and therefore, not right to protest a thing.
Vicki, how do you think that any one other than a white land owner gained any rights??
They granted Citizenship to "free white persons", meaning free white men in 1795. The Suffrage movement started in 1848 and it took until 1920 for the Government to amend the 19th amendment.. 72 years of "our" laws being protested...
African-American slavery is documented starting way back to 1619. Slavery was not abolished until 1865, when Lincoln pushed for the ratification of the 13 amendment. It took an additional three years (1868) for them to be granted citizenship. Which they weren't actually aloud to do until 1870, by the way. 246 years of bondage and 249 years to be granted citizenship and 301 years to actually be called a citizen. Don't think they weren't screaming and demanding to be heard.. 301 years of our laws being protested. Rosa Parks wouldn't have been a citizen if the African American's before her hadn't fought the good fight to gain their freedom and then gain their right to citizenship.
Heck the civil rights act granting African American's the same freedoms as a white citizen was approved in 1876 and abolished in 1883. They were citizens but not aloud to vote.. In 1957 Eisenhower granted them the right to vote again.. Only because a white senator , Lyndon Baines Johnson pushed for it to go through.. It had been 82 years since the congress had even considered allowing them the right to vote..
BUT most were not aloud to vote because the white men wouldn't allow them near the polling stations. Any person found guilty of obstructing someone’s right to register barely faced the prospect of punishment as a trial by jury in the South meant the accused had to face an all-white jury as only whites could be jury members.
And it took until 1964 for the first African American to have the right to vote thanks to JFK, Martin Luther King and so on.. Sad part they lost their lives for it.. As did Lincoln for that matter.. And hundreds of thousands of black women, men and children at the hands of white men, who were nothing but scared to let them be freed........
But those people, or should I say... We people didn't get our rights because they were handed to us.. We fought... We protested, walked out, stood up and screamed for those rights as the immigrants are attempting to do now and have been doing since 1848 when the Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo was passed 158 years ago...
Those people aren't living in Mexico (and where ever else they came from).. They are living right here, right now. Have been and will be.. Their rights or lack there of doesn't stop our goverment from profiting off of their labor.. There aren't a million standing at the door saying let me in and let me change your laws.. Their are a million that have put their blood sweat and tears into this country too... The food you eat, the clothes you wear, the very house you live in.. They are saying treat me fair.. And we are saying if you were in Mexico then we would swoop in and help but since you are here you are on your own...
Maria, "But it is not entirely true, and he has left out as well, all the past (and present) unwanted intervention of the US in third world countries including Mexico, exclusively for the benefit and advantage of the US." AMEN!!!
And don't feel bad, Many if not Most of our presidencies have had major instances of not doing right by our people too.. Dad says, "To be a congress man, you are either in the pockets of someone or you are the pocket of someone else.. They are all corrupted in the end."
Here it is always about the money....
Too right Bobbie, unfortunately it is always about money...everywhere! that's all we (people) care about.
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