Drinking when kids are home
Moms View Message Board: The Kitchen Table (Debating Board): Drinking when kids are home
I put this here because I can see where it could definitely be debatable, but with New Year's Eve just passed and with a lot of us staying home I was wondering. If you have younger kids, still at home, do you and dh still both drink at the same time? What is your plan in case one of the kids suddenly get sick or have an accident? Do you drink just a couple of drinks or do you drink till you are buzzed or drunk?
I can't drink anymore because of meds I'm on, but the only time hubby and I both drank were when the kids were at my parents for the night. Which has only been a few times. He has drunk a few beers at times, after they have gone to bed, but I don't drink any, so I am able to take care of any situations.
Just wondering if anyone else had thoughts on this...
That's a very good point, Adena, and certainly one I had never thought of. At the time my ex and I were still living together, we didn't have a car so any emergency would mean calling a cab in any case, but I know when Scott has been really sick (as he was recently with bronchitis turning into pneumonia) I have refrained from having a drink in the evening just in case I might wind up with a drive to the ER. I don't have much capacity for liquor anyhow, so half a drink will get me buzzy (an ounce or a bit less of scotch, lots of ice and lots of water in a standard water glass is my drink).
I suspect you have given a lot of moms something important to think about.
I've thought about it. I don't really understand the whole drinking thing anyway. I mean I get that some people like the taste or the relaxation that comes from 1-2 drinks, but I don't comprehend at all why any adult out of college and with responsibilities would drink to get drunk anyway. I honestly don't get it, but I know it happens because I have friends who become like 16 y/o's when on vacation or at a party. It's a weird metamorphosis to watch. DH and I don't drink because we don't like it, can't afford it (don't know how people can afford to drink at restaurants in particular!), and I have a history of alcoholism on both sides on my family. That's definitely something I don't want to mess with! I do think if both parents are drinkers then there should be a designated parent for the night. In addition to sickness, if there were a fire, a break-in, or all kinds of emergencies then someone needs to be functioning mentally well enough to be in charge. I've never had a hangover, but I would imagine the day after is pretty bad too if both parents feel ill, can't handle loud noises, etc. and still have to tend to kids---esp. infants, toddlers, or preschoolers who require a lot of hands-on care.
Dh and I are not big drinkers. We sometimes drink socially when we get together with friends or family, but it is rarely more then 1 or 2 drinks. We also will occasionally have a glass of wine or beer with dinner. On the rare occasion that dh drinks more then normal, I am always able to drive or deal with our dks. I never drink more then 1 or 2 drinks and I haven't been drunk in a LONG time.
Not an issue for us. I will occasionally have a drink or two but not enough to get buzzed. I can't even remember the last time I got drunk, but it was definitely long before becoming a mother. In the 20 years DH and I have been together I've only seen him drink alcohol a handful of times, and even then only a glass of champagne for a toast at a wedding or social function. His father was an alcoholic so he has always been wary.
Although some people believe it's not wise to drink in front of children at all, I think it's important to model responsible drinking.
Trina- I agree completely about modeling responsible drinking.
Having said that...
Pamt-Most of your post could have been my own! Before my dd was born, I had maybe 3 drinks a year at parties and I've NEVER seen a drink in my husband's hand in the 13 years I've known him. He *totally* doesn't get it, and I've been drunk a handful of times in my whole life. I haven't had an alcoholic drink for probably 3 years now, just personal choice. We don't drink for all the reasons you listed Pam.
It's hard for me to imagine drinking at home with children just because of the way we are about it, but there should always be at least one person who is sober and responsible enough to handle the child. My in-laws are both big drinkers (morning 'til night kind) and they watched dd once. That abruptly ended and now there's no drinking allowed by at least one person when they babysit (which is rarely anyway).
I also wanted to add that IMO, if alcohol is the 'forbidden fruit' in your household, then it's much more appealing to teenagers/kids. Hopefully as our dd gets older, she will see that we don't drink just because we don't want to and not because it's some terrible thing. I hope that we can explain our reasons for not being drinkers so that she can make an informed decision on her own.
Sorry...a little off topic
While I agree with these statements - if alcohol is the 'forbidden fruit' in your household, then it's much more appealing to teenagers/kids and Although some people believe it's not wise to drink in front of children at all, I think it's important to model responsible drinking - it does not necessarily guarantee your child will have a *healthy* respect for alcohol.
My mother and her parents/sibling/aunt, and my X and his extended family were/are heavy drinkers/alcoholics. I was very conscious of that when the kids were all coming up, and tried to teach them about the dangers involved, the addiction issues, etc.
My X drank beer daily, and towards the end of our marriage, drank beer on the way home and scotch once he was home. I rarely drank during our marriage - usually on a holiday or a special occasion. And I was much less inclined to drink since he was doing enough for both of us.
So.....you might say all 4 kids were getting mixed messages right there in the home. The oldest 2 kids had major problems with alcohol, and at a very young age. Of course, I (we) didn't realize it at the time, it was very well hidden, but when it did become apparent, it was too late to brush it off as *experimentation*.
Jeff, being the musician-type, has more of a fascination with drinking that I would like. Jen has watched what it's done to various family members and does not like to drink.
I know families who did not drink the entire time they were raising their kids, had absolutely no alcohol in the house, their kids NEVER saw them take a drink, and the kids snuck around to drink, or one or two out of three/four kids grew up to be a fairly serious *partier*.
So.....is it just a crap shoot? Do kids with alcoholism in the family *really* tend to drink more and at a younger age? Does abstinence really produce more non-drinking kids, or do those kids have more of a curiosity?
I think it can go both ways. I have a bottle of Arbour Mist in my fridge that's been in there a few years. Husband has beer where it can be seen when he decides to drink a couple. We don't hide it from the kids, but we also don't drink it in front of them. I have taught them that moderation is key to anything. But, they have both seen the affects of alcoholism with their uncle, my sister's husband. He has been in and out of rehab over 30 times, and my sister and he have been separated a couple of times. We don't hide it. They know that's why we have never visited them in their home and why, even when she lived here for a year, they were not allowed to go to her home or stay with them alone.
My husband lived with parents who drank in front of them and were very "relaxed" about it. Too much so, in my opinion. Husband, as a teen, and before we became a couple, partied every weekend, even before legal age. Parents knew, but didn't care "as long as he did it responsibly". Yeah. Sure.
I grew up knowing people who drank, and it wasn't forbidden, but my parents didn't drink. I can remember my dad drinking a cold beer one hot summer day a total of three times in my life. I didn't drink any as a teenager, and drank rarely as an adult, and when I did, it was a couple of glasses of wine.
However, my sister, coming from the same home, drank recklessly as a teenager and my parents never had a clue.
So, you get two totally different results from the same home.
I'm not sure what the magic answer is, but I hope we figure out the right combination for my two kids!
I was raised in a home where my mother never, ever drank and my dad would have a beer or two on the weekends while grilling or something. It was no biggie. I never saw him drunk or drinking any hard liquor. However, I can remember going to my grandparents' house and my grandmother telling me to keep my shoes on in the den because my grandfather had come in drunk last night, broken a lamp, and she wasn't sure she had gotten all the pieces with the vacuum. This same grandfather ended up having many years of sobriety when he did and has a AA chapter in my hometown named after him because of all of the people he helped .
I was very involved in the youth group at my Baptist church as a teenager. My parents weren't church-goers, except as occasional Easter-Christmas Methodists. As you may know, Baptists are generally known as teetotalers. So, I began to believe that drinking was bad and people who drank alcohol were "bad people." Even if they didn't get drunk. No one specifically taught me this, but I was exposed to nuances of this school of thought. In high school, drinking wasn't much of a big deal. I hung out with the honor society, student government, Mr. and Miss High School types and none of us drank. Largely it was not "cool" to drink when I was in high school. I never even knew of a party where alcohol was served, although certainly it was going on. That was just a whole different group of kids. However, in 10th grade I did go to Europe on a school trip for a week and that was my one big drinking adventure. I drank a screwdriver in Germany, champagne in France and Switzerland, and some type of mixed drink (hard liquor) in England. I never got drunk and really only drank (1)because I could and (2)to see what the big deal was. I never drank more than 5 sips of a drink total because I thought it tasted so nasty. My best friend and I would drink a sip and say, "Do you have a buzz now?"--another sip---"How about now?" LOL. During the trip I realized I hated the way various types of alcohol tasted (never even tried beer in Germany because the smell alone made me want to puke) and I saw how much fun the drunk people missed out on because they were too wasted to experience it or remember it. My brother and sister were both big drinkers in college for sure and probably in high school too. My brother actually had a couple DUIs in his early 20s, but has radically changed his life. We all came from the same parents. Both siblings are social drinkers, but don't get drunk.
I made it through all of college without drinking and I was even a member of a sorority. I was always a designated driver, but I never had the temptation to drink ever again. When you are the sober one in a crowd of drunks you realize how crazy it is. However, I have radically changed my thoughts about drinking. I no longer think that drinking alcohol is bad. I do think getting drunk is, but not just social drinking. If I lived in Europe I would probably get in the habit of drinking wine with meals, but it would be a challenge because I would have to acquire the taste. Even with my DH being a Baptist minister, we both are fine with people drinking alcohol. (Incidentally, there is nothing about drinking--or dancing-- in The Baptist Faith and Message. It's just a historical connection *rolls eyes*). I do have a problem with anyone under 21 drinking simply because it's illegal.
Drinking was never really was talked about in my family growing up. We do talk with our kids about it. Both grand-dads are social drinkers and we tell our kids that it is okay because they are old enough and they drink responsibly. I don't want my kids growing up thinking drinking=bad. However, we have also explained why we don't drink and why, with alcoholism in the family, drinking can be a slippery slope. I think just about all kids, even kids who don't drink as adults, experiment with alcohol at least once. That's normal curiosity. I just hope that if mine do, it is short-lived and responsible. And it will not be under my roof at all if they are under 21. I think parents who pull the "I'll provide the alcohol because they are going to drink anyway and at least I know that they are here safe and not out driving" line are off their rockers.
Karen- to some extent, I *do* think it's a crap shoot. Each child is going to take everything in such a different way IMO.
DH's parents were very open drinkers, rarely obviously drunk, but drank a lot. They drank in front of their kids, always lots of alcohol in the house, and the kids were not 'forbidden'. It wasn't encouraged, but if they wanted to taste something, his parents let them. At their house, drinking beer is "manly". As a result, neither DH nor his brother drink AT ALL and never did.
My dad is an alcoholic and mom drinks, too. It was pretty 'forbidden' for us. Alcohol was 'bad' and we would get in BIG trouble for getting anywhere near it. As a result of seeing my parents often drunk late at night, I don't drink. My younger sister on the other hand started drinking and partying early. She married into a very 'drinking' family...the kind where there are hard mixed drinks everywhere. She doesn't get drunk, but a daily drink is just the norm for them.
My parents never drank alcohol and as a kid I was never really around it. As an adult I have drank a handful of times never been drunk. Dh was in the army, drank with the guys, probably as a teenager ect... Been drunk a few times. But know neither one of us ever drink now. Luckily, neither one of like it. Dh is also now a drug and alcohol counselor so he feels it goes against his ethics to do so.
My bil is an alcoholic also and I just remember how I always hated being around him. He is so different know that he has been sober for 3 years. But its sad to see the lasting effects on his family. He childrens lives were for ever changed by there fathers actions. Even with that said I don't have a problem with responsible drinking. I don't have a problem with a couple enjoying a beer or two when the children are in bed. I would have a problem with both parents getting drunk or really even one parent. I don't see the need to drink to excess ever. I am glad we don't even have to deal with this.
Well, I was raised in a drinking atmosphere. And when I was young, the legal drinking age in Louisiana was 18. And I was past 18 before I learned that not everyone's household drank like mine. It was quite a shock. My mom's family drank all the time, and rarely did an occasion pass (like holidays, b'days, etc.) when someone didn't get into an argument or something, because they'd all had too much to drink.
I did my fair share of drinking when I was younger, and then started realizing there were some serious problems with my family and their drinking. And it became an embarrassment to me. And they were all in denial about it, naturally.
So - do I think drinking is bad? No, not if done responsibly and in moderation...
Am I very cautious about it? Definitely, and I've seen that it can become an addiction as bad as any drug you can find. I've seen too many people hide behind drinking to cover their emotional pain. It becomes an escape. And I've tried to talk talk talk to my kids to make them see that. I tell them *there is no problem that alcohol won't make worse*.
Pam - "I think parents who pull the "I'll provide the alcohol because they are going to drink anyway and at least I know that they are here safe and not out driving" line are off their rockers." I agree with you 100%!!!!! My X actually was one of those parents - after we were divorced, and the kids were between 18 and 21. I had more arguments with him than you can shake a stick at over that. It was infuriating to me, and I just could NOT understand why he wanted to encourage them to drink! And I had to have that argument with my kids - mainly Jeff - during those years - and of course, he used the *my friends' parents do.....* line on me. Didn't change my mind one bit though.
We'll usually drink at home while the kids are asleep. I don't drink much, but if something happened and we had been drinking I'd simply call a cab, a neighbor, or an ambulance, depending on the situation.
As for the letting minors drink, we let my 18 y/o BIL drink while he was here, but only at the house. My in-laws knew, and since he was living with us for 3 months before going to basic training, he was very respectful of our rules. Honestly, drinking age is a touchy subject. At 18 (17 with parental consent) you are eligible to sign up for the armed forces, but unable to get a beer. I got married to my ex the day before my 19th birthday, but wasn't allowed to have a champagne toast at my own wedding, which *I* paid for, because I was underage. I paid for the champagne! That had me ticked! In countries where alcohol isn't so taboo they have lower drunk driving rates, because people are taught early on to drink responsibly. I would never supply a minor (under 18) child with alcohol, nor let one of my kids' friends drink under 21 in my home, but if I chose to let my kids have a beer in my house at 18 or 19 that's my choice. In TX you can get served at 18 if you are with a parent, I know that because I was a licensed bartender. (Although, the bartender has the right to refuse anyone, and I personally would refuse a minor regardless, only because I have too much to do taking care of legal drinkers to verify parentage and IDs of a minor.) Sorry to take it off on a tangent here, it's just one of those things that peeves me.
I agree with your "tangent" Crystal...completely. Very true.
I guess I should change my first sentence. *If* we're drinking, we do it at home, with the kids in bed. It made it sound like we're getting smashed all the time, when it's honestly rare that we drink at all.
And I have to say that my DH DID have a drink in his hand once...a champagne toast at our wedding.Just for the record.
I drank in high school and college and a little bit after that, but once I was pregnant at age 30, I pretty much quit drinking. Alcohol and being responsible for kids just don't go together. This includes drinking even if the kids aren't around.
On a slightly related topic -
My son's school requires parents to sign a paper that says they will not serve alcohol to minors in their house and they won't leave their teens unattended at home when they travel. Parents throwing parties at home for teens and serving alcohol (based on the "I'd rather they drank at home than driving around" theory) is a problem in upper income families. Police departments are really cracking down.
My parents would have a drink or two in the evening, before supper, when my dad came home from work. I can't remember ever seeing my parents actually intoxicated, though. I know, one night, my dad must have overindulged a little, since he was trying to ask the band leader for a jitterbug and it came out jitterbugger.
Last night, my sisters and I got to stay in a hotel, after visiting our parents. My sister brought some margarita mix and we were drinking it, at the hotel. While we all had more than one, I don't think any of us were really getting drunk. I was maybe just a tad buzzed.
I usually rarely drink! DH may have a beer or two, when we go out to eat, but I usually drink soda, then.
Last night, none of us was going to be driving anywhere. The kids were either swimming, or up in the room watching tv, not really out by us.
Mommmie, I'm intrigued by your post.
"Alcohol and being responsible for kids just don't go together. This includes drinking even if the kids aren't around."
Is this to say that a responsible adult cannot drink once in a while after having children? I find that absurd, there have been plenty of times we have had a sitter, grabbed a few drinks (with a DD) and been perfectly capable of caring for the kids. I'm not trying to sound accusatory, your post just struck me as strange.
I see what you mean about that statement (by Mommmie) Crystal, but for me personally (and I wouldn't say this about anyone else) I don't see myself having another drink for a very long time. I'm not sure why. I had little interest before, and since dd I have NO interest. When DH and I go out, I don't have any drinks now where I might have had one before.
Definitely a responsible adult can drink once in a while after having children, but I just don't want to. I'm always thinking: "Ok, DH and I are at a club somewhere, out dancing, I have a few drinks, and there's an emergency at home. Yes, DH is alcohol-free so there's a totally sober person to get us back home, but I've still had drinks and my dd needs me." It just feels better for me to not have any drinks as a mother. I'm sure that sounds silly and I certainly would not expect anyone else to live by that, it's just me I guess.
I just think drinking is risky on so many levels and it's in my child's best interest if I don't do it.
My aunt put it a good way. She stopped social drinking because she said if she should have a car accident - even it wasn't her fault - and alcohol was found in her system, that's all anyone would remember about her. Not her years of being a good loving wife, mother, teacher and grandmother, but all she would be is a woman who died with booze in her system. It negates everything else.
It's like the Aruba story - Natalie Holloway who was kidnapped. Her parents are trying like heck to not let anyone talk about Natalie drinking. They know if that gets talked about, people will start to think what happened to Natalie is somehow her fault or self-inflicted in an indirect way. It could negate the whole focus of finding her.
What good things come from drinking?
Why take the risk when there is no reward?
Reds, I understand completely how you feel. I told my husband that even if the kids are staying all night with my parents, what if something happens or one of them gets sick and I've been drinking...even if it isn't enough to get drunk, but enough to make me tired, or a little less able to respond quickly?
I guess this comes from the fact that when my daughter gets sick, she typically gets sick quickly, with no warning, at night, and she will throw up over and over all night long. For example, just a few weeks ago, she was perfectly fine and had gone out to eat and shopping with my mother. She called me around 9:30 to tell me she had thrown up, but she was feeling better and wanted to stay. Mother's instinct told me she better come on home, and she did, and sure enough from 10:00 till 1:00 a.m., she was throwing up every half hour. And the next day she was very sick.
If I'd have chosen to drink a couple of drinks since she would be gone, I would have been in big trouble when she came home sick, because I do not do well with even a couple of glasses of wine!
So even though I don't necessarily expect all parents to do this, I know it isn't feasible for me to think I'll be able to handle emergencies that may come up if I've had even only a glass or two.
I know I could handle an emergency with only a couple drinks in my system. Still, I respect each person's right to choose whether to drink or not. Adena, I think you had a better way to word it, less accusing, by saying it isn't something *you* feel comfortable with. Personally, I trust in the ability of the person caring for my child to handle an emergency. In the event that something REALLY serious happened while the kids were sleeping, and I had to consent to medical care or something, I trust in my own ability to think even with a slight buzz, but that's just me. It's rare that both DH and I would be intoxicated at the same time, which I think is the more important thing.
Deanna, I can total respect your POV on that as well. Your DD is younger than my kids, too, which is a factor. I guess for me, since I had to learn early on (having twins) that I CAN'T always be the one, and my kids got used to not ALWAYS having mommy at their beck and call, I would just feel ok with DH caring for them if I couldn't. I'm not saying you can't feel comfortable handing over the reigns to your DH, just that my kids never really went through the "I DON'T WANT DADDY! I WANT MOOOOMMMMMMMYYYYY!" thing a lot of children go through. KWIM?
Yes, I see what you mean Crystal. Natalie has only had a brief spell of the "I want Mommy" when she was very small, and I totally trust DH because he does all the things that I do, but I guess I just feel like it's *our* responsibility and not just one or the other. And like Adena, I don't do well at all with alcohol. It only takes a couple of drinks for me to get weird, so that affects my decision as well.
>>"What good things come from drinking?
Why take the risk when there is no reward?"<<
Mommmie, my DH has always said the exact same thing. I immediately thought of him when I read that. I think those questions really apply (parent or not) when one is planning to have more than their fair share of alcohol in one night.
Ultimately, yes, there should be at least 1 responsible, sober, substance-free adult who can care for the children. I think if that's covered, then everything's covered and drinking is just a personal choice from there.
Since I don't/can't drink now i'll base this off before I was pregnant, lol.
DH and I usually drank together and it was usually with friends. We had a type of buddy system where one person didn't drink "just in case" because i've always been one to think that if I were to drink a bit much, it would be then that my DD got hurt or woke up sick or something.
Drinking isn't and won't be considered a "forbidden fruit" in our house. If we want wine with dinner or DH wants a beer after work that's fine. When Kaitlyn gets older ( a lot older) i'll probably let her have a sip of my wine just to taste it. Alcohol is not a bad thing, it's social/relaxing thing. I'll socially have a few glasses of wine at a gathering or i'll have a glass with dinner if i'm in the mood. If Kaitlyn wants to be involved, she can have sparkling cider in a wine glass until I feel she's at the right age for a glass of wine (my instincts say 18 right now though). I'm not one for hard alcohol more than once or twice a year so that's usually not in the house.
The only people who look at alcohol as something bad are the ones that were exposed to it in a bad light (i.e.- alcoholism). Or at least that seems to be the case for the most part.
We drink socially, and this New Year's was no exception. However, i drink very little maybe a glass of wine or two. My dh would drink more but never so much that he couldn't react if something happens. This New Year's Eve we went to our friends' house. There were six adults, of which four had a few drinks, two of us were completely sober.
I suppose it's a cultural thing. In the UK i've noticed that the level of drinking is very high, whereas in Italy, even though they drink wine in every single meal (and apperitives and after drinks in between meals) alcohol doesn't seem to be such a problem. I think it comes from the fact that Italians see it as a way of life and part of the enjoyment of family times such as mealtimes. In the UK, people drink at the pub, without having any food (apart from some crisps or peanuts!) and that is why they get so drunk.
We drink at home, we have friends that drink at home and even at children's parties there is always a bottle of wine and beer. My dh likes to drink but i have never seen him so drunk that he couldn't react in an emergency. I don't like alcohol very much but will have the occasional glass of red wine. And in all the children's and adult parties (where there are children) there is always more than one sober adult to cope with emergencies.
We don't have a car and all of our friends are responsible enough to take a taxi or have one of them stay sober (and i mean sober, not even having one drink) to drive home.
I agree with Crystal that i trust myself and dh to handle an emergency.
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