What do you think of this?
Moms View Message Board: The Kitchen Table (Debating Board): What do you think of this?
(11/16/05 - EDMOND, OK) - Tasha Henderson got tired of her 14-year-old daughter's poor grades, her chronic lateness to class and her talking back to her teachers, so she decided to teach the girl a lesson.
She made Coretha stand at a busy Oklahoma City intersection Nov. 4 with a cardboard sign that read: "I don't do my homework and I act up in school, so my parents are preparing me for my future. Will work for food."
"This may not work. I'm not a professional," said Henderson, a 34-year-old mother of three. "But I felt I owed it to my child to at least try."
In fact, Henderson has seen a turnaround in her daughter's behavior in the past week and a half. But the punishment prompted letters and calls to talk radio from people either praising the woman or blasting her for publicly humiliating her daughter.
"The parents of that girl need more education than she does if they can't see that the worst scenario in this case is to kill their daughter psychologically," Suzanne Ball said in a letter to The Oklahoman.
Marvin Lyle, 52, said in an interview: "I don't see anything wrong with it. I see the other extreme where parents don't care what the kids do, and at least she wants to help her kid."
Coretha has been getting C's and D's as a freshman at Edmond Memorial High in this well-to-do Oklahoma City suburb. Edmond Memorial is considered one of the top high schools in the state in academics.
While Henderson stood next to her daughter at the intersection, a passing motorist called police with a report of psychological abuse, and an Oklahoma City police officer took a report. Mother and daughter were asked to leave after about an hour, and no citation was issued. But the report was forwarded to the state Department of Human Services.
"There wasn't any criminal act involved that the officer could see that would require any criminal investigation," Master Sgt. Charles Phillips said. "DHS may follow up."
DHS spokesman Doug Doe would not comment on whether an investigation was opened, but suggested such a case would probably not be a high priority.
Tasha Henderson said her daughter's attendance has been perfect and her behavior has been better since the incident.
Coretha, a soft-spoken girl, acknowledged the punishment was humiliating but said it got her attention. "I won't talk back," she said quietly, hanging her head.
She already has been forced by her parents to give up basketball and track because of slipping grades, and said she hopes to improve in school so she can play next year.
Donald Wertlieb, a professor of child development at the Eliot-Pearson Department of Child Development at Tufts University, warned that such punishment could do extreme emotional damage. He said rewarding positive behavior is more effective.
"The trick is to catch them being good," he said. "It sounds like this mother has not had a chance to catch her child being good or is so upset over seeing her be bad, that's where the focus is."
I think it was a good idea. Yes we should catch our kids being good, but sometimes you have to go to extremes. Any punishment could damage your child's psyche, but you can't just let them do whatever when ever. When I read it I saw, she took away extracurricular and when that didn't work, she did this. I am certain that this wasn't her first attempt to get her daughter to make better choices. There just comes a time that you have to say, you are making choices that will affect your future, and to get them to realize that.
I guess it would have been less damaging to let her dd fail 9th grade and have to repeat the whole grade with kids a year younger. Tell me that that is not humiliating at that age.
Kaye - totally agree. I think at a certain age and at some point you have to make them realize what the 'real world' is going to require of them.
Having said that, the only thing I wonder is if this girl has had any problems in the past with grades, mouth, and tardiness. This just didn't happen overnight, you know? Wasn't Mom setting these rules prior to this? Honestly, if Mom's been letting this go on for years then she's really to blame IMO. I don't th ink you can expect kids to start behaving responsibly at 14 if you haven't taught them that previously. It's not fair to the child.
Interesting story!
I live near edmond and everyone is talking about this. I agree with what the Mom did.
I'm sorry. I don't agree. Punishment should teach or be directed to teaching proper behavior - not humilating the child to behave. She will just learn to do whaterver out of fear of humiliation, rather than a real desire to make good choices. You should NEVER humiliate your child. Your child NEEDS to know that NO MATTER WHAT HAPPENS you are his or her rock.
This girl will behave for a little while and then she'll go back to her old ways, because she didn't learn a lesson, but was humiliated.
I agree the parent needed to do something, but the ends do not justify the means in this case.
Oh, the caps are for emphasis (I'm not yelling) I just don't know how to do italics.
Ame
Ditto Ame. I think it's a horrible thing to do to a child.
My sister dropped out of highschool in grade 11. My dad told her that if she wasn't going to school she had to work. He drove her into town and made her find a job. The only thing she could find was a job cleaning the newspaper building. She last for a week. She quickly enrolled in a business college, and has had great jobs since. This was in the 70's.
I know the stories aren't the same, but the lesson is.
Well, I think that since we don't know the family dynamics, it is difficult to accurately judge.
The girl is 14. She's probably in that rebellious stage that most teens go through where mom and dad don't know squat and they think they can take control of their own lives and do what they want without consequence. Maybe she WAS a good student until the hormones hit. Maybe the mom DID try to reward the girl and it didn't work. Then she took away extracurricular stuff. She may have been grounded. She may have lost a host of other priveledges. She may have received lecture after lecture about how she was screwing up her life by refusing to respect her teachers, apply herself, or learn. We don't know all the factors, but if the above apply, I would say that what the mom did was the next logical step.
Punishment should teach
Well, it did. It taught what you get out of life if you don't get an education.
Delphi has said that the days of highly paid unskilled labor are over. Regardless of the position you take with regard to the UAW and Delphi, that it a fact. More and more jobs in the world today are skilled and will require education and/or formal training in some kind of technology. By the time our kids get to that job market, if they don't have an education, they may likely be trying to support a family on little more than minimum wage.
I have told my son that if he is to marry when he grows up, he will have to be able to take care of his wife and 10 kids  like his daddy does. Can he do it if he doesn't know how to add or subract?
I asked him what he wants to do when he is an adult. He said he wants to make video games (the career choice of the year- there have been 3 different ones so far.) Well, I then say, in order to make video games, you have to go to college and learn about computers and programming. That means doing what it takes NOW to get to college later. It is up to us as parents to direct our children to where they need to go in order to achieve their goals.
Your child NEEDS to know that NO MATTER WHAT HAPPENS you are his or her rock.
The mom was by her daughter's side the whole time. Like I said, we don't know all the circumstances, but she may not have been as brutal to her daughter as we are led to believe.
Every time I push my son hard to get him to understand why he needs to apply himself at school, I always tell him how proud I am of him, how smart he really is, and how much I love him and want him to grow up to be a responsible and successful adult. THAT'S called being your child's rock.
I'm glad my kids do their homework without being asked, so that I don't have to even think about putting my kids through something like this. My kids' teachers say they are a pleasure to have in class and if anything they are a little too quiet, but certainly know their stuff.
When I have to work late at the clinic, I come home to homework that is already done.
I think maybe the mom was pretty desperate.
Well, I don't think it was such a terrible thing the mom did. In my opinion, if the girl is willing to act that way, get terrible grades, be late for class and talk back to teachers, she is humilating herself enough. Face it, all the kids and all the teachers in that school knew how she was and how she acted. If she didn't care about what those people thought of her, how humilating would it be to her for what her mom made her do? I really think what happened here is that she now knows mom means business. Moms foot came down hard and it seems to have worked. I do think that it sounds like mom has tried other things such as pulling sports etc and apparently that didn't work, so you go to the next step. I really think in todays world, many parents are so worried about being their childs friend and not hurting their self esteem and all of that that the kids are the ones in control and that is where the problems are coming from. In my book, nothing at all wrong with making sure the kids know who is in charge and that what they say is it.
Desperate or not, her actions are indefensible! The emotional scars will never heal. She has learned to be "good" or be humiliated. She has not learned the value of doing the right thing, she has not learned the pain of natural consequences, but the power of her mother over her.
There are better steps the mom could have taken, including counseling, behavior modification therapy, etc.
When a mom has to punish in such a horribly cruel way, is a failure of parenting, rather than a problem child that is at the bottom of it all.
I find no redeeming quality in this at all. She stayed with her on the side of the road ... big deal. That is NOT being her child's rock in times of trouble. That is being her tormenter.
No, this was just plain wrong.
Marcia's dad did a better thing. He did teach his daughter what awaited her. He showed her natural consequences. Much more effective.
This punishment taught nothing but mom has power and I don't. You bet when this kid's 18, she'll be out of that house. It will be later for mom.
You have a bond of trust with your children. Once that bond is broken, then I don't think it ever really heals.
Ame
I totally agree Ame. There are all kinds of things that could have been done aside from this - detention after school, Saturday detentions, loss of privledges at home, no extracurricular activities, if she does fail then Summer school. At 14 you are an emotional rollercoaster, I think this was just plain cruel and it in no way is going to help their relationship.
I agree with most of the points made above, EXCEPT I don't agree with humiliating your child to teach them something. I think humiliation is NEVER a good choice.
I agree, humiliation - especially public humiliation - is never a good choice. I also agree, this has been building up for some time - what have the parents done previously to try to turn their daughter around?
I guess I just don't see how what she did was any more humilating to her or damaging to her than what she herself was bringing on to herself at school. Like I said, the daughter is the one who was acting like this at school and as I said, I am sure all the teachers and students in her classes were well aware of what she was doing. She was humilating herself everyday at school. I also would find it very hard to believe that the mother did nothing in the past to try to get her dd turned around. Face it, kids don't always listen to their parents. That is the reason there are "boot camps" and all of that for kids to go to.
Now, with that all being said, this isn't something that I would do most likely, but I am not ready to call her a bad or uncaring parent for doing it. Nor am I ready to say that this is something that will ruin the child for life. It isn't like she is a toddler or little child. At some point in time, you need to become responsible for your actions and choices. I also agree that letting her fail and be held back would be much more humilating to her than what happened.
The more I think about this...if the mom couldn't get her to do her homework or follow rules, how in the heck did she ever get her to stand on a street corner with that sign??? And if she can do that, why can't she stand over her shoulder and make SURE she does her homework each night? Sit in on a class? Make her do chores at home? If she was taking away extra-curricular act. and the girl wasn't affected by it, then they weren't important to her anyway. The privilege being removed has to be IMPORTANT to the child.
I agree that sometimes something a little more extreme has to be done to give a wake-up call, but I just think in this particular situation all of this should have been taught already. Rewards, consequences, jobs at home, allowance, savings...so many things. When I was 14 I couldn't have cared less about what getting a job meant or that I would have to support myself one day, you know? It's once you get to college and have crappy jobs that you realize, "okay all this hard work will pay off because I don't want to clean floors all my life".
Deanna, I was just going to post the same question. I HAVE one of "those" kids. I set reules for that child since she was one, same as the others. And she turned out the way she is anyway. My dd would NEVER in a million years go to a corner and hold that sign! I may get her in the van, may get her to the corner. But get her out to hold a sign? Uh-uh. Not happening. She is A LOT bigger than me.
I would also never humiliate my child in such a manner. Normally taking away the priviledges that really matter to her do the trick. And the punishment cannot be too severe either or they will not care. If I told her she was grounded for three months she would talk back anyway asking what else I could take away from her, KWIM?
Yikes! This is my first time at the kitchen table with something like this. I read all the posts and I still am not sure what to think.
I know that mom was desperately needing to do something to get her daughter to do better, but I agree that this may have not been the best way. To mom's credit, she did try other things first, but I think that when one is so desperate to do something to change a child's behavior, one may do something drastic out of desperation and out of emotion. One may not take the time to sit back and think it all through, or to ask someone else, another adult, a counselor at school, etc., for opinions or advice. And how does one ask for help with one's child? One doesn't want to be thought of as a failure. So then, something like this happens.
I, personally, would not do this. I think I would do what was suggested earlier, and have my child get a job. I have already discussed it with my husband and told him that if any of our kids ever decide they want to drop out of school or don't work to their potential, there is a job waiting for them. (They can work with Grandpa as a farm laborer.) I'm sure that a week of that and they would shape up.
I do not believe in public humiliation, period.
Ditto Trina! I think that is the bottom line!
Ditto Trina! I can see absolutely no positive spin to EVER publicly and intentional humilate your own child.
*intentionally humitating*
My secretary took a sick day.
*intentionally humitating*
My secretary took a sick day.
HUMILIATING--yikes!
Now I'm humiliated and will get off of the computer now.
Ditto Ame 2x
Well said Ame!
I agree with Lisa in this, we don't know all the facts or the family dynamics to judge this woman. It may not lead to pshychological damage after all.
I think that the motorist who called the police should be ashamed, hasn't he/she anything better else to do. Honestly, I think people sometimes interfere too much in other people's lives.
I say leave the poor woman alone! I mean this is what she did:
She made Coretha stand at a busy Oklahoma City intersection Nov. 4 with a cardboard sign that read: "I don't do my homework and I act up in school, so my parents are preparing me for my future. Will work for food."
She did not actually send her to work in a brothel or something like that. I think we are becoming too judgemental and way too moralists: "'The parents of that girl need more education than she does if they can't see that the worst scenario in this case is to kill their daughter psychologically,' Suzanne Ball said in a letter to The Oklahoman"
I mean come on! My opinion is that there are worse things in life. At least that girl had a caring family, even if by the moral standards of some is not the right sort of caring.
While I don't think that humiliation is the best way to handle discipline problems, I think it would have been far worse if she'd had a mother, like so many children, that didn't care at all if her child was doing well in school and was growing up to be a productive member of society. If her mother had already attempted "typical" discipline strategies, and we don't know that one way or another, but it sounds like she had by taking away extra curricular activities, then this seems to be a "wake-up call" to the daughter that she's too old to be acting this way and she can't expect the world to put up with her attitude and poor work habits. If she isn't willing to do the work required by a school, how is she going to survive in a career where she will have more expectations put on her that she has now? By 14 years old, I think it is fair to expect a child to do their homework, get along with their schoolmates and respect her teachers. If that were translated to a real world environment, she'd be fired and may find herself in the exact situation her mother has orchestrated. Better to learn a lesson now, with her mother's protection and guidance, than when she's an adult and may have others depending on her. I certainly don't think it's a matter for the police to look into and, at most, I would consider it a matter for the school administration to work together with the mother on.
I don't think this girl was humilated. She has done far worse in school and could care less. She obviously does not care how she looks or comes across to people. I think the punishement here for her was more how people responded to her. I am guessing the mom got her out there to do it because it was not that big of a deal to the girl at the time. I think the mom was creative.
That is the point I was trying to make too Beth. I also don't think that she was all that "humiliated" by it. If she cared much at all about what people thought of her, she wouldn't have acted the way she did at school. Kids who care what people think, don't talk back to teachers.
I think that it finally hit her that her mom means business and she is going to do what ever it takes to get her dd on the right path.
My kids don't talk back to teachers. Their teachers all think they are a pleasure to have in class.
ROFL Pam!!!
I don't think the purpose of having her stand in a street was to humiliate her. I think the purpose was to establish that her actions have consequences in a bigger picture of what is to come in her future should she have continued on that path. Her mom was saying "This is what life may be like without an education."
I prefer to give the mom the benefit of the doubt, while some would rather assume that the mom is heartless and is guilty of cruel phsychological abuse.
I agree with Tink and the others who agree with what the mother did. The girl obviously didn't care what others thought of her and didn't care about school or other people. Humiliatiing a child publicly is usually not a good idea by any means, but this girl does not sound like one to get humiliated easily. We obviously do not have all the details here.
The mother was creative and perhaps succeeded in giving her dd a wake up call! Good for her! I hope it really worked. Teenagers are HARD!
The problem with this punishment is
a)It teaches the girl no lessons she can carry with her. She's got no foundation for making better choices about school in the future, just a threat hanging over her head.
b)It may be creative but it's not thoughtful. It was a "How can I make her do I want," kind of action not, "How can I help her do better," one. The latter takes a lot more work but generally leaves a kid with their dignity and trust intact. By comparison, putting magic marker to cardboard is easy...And lazy.
c)She's not a safe person for her daughter to turn to anymore, if she was before this. She choose a petty way to address the situation that hurt her kid. If there are some basic guidelines about what we should never do to our kids, break their trust by humiliating them should be the first.
d)It didn't find out what the problem was. Was her daughter acting out because she felt bad about herself, was depressed, found home or school stressful, had friends that were leading her wrong? Who knows? This was all about getting the behaviour the mom wanted and nothing more. A good way to show a profound uncaring for what might be going on in her daughter's life past what other people can see.
I just can't imagine anyone here thinking it would be okay if their boss or husband put a sign around their neck that said "Comes to work late," or "Horrible cook," and marched them out onto the sidewalk for everyone to see. Why it's okay for a child, for a teenager esp. who already going through so much turmoil and trying to sort things out, is beyond me.
I'm betting the daughter will never forget what that punishment taught her but that the lesson is nothing at all like what the mother had in mind.
Well said!
Thank you, Dawn. You expressed very well what I had been feeling about this matter, but couldn't find the ideas or words to express. I'm with you.
Ok People, what's the 'natural consequence' for talking back???
I'll bet you can't think of one.
Wow, many people here sure put allot into the story that isn't there. You have no idea what all the mom has tried in he past. Really, you have no idea what type of relationship they have at all. And as far as natural consequences, have any of you left your kids go to school with out their homework or music instruments or anything else for that matter? Thinking that you are tired of being the one who is responsible for it and let them suffer the natural consequence? You don't think it is embarrasing and humilating to be the only one in the class to not have your homework or music instrument??? Is there a certain level of embarrasment and humilation that your ok with?
As far as this:
I just can't imagine anyone here thinking it would be okay if their boss or husband put a sign around their neck that said "Comes to work late," or "Horrible cook," and marched them out onto the sidewalk for everyone to see.
No, it wouldn't be ok for that to happen. But it also wouldn't be ok for my dh's boss to put him in time out or ground him or any of the other million things we do to our kids to teach lessons and values. BIG difference.
I am not even saying that I agree with what this woman did, but I would rather have her do something (that by the way seems to have worked) than do nothing at all and have this girl become what so many kids today are becoming. I also don't think it is fair at all to be judging this woman or their relationship without knowing the entire story.
Well, Vicki, when it comes to knowing the whole story, it appears it worked - short term - at least as far as we know, and, as you point out, we don't know the whole story.
If one had to know the whole story before having an opinion about someone's actions, we'd never be allowed to have any opinions.
All I know about the story is what is posted in this thread - and that I would never, never, never publicly humiliate my teenage child or anyone else's teenage child.
As for what level of embarassment or humiliation I am OK with - when a child shows up without homework or instrument or whatever and it is because the child forgot, then I'm OK with it. That is very, very different, however, from standing your child on a corner with a sign around her neck, and then allowing news reporters to take pictures of it. A
nd, I suspect that the mom knew darned well that sooner or later the media would be there, since she was standing her daughter on a public corner. There have been enough sensationalist stories about moms going on strike and similar events in recent months. The mom chose to deliberately and publicly humiliate her daughter. What else had she tried - I don't know. Frankly, I don't care. I think what she did was wrong, for the reasons Dawn set forth so eloquently above. Whether I know the whole story or not, I think she was wrong.
And, I would be very surprised if that child continues to do well (as she is reported to be doing right now) in a school where most of her classmates will be mocking and harassing her about this event. Which a 34 year old woman should know will be another "natural consequence" of what this mother chose to do.
I agree with lots of the points made here, on both sides. One major consideration here I believe (as someone else pointed out) is that we don't know what all the mother has tried to this point. I can't really see how this whole scenario that the mother created on the street corner is really going to "teach" the girl to do better in school. It might shock her for a while to do better, but will it really do anything in the long run? Hard "natural" lessons come from something extreme like flunking out of high school, but are we really (as mothers) going to let our children do that?
Again, there's surely A LOT more to the story than we know, but IMO it really comes down to what this child has been taught from day one on this earth about responsibility, aspirations, goals, and self-worth.
I agree with Jacqueline that there aren't "natural consequences" for everything by any means.
I'm just asking myself if I would do this to my child and I can definitely say no way.
I don't see how you can say that you would never allow for public humilation in one sentence, then say that it is ok to allow them to be humilated because they forgot something. If you know that they are forgetting it and don't remind them, you are allowing it.
Again, I am not saying that I feel what she did is right for me. Would I ever do it... I can't say. If I felt my dd was going down the wrong road and I tried everything I could think of to help her and she was rejecting it, I might be desperate enough to try something that might not be popular with allot of people. I can say that I would try what ever it took to get her turned around.
And I will state again that if this girl cared one bit about what her classmates thought about her or said about her, she wouldn't have acted the way towards her teachers and the school rules as she did in the past. I can say with almost 100% certainty that she was talked about in the past as well. You never know, if she has turned her ways around, she might even have more friends now.
It is stories like this that I wish there was follow up to!!
Looking back over the posts....
Ame mentioned "punishment should teach" and Cocoabutter responded with "It did. It taught what you get out of life if you don't get an education."
I disagree. It didn't teach her that she will be hungry and poor because she's not really hungry and poor. She's not experiencing those things herself. She just put on a skit basically - a little show of what she might LOOK like if she doesn't get an education. My guess is the child is still eating, sleeping, bathing, and being clothed by her family. She's not *experiencing* poverty. And honestly, the girl could get a decent job managing McDonald's without an education, you know? Is that desirable for her? I don't know. When she can get a work permit, put her to work a few hours a week flipping burgers and see if this is what she wants to do for the rest of her life.
Just a thought.
I agree with the mom. She showed her daughter the flat out truth.
The daughter learned a valuable lesson that she will probably pass on to her own kids, grandkids, and so on.
Is it not public humiliation if you are HELD BACK in school? Of course it is. Everyone will know about it.
This was an excellent display of creative parenting that I'm sure has taught a lifetime lesson.
Vicki, there is a really major qualitative difference between allowing a child to learn from his/her mistakes by "allowing" (your word) them to forget something or fail to do homework - and setting up a scene in a public place. Not an "oops" or even a "go to the principal's office" at school. On a public street, in front of strangers, and in the media - it's a big difference.
And, what people do to themselves is one thing - what you do (actively do) to them is quite another.
I'm sure it has taught this girl and her siblings a life-long lesson - as Dawn said, they know they can't trust their mother.
Ginny, can I ask, do you have more information than was posted above? That might make a difference to me. You have said things like:
then allowing news reporters to take pictures of it
and in the media
I have not read either of those ideas. What I got from the story is that some motorists saw what happened and called a "talk radio" show. I am only assuming that is where the "media" heard the story from. Which, I have not heard about this yet on my local or national news at night, so I again am assuming that his story came from a local paper.
As I said, if there is more information out there I would love to read it. Might make a difference to me.
Media is newspapers, radio, whatever. The mom obviously did this in a very public place, and obviously talked to at least one reporter. The photo is in the Desert News: http://deseretnews.com/dn/view/0,1249,635161825,00.html
From what I am getting on the internet, mother and daughter posed for this photo outside their home. So I guess the daughter wasn't all that humiliated or embarassed.
I wonder if anyone will follow up on this story and see what the girl is doing in a month or two.
If you want to find more, just type Coretha Henderson into Google - you'll get at least 12 pages or more of links.
There was an article in my local paper about it, the other day. Just a small piece and on the back page, but it was there. I live in WI.
Link to AP news story
It was an AP news story, so any newspaper in the country could have picked it up and put it in their newspaper. This article has the picture in it.
Well, I did a quick search and I can't seem to find anything other than what was posted above.
I agree that if she was all that humilated and damaged by the act, she wouldn't have posed for the picture for the paper!
I hope they do a follow up, as I would love to know how she turns out.
Breann, the difference between the humiliation of failing school and what that mom did is that one you do to yourslf and one you have done to you by someone who should be your most trusted ally.
I just can't get over how school performance should become so important that a parent would undermine their relationship with their child. We're not there to please the teachers or to get out children to bend to our will at all costs (hopefully). We're their to be the foundation they build themselves on and if we label them failures what do you think they'll label themselves?
Great point Unschoolmom in your first statement. Well said.
But...if the child fails school that *is* a failure. That's a label put on themselves. I agree that we're not here to please the teachers, but we are here to follow rules set forth in society to maintain order and create an environment conducive to learning for ALL students. Just like there are rules of the road for ALL drivers, and basic courtesies for the benefit of ALL people,etc. Keep in mind, I still disagree with what this mother did.
Studies have shown that humiliation does nothing positive for children.
Adults on the otherhand....GO FOR IT!
I really hope this girl is never in serious trouble. She certainly won't go to her mom for help if she is. I do hope she has someone in her life she can trust to show her some mercy and help her out.
Was it humiliating? Really? I can see if she tried to humiliate her in front of her peers, but in front of strangers in which she probably doesn't put much interest in their opinions anyway, doesn't sound like humiliation. It sounds like the mother tried other ways and those ways weren't working.
"It's a form of insanity to think you'll end up with different results with the same approach." Albert Einstein (I've posted this before, but it's SO very true.)
Every kid is different and I wholeheartedly agree with Debbie. It would be a MILLION times more humiliating going to school and having to repeat a grade in front of your peers. This was this woman's way of showing she cares.
Heidie,
Would you do this to your sweet little boy when he is 14 and talkiing back to you? I know you wouldn't.
It is embarrasing and absolutely humiliating to be paraded with a sign on a roadway. This was tried as a punishment for misdemeanors in Texas, I believe and was roundly criticized as being cruel and unusual punishment.
Frankly, and I've said it before, when you have to use extreme punishment, you are dealing with a failure of parenting, not a failed child. Now, you are adding a damaged parent-child relationship to the mix. Where was this woman's caring the first time her daughter missed class or sassed her teacher? This was way too much, too late.
Ame
ditto Ame. Perfectly said.
"This was way too much, too late."
That's exactly right!
What is humiliating? Well, I think that question cannot stand alone when you are dealing with a young lady. The question, I believe, should be followed by ....and how does humiliating a child affect them?
The answer is simple: Humiliating a child strips them temporarily and many times permanently of what they believe to be the strength and dignity of who they are. There may not be much of that for a young girl to grasp these days and to put her in front of a bunch of people does nothing but dwindle her down to hurtful places. She will NEVER forget this, and I can almost gaurantee that she will not look back at this with thankfulness for an opportunity of a character change. Rather, she will probably look back with feelings of anger and resentment; therefore, gaining no sense of accomplishment that could have propelled her towards something meaningful in life.
Again- too much too late!
Isn't discipline meant to shepard the hearts of our children to run toward us instead of away. Yes- it takes work and lots of time and discernment.
That was beautiful, Monica!
Ame
As a former high school teacher and dealing with a broad spectrum of different kids and parenting techniques...My guess would be that she tried different avenues already. Maybe too much too late, but not everyone can afford tutoring or changing schools, and it's amazing how some kids DO react differently to different things.
You never know unless you're in their shoes and, I'll bet dollars to doughnuts, that since this girl was talking back to adults and not doing her homework that she just "felt" like an adult already. She probably had an attitude that she didn't need school...that she was "above" it. So, her mother made her realize that her attitude towards adults needed to be put to the test. I would say it's a humbling experience more than a humiliating one. Her mother stayed out there with her and didn't just leave her to the wolves.
What do you do when a teenager thinks that they are "above" everyone? Talk to them? That doesn't work. Punish them by grounding/taking away privileges? That doesn't work. Take away their T.V./cell phone/friends? That doesn't work. If she refuses to do homework and she is talking back to adults then I'm sure those punishments have already been tried. I *seriously* doubt that this punishment was a result of her daughter's first offense.
You see, yes she should have done a lot more earlier on. However, it sounds like she's a single mom just doing her best. Kids like this (and they are out there) need a shock value. There are even parenting classes that teach this method. Some parents will take away normal food for dinner and give them canned food or cereal (food you would eat if you didn't put forth effort in life). Still nutritious, but just bland. And, they eat with the rest of the family who have "normal" food. I've also known parents who take off the door to their son's room and take away everything except for their bed. They do it for 5 days and then return things to them as they progressively change their attitude.
This works for those who didn't lay the ground rules to begin with. And, if anything, it's humiliating to the parents.
So, what should she have done instead?
And, to answer your question to "How did she get her to stand on that street corner?"
Easy...kids who don't care what parents think, or adults for that matter, are up for those challenges. It's almost like she was saying, "Yeah, right. This is going to work...I don't care what adults think."
Then, she realized that it wasn't all fun and games anymore when push came to shove.
I 100% agree, Heidi. I think the only reason this is hitting such a nerve is because it was a public display, rather than something that was handled in a classroom or home.
I am on the page of... don't judge unless you know. These post are a bunch of opinions about a article that was one sided and unclear. We didn't get a look into the behaviors we don't know the mother or the child thus we really don't know what is going on.
IF I EVER find out that MY child is skipping class. I will be showing up to school in my PJ's and attending class with them for a month. They are fully aware, this isn't a threat.. This is a promise. And I also promise you that the humiliation they will be feeling will be nothing compared to the humiliation they will be feeling for the rest of their lives when they end up dropped out of school and working in a low paying job and driving a beat up car because they didn't have enough PRIDE in themselves to do what they are supposed to do.
And our punishment for poor grades... They are grounded until the grades are back up. Do you not think it is humiliating to tell your peers that you are grounded because you aren't doing what you are supposed to do?? and that they won't be seeing you out side of school for 9 more weeks??? I mean really, If you know any 14 years olds, I am sure she wasn't impressed about what the strangers on the street were thinking. Are we forgetting the way some of these kids conduct themselves. If you need a reminder I will take a camera to school Monday morning and share some pictures.
Assumption is a terrible thing, it creates drama and it causes division. Opinions should be formed based on facts not assumptions.
I am basing my opinions on facts! Perhaps others shouldn't be so quick to pooh-pooh the effects this will have on the most important thing that should be in that girl's life: her relationship with her mother. We KNOW that relationship is now compromised, regardless of how appropriate one thinks the punishment is. That child will fear her mom, respect that she has power, but will doubt that her mother is someone she can count on in times of trouble. It is humiliating to have to stand on the roadside wearing a sign. You are an object of public curiosity and ridicule! See it for what it is: cruel and unusual!
If you could do it to your child, more power to you. I never could and I feel strongly that this parent failed to help her child when she needed it. Again way too much, much too late.
Ame
Facts are that this child was skipping school, skipping class at least, getting poor grades and was showing herself off in class. Does this sound like a child to you that has a GREAT relationship with her mother??? Does this sound like a child that was turning to her mother in times of trouble to you? Since we are going to base our opinions on assumption here, then lets say she is a spoiled rotten bratt... Lets say that her mother has been working with the school... has her in counsiling... And is breaking her back to save her child... And her child doesn't care. Because these are the facts of a mother with an out of control teenage child. We are not talking a first grader... We are talking 14, this is an 8th grader to a Freshman in high school. A child that knows better. A child that was letting her mother down and not acting in the way a respectful child with a positive out look would be acting. And since we are going on assumption here, lets assume she was told that if she didn't knock the nonsense off that she would be sentenced to stand on the street corner for x amount of time and have other punishments. And she disregarded her mothers warnings. What if this truly was this womans last straw??
That child is no more psychologically scared then the kid who has to wear a pare of un cool jeans to school, glasses when none of their friends do, that terrible hair cut. At that age your concern is your peers and the opposite sex period. The thoughts and opinions of adults, if you are lucky, are an after thought. That girl irregardless of what you are assuming more than likely doesn't care what some 50 year old secretary thinks of her anymore than she thinks there is a man on the moon... Have you seen the way they dress (or don't dress would be a better way to phrase it) or act in public? I am very involved in my daughters high school because of Choir. And I can tell you that those kids are not the kids you went to school with. Yes the issues are the same for the most part but the mentality isn't.... Do not get me wrong their are still great kids out there, this isn't a generalized all kids are bad statement. But you are assuming this girl is a good girl and I am telling you don't assume anything.
And considering that your child is 2 as listed in your profile, you have many many years to realize what you are going to be capable of doing. And trust me when I tell you what you think you will do today will be totally different then what you will be doing tomorrow. When you have a teen and you are in the world of those teens and you see the things they do and the way they act. You will realize the depths a parent that truly loves her child can be forced to go when their child is lost.
And... remember we are basing this all on assumption because NO Where in that post does it say she stood on the corner crying. For all you know she was flipping passers by off. You are ASSUMING things that are not stated in the article, applying your own issues to it and making it into a criminal offense. Thus you are basing your opinion of the effects on this child and the humiliation her mother inflicted on her on your opinions not on FACTS... Facts would mean you know them personally, facts would be that the reporter interviewed both parties and wrote a lengthy book, facts would be that you stood there and saw it first hand. Anything else is opinion based on assumption, not on facts.
Oh and this "one" thinks that making her stand on a corner will not cause fear of her mother. It might cause her to temporarily hate/dislike her mother but who on here hasn't disliked something their mom made them do? Who on here doesn't have a child that hasn't disliked them because of something at least every other day? Upsetting your child is a part of your job because an child that is never upset is not being parented... The relationship is based on a history, not on one incident.
Fact - public punishment is degrading and humiliating.
Fact - mother made the child participate in an act of public punishment.
Opinion based on the above facts - the mother in this relationship failed to adequately parent her child and resorted to an unacceptable form of punishment which I feel will be damaging to the child and the mother.
And since you've made this personal by referencing my own situation - Do you know anything about me, or my experiences with "tough" teens? No.
I have never resorted to public (or private) humiliation of a child - and will never. It is detremental to the relationship you have with the child and teaches nothing but subservience. It does not teach how to make the right choices for the right reasons. It teaches the child to secretly hate you rather than respect and love you. The child may stay in line and do what you say, but will never see you in the same way again.
Think of a situation at work where the boss degrades those working for him or her. Those employees produce just what they have to in order to keep the boss off their backs. Are they working up to their potential - no. Are they happy? No. They are working out of fear.
Teenage life is scary enough.
There are other ways, better methods and better choices the mom could have made.
Ame
Ditto Ame! (Pam applauds). Bobbie, I don't yet have a teenager, but a 6th grader on the cusp of his teens. Not to mention the fact that DH is a youth minister and has been for the entire 15 years of our marriage, so I am well-versed in current youth culture and saturated in it at least 2 days a week. As a matter of fact we have about 20 9th-12th graders coming to our house tomorrow for a potluck lunch. Based on the article and what I know of teenagers (good kids, bad kids, and everything in between) I *KNOW* that such a thing would traumatize a teenager. Teens do seek adult approval. They may act all standoffish and cool, but the fact of the matter is that they are pleased and encouraged when adults invest in them. I think there is no way that such a "punishment" could not be emotionally damaging and could literally, quite possible, change the whole remainder of this girl's life---and not in a positive way. And this is very different from having to wear uncool jeans. Apples and oranges different. I totally agree with Ame that the fact that this mom felt she had to resort to humiliation just proves she she failed in parenting some time along the way. And, I really don't think we need to bring personal references into a debate.
I just realized I made a personal reference to Heidi somewhere in here, and I shouldn't have. I apologize.
Ame
I think this sounds like a mother that is at her wits ends. Why assume this mother hasn't tried everything & this was just a something she tried in a moment of desperation.
No one knows the effect this has had on the girl & in ten years she could just as easily come to her mom & say thank you for doing this to me as she could still be upset at her mom for doing it. I think that this shows the mom will go to any lengths to try to get the girl to listen.
At least this parent is doing something, regardless of what everyone else thinks.
I would rather publicly humiliate my child than have to identify her body in the morgue or take her to rape conseling...isn't that possibly where this could have been heading.
I think Bobbie says a lot when she says "Upsetting your child is a part of your job because an child that is never upset is not being parented... The relationship is based on a history, not on one incident"
And the fact is it is easy to say i would never do this, but until you are in that situation you do not know what you would do. I swore I would never say or do to my child things my parents did or said to me...that didn't work out so well.
Until you walk in her shoes you shouldn't judge her & that is precisely what is happening. Her daughter doesn't behave so the mom must not be doing her job.
As far as scaring a child into behaving...what is bootcamp or military school about?
You know, sometimes I wonder if I am bad at expressing myself in typing or what??? I am going to try to clarify myself on this one more time.........
You should not sit in judgment against people you know nothing about. You are assuming things that are not written into that article. Implying things that are just not there. You are taking your own personal experiences and opinions and assuming this child is one way or another and that this mother is one way or another. You have convicted her for doing something you only have a glimpse of and inserting assumptions into the prior and long term outcome of them..
Pam,
Our church has an out reach program in our community for troubled youth. We get our kids through the courts, we get our kids through referrals through the school district/local counseling center and we get them through word of mouth to each other. We have 32 kids that attend our Thursday night meetings and 47 that attend only for Sunday service. These kids are being bussed into our church and do not come in with practicing/believing parents. Many live in homes with addicts, all are below poverty level and many were on their way to prison. I am also involved in the youth ministries in our local juvenile prison. Trust me when I say that the best parents can raise children that end up in jail. There is a pastors son that is in there for burning down 4 churches in the community that surrounds his home town. There is also a Sheriffs sons that is in there for grand theft.. These are the kids I deal with..
By no means, am I trying to imply I am right or your are wrong, any of you. What I am saying is the world is full of shades of gray. And that I find it best not to assume things about things I know nothing about. If this debate had been about whether this was simply right or wrong then that is one thing. But this debate is criminalizing a woman and condoning a child that we don't have any personal information on.
If you were in a store and a child through a fit would you assume the mother is a bad mother or would you assume it must be past nap time? Because I am sure someone has assumed things about you... because none of us are super mom and we all can and will fail our children in some manner. And are we going to be wanting people judging us on assumptions or opinions not based on the facts of the case. The facts with the crying child could be, the child is spoiled, the child is sick, the child is tired, the child got hurt etc and so on.. unless you were standing there anything you know beyond the child crying is an assumption......... For which you will form and opinion. To which you will either frown at the mom in disgust, or you will give that knowing nod and smile we as moms all do but no matter what you will effect that woman. We should search out more truths and less spoon fed information (which is all the news in any forum is).
*** This and none of my other post on this thread were written with malice. They were not a personal attack. They were a difference of point of view (a debate) that I simply tried to expressed my view, even if it was not accepted. Because that is what debating is about. If I was supposed to be agreeing then this would be the agreeing board not the debating board.. And my reference to anyone was only meant to say that when you are 16 you think you will parent one way, when you are 25 you think you will parent another way and when your child is grown you will wish you would have parented another way. Until it is all over you don't know what you will have to do to save your child and until you see beyond your child being young then you have no clue what you as a mother might be up against. Who you socialize your child with now will not be the only people that child comes into contact with in life... Those contacts can turn a wonderful child into a monster...
Ame, it isn't personal..
If you know teenagers and the "really bad" teenagers (I used to teach at an alternative school and my FIL is an alternative school principal), like Bobbie said, they come from different types of families. Some of them have tried everything and some of them have tried nothing.
I guarantee you that that girl is thankful her mother tried *something*.
I've overheard kids literally tell other kids that "Wow, your mom must really care about you if she's grounding you and coming to your classes to make sure you're there. My mom is too lazy to do that."
It's amazing how kids are more observant than some adults.
No one has answered my question above though...What do you do when you've tried *everything*?
The answer is... SOMETHING!!
The answer is ANYTHING!!! Especially when it means the life of your child and even if it means they might think they hate you for a time being.
Bobbie - I have no problem with other opinions being expressed. It is important to hear what everyone has to say. My problem was that it seemed to me you were dismissing all the posts as based only on conjecture, and not on fact.
A debate is a good thing as long as one does not try to devalue the argument of another as being baseless:
"These post are a bunch of opinions about a article that was one sided and unclear. We didn't get a look into the behaviors we don't know the mother or the child thus we really don't know what is going on."
I also had a problem with your assumption of what I will do as a parent You see, I parent my children all the time. I don't wait for something to happen and then say, "bad boy". Discipline is about being proactive in teaching your child so that when the only boundaries are internal ones (conscience) your child makes the right choices. Being a parent is not about "upsetting your child" but rather about guiding your child so that when you are not there to tell the child "no", the child obeys his or her inner voice. Humiliation plays no part in who I am as a parent or as a person.
"And considering that your child is 2 as listed in your profile, you have many many years to realize what you are going to be capable of doing. And trust me when I tell you what you think you will do today will be totally different then what you will be doing tomorrow. When you have a teen and you are in the world of those teens and you see the things they do and the way they act. You will realize the depths a parent that truly loves her child can be forced to go when their child is lost."
No child of a caring parent will ever be lost because the parent will have layed the necessary groundwork and will step in before it gets to be a major problem. That's the job of a parent - not to upset - but to set right. And that's not what this mommy did. She did not set things right.
What should this parent have done? Anything except what she did. Two wrongs do not make a right. It is not right to publicly punish anyone. I won't bother listing all the things she could have done, because that would be conjecture. I have no idea what else she's tried. I do know that she could not have tried much for it to get this far.
Obviously we have two very different viewpoints and that's good. I don't agree with you, but I respect your opinion. I hope you feel the same.
Ame
Ame - I agree with you that this mother should not have publicly humiliated her child, and that no parent should ever publicly humiliate a child (or even privately, generally). But I can tell you that any caring parent can have a child be lost. And there are lots of people on this board who will tell you of sons and daughters, brothers and sisters of loving, caring parents who were and are lost. I often tell my children that successful parenting is 50% hard work, 50% prayer, and 50% luck - and yes, that adds up to 150%. I can think of a few times in the lives of one or more of my sons that the coin was standing on edge and could have gone either way, no matter how much caring parenting I had done. And I have seen other caring, loving parents who have a child who is lost. It happens. It is probably the second most painful thing that can happen to a parent (the most painful being the death of a child), and I surely pray it never happens to anyone I know in person or on the internet. But don't kid yourself that it can't happen to a caring parent. It can.
As for Bobbie saying ANYTHING, I know just what she means. At one point in our relationship I told a son that if he continued to believe it was his right to smoke pot (at 17-1/2), it was my right to change the locks on his 18th birthday and put his clothes on the porch. That probably fits in Bobbie's category of "ANYTHING". And I would have done it - I have never made idle promises or threats to my children. Yes, I had tried lots of other means of addressing the problem - and none of them had worked. Short of having him arrested (which (a) wouldn't have happened because he was buying, not selling, and (b) you don't have your child arrested to "scare him straight" in a big city - it may work in small towns but not in big cities), I believed I had reached the end of my rope. And it would certainly have been a lot worse than "public humiliation". Did it work? Yes. Do I know why? No. But that was my ANYTHING. Other parents ship a child off to relatives in another part of the country, or to boarding school. And even parents who have reached the ANYTHING level can lose a child to whatever madness or obsession or vice or just whatever that the child chooses over the right path.
And Bobbie is correct - all of our posts in this thread are opinions about a situation where the only "facts" we know are from one newspaper article or two, maybe some TV or radio followup, and a bunch of opinions expressed in blogs and here. It may not be total conjecture, but it is sure close enough, as the saying goes, "for government work".
Frankly, we are all pontificating about a situation where we know next to nothing. Some of us are speaking from principle and the experience of having raised children through to adulthood (more or less successfully), or from the experience of working with children in that age group. Others are speaking from their training or education, and from principle. But again, we know so little about this family and the history of this situation, that we are opining about conjecture.
I don't agree with what this mother did. But I understand Bobbie's point of view. I don't agree with her on this specific matter, but I think in principle I do agree with her on most of what she has said.
This is and was the point of my post period.. And for that matter the reasoning behind my post on the General board. By the way, Thank you Ginny.
I have been with this group for 8 years and as MANY will attest I know MOST every bodies story that has been with the group for very long, scripture and verse and I take this VERY personally. We have mom's that have drug addicted children on this site. We have mom's that have raised teen mothers on this site. We have mothers that have children that have died in car accidents, of drug overdoses and illness. We have mom's with kids that have failed out of a grade. Who have behavior problems. Who have been placed in Psychiatric units and JAIL. So many more cases of children that have been on the edge as Ginny said and many more as they grow that will end up there.
I wasn't going to go there as I didn't want to stir up the pain in the lives of those mothers, but since you insist on not seeing that there is a point beyond yours. Here is my point... Those mothers did their very best... It is not your place to judge them, as you don't know what they tried before the bad things that happened to them happened you have no clue what depths they went before that child became lost...
Now that said.... You, more or less accuse me of attacking your opinions and your parenting.. I am telling you that your opinions and view are that of a young mother, that hasn't had to face these issues with in her own parenting and until you have you need to tread lightly on your comments, this is NOT an attack this is a fact. Because you saying the things you have said is hurtful to the mom's that have raised a troubled youth. You are calling not only the mom in that article but you are calling them a failure. They come here and read this thread and they are seeing that you are assuming that they didn't properly raise their children and it is their fault. Do you think that is a pain they need to rehash??? You basically do not know of what your post has the potential to do, there are over 4000 members on this site... what if some mom was coming here to try to talk through her issues with her child and ask for suggestions for help? What if she is at her anything stage? Do you think she would want to bare her soul if we all jumped to the conclusion that you have?
I do not agree that what the mom in this article did, just for those that think I do. I do however, agree with doing anything and resorting to anything if it means saving your child. I also believe a mother doing her best, whether it is my best or not, is a good mother.... Because we are all shooting from out hips when it comes to raising our children...
I do not think that you shouldn't have voiced your opinion here, I think you should tread lightly on the way you put things, keeping in mind the effects words have on other mom's that attend this group. Your point is to have your say about this topic. MY point is for the better meant of this board and the women that attend it.
** I am speaking in this post, not yelling or attacking in tone.. Just making sure my thoughts won't be misconstrued into something it isn't.
By young mother I mean, a mother with young children.. A mother who hasn't had to face their child turning to behaviors that go against the parents morals and beliefs. Who hasn't had their precious baby turn into an adult in front of their very eyes and see the things that that child will do to themselves and others. I am not referring to your age, I am referring to your life experience as a parent.
When I was a young mom.. I thought that my children would be one way. And then I realized that you can't assume how your child will turn out. Thus far... I have a 16 year old, a soon to be 14 year old and soon to be 9 year old twins. My children are good kids, very good kids. But I actively parent. Their friends and the people they are associated with through school are not all good kids however and many are not actively parented. I keep this in the back of mind when I speak to and discuss issues with my children. I do not pretend (not saying you are) that these people aren't out there, I teach them about these people and what these people are capable of. Do I think I am a great mother? No I think I have good kids and that I have been lucky to be able to see far enough into the future to deviate some of the problems that could have come into our lives. Do I think my children will never have a major problem? No, I know they will... Because perfectly raised children stray.. They loose their way. It is my job to be there to drag them back by any means.. I will and they know it. My parenting is done by love and discussion.. We talk constantly about ANYTHING they want to talk about. But they also know that I will get ugly with them IF they do not do what they are supposed to do. I have yet to have to do it, but they know I am strong in my love for them and that when it comes down to it I will do what it takes. I am the mom that would go after the drug dealer. I am the mom that would send her child away, for the sake of that child. Purely because my love for them is that deep.. As a young mom, I would have said never... As a older mom, I can say whatever it takes. And at some point talking and being loving with your child may not be all it takes... God willing, that isn't the case.. But our moms on here never thought their children would do the things they have done either. You don't give birth and think some day you are going to let me down. You give birth and you think anything it takes.
No child of a caring parent will ever be lost because the parent will have layed the necessary groundwork and will step in before it gets to be a major problem. That's the job of a parent - not to upset - but to set right.
Don't you know of any families that have several kids and all of the kids turn out great except that "one" that is just out there? They were all parented the same way by the same two people and yet, one turns out to be way different from the rest? Gosh, I thought all families had that one out there member. If your theory is correct, how do you explain that? You can lay all the ground work that you want, but you can't MAKE them follow it. You can do everything right and still have a child that turns to drugs, or gets pregnant at a early age or hangs out with the worng crowd or does bad in school and disrespects people. You can do everything right and still have a child take the wrong path. My opinion is that you fail when you don't do what ever it takes to get them off that path and back on the right path. I am also with Bobbie on the "what ever it takes" theory. You hope and pray that your ground work takes, but if it doesn't, than you need to be willing to do what ever it takes. That is where the true hard work in parenting is.
Just as a ps to that last post of mine, I don't want to make it sound like I think parents that can't get their kids off that path have failed... I think it is when you don't even try that you fail them. Just wanted to make that a little more clear. I should have worded that better.
Vicki, you did just fine..
I just want to say, that I totally agree with Bobbie on the point about our lack of compassion these days. I would love to think that I would never use humiliation with my child, but I just really can't say what I would do if my child were headed down the wrong path. I do get tired of people always blaming children's bad behavior on bad parenting. There are so many different factors that can effect a child's behavior. We went through a rough time with my 5 yr. old ds last year. He was acting just terrible a lot of the time. We just couldn't figure out what was going on. I am sure during some of his public melt downs, there were people whispering what a bad parent I was. Come to find out, he has really terrible reflux. He just felt horrible most of the time and that was why he was acting out. We got his reflux under control and he is a totally different child now. I just really wish people would stop being so judgmental and start being a little more compassionate.
I agree with Heidi 100% !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Unless you have a teen with a rotten attitude- you might be surprised at how many different things you have to try before getting a point across.
A friend from church (she is a school principal) had 2 teen girls. They were raised very well. One ended up partying and getting in trouble quite alot in high school.
Another family at church - millinaire actually- his children were raised so WELL!! Highly intelligient people. DS got a girl pregnant.
I do NOT agree that this was failed parenting. Its too easy for someone with a toddler to think they know exactly how they will be parenting their perfect child when they are 14... You have no idea what the future holds. I have 3 boys. I am not teaching them to be GAY with my parenting- however- if one of them decides in his teen yrs that's the way he is going to swing... is that MY FAULT??? Absolutely not. If one decides NOT to go to college even tho we have encouraged it from birth- did I fail as a parent? If one decides to try drugs or have sex even tho we have talked for yrs about making good choices, etc... is it failed parenting?
I have an ADHD child is that due to BAD PARENTING?
My bil got into drugs as a teen. Ended up in trouble with the law, alcoholic, addicted to drugs by 20's and then diagnosed as a schizo... His brother and sister turned out normal and have never even tried smoking a cigarette. So explain to me how the parents failed 1 of their 3 children somehow? They were all parented the same.
I agree with Debbie- people need to stop being so judgemental.
BTW- I think the Mom's idea was rather creative. LOL! They will laugh about this in yrs to come. My parents tried some things with my sisters and I when we were teens. We laugh with my parents about it now. Certainly no long term emotional damage was done to us. I am sure this girl will be fine.
"I think the Mom's idea was rather creative. LOL! They will laugh about this in yrs to come. My parents tried some things with my sisters and I when we were teens. We laugh with my parents about it now. Certainly no long term emotional damage was done to us. I am sure this girl will be fine".
Well said Conni, i think we tend to dramatise parenting issues way too much.
I did not mean to offend or hurt anyone. You are right, there are more factors than just parenting that affect what path a child will take. I was not saying that every parent is responsible for every child that went the wrong way. Of course other factors like addiction, medical issues, psychiatric issues, emotional, social issues all affect a child's path. These things are often beyond a parent's control. I witnessed my SIL's struggle with her son and his mental illness. I wasn't even thinking about these things when I posted. I am sorry.
Bobbie, you are a great mom. You are doing what I hope I will be able to do and saying what I hope I will be able to say when my children are the age of your children.
I am not judging anyone, either. I was just trying to say, in my own inept fashion, that I thought what she did was wrong and that think she really did a hurtful thing to her child rather than a helpful one.
Again, I didn't mean to offend or hurt anyone. I'm sorry.
Ame
Ame, Your apology isn't needed... This board is to help each other, if nothing else GROW. Maybe this "debate" helped you grow just a little bit over the last couple of days... Heck, It might have even opened the eyes of some others that were only reading... This whole thing isn't a bad thing.. It is a life lesson... A lesson unfortunately many would do good to learn...
I just really wish I didn't have to go there and I hope the moms I made reference to know my intent in bring up the points of reference I used. We are all a work in progress. We make mistakes, we are human.. It isn't the mistakes that make us failures, it is the giving up that does... Parenting is hard, it often gets harder than you will ever think it could get.
It is hard putting your heart out there, giving your all and having their EVERYTHING hinge on your success or failure.
Yes, it is necessary. I never intended to hurt anyone or to pontificate. Yes, this board helps me grow every day. I come here and read and see things in a different way, or have my feelings and opinions validated.
I really am not a heartless, compassionless person, or even a judgemental one. I am sorry I came off that way. I get so caught up sometimes in the hypothetical that I don't think through the reality.
Thank you.
Ame
Hubby's aunt and uncle adopted 2 children, a boy and a girl. They are all grown up now. The girl has 2 girls by different fathers and has had about a billion jobs.
The boy went to college and has an engineering degree. He is married with 2 kids, and always has a steady job, as does his wife.
They both had the same upbringing, but turned out much differently. I wonder how much of that is that they had completely different birth parents and different kinds of things they must have inherited from those birth parents.
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