The discussion about the HIV/AIDS home testing kit reminded me that I have been disgusted by commercials I have heard recently for home DNA testing kits. These commercials are couched mostly in terms of whether you know who the parent of a child really is - just swab your cheek and the child's cheek, follow the instructions, and voila, you'll know whether you are really the father of this child (and, unspoken, whether you should be supporting this child).

I am absolutely opposed to this. I wonder what other people think.

By Marg on Saturday, October 29, 2005 - 08:13 am:

I saw this recently also Ginny, I oppose it also.

By Juli4 on Saturday, October 29, 2005 - 02:54 pm:

I oppose
How those tests come out weigh heavily in everyones lives and mistakes can be detrimental. I think a professional should do it and also I think that it wouldn't be admissable in court.

By Ginny~moderator on Saturday, October 29, 2005 - 04:22 pm:

It probably wouldn't be admissible in court because you wouldn't have an evidence trail. But it would probably be enough reason for a court to grant a request for an "official" test where a neutral party takes the samples and delivers them to the lab.

One of the reasons I'm opposed is something I read about occasionally in the local legal newspaper. (I'm a law junkie and read the Legal Intelligencer, the Philadelphia area's legal newspaper, every day.) A couple starts a nasty divorce, hubby doesn't want to pay child support and wants to get back at wifey, so he asks for a DNA test of a child or all the children. Sometimes it happens that a child who hubby though was his isn't - and you are left with a child rejected by the man whom the kid thought was daddy for x number of years, and mommy is portrayed as a betraying ••••. If you have been a daddy to a child for a number of years, why does DNA wipe out the relationship you have built?

Until DNA testing became so easy and common, if a child was born into an active marriage there was a legal presumption that the husband was the father of the child, especially if the husband allowed his name to be put on the birth certificate, and it took some fairly strong evidence to override that presumption - which the courts seldom did. Now with DNA, it is happening often enough to cause legislatures to reconsider writing the laws about paternity presumption. I really don't like this. I think if a man has been acting on the presumption tht he is a child's father, he should legally and morally remain that child's father, even if DNA testing says otherwise. Sperm is not all that makes a father, and one mistake doesn't make a wife/mother a ••••.

(Well, it turns out that s-l-u-t is a disallowed word at Momsview. Probably a good idea, given the automatic web scanners and the stuff they look for. But momentarily surprising.)

By Truestori on Saturday, October 29, 2005 - 05:48 pm:

I don't believe in this either! Our society wants convience at any price! Makes me so mad!

By Dawnk777 on Saturday, October 29, 2005 - 09:24 pm:

Ginny, I agree with you. How can a guy, who thought he was dad, just STOP being dad? It takes more than sperm to be a dad. Emotional support and being there for your kids is important, too.

By Feona on Sunday, October 30, 2005 - 07:22 am:

While I can imagine all the damage this sort of test might cause, I can't imagine government banning this sort of test. Freedom of speech or something.

I mean silly arguments can be made like father wants to know for sure if he passed on his chance of heart disease or balding to son.

By Livvy on Sunday, October 30, 2005 - 08:05 am:

I am not very "up" on this testing but I thought that you had to order the kit (which is pretty expensive for the average Joe), do the swabbing and send the kit back to where you ordered it and call for the results. I thought this was admissable in court.

Are there newer tests that allow it ALL to be done right at home? Wow, I am really out of step with what's new!! I know some of my former students did it the way I typed above but I had no idea the other was available.

By Ginny~moderator on Sunday, October 30, 2005 - 09:00 am:

You are right about the process, Libby. You buy the kit, take the swabs, and send them to a lab. But the chain of evidence requires someone other than an interested party to be able to swear that s/he took the swabs and be able to attest (by documentation or other hard evidence) to the identity of the persons from whom the swabs were taken, someone at the lab to swear that s/he received the swabs from the person who took them, conducted the tests, and recorded the results. Putting the swabs in the mail completely breaks the chain, aside from not having a disinterested party take the swabs.

As for the expense, a quick Google brings up ads for anywhere from $138 to $300 for a 3-day turnaround - not particularly expensive. Turns out they've figured out the "chain of evidence" thing too - if you use a lab where they send someone to collect the samples, it only runs to $500-600. Sheesh.

I guess for me it's one thing if a guy is suddenly hit with a court order for child support from a woman he is not married to. Then it makes sense to do the DNA testing, and do it on the cheap at first to see if you have reason for a testing process that is acceptable to the court.

(That bolt out of the blue - suddenly learning you have a child you didn't know about - happened to a somewhat removed relative - a woman he'd spent time with when he was in basic training went on welfare many years later and he got hit with child support for a 13 year old kid, because welfare took it to court. He and his wife not only agreed to pay, but also spent time and money getting visitation rights and setting up visitation and trying to play a positive role in the child's life - they are a real class act.)

But I think it is something else entirely when the couple has been married and suddenly "dad" decides the child isn't his and wants to try to prove it. There ought to be a law that if you act like the father, you are the father (which is still the state of the law in many states), even if the marriage comes to an end.

By Feona on Sunday, October 30, 2005 - 10:04 am:

But if you allow it for one person you have to allow it for everyone.

You can't have one rule for one group of people (the good people) and one rule for another group.

Who is to judge who the good people are?


Just reminds me that this certainly is a capitalist society.

By Livvy on Sunday, October 30, 2005 - 10:37 am:

I agree with you Ginny on the whole father thing. If you've acted like one for a while to a child, be a man and continue to do so!!

I guess the expense isn't that bad but I know the students I used to teach could NEVER afford that kind of money for the tests.

On the good side, (if there is a good side) doing it yourself may do away with Maury Povich-like shows asking "Are you my baby's Daddy?" I always hated those shows!!

By Ginny~moderator on Sunday, October 30, 2005 - 03:23 pm:

Oh, I agree, Feona, if you allow it for one you allow it for all. What I don't like is that a matter of sperm can override several years of relationship. And I really, really, really don't like having these test kits available by phone, mail or internet. Again, just because we can do something doesn't mean we should.

By Vicki on Sunday, October 30, 2005 - 06:50 pm:

I agree that it is wrong for someone who has been a father for years to try to drop out of the picture. However, there are MANY women who also pin things on a guy and these tests could help them.

By Reds9298 on Sunday, October 30, 2005 - 06:58 pm:

Ditto Vicki. I'm not sure how I feel about these tests. I personally feel that paternity should be determined at the time of birth (if there is any question)so there is none of this business of guys who go years thinking they are the father, mom gets a mean streak when they break off and confirms that they *aren't* the father just to be mean.
It just seems like a child and the mother should know who the father is right from the get-go.

By Feona on Monday, October 31, 2005 - 07:10 am:

I thought that used to be the rule. If you acted like a father than that was it. I guess they changed it.

By Feona on Monday, October 31, 2005 - 07:12 am:

I don't think the governement bans stuff.

Only
stem cell research
drugs

Can't think of anything else...

By Kaye on Monday, October 31, 2005 - 08:21 am:

This is interesting to me. The reason is I have a niece that I am pretty sure is not my bio niece. My brother has has never questioned paternity (although he does know that his gf had sex with her hubby in the same time period). My bro was stupid (still is..lol). He has spent a lot of time making this child his, in an abnormal way. So now she does walk like him, but I would be suprised if she was really his. It is a long conluded story and although I would personally love to know the truth, all it will do is hurt my niece and my brother. However the mother uses her as bait, it is an entirely horrible situation. Legally when my brother married this woman he was doing so off of false documents (in texas you can't divorce while you are pg, she lied on the papers). So for several years there was a chance her ex could sue for testing, annulment, etc. That statue of limitations is up and my bro and the woman have divorced. Anyway, I guess the long point is, she is a real winner and the part of me that wants to know is just to call her bluff. Also she thinks her daughter deserves all that my children get from my dad (and from my grandmother), my dad doesn't really have a relationship with her. But my grandmother is very very close to her and keeps the ex very close so she will "allow" her to see her. I just hate it when people use others to get ahead and wish I could stop her, but I also see that it would only hurt innocent people and I guess I know that woman has to live with those choices everyday, she is miserable most of the time. Anyway, it wouldn't suprise me if one day my brother finally tested.

I don't think it would make a difference on who would test if you did this at home or a lab. It isn't like you can do it without some participation. Wouldn't it be easier to explain that we went to the doc for a check up and they did a strep test, than we played with qtips at daddy's house? I also think it gives couples who did have an issue the option to test in the privacy of their home and not have to be outed in public (i did grow up in a small town).