Is it a Racial or Poor Thing....
Moms View Message Board: The Kitchen Table (Debating Board): Is it a Racial or Poor Thing....
IMHO I don't think so but some law makers think it is...
Racial or Poor
What do you think??
I should have stated that helping the victims of Katrina...Does race or money have anything to do with it???
No I don't think that they were playing the race card--- yet.
But the fact that they are poor- that is what they are emphasizing. Like I said in the other post, they had a chance to take federal funds to get the poor people out before she struck. Now they are whining that poor people are affected.
I, however, would like to point out the irony in the comment by Jesse Jackson.
Rep. Jesse Jackson Jr., D-Illinois, said too much focus has been placed on the looting, taking away from what should be the priority: getting food, water and stability to the tens of thousands of displaced victims.
puh-LEASE. Too Much FOCUS? What are the aid workers SUPPOSED to do? They are the ones jeopardizing and hindering the relief efforts! What is the press supposed to say?
It would have been more productive for Jackson to try to get a message out to those looters and shooters to STOP IT ALREADY!
Sorry-that was Jesse JR. Any relation to the Rev. ?
I heard on the news today that a Governor from one state say they are saying that it is a racial thing. Thats why I am thought I would post and see what others thought.
I don't believe that getting help to the victims is racial, just curious what others thought.
This was suggested in an interview on either CNN or Fox - don't remember
I DON'T think it's a racial thing, and I get so sick of people trying to make everything a racial thing.
But, if you want to pick bones, it was primarily (almost ALL) blacks doing the looting, etc. So I'd have to agree that the entire situation would have been better served if SOMEone, ANYone could have convinced them to stop what they were doing so aid could be gotten to them quicker.
Then we get on the merry-go-round about why it took so long for aid to arrive in the first place.....
I have no doubt, we'll have topic after topic here to discuss for a long time.....
I also don't think it is a racial thing and I also get sick and tired of everything always coming to that.
I don't think it is. The race card is always pulled out when it involves African Americans, IMO. It's kinda old.
Rep. Jesse Jackson Jr., D-Illinois, said too much focus has been placed on the looting, taking away from what should be the priority: getting food, water and stability to the tens of thousands of displaced victims.
puh-LEASE. Too Much FOCUS? What are the aid workers SUPPOSED to do?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Have the National Guard ready to go in right after the hurricane to put down the looting so the aid can get in.
Maybe it's not a racial thing. But considering how badly it's been handled I can't blame people for thinking it is. There's got to be some reason for the failures.
I am so angry that the race card is being played here! All of the poor in New Orleans could have just as very well been poor white people, or poor mexican people, or poor whatever people. I do NOT believe things would have worked faster or been done different. It angers me that activists say that if the poor had been white that it would have been taken care of right away. If people were looting/raping/shooting I think it would get the same coverage for poor whites that is has been getting because its disgusting behaviour that needs to be exposed and precautions taken. I am smart enough to know that all of those people aren't bad people just because a few decide to act assinine. I still have compassion and want to help because they are my FELLOW HUMAN BEINGS. That could be me! Where I live! Even after Ivan it took three days, maybe more, I think for us to get any help or for them to make it through to our area with food and water! We all pooled together and shared in the meantime, neighbor helping neighbor, all races together. That's what good people are supposed to do! I don't think ANYONE could have predicted this disaster. The gov is being damned because they should have had preps in place. How could you possibly have prepared for such a tremendous tragedy? Its waaaaaay above and beyond what anyone could have ever dreamed or predicted. There are so many facotrs here. I am not going to segue onto that subject though.
Would Jesse Jackson and all the other black activists be so strongly protesting this issue if N.O. was filled with a bunch of poor white people????? Honestly! I don't think so! Think about it! I also heard that people are getting po'd because they are being referd to as "refugees". WTH? Aren't they? A refugee is: One who flees in search of refuge, as in times of war, political oppression, or religious persecution. I am tired of all of this politically correct junk, just tired to death of it. Now if you say "refugee" you are being "prejudiced". A person can't say anything anyomore without being persecuted for it.
If they would have dropped the huge plats of food and water and it killed the swarming people that would be an issue. People are mad that the dead aren't being taken care of. Wouldn't they rather make sure all those alive are found first? Yeah, its horrible, but there are hardly any resources there. The most important thing is finding people that are alive. I don't know if I am even getting my point across. I guess I feel that no matter what choice the people in charge make ti will be the wrong one. Everyone will say it should have been done differently.
I wonder how many people are going to try and sue the gov and the state of LA and the city of N.O.
This is not not not a racial issue.
Oh, I forgot to say, nature doesn't discriminate.
Amen, Kim!
I have no doubt some shyster attorney will pull together a class action lawsuit - New Orleans seems to be the *queen* of frivilous lawsuits. Not that I think some of the people *may* not have a legitimate reason for a lawsuit - but believe me when I say, thousands and thousands will jump on that bandwagon, and from history in the N.O. area as regards to lawsuits, MANY, MANY of them will be B.S.! The people will lie and someone will back them up. I have seen a huge share of that in my almost 40 years of living there.
And as for the *is it black or is it poor* thing - the 2 examples that are being shown on TV were shot by 2 different news stations - so who is to say that either of them wouldn't have referred to the other person with the bread and water in the same way??? And there ARE whites/asians/hispanics, whatever in the same place as the blacks right now, the reason you are seeing mostly blacks is because they are the inner city, poor people who HAD NO MEANS to leave!!!
Honestly, too much time is being wasted belaboring points that make no difference in the grand scheme of things.
This has been FUBAR from the get-go, the concentration needs to be on saving lives, feeding and sheltering the survivors, getting medical attention to those who need it, evacuating them, and THEN cleaning up the city. The people and the media need to stop fueling this *race* fire. That can be dealt with later on if need be.
I'm sorry, but while blame is going to fall somewhere eventually, at this point in time, I blame the media for some of the problems, particularly the racial issue, simply because they refuse to move past it. I cannot tell you how many times I have heard the same thing on MSNBC, Fox, CNN and the local stations here. They need to give it a rest.
YES, the conditions are terrible, YES someone screwed up BIG time in the very beginning, YES the events and conditions of the past 5/6 days are totally unacceptable and inhumane, but for the media to spend all of their time talking about the most negative aspect of it, doesn't anyone agree that showing more of the positive side that is beginning to happen will go further in calming people, allaying some of their fears and giving them a little hope?
Maybe I'm too close to the situation to be objective. I am just so angry that things have been the way they have since the storm passed, I am angry that the N.O. citizens portrayed the city in the light they did, I am angry at the looting/murders/rapes/conditions these people have been living in, I am angry at the media for playing the racial card and dwelling on it.
At this point I wish I could stand up with a huge megaphone and scream at all of them, make them all listen and start DOING what needs to be done instead of TALKING about it.
I agree nature doesn't discriminate.
I just hate hearing the term refugees when we are talking about our fellow Americans. To me it is a term used in war torn countries, not here.
I could not believe my ears the other night. There was a white journalist saying that some people didnt get out because they got paid on friday and they didnt have the funds to leave. I totally empathized and agreed with that. In his next breath however he said to the black person that he was interviewing that "us white folks dont know what it is to live paycheck to paycheck like you african americans so let us know what that is like" My mouth dropped open. I live in probably the most "white" place ever, rural oregon is not particularily diverse. We arent racist, as long as you act like an oregonian we dont care  we just dont have alot of black people here. We do have alot of poverty. Lack of jobs and money is not a racial thing. Poor is Poor. So no, I dont think it is race, it is poor.
Kris, in all the stuff I've seen and heard this week, I never heard that, and I am glad I didn't, it would have just infuriated me that much more!!!!!!!
What news program were you watching Kris, I can't believe he would say that. I am white & live pay check to paycheck. In fact I $75.00 left after paying all my bills & donating to the Red Cross. I have 12 days left till payday.
I read this on Yahoo & thought is fit this situation:
"The first few days were a natural disaster. The last four days were a man-made disaster," said Phillip Holt, 51, who was rescued from his home Saturday with his partner and three of their aging Chihuahuas. They left a fourth behind they couldn't grab in time.
Emily, I seem to be right on your heels! And once again, ditto Emily. You seem to be saying everything on my mind, but much better!
What a horrible thing to say. My husband and I live paycheck to paycheck and we are white. We actually moved here (West Coast) from North Idaho...talk about lack of diversity. And believe me, there were so many people in the Northwest, white people, living paycheck to paycheck.
Bless your heart, Emily, you have 75.00 and 12 days to go? How great of you to reach out to those in need. But now I'm worried about you!
I don't think it has been a racial thing or an economic level thing. But what I think doesn't matter as much as the thinking of the people there.
Part of it, I suspect, is that they are understandably so caught up in their fears and immediate physical needs, they are trying to find "someone" to blame. And part of it, I think, is that they think, for example. of the tsunami victims and don't realize how long it took from the time the tsunami struck until U.S. aid workers and aid were on the ground - that didn't happen overnight either.
I think we - our government and systems - were sadly deficient here. I think we should have had the National Guard and choppers and the big military trucks and high-water vehicles in there immediately after Katrina passed over. Yes, there was no major flood immediately, but there was still a stadium without power, without food, and jam-packed with 25,000 people - and a whole city without power for the pumps, without a whole range of necessities, and it was immediately obvious that there was poor or little communication.
I think there is going to be plenty of blame to go around, and I hope it falls on the correct shoulders. But I don't think all of these mistakes and ommissions happened particularly because most of the people left in NO are/were black and/or poor. Those factors may - not "will", but certainly "may" - come into play in the next few months and after.
Whole lives have been destroyed along with their homes and people have been left with nothing but what they stand up in. They will need housing, food, clothing, medical treatment, schooling for their children, for a long time to come. Those who can work will be competing with the citizens of whatever city they are taken to for jobs. They will all be competing for resources that are in place for the existing population and it will be difficult sometimes to stretch them to include a totally destitute population.
Some on the board have already mentioned that their schools are already stretched to the breaking point, but some of those schools are going to be taking in refugee children. Along with having nothing and needing everything, these children have been horribly traumatized and will bring a whole new set of problems into the classrooms.
I think that after the first rush to get them all out and into safe places is dealt with and we start dealing with "what's next" for the next 3, 6 or 12 months will say a lot about us as a community. And I mean by that the community of the United States.
Oh, and I have thought Jesse Jackson is a jerk for a long, long time. He runs around looking for issue coattails to hang onto for publicity, but I don't see him doing much good for anyone. I have known a lot of African-American advocates, agitators and "rabble rousers", but those I know are people who are in for the long haul, who pick an issue or two and stick with them, working with a community or organization and attacking specific problems and specific community issues with intelligence and organization. That does not describe Jesse Jackson.
Didn't I read somewhere that it has to remain a local or state issue until they call the federal government and tell them that they need the help? I could swear that I heard that on the news and that the governer didn't put the call in for help until late Tuesday or early Wednesday??? Please don't tell me I am making that up. LOL I already think I am loosing brain cells this week!!
From my understanding, you are correct Vicki on all counts. State has to ask for help and our governor has been horribly slow to do so.
Now I find that a bit "silly" for lack of a better word....
hmmm... than if in fact that is true, I don't see how the blame can go much further. Silly as it might be, there are rules and laws put into effect for reasons. You can't ignore some and follow some.
If you see a dying man on the street are you going to wait for him to ask for help or are you going to give him some? I think that is a lame excuse for dropping the ball.
Nicki, don't worry about me...I have all my needs met.
But didn't Bush declare the New Orleans area a disaster area before Katrina even hit? If an area is declared a disaster area, I would expect the disaster agencies to do their job.
And, for heaven's sake - we all saw what was happening on TV. The head of FEMA has been quoted several times as downplaying the scope and extent of the disaster, calling it "rumor" and "anecdotal". If FEMA and the rest of the government wanted to do their job, all someone had to do was call the governor of Louisiana and tell her to make the formal request - like on Tuesday evening or Wednesday morning at the latest.
Now I find that a bit "silly" for lack of a better word....
Ummm...not really. "States rights" mean that the national govt can't swoop down and take over a state. It is actually a checks and balances system. Our governor, Kathleen Blanco, has been quoted as saying she really didn't know how bad things were. Well, all she HAD to do was turn on the TV. However, one good thing she has done since then is hired the former FEMA director, who handled 9/11 and the Missouri floods, to serve as her advisor. I'm thinking the governor holds much more responsibility than Bush does for the horrendous handling of the New Orleans situation.
She didn't know how bad things were? She actually said this?
I'm thinking your last comment may be right, Pam.
Bush declared the states pinpointed for this storm as "states of emergency"; not disaster areas.
I agree with Pam on this one. We have elected officials at every level for a town, city and state. Each one must be held accountable in the realm of their position.
I'm thinking the governor holds much more responsibility than Bush does for the horrendous handling of the New Orleans situation.
I couldn't agree more with that statement!! And I also think the mayor is going to come under some heavy fire too. The entire thing was already a huge mess with nothing much going on by the time the feds were called in. Then everyone expected things to be in full force in 10 minutes. You can't call up troops and have the, there any faster than he did once he got the call for help. And it does seem to me that there are plenty of National Guard troops available contrary to all the reports that they were all over seas. There will be those that are so anti Bush that no matter what is said about the situation it will be his fault though. But in doing that, it would do a huge diservice to the future planning of disasters. This needs to be looked at for the truth so that it doesn't happen again.
This natural disaster is just that a disaster. We need to quit pointing fingers at whose to blame for what. Many of the events were unforeseen. Yes, NO knew the were in the eye of the storm but then the levees broke posing a HUGE search /rescue nightmare. Miss and Alabama are dealing with mass devastations as well.
Months from now we can discuss who did what, when and learn from mistakes. Now is not the time. We can be proactive for the displaced people from this storm....we should think about them and quit trying to place blame.
We are trying to take in a mom and grandmom of one of my dh's comrads from Okinawa. He is in Iraq and his family is in MIss.
We have sent in our donation to the Salvation Army and are gathering clothes to give to our local shelter.
I would love to take in a displaced pet.....we'll see on that one.
Let's come together in this crisis.
I don't believe that the looting had a thing to do with the race of the looters. Looting occurs whenever law enforcement breaks down, and often in the wake of a disaster. Were the people who looted the homes of the rich and the museums in Baghdad black? There was looting after the tsunami. There is looting after major earthquakes all over the world. There isn't as much press coverage of that, simply because our media has the funds and means to get to the disaster area here, and take pictures. They don't bother for foreign disasters, because of the lack of reader or viewer interest.
I don't think racism had anything to do with the poor response. But I can completely understand frustrated victims thinking that.
I think class may have in the sense that planners didn't take into account people who didn't have the means to get out.
Overall though, stupidity and a firm resolve to ignore possible disasters were the biggest factors.
I just saw an interview with the NO mayor , Ray Nagin where he responded to the racial question.
Shortly after the disaster he directed many evacuees to attempt to walk out of New Orleans toward I10 and asked FEMA to drop suppies on the highway where helicopters might land.
http://www.nola.com/newslogs/tporleans/index.ssf?/mtlogs/nola_tporleans/archives/2005_09.html
"Some observers have said that because the majority of storm evacuees are black, the lethargic disaster response has a racist component. But Nagin cast the color issue in another light. "I think it's more a class issue than race," he said. "The Superdome had mostly poor people in distress. The rich have resources the poor don't. The Convention Center was different. There the poor were mixed with people from hotels and predators. You had blacks, Hispanics, Asians. The predators in there didn't care. When those stories come out, like children raped, with their throats cut, then somebody's got to answer."
Nagin's ire began to rise anew as he recalled a foiled strategy to send able-bodied refugees over the Crescent City Connection to the high ground of the West Bank.
Mayor Ray Nagin criticized Jefferson Parish for closing the door to exhausted refugees who trudged over the Crescent City Connection to escape the ruined city and reach high ground on the West Bank.
"We were taking in people from St. Bernard Parish. If we had a bottle of water, we shared it. Then when we were going to let people cross the bridge, they were met with •••••••• dogs and guns at the parish line," said Nagin during an aerial tour of the city.
"They said, ’We’re going to protect Jefferson Parish assets.’ Some people value homes, cars and jewelry more than human life. The only escape route was cut off.
They turned them back at the parish line."
More from same page:
"Witnesses said a small riot broke out Wednesday when refugees saw rescuers in big trucks carting off white tourists by the dozens, leaving many black people to fend for themselves.
"You should have seen them gathering up white folks," said Kim Jackson, 39. "They had a big 18-wheeler with the National Guard walking alongside them. ... But they got us here like dogs."
I think it's both a race thing and a class thing, probably class a bit more. If you had money and connections, you found a way out, whether you're Xavier students (who got private buses to come via Jesse Jackson) or guests at fancy hotel (who "commondered/looted" antibiotices to take BEFORE they walked through the water to get to their private bus) or a member of the Spanish parliment (who was escorted out of the Superdome before anyone else).
The self sufficient continued to be self sufficient throughout this tragedy and the dependant on the govt continued to be dependant on the govt. And folks can be dependant on the govt bec they are poor and/or elderly and/or sick and/or disabled.
I think you maybe right Mommmie.
Well, it should have been no surprise to the local and state government that they had so many people that were considered "poor" and that they would have no place to go. I still think that because of their poor evacuation plan (or lack there of) is the main cause of all of this. If everyone had left the area and they would have had food and water at their shelters that they had set up, things would not be near as bad as they are today.
Haven't taken the time to read this whole thread, but I did read an article by Craig Martelle, a retired major in the US Marine Corps.
http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/05249/566101.stm
The folks in New Orleans who are perpetrating the violence and lawlessness are not that way because of low income or of race, but because they personally do not have any honor or commitment to higher ideals. The civil-rights leaders should be ashamed at playing the blame game.
The blame is on the individuals. The blame is on the society that allowed these individuals to develop the ideal that the individual is greater than the national pride he is destroying. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice was very clear in her comments that she was offended at those who suggested the suffering in New Orleans was prolonged because of race.
Thank you, Lisa. The ones perpetrating the violence are just *that* kind of person. I am glad you posted this.
Here's an op-ed piece from the Washington Post (another liberal rag) by Richard Cohen (very much a liberal writer), who says, in essence, that it was not racism - at least not racism on the part of George W. Bush that caused the slow and ridiculously inadequate response, but rather, plain, simple incompetence on multiple levels. http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/09/19/AR2005091901298.html
Mr. Cohen is very clear that he has been around and observed the President many, many times, and he would never believe that GWB is a racist.
Cohen's Column
Yeah, there were mistakes on many different levels, not just George W. Bush.
Thanks for the forewarning, Ginny.
Very interesting article.
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