I was reading on the general board from people who have had c-sections for one medical reason or another. There are many that described their recovery as much worse than my births. So the question is, why on earth would someone elect to have a c-section only because they dont want to go through labor or to have a little one on one specific day, when recovery, at least for some, really stinks.

I was in labor for about 18-24 hours with all my kids (for me it didnt get any quicker or better from the first), which is a longer labor and it was no walk in the park but I cant imagine trying to take care of a newborn and recover from surgery at the same time. I caught a horrible vomiting flu when my youngest was only 3 days old and if I had had a c-section I am sure I would have ended up back in the hospital with my stiches torn out.

I am not talking about unsucessful vbac, or med nec like baby having trouble or breach, or mom having trouble like to small or high blood pressure. I even understand if there was a military dh who is sent out on deployment. But I am talking about everyday run of the mill vanity c-section. And why would drs agree to them.

By Ginny~moderator on Wednesday, August 17, 2005 - 10:12 am:

Kris, from what I have read, a lot of times it is the doctor's suggestion rather than the mother's request. Some doctors don't like having to come out to the hospital at 2 a.m. if they can arrange to have all of their patients deliver between 9:00 and 5:00.

By Dawnk777 on Wednesday, August 17, 2005 - 11:01 am:

I never had a vaginal birth, so can't really compare, I suppose. I had a worse time recovering from the first one, than the second one. I know I lost more blood and my hemoglobin dropped further, with the first one, than the second one, which is maybe why I felt so dragged out for a while! I know I felt peppier, sooner, after that the second one and with the second one, it was easier to move around afterwards. With the first one, I got the doctor on call. Wtih the second one, I got my own doctor. He managed my labor, from afar, with the nurse calling for updates. He seemed to want to be involved with this one! I feel he did a better job with the surgery, too.

With both of my pregnancies, I had failure to progress. I don't think I would just choose to have a c-section, just for convenience of knowing when the birth was going to be. I tried a VBAC, but other things got in the way and it didn't happen.

What really matters is that I gave birth to two great kids and I didn't have any complications after the surgeries.

By Debbie on Wednesday, August 17, 2005 - 11:23 am:

When I was pregnant with my 2nd ds, my ob/gyn was very against doing a scheduled c-section if you were a good candidate for a VBAC. I was a good candidate, so he gave me all the necessary information and strongely urged me to have a VBAC. He even promised me that he would be there for the delivery if he could. From my research, I found that the % of complications from a vbac were less then complications from a c-section, so I decided to have a VBAC. My ob/gyn was great, and as he promised he made sure that he was there for the delivery even though he wasn't the doctor on call. I had a easy delivery and recovery and I am really happy he urged me to do it.

Now, my SIL had an ob/gyn that actually scheduled to induce her with her first ds. He wasn't even due until the following week, but her doctor was going on vacation??? So, he wanted her to deliver. I felt so bad for her. She was in labor for over 12 hours and nothing. They finally did a c-section. I was so upset for her because this was just ridiculous and unneccessary. Her doctor just tried to force her delivery when she wasn't ready yet.

Some ladies are not good candidates for a VBAC, so they have no choice. I think a lot of it has to do with the doctor. I know that it is a lot easier to have a scheduled date for delivery, but I don't understand why you would risk having major surgery for this. I guess since it is such a routine operation these days, maybe, woman don't really think of it as major surgery like they used too.

By Colette on Wednesday, August 17, 2005 - 12:02 pm:

I didn't read the other responses but I will tell you what several obs told me. When trying to do a vbac, there is a good chance of rupturing where you were cut the first time. The only way the know this is happening is when it actually starts to happen, there are no warning signs.

Personally, after viewing the natural childbirth videos when pregnant w/my first, I knew in my mind there was NO way I'd be able to go through that much pain, I actually started hyperventilating and had to leave.

Also, you are typically in the hospital - or at least this how it used to be - for at least 5 days after a csection - so that's 5 days you get to rest and have someone really help you with the newborn, so if you did happen to get the flu (that must have been awful) someone would be there to totally take care of you and the newborn.

I have never heard of someone being able to go in and request a csection because of vanity or convienence.

By Hlgmom on Wednesday, August 17, 2005 - 01:41 pm:

I have always had issues with elective c-sections- but then I am major proponent for natural childbirth. Personally- I think it is a little selfish to subject the baby to any potential risks through unnecesary surgery with an elective cesarean. I am all for medical neccesity- but unfortunately there is a growing number of women who are going in to their doctors and requesting this procedure! There is also an alarming rise in doctor elected c-sections due to non medical neccesity. Not to mention that having an epidural greatly increases your risk of c-section due to the impact on the baby's heart rate!
In terms of VBACS the percentage of women who do actually have complications is very low- lower than the percentage of women that have complications from a c-section!
95% of women are good candidates for normal, healthy, non medically assisted births!
Geez- can you tell I feel strongly about this- I will shut up now!

By Tink on Wednesday, August 17, 2005 - 02:00 pm:

I haven't read the other responses yet, but my first birth was an emergency c-section. I was put under a lot of pressure by my OB to have my ds as a repeat C-section and caved into his pressure, basically out of ignorance. I really wish I'd had a VBAC with him. I found out, while in the hospital recovering, that my OB flew to Italy the night of my ds's birth for vacation. I am still very upset that he put that kind of pressure and guilt trip on me, just so that my ds's birth didn't interfere with his vacation plans. My youngest dd was another c-section because the ultrasounds gave us reason to believe that she had hydrocephalus and wouldn't be able to withstand the trauma of a natural birth. I am so thankful that she is fine, and that, regardless of how she was born, she is healthy. The only c-section I truly regret, and wish I'd been more educated on, was my middle birth. I would go back and change that in a heartbeat.

Two friends have recently scheduled "vanity" sections and I really don't understand it. One is a repeat who says that she didn't have to go through labor the first time and doesn't think she could handle the pain well enough this time to bother with it. The other wants the baby born on the same day as her deceased mother and didn't want to take the chance of an induction taking more than a day. She is that determined to have the baby on her mother's birthday. She planned her conception around this date also. I don't understand either friend's mindset. It just doesn't make sense to me, to expose your baby and yourself to that kind of risk, when most women's bodies are designed for this exact event.

By Kaye on Wednesday, August 17, 2005 - 04:30 pm:

I think once you have had one c section that studies can really go either way. I am not sure what I would have done. I wouldn't think it was vanity, honestly I have an appey scar that is half of what a section scar is, and EWWW!

Some people's bodys aren't designed to give birth, so that is why the first section has to be done. In the old days more people died in birth for reasons like that!

By Colette on Wednesday, August 17, 2005 - 04:40 pm:

I think the only thing that really matters is that the baby and the mother are healthy and happy. How the baby comes into the world is secondary to that.

By Dawnk777 on Wednesday, August 17, 2005 - 07:19 pm:

I stayed 4 days after both of mine. With the first one, we had trouble getting started with breast-feeding and I was appreciative of help getting her latched on. With the second one, I think they would have liked me to go home in 3 days, but I got an infection and they were treating Emily for it, too, so I think we got to stay an extra day because of that.

By Missmudd on Wednesday, August 17, 2005 - 07:29 pm:

I guess part of my confusion are doctors selling c-sections?

I know that with my 4 births afterwards I literally was up and putting around within the hour. I had very little to no pain, only on the 4th did I have cramping for a day or two and that was only like moderate menstral pain that I controlled with normal tylenol. And I think my experience is most likely the norm. So why subject yourself to a surgery which leaves a scar, lays you up for a few days on heavy duty pain meds, doesnt effectivly clear babies lungs, and could actually kill you if you got an infection if you dont have to.

I have heard various reports that the reason is that women are afraid of the pain of labor, I just dont understand the trade off of 24 hours of labor and you are done, or quite a few days of pain and the risk.

By Hlgmom on Wednesday, August 17, 2005 - 08:56 pm:

PLenty of docs are selling c-sections for their own convenience- the "get em in, get em out mentality!"

By Dawnk777 on Wednesday, August 17, 2005 - 09:16 pm:

I wouldn't have chosen that route, if things had worked out differently!

By Pamt on Wednesday, August 17, 2005 - 09:59 pm:

Well, a lot of doctors also prefer C-sections because of malpractice insurance. Malpractice insurance for OB-GYNs is astronomical, probably over 6 figures/year now and if not, then pretty darn close. There is a much lower risk of being accused/charged with medical malpractice with a C-section than with a vaginal delivery. Everything from cerebral palsy, brachial plexus, broken collar bones, etc. can occu with a vaginal delivery and most doctors want to avoid that. And with our highly ligitious society, I can't really fault them on that. The Berman sister that is the urologist choose to have an elective C-section because she supposedly seen all of the bladder, urinary, sexual problems that vaginal delivery can cause. That I think it a bunch of hooey!

By Hlgmom on Wednesday, August 17, 2005 - 10:12 pm:

I think that is part of the problem with doctors delivering babies in general instead of midwives! They have lost sight of the natural, beauty of childbirth and turned it into a medical situation. Again- I am all for medical neccesity-but lets focus on childbirth as the life changing experience that it is, not an illness! (not all docs are this way, but unfortuantely a growing number are giving all a bad name!)

By Emily7 on Wednesday, August 17, 2005 - 10:25 pm:

I don't know if it is the doctors that are willing electing to not do vbacs as much as it is the insurance companies that cover the doctors & hospitals malpractice insurance. At he hospital here they are no longer allowed to do vbacs because of the "risk" to mother & child. My OB/GYN felt it should be up to the mothers, but she is no longer given that right...so she is no longer an OB. I imagine the number of frivolous lawsuits have a lot to do with this problem.

By Reds9298 on Wednesday, August 17, 2005 - 10:45 pm:

I disagree with elective c-sections, where there is no medical reason (for either mom or baby) and it's just a 'scheduling' thing. I had a somewhat rare disorder (HELLP Syndrome) in the last few weeks of my pregnancy, along with some cervical issues, heart rate probs in baby, and a later discovery that due to the position of my baby I could not have delivered her vaginally, so I had a c-section. Because of the risk of all of those things, I would not try to deliver naturally if I were to have another child. Primarily because of my risks for the original problems, but also because my ob/gyn told me the same thing Colette said about possible rupturing during birth. My doc said there's about a 50% chance of that happening, no warning sign, nothing they can do about it and the baby dies, period.
I would never have a c-section for a non-medical reason, but since I did I also consider advantages to a c-section: no vaginal probs or recovery and no urinary/organ problems from pushing. My sister is 37, 2 kids, and has had 2 surgeries for bladder problems and other organs that "moved down" during her two vaginal births. Her specialists have ALL told her this is the cause. She is on medication and has to wear incontinence pads because she leaks all day. What a way to live at 37! So I wouldn't have a c-section because of that fear, but since I did it's just one more thing I'm grateful I don't have to worry about.

By Feona on Thursday, August 18, 2005 - 07:05 am:

I read someone was a outdoor hunting guide. She scheduled both or her kids between mountain lion hunting tours. She shot a moose three days before she gave birth.

By Crystal915 on Thursday, August 18, 2005 - 04:14 pm:

I plan on having another C-section. My first was because Shane (being twin A) was breech, and I was glad. I don't think it's anyone else's business how you delivery your baby, besides you and your doc. I hate hearing how horrible it is to not try for a vaginal birth, and then there are those who say "Natural!!!" and shove it down your throat. I'll take my scheduled c-section, and if I don't make it to that date I will have a c-section when I go into labor. As long as my doctor, my husband, and I are all comfortable with it, who cares?

By Pamt on Thursday, August 18, 2005 - 08:11 pm:

Well...one reason to care about elective, convenience C-sections would be because it raises my insurance premiums. Now in your case Crystal, with twins and a prior C-section you may not even be a candidate for VBAC if you wanted one. But a C-section for convenience or vanity? I end paying for.

By Missmudd on Thursday, August 18, 2005 - 08:28 pm:

And the risk and the pain and the cost of the c-section. Vaginal birth isnt THAT bad.

I would never say that c-sections are not necessary but I dont understand why you would VOLUNTARILY put yourself through that.

By Mrsheidi on Thursday, August 18, 2005 - 10:18 pm:

I've never heard of a person PLANNING a C section for their first child. Is this what you are talking about?
If it's a second child, and you already had a C section, then I would understand because it's more dangerous with a VBAC.
I don't think they do a planned C section for first borns...maybe a planned induction?

By Reds9298 on Thursday, August 18, 2005 - 10:26 pm:

I've definitely heard about planned c-sections for first babies. I read articles about it while I was pregnant...it's a big controversy. Women who plan the birth around work schedules, vacations, other birthdays or anniversaries....it's ridiculous.

By Emily7 on Thursday, August 18, 2005 - 10:27 pm:

I had a planned c-section for my first, but that was because he had a birth defect. I can't imagine having a c-section for the first time that was not medically necessary.

By Crystal915 on Friday, August 19, 2005 - 12:47 pm:

Well, one could say it raises insurance premiums, but in my case I could have been discharged the next day (kids were born at 9:09 and 9:11 pm) they kept me longer because they were having trouble keeping their temps up. Pam, you may be right, I don't think I'd be a prime candidate for a VBAC, but I'm also just not interested in one. I realize that many people have to stay a few days, but there are lots of things that people do that cost everyone money (overeat, smoke, etc). I don't know of many docs that will do voluntary C-sections for the first birth. They wanted me to attempt a vaginal birth if Shane didn't turn, I was thinking "Are you people NUTS?" I do agree that malpractice suits have made docs more likely to say OK to a c-section, and that isn't right. The same doc would be reluctant to induce on a certain day to work around schedules, but will operate for the same purpose? Insane.

By Heaventree on Sunday, August 21, 2005 - 06:06 pm:

I haven't read all of the posts, however, Doctors get paid more for C-Sections then they do for VBAC or so it is here in Canada. In the province of Ontario doctor's receive about $380 dollars for a normal VBAC delivery, not sure what the fee is for C-sections, however at our hospital when certian doctors are on call the rate of C-Sections increases quite significantly.

As for women who want c-sections I think they are just afraid of going thru labour. My first experience was horrible and almost everything that could go wrong did. I was thankful that I did not have to have a c-section, I think we were just minutes away. I have since come to terms with that and am hoping for a drug free delivery this time.

By Hlgmom on Sunday, August 21, 2005 - 06:16 pm:

Good Luck Heaventree! I hope you get the birth experience you are hoping for!
There are alot of hospitals where certain docs track higher C-section rates!
Where I used to live their was a practice that had a 50% C-section rate- ABSURD!!

By Annie2 on Sunday, August 21, 2005 - 07:11 pm:

With my second baby the fetal monitor wasn't working properly. It was in a Navy teaching hospital. At one point they had me naked, on all fours being wheeled to the delivery room for a C. My dh told the "doctor" to order in a new fetal monitor 1st. They did and it worked properly. The baby was perfect, not in distress and I delivered her naturally with a minimun of pain relief.

Sometimes I think the docs rely too much on modern medicine and not their gut instincts. Having an advocate for the mom in the room is a big plus in my book, too.

By Kim on Sunday, August 21, 2005 - 08:47 pm:

A little OT, but

They also sell epidurals and that really made me angry. I had a nurse that was pressuring me constantly. I finally had to yell at her and tell her to leave me alone! She wanted to know why I was so against them.....yeah, lets debate while I am in labour! I know a lot of women who had never had a baby and they decided right off to have the epidural. I encouraged them to wait and see how labour would be first! I don't understand that one myself, but that is me. I had mine with nothing and was determined to do so.

By Hlgmom on Sunday, August 21, 2005 - 10:11 pm:

I totally hear you Kim! I had my midwife write specific intstructions that I was not to be asked if I wanted meds- only if I asked for them. And still there was a nurse who was like "are you sure..." So irritating!

By Kaye on Monday, August 22, 2005 - 12:25 am:

Oh, I loved my EPI! With my first I choose to have one because I had been in labor for 2 days, not painful, but defintely uncomfortable. I was tired and scared. When I got to the hospital and they asked, I said sure. I got a great nap, watched some TV and then literally delivered the baby, pain free. The ended up having to remove her with forceps and I had a huge tear (she got stuck on my pelvic bone, head shape vs bone shape issue). I can't imagine how painful that would have been. Child two, long story, induced labor gone bad, no drugs, horrible pain, still no drugs, delivered completely naturally. WELL come baby three they couldn't get me to hospital without a promise for an epi...really. I have a high tolerance for pain, but for me the benefits way out weighed the risks. i just don't see any point in being a martyr!

By Kim on Monday, August 22, 2005 - 07:57 am:

Kaye, I don't think having babies without meds is being a martyr at all. I wanted my children to be born with nothing in their systems and more importantly I truly wanted to experience the birth process in its entirety. I wanted to feel what I was supposed to feel! Maybe if I had spent two days in labour I would have changed my mind. I also didn't want to deal with the risks of having something put into my spine.


It just makes me ill that women have already been talked into epidurals on their first child when they don't even know what its going to be like!

By Kaye on Monday, August 22, 2005 - 09:14 am:

I guess this is one of those things people just see differently. I had no fear of a needle in my back, no desire to feel "what I am supposed to feel". In my mind we have the gift of medical technology why not take advantage of it. Also after doing lots of research I decided that the side effects of an epi (for the baby) are much less severe than taking meds while pg, or demerol, which so many people choose natural births still take, to take the edge off. Birth is painful, it is called labor for a reason. Each person has to decide for themselves what is the right choice. For me it will be an epidural forever!

By Dawnk777 on Monday, August 22, 2005 - 10:17 am:

Oh, I got to feel it all right, with Emily, moreso than Sarah. I was begging for that epidural! LOL!

By Karen~moderator on Monday, August 22, 2005 - 11:23 am:

I had vaginal deliveries with J & J, but with Jeff, a C-section was definitely warranted. He was face up instead of face down and I was in labor for 3 days. However, *back then*, they did not do ultrasounds regularly, though they certainly should have done one when I was in labor with Jeff.

A little background though - I had pre-eclampsia and started going into labor the beginning of July - he was due the end of September. I was hospitalized for one week, given IV meds to stop the labor, then sent home on total bed rest, restricted diet and meds to prevent me from going back into labor. Only, those meds had awful side effects which I had to take MORE meds to counteract - around the clock. We had clocks set all hours of the day and night. I felt horrible. About 6 weeks before his due date, my OB weaned me off those meds. It was only a few days before I started contracting again.

He was due on Sept. 30. On Sept. 6 I went to the hospital, then again on the 7th, and they sent me home both nights telling me it was *false labor*. I didn't sleep, I was contracting regularly, etc. On Sept. 8th I went and they kept me in L & D, pumped me full of Seconal and Morphine - to *stop the contractions* and let me get some sleep - and they had planned to send me back home in the morning. 4 hours later I was still having strong, painful contractions and was wide awake. They gave me another dose of each. 15 minutes later my water broke. I *knew* all along this was the real deal.

My blood pressure was high, I had not slept in 3 days, I was in pain, I was grateful to get that epidural! However, several hours later my baby wouldn't move down any further. Everyone around was *inside* me - I felt like the Lincoln Tunnel at rush hour. They literally had me pushing in a number of positions for 9 or 10 hours *to bring the baby down*. They called in 2 other OB's, they then kept speaking of *the tumor on the baby's head*. By then my temp was 102, I was dehydrated, and practically delirious - it was clear something was wrong.

All these idiots never once suggested doing an u/s to see what was going on. Then his heart rate changed and they rushed me off to do an emergency C-section. When I was prepped the doc said we'd try once more to get him out vaginally. Two nurses literally pushed him down and out - I was too exhausted to do anything.

Baby comes out - face UP - the bridge of his nose was the *tumor* they kept talking about, he is rushed to NICU - his entire face from the lip up is bruised purple and swollen, having trouble breathing, had to have a feeding tube. Ped. kept talking to me about possible brain damage, etc. And for me, my *bottom* was so swollen from all the pushing and trauma.

Bottom line - this was clearly a case of needing a C-section. Some would have jumped on the malpractice bandwagon - Lord knows, it probably was a good case and I actually considered it because I think everyone screwed up. But what would have been the point? Sure, I may have gotten money, but *if* my baby had been brain damaged, or permanently damaged otherwise, the money wouldn't have *fixed* it.

As it happens, he ended up being perfectly healthy and smart, the only lasting effects were a scar on his upper lip where the skin had actually been *cut* through by my pelvic bone contracting on it for 12 hours, and his gums were very bruised - *mashed* is the word that comes to mind - and the other lasting effect was it affected his baby teeth, which is a whole other story.

BUT - and I am finally getting to my point here - when I was carrying Jen, and had preeclampsia as well, I actually considered a scheduled C-section, because I was terrified of going through the same thing again. I ended up on total bed rest with her the last 3 months - which was no easy feat with 2 pre-teens and 1 toddler in the house.

There didn't appear to be any medical reasons for a scheduled C-section, but I did not want to go through the same thing again and was begging my doc to do a C-section on me. He refused to do it *just because I wanted it*, but he did induce me a few weeks before her due date because of all the problems with the contractions and blood pressure, etc.

And BTW, I had an epi with Jen also, and for me, I wouldn't have considered NOT having one with either child.

So - now that I've taken this totally off-topic, I will comment:

a) Docs DO make more money for C-sections, as do hospitals, obviously.
b) I can understand in some cases why a woman would choose to have an elective C-section, but please know that I don't agree with doing that *for the sake of convenience*.
c) As for the recovery period, it's abdominal surgery, and as in any abdominal surgery, you have muscles that were cut through, etc., and obviously the recovery is painful and slower than a vaginal birth.

My first vaginal delivery was a nightmare, I *should* have been sectioned - it would have been better for me, and certainly better for Jeff. However, despite my fears of that being repeated, my 2nd vaginal birth was a breeze in comparison, though I did have an epidural. My opinion is that if you can experience the vaginal birth, with or without an epidural or whatever, it's a wonderful experience. But then, that's just my opinion....LOL

By Dawnk777 on Monday, August 22, 2005 - 09:34 pm:

Karen, Emily was face-up with the cord around her neck a couple of times. I'm REALLY glad I had her c-section. She was starting to have heartbeat problems, so we decided to go ahead with it. If having a vaginal birth meant having your experience, I didn't want it. As it was, my temp went up to 102.7, and we both were on antibiotics afterward. The doctor said I would have never gotten her out. So, I'm glad I was able to have the c-section. I suppose if I was a pioneer woman, I might not have had such a good outcome.

By Monicamomof3 on Monday, August 29, 2005 - 09:42 pm:

I had my first two AT HOME!! My first baby was 10lbs 1oz and my second was 9lbs. 12oz. After laboring at home, we ended up in the hospitial and my third baby was taken via c-section. It should've never happened (lawsuit pending).

I'll have to say: my labor with 1st=34hours of BACK LABOR and 3 hrs 20 min pushing! The midwives monitored every second and I worked and worked until I delivered a healthy baby.

THE RECOVERY OF A C-SECTION: OMG!!!!!!!!!! It was horrific compared MY vaginal deliveries. (IMO)

I am now almost 8 weeks preg. with my 4th child and I will have the baby in the hospital. I am shooting for a successful VBAC!

After weighing the risk of a c-section and a VBAC, it is an absolute no brainer that the VBAC is the much more conservative approach. The statistics and medical facts are on my side!

I dread the nurse that tries to "sell" me an epidural! LOL! AIN'T GONNA HAPPEN!

I like my babies to be awake with their little eyes open when they are born. My third baby was impossible to wake up from all the drugs in her system from the c-section.

That's just the opinion from a hombirthin', breastfeedin' mama! HA!

By Hlgmom on Monday, August 29, 2005 - 11:03 pm:

You go girl! (Monica) So you found a hospital that will do VBACS...thank goodness- my friend is desperatly trying to have one and will have to drive several hours to get to a hospital to do it!! Unbeleiveable- what a travesty!

By Monicamomof3 on Wednesday, August 31, 2005 - 04:46 pm:

Well- I researched Houston to find a Hospital with a high vbac rate. Then, I contacted a well know and respected midwife (she's delivered 1,400 babies!)and she recommended her back up doctor who actually delivers at this hospital.

We'll see. I have my first apt. in about 5 weeks. I'll let you know how it goes.

oh your friend: tell her to got the ican.com website. They helped me out some. They may have some info. for dr.'s in her area. Email me at carpenterhome@houston.rr.com and I'll tell you a few for things that may help her.