Christian adoption agency refuses Catholic couples, conflict with "Statemen of Faith"
Moms View Message Board: The Kitchen Table (Debating Board): Christian adoption agency refuses Catholic couples, conflict with "Statemen of Faith"
http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/07/15/adoption.church.ap/
This is the link to the article on CNN - I've read it in a couple of places. This is a local adoption agency which is part of a national chain, and each office is affiliated with a specific religious body, though not all with the same body. This particular office has turned down at least two Catholic couples, saying that Catholicism does not agree with the agency's Statement of Faith.
I'm putting this on the debate board because it is religious in nature.
Opinions / reactions?
I'll have to find more info on this to give more of an opinion, but one thing I feel will not change. It should be up to the birth parents to make that kind of decision, not the adoption agency. If they are fine with the adoptive parents being Roman Catholic, that's all that should matter.
We adopted our first daughter privately, and her birth mom is Catholic. She knew that we were Anglican, and that did not affect her decision.
Our second adoption was through one of the provincial Catholic Children's Aid Societies. They could have chosen to place her with a Catholic family, but instead chose the best family for her. Religion is one part of her life, but there were big issues that needed to be dealt with. Being Catholic would not have made us better able to deal with those issues.
I'm going to look into this more tomorrow, when I'm wide awake.
Well I guess my initial thought is they are a private organization and can do what they please. There are lots of other organizations to adopt from. There are Jewish adoptions places that only adopt to other Jewish people. Religion is important to me and if I had to put a baby up for adoption that would be the main thing I looked at, so to find an agency that would place based on a religion makes sense to me. At least they were up front and honest about it to the people adopting and I would assume the adoptees.
I don't know if I have a well thought out opinion, but my initial reaction is pretty similar to Kaye's. Private organizations can set their own rules and as long as they are up front about it I don't really have a problem. Like Kaye, faith was the the most important issue in choosing guardians for me children. I didn't care about denomination, but they had to have a growing faith and be part of an evangelical Protestant church with basic doctrinal beliefs like our own. Even if someone I loved dearly and could trust implicitly with my children was RC I wouldn't have them be guardians just because I have too many divergent beliefs from the Catholic faith. However, being in SE Louisians I have lots of Catholic friends.
I rememer when I was a nine year old catholic girl I was taking bible lessons from a lovely seven day adventist. They had the best bible vacation camp too. (all my friend were going to her house everyday for lessons.) Really fun and the lady was really nice.
She told me that praying to Mary was wrong because Mary wasjust a person. She also said something about idols and statues and maybe the pope. My mom got very upset and said I couldn't take bible lessons from the nice lady any more when I rushed home to tell her not to pray to Mary any more because she was just a person.
Eventually my other catholic girlfriend stopped going and my buddest frients too stopped going. The moms said the teaching was going against their religion.
So I guess I knew about the controversy since I was nine years old.
So I learned at nine years old that some people believe only their religion is correct. And of course they don't want their children raised in a home that goes against their beliefs. So that must be the christian adoption agencies belief.
Unless they are more extreme and think that Roman Catholic church is blasphany or a cult. I think some people think the Roman Catholic church is a cult because of the pope. I forget.. something about the pope being infallible... The reasons I remember hearing are the Pope and praying to the saints instead of Jesus, and idols and statues - not studing the bible without a priest or nun to help interpret(my mother told me that last one). I think I remember there was an arguement about confession too... whether or not a third party should get in the middle of confessing to God or not. There must be 1000 things I can't remember. Anyway those are powerful differences of opinion. I think I heard huge controvesy about sacrements too.
My friend was getting married in the catholic church... She was not catholic but born again christian. She wanted to take the sacrement... Can't remember if she did...
At least one of her bride maids refused to go to the wedding last minute because she thought that was blasphemy. taking sacrement without going through the the sacrements... What is it Baptism - confession - communion ....... I don't know what the priest said about her taking the communion. So there is an example of the roman catholic thinking the protestant was doing blasphamy.
How do I feel about it? You could probably pick apart any denomination if you really wanted to with references to the bible or prophet.
I shouldn't have even brought up the blashemy and cults. I was stupid to bring up.
I can understand that people don't want their children raised in a different denomination. I mean if there was a fight over taking the sacrement... then anything could be a reason.
Actually now I think about it. These all are christian religions: Jesus centered, God center
and Jesus as a prophet but not god, Jesus as only a teacher with some other prophet being the main focus.
Bible as word of god, bible as a guide interpreted many ways with each one having a different idea of what is going to send you to hell. Prophet based book.
Those are a major difference of opinion. Actually hardly even the same idea or religion. And of course the penalty of being wrong might be eternal damnation and hell if God or Jesus isn't all merciful.
No wonder there is so much controvesy about this.
I also know of two protestant churches - split the denominations. They wouldn't allow the other denomination to get married in their church - they were bitter about the split it.
One denomination met in Hunter College Auditorium (huge congregation.) No church building.
The other denomination had the beautiful building.
I definitely think they were throwing around words like blasphany to each other when they split. The two sections couldn't even pray with each other in the same building because of a difference of opinion about if the bible could be taken as "the word of God" or could be interpreted and taken as a guideline instead. Obviously a big difference of opinion.
If it is a private organization they can do what they like, but if they are getting money from sources that are Roman Catholic, or non-denominational, then that's another matter.
In my opinion, it's a shame these "Christians" are so intolerant of the religion that started it all, and a faith that is front and center with anti-abortion lobbying. One mainline protestant church openly supports abortion rights.
I find this attitude a lot with my husband's family, that they view Roman Catholics as somehow not Christian. The last time I looked we all believed the same basic things ... They are all born again and look at my husband and I as though we have no faith or that we are going to hell.
I'm glad, Pam, you are blessed with so many good people in your life that you could decide to give your children to one family and not another based on their being of a different Christian denomination.
Let me tell you what happened to my nephew in just such a situation.
When my sil died, we wanted to take in my nephew. My FIL was adamant that he be raised in a "good Christian household" and that he should live with his aunt and uncle who are both born again. I eventually got over being offended.
In that "good, Christian household" my nephew was emotionally abused and browbeaten by the "head of the household". My sil actually let my bil throw my newphew out of the house without a word to anyone, because she had to submit to the will of her husband ...
Now, where would he have been better off? Here, where he might have had to endure mass once a week, or there, where he was bullied and mistreated, but living in a "good, Christian home"?
There are many factors to consider when thinking about who you would want to raise your children, and this includes children a woman gives up for adoption.
Better the person lives a good life, and truly loves the child, no matter the religion, than just talks a good talk.
Ame
Ditto Ame.........
Very well said Ame.
Ame, you are right.
I just wanted to know, what about all the different Christian denominations? Aren't all of them a bit different anyway?
I know where they are coming from as one of my sisters is a born again Christian and i consider myself a Christian also. However, Catholicism is not all completely wrong or mistaken and i know many catholics that are more Christian than many "born again Christians".
For what i think is that all these denominations are "man-made" depending of who gave it a name and why. In Britain and in Italy many Catholics call themselves Christians without the slightest knowledge that they might be mistaken. They call themselves Christians because they believe in Jesus Christ as their saviour and as the way to God. They don't go saying i am a Roman Catholic...
I just re read my post. Obviously this is a very emotional issue for me. I don't want to offend anyone who is born again, or to come off as saying that all born again households are the way my sil's household is.
I just meant to say that you have to make sure the child and the household are a good fit in many more ways than just religion.
And it would be nice if all Chrisitans could focus on what unites us, rather than the, as Maria point out, "man made" doctrinal issues that divide us.
Maria, as far as I know and have been taught, if you believe in Christ and have been baptised or dedicated, you are a Christian. So yes, Roman Catholics are Christian.
Ame
Ame, I totally agree that the child and the household have to be a good fit in many more ways than religion. For me, a 2-parent household with similar views about discipline, medical care, education, etc. are all key as well and *almost* just as important. However, in the scenario you described above I would definitely pick loving RC guardians over not-practicing-what-they-preach Protestants. I wasn't saying that religious beliefs should be the ONLY criteria at all...just an important one, at least for me. And there are plenty of Protestants and Catholics who go warm a pew once a week without their faith making any difference at all in their lives. For me, it has to be actively lived out. That doesn't mean they are perfect, since none of us are, but striving to make good choices and live a life pleasing to God.
I don't agree with what Feona posted. Catholicism is not a cult nor is it blasphemous. As Maria posted, Catholics are Christians as well as long as they believe in Jesus Christ as their personal Lord and Savior--the same goes for Protestants. There is certainly more that unites us rather than divides us. My main comment was to say that if I could pick out the "perfect" substitute parents for my children, then I would want their theological and doctrinal beliefs to be as similar to mine as possible. That means that an evangelical Christian who was a member of charasmatic church that speaks in tongues (unbiblically---but that's a whole different debate or preached a prosperity gospel wouldn't fit the bill either. In basic beliefs, (trinity, sinless Saviour, resurrection, way of salvation, etc.) Protestants and Catholics are very similar, but the issue of saints, Mary, etc. is where the beliefs become quite divergent.
In rethinking my original post...if the adoption agency is a CHRISTIAN adoption agency, then they should consider Catholic families the same as Protestant families. However, if it is a Protestant organization, then I can more readily understand the qualifications. Ideally, adopting children into loving homes should be the ultimate goal.
P.S. Ame, that's horrible about your nephew. Is he still with that family? What has happened to him now?
I don't think roman catholics were a cult or blasphany. I said some people think they are. And I definitley don't think anyone on the board thinks that. Now I think of it I have heard blasphany and cult thrown around about several denominations.
Google it if you never heard this before. I thought it was common knowledge. But I am from New York City - the big melting pot where everyone is a different religion.
My mother and sil and bil are roman catholic. I should know better than to talk about religion. Sticking my big fat food in my mouth.
Sorry, I even heard this sort of stuff from people preaching on the train.
If you want to read more about debate in the issue you can google it to read about the strong feeling.
But this must be the reason behind the adoption agency not wanting catholics. And they would never admit it in public. I think.
What other reason could it be they don't want catholics?
But now I think about it they could dislike one thing about the catholic religion or a protestant denomination religion and don't want their kids indoctrinated to even a part of the Catholic religion or the seven day adventists or the mormoms or and other denomination of christianity you can name. Denomination is a perfectly good reason for picking someone to raise your child.
But I guess this really is a money issue. The adoption agency has to decide if wants Roman Catholics' money or not.
So I guess we will see.
I'll tell you in a nutshell why they don't want Catholics. Because deep down, there is a feeling that their brand of Chrisitanity is superior, and they have the only way to salvation.
I saw this at my sil's funeral service. Many people who testified, including the pastor made terrible remarks that only the people who were born again were going to heaven. And he did not mean the passage where Jesus spoke of being born again.
I felt really uncomfortable. I wanted to just get up and say, "Who are you, a flesh and blood human, to tell me who is going to heaven? I live my faith every minute of my life. Does it make me less worth of salvation because I am Catholic?"
I thought it showed a great lack of respect for the people in that room who were not born again.
As far as saints and Mary - yes it is Roman Catholic tradition that people who have gone before us, who lived the word of God in an extraordinary way are worth to follow and be role models. We don't pray to statues or idols.
My problem with many of these denominations is that they have to tear down others. If they are so great. If they really have the inside track on salvation, they should be able to attract followers without throwing stones at others. And boy do they! My fil actually had the nerve to give my husband a Chick Publication about the Roman Catholic Church. It was so full of lies, and twisted misinformation that I just laughed. Then, I got angry when I realized that people actually believe this stuff!
The only way we have peace in our family is to leave religion at the door.
More later abuot my nephew- thanks for asking, Pam.
Ame
Ame, I couldn't have said it better myself, you are so right on, and you took the words right out of my mouth!
http://www.catholic-pages.com/church/marks.asp
I think if you walk into another church besides your denomination and you have strong beliefs you will get upset because that is why they had the reformation and all the denominations split. The denomiations are still splitting more today. The denominations don't agree with each other about how to get into heaven or what is blasphemy.
I also went to a church which didn't use a bible and if mentioned God or Jesus you might offend someone... I went once with a friend. There was an ex nun reading from the Pooh book. There was good lesson in there about living.
I don't know if they ever mentioned God or Jesus in that church.
The main married pastor ran off with a member of the congregation. Of course the congregation didn't use the bible so they had an arguement about whether it was wrong or not. I think the pastor finally got the boot. But started another church...? I have to find that story.
BTW, here is a link to the statement of faith. There is not one thing in it that is contrary to the beliefs and practices of the Roman Catholic Church.
http://www.clarionledger.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050715/NEWS01/50715004/1002
There is also a little more in depth coverage of the story and a bit more information on the funding here
http://www.clarionledger.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050716/NEWS01/507160347/1002
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