New debate. - adoption
Moms View Message Board: The Kitchen Table (Debating Board): New debate. - adoption
How do you feel about this potential law? I am undecided. I can see both sides. Dh was adopted and we have no medical history at all, but I also knew girls in high school that gave their child up instead of having an abortion, that never wanted any contact.
BOSTON -- It's an emotional debate, with heart-wrenching stories on both sides -- should adopted children have legal access to their original birth certificates?
NewsCenter 5's Janet Wu reported Tuesday that since 1974, those documents have been sealed in Massachusetts. Now, there's a proposed bill on Beacon Hill to change the law.
Center Family Connections' Dr. Joyce Pavao remembers going to court when she was in her early 20s to ask a judge for her birth certificate.
"It makes you angry to think that something about you other people should have and you can't. This is the first document of my citizenship in the United States," she said.
Pavao had a sympathetic judge. But not all adoptees do. As a family therapist who counsels other children of adoption, Pavao discovered it is a random system of access.
"It is a civil right, and why should it be a secret? Everyone else has access to their own original birth certificate," she said
Sen. Susan Fargo, an adoptive mother, led the charge to change the law in Massachusetts. Fargo said her now-grown daughter spent years gaining access to her birth certificate.
"She found her birth mother. She is a wonderful woman and was at my daughter's wedding last spring," she said.
The bill, known as the ABC bill, makes original birth certificates available without a court order to adoptees when they are over 18 and to adoptive parents of younger children.
Birth parents have the right to attach a form to the birth certificate to indicate whether they want to be contacted but there's no guarantee that request would be honored. However birth parents would not have access to the child's adoptive identity.
"I would not be for an open records bill because of privacy. But access to your birth record is a civil right," Pavao said.
But opponents who have fought this battle in other states say this would trample a birth parent's privacy. They also fear open access to birth certificates could persuade some women to choose abortion over adoption.
But proponents say seven other states already have this law and in two of those states, Alaska and Kansas, which have always allowed access to original birth certificates without court order, the abortion rates are lower than the rest of the country while adoption rates are higher.
Ontario is going through the same thing right now, but the records will become completely open when the child reaches 18. I think it's a much needed bill, and it will benefit the majority of birth parents, and all of the adoptees. Most birth parents have been deeply hurt by the loss of their children, and would give anything to have contact. Most adoptees have a deep desire to know their roots.
Just to qualify what I'm saying, I run 2 adoption lists, and we have hundreds of members who are birth and adoptive parents and adoptees, so I'm getting my info right from the people involved.
As an adoptive mother, sister and aunt, I can tell you how wonderful open adoption is, and how hard the not knowing is. We now have a wonderful extended family of birth relatives for one of my kids and one of my brothers.
Still, this bill will not guarantee meetings, but in many cases I don't think that's the most important thing. Knowing your roots is very important for everyone.
The biggest debate, here, is whether or not there should be a veto, for people who don't want contact because of life or death situations. Also, should it be retroactive? Hopefully it will be, because there are so many women who were forced to give their children up in the 50's and 60's (as opposed to making an adoption plan as people normally do now), who desperately want to find those children.
I think adopted children should definitely have rights to their original birth certificates. I understand that there may be some birth parents who do not wish for their identities to be revealed, however I feel that the adopted person has an overriding right to know 'who' they are if they want to.
I agree with Marcia about the importance of knowing your roots.
I think a person who has been adopted does have the right to know his/her history, which means the original birth certificate. And, I think that adoption agencies should require a medical history of at least the mother and mother's family - that can be a really important set of facts for anyone. I also think that the person who gave up a child for adoption has the right to not be contacted if that is her wish. Unfortunately, some adoptees have, when they learned the identity of their birth parent(s), have forced a contact and have not accepted the birth parent's wish to not be contacted. Though I do believe that most women would want to have at least some contact with the child they had to give up.
Overall, I'm in favor of the laws. Our present laws about adoption - the not letting a person have their original birth certificate or know anything about their birth parent(s) - are partly based on the legal structure that says that children are property, and once the property rights transfer to another person the child is the adopting parents' property and has no rights in the matter.
Open adoption - that can, I suspect, be a mixed bag, depending on the stability and motives of the birth mother. But I would like to see it work and am glad to know that at least some of the time it does.
Hmmmm...first impression is that I'm opposed. I do think it would increase abortions but that's just my opinion. I also think all adoptions should include a medical history without disclosing any names. Many times the father is unknown so it's often a one sided history, but better than nothing. I'm all for some sort of third party keeping track of birth parents and adopted child for any future contact that is desired, but the contact should go thru the third party who then asks the other if they WANT the contact. But I don't think the birth parents should live in constant fear that their names are going to be revealed and they be tracked down. If both child and birth parents want that, like I said, there should be some third party method.
I'm not adopted so I don't know anything about needing to know one's roots and my two adopted niece and nephew are toddlers so I haven't traveled very far on the adoption road yet to know how they will someday feel. I just know that it was probably a tough decision for the birth parents to make and a law that forces them to lose their privacy doesn't seem quite fair.
Kate, so many things are different these days. I don't know anything about the adoptions in your family, so can't comment on that. I do know that these days birth moms/parents typically choose an adoption plan for their children, and they have complete say in who will parent their children. Obviously that's not the case when kids are taken for reasons of abuse, etc, but for most infant adoptions it is. The birth parents of today often want open adoption, or at least some degree of openness. It's some of the people who kept things a secret in times when it was shameful who want to keep their secret. Still, the kids didn't do anything to be put in the situation of not knowing their roots, and shouldn't suffer because of it.
Birth parents are required to give a social history, which includes medical info. Being required to do it doesn't mean you tell the truth or even know all of it. Also, a family's medical history can change in a minute.
I have been receiving so many news articles on this every day, in Ontario. It's a hot issue right now!
I was adopted by my dad, I know who my biological father is, I have even met him once. Even with all of that information I can not get a copy of my original birth certificate. I think that is wrong.
I guess I don't understand what difference an original birth certifcate makes? I guess I have mine somewhere, butnever really looked at it. I guess it was used to register me for school.
I have a BIL that was adopted, they have his birth certificate but the parents names are marked out.
As far as medical history goes, again I have my families history, but nothing in their has changed my life. sometimes it can, but then again in an adoption stuff like that is supposed to be passed on.
The issue of wanting to know roots. On all the boards, and email groups, those are people who want to know. But I would think there are just as many who don't care (i have a friend like that). It just doesn't make a difference to her.
We are looking into adoption and are trying to decide if we will and if so here or international, and honestly international looks better all the time. If I choose to adopt a child I want it to be MINE, all mine, to love and raise and support forever. I don't want to worry about sharing with a different mom down the road. I know there are people who give up babies because they want a better life, one they can't handle right now, but if you choose adoption I feel like you should be giving up all those rights.
I have a cousin who has adopted twice, one is an open adoption, she knows who the biological mom is, they have some contact (never alone though), one was supposed to be that way, but turns out she is a druggie and it was a big legal issue to have her removed from their lives.
Marcia, well I was referring to closed adoptions mostly. Altho, with one of the babies in my family they do send yearly updates and photos to the birth mom, but it is thru the agency (an example of a third party I advocated in my post) and all they know is her first name and the birth mom doesn't know my family's names, either. So there is a degree of openness about it, but it's still very private. The other adoption is more open than that and names are known. But basically I was referring to adoptions where the mom clearly has NOT asked for any degree of openness. Many birth moms do pick the families or have specific criteria, yes, but they still might not want contact or info or names given out. They just might want to pick a great family and feel better about giving the baby up that way. Commendable in my opinion, and I don't think they should be forced to have their names revealed on a birth certificate later on. JMO. 
BTW, I'm very selfish and agree with Kaye in that if I adopted I would NOT want any degree of openness (but I would like family history) because I would not want that birth mom entering our lives at any point. I would not want to 'share' the baby or feel jealousy. These are MY feelings, and would not necessarily reflect the feelings of the child I adopted! It's just my personal, selfish opinion.
With this kind of problems with adoption in the US. This is why my husband and I chose to adopt a little girl from China. We have heard to many bad stories about bio father hearing that they have children and the bio mother did not tell them. So, the bio father comes back after 5 to 6 years and wants the child back. Or you go thru the preg with the mother and she has the baby. She has 7 days after the birth of the baby before she goes before a judge to give up rights and the baby is living with you. Then she changes her mind. This was just to much of a hardship on us after loosing 12 babies and almost loosing my live with the last one. God blessed us with a son of our own, but our son and us wanted a brother or sister for him. So after looking in to adoption we decided to go international.
Kaye, many adoptees feel like second class citizens, because they don't have the same basic rights that the majority of the population has. You may not see the importance in having your original birth certificate, but for someone who has been denied that right, it can be a very big deal. The amended birth cert. has false birth info on it.
As I mentioned before, medical info is passed on, but that can change overnight. Many genetic problems occur in only some of the kids, but the other kids can be carriers. That info might not be known until other children are born. Birthmom might get breast cancer when the little girl is 5. Just a couple of examples of important info that can be missed.
The adoption lists I run are not made up of members who all think the same way. We have adoptees who feel both ways, birth parents who are happy with their choices, and those who are very bitter. We have adoptive parents who feel the way you do, and those who feel the way I do.
I went into adoption sure that I would never want an open adoption, but when I started to put my childrens' needs before my own, I realized it was the best thing for them. I watched my brothers growing up not knowing anything, and I listened to their feelings. I have a feeling that if you do choose to adopt, a lot of your feelings will change. I agreed to send pictures and updates, through or lawyer, for a year. When that year passed, I could not think of losing contact with the woman that made me a mother.
I would strongly suggest you join some adoption lists, if you haven't, to get a feel for domestic vs international adoption. Even some people involved in international adoptions are opting for openness. When you adopt internationally, there are so many other issues to deal with - new home, country, race (usually), language, etc. Many kids have attachment issues, because they have been living in orphanages. Don't get me wrong - I'm all for it. Just pointing out that distance might lessen one of the challenges, but many more come with it.
Kaye, I know an awesome domestic agency which is positively rabid about tracking down birth fathers and having them sign off their rights so they don't show up in a few years claiming ignorance and wanting the baby. It is very expensive, $45,000 total, but they are incredibly thorough. They specialize in healthy American infants. You can choose your level of involvement with the birth parents. If you're against any involvement you might wait longer for a baby than someone else who welcomes it, but you will still get a baby at some point as you go on a list. You can get picked off that list by a birth mom, but if you don't you still get a baby when your time on the list is up. Just some couples are on the list a shorter time than others depending on their circumstances, what they offer the baby, how they feel about open adoption, etc. But you WILL get a baby on YOUR terms if you wait long enough at this agency! If interested let me know. The people I know who used this agency each waited less than a year and each said they would send pics and letters for 18 years. That is not actual open involvement.
We are looking to adopt in the near future. We are looking at China as well! I would love the idea of having a family history, however, I am all for a closed adoption! There are some people who give up their children because they just don't want them but don't want an abortion. Could you imagine the disappointment in knowing that you were just plain unloved and not wanted. I am sure there are just as many who give up a baby to provide a better life for the child. There are people who have horror stories for roots! Why should a child have to know that if it can be helped? It really should be up to the birth parents to figure out what is best in each situation. If they want to be known later make their information known to the adoptive parents or an agency. If they don't then that should be thier right and maybe what is best for the child as well! JMO!!!
Don't ever lose sight of who is the most important in all of this. It's not the birth parents or adoptive parents, it's the child. You can't guess what will be important to that child 20 years from now (or 5 or 6 years). You need to be prepared to help your child in any way you can, and even though you adopt from China, you might find yourself visiting China several years from now, searching for roots. Please don't go into this with a closed mind.
Well said, Marcia.
And, knowing the health history of the birth parents can be incredibly important.
"There are some people who give up their children because they just don't want them but don't want an abortion. Could you imagine the disappointment in knowing that you were just plain unloved and not wanted"
This comment is really haunting me. I would think that anyone who didn't feel love for a child they were carrying would terminate the pregnancy, not make an adoption plan. There are so many reasons for making that plan, and so very many heart broken birthparents living the rest of their lives with that decision. Their love for their children is what helped them to make the choices they've made.
As an adoptive parent, I would certainly never let my children believe that their birthparents didn't love them. Even if we didn't have open adoptions, I would make sure they knew.
Before our adoptions were completely open, I rocked my crying 9 year old as she wondered about her birthfather - if he was dead or alive, if he wondered about her, if he loved her. It was heart wrenching. All I could do was reassure her that he did love her, and that we would find him. We did, within months, and you could not imagine the joy that she felt - that we all felt! It's all about her...
I think that if the birth parents are willing the birth cert should be open, if the birth parents are not willing the cert should be closed. No arguments, no tracking them down, no haunting them. I have not put up a child up for adoption but personally if it were me I dont think I could deal with wondering if they were just going to show up some day. While very antiabortion I could see that I might make a very wrong decision because of the anxiety of a child just showing up. If I felt the need to see or hear from them then I would have the choice to remove the block on the birth cert and see if they chose to contact me.
I have not been in the situation where I needed to consider adoption, but if I ever decided to adopt I know that it would have to be a closed adoption, for the same reason above. I could not imagine wondering when and if the birth parents would just show up, even if there is an arrangement for visiting or contact. Having them critiquing my parenting, dealing with the child with who is the *real* mom, since birth parents are not out of the picture. I just wouldnt want to do it. If you give up your child to adoption your rights to see or have any input are gone, otherwise you are like that old dr suess book where the elephant raises the egg and then the mom shows up and demands rights.
Kristin, open adoption doesn't necessarily mean the birth parents have all of your contact info. You can choose to do that, as we have, but not everyone does. It might just mean that there are updates and pictures sent, perhaps gifts exchanged at Christmas and birthdays, etc. It can be whatever you feel good about, and whatever works for your child.
There is absolutely no question about who the real mother is in our situation - we both are. She is the first mother, and I am the mom who is doing the full time mothering. She is Kathy, I am mommy. She is someone fun to see a couple of times a year, and I'm here for everything. There's not even a tiny bit of me that's threatened by that. It really works for us, and for so many people that I know.
As far as opening adoptions up later - both parties have to agree. The adoptee will be able to get nonidentifying information, but nothing else unless the bmom has agreed. That being said, either party could choose to do a private search.
Opening up the records to allow for access to birth certificates will give identifying info, but one of the things they're discussing is either party being able to put a veto on it, to stop direct contact. Anyone who goes against it will face a hefty fine.
Marcia I imagine that the difference between what you are comfortable and happy with and what I would be comfortable and happy with is the problem in mandating law to try to keep both groups happy. I am very happy that contact w/ the birth family and you have worked out so well but I am not sure that your story is a typical one. Like I said before I dont have any personal experience w/ adoption so I may be totally wrong but I just see so many ways that unsolicited contact could go horribly horribly wrong. Now if the parents or child has veto power like you said I say that it should go through. I certainly dont think that if all parties agree that there should be any roadblocks, including access to your birth cert. But even then once you open pandoras box you cant close it again so I would hope that there would be some discussion about is it really what you want, because bm and bd could be total losers, and you just invited them in to mess w/ your life.
I'm not speaking just from my experience, but from the experiences of many people in the adoption triad.
The way things stand right now, if you choose to meet your bparents, it's not a quick thing. You put your name in to a registry, and you get non-identifying info. If the bmom has done the same, the social workers will encourage letters to be sent. If and when things are going smoothly, contact will be made. Not all people choose to go this route, and going into it you need to have your eyes wide open.
I don't think that most adoptees are looking for a new family, but answers to questions that have never been answered - who do I look like, what are my roots, what's my medical history, and why was an adoption plan made. I think that for the bfamily, the main question is whether or not the child is alive, happy and healthy. All very natural questions on both parts.
As for my story being a typical one, it is very typical these days. It wasn't when my mom adopted my brothers, but it is now. Many birthparents will not choose a family who does not agree to some degree of openness.
On a side note, a dear friend of mine adopted her kids from Guatemala and Columbia, and has open adoptions with both. She saw that her kids needed the info and contact, and she made it work. It's such an amazing story!
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