Supreme court says no death penalty for child rape
Moms View Message Board: The Kitchen Table (Debating Board): Supreme court says no death penalty for child rape
I know that many are against the death penalty in all regards. I want to know what those of you who are not opposed to it think about this decision.
Supreme court says that regardless of how many children a person rapes, how young the child is, or how much trauma they endure, the death penalty cannot be imposed for this crime.
Here's the article.
No Death Penalty
What do you think?
I was all for it until I saw a news interview with a child victim, now an adult, who was/is opposed to it. I thought he had a valid argument when he said that the child had been traumatized already. To add the feeling that you were responsible for another person's death would just be adding to their trauma.
That said, I'm not necessarily opposed to other forms of punishment...
I am pro death penalty, no bones about it. IF they have shown beyond a responsible doubt that they committed a crime, that our system claims is punishable by death, they should be put to death. Their actions that caused the crime to occur, were done irregardless of the lives they destroyed. Toleration, of the criminal mentality feeds into the high crime rates most states have faced over the last several year. I believe the three strikes law should be nation wide. I believe that those that can not be reformed into a life of morals and ethics, have no purpose living a life out in the prison system.
I believe that if the system started to act on the behalf of the victims, instead of the perpetrator, that our crime rates would drop. Seems that many crimes, including the rape of a child, give the perp's a slap on the wrist and a few years, or less, to learn how to become better at their crime of choice...... If this wasn't the case the repeat offender rates wouldn't be so high. Many escalate their crimes, after each stint in prison too. They generally aren't reformed in prison, they just learn how to work the system better each time they enter it.
Our penal system is a joke.. Why else would drug transactions happen outside of Churches, as in the state of Florida in the last week, in broad day light. People with no income, drive expensive cars, live in expensive houses, and wear expensive clothing, yet they can't figure out who the suppliers of illegal activity are?? Hmmm?
A man that chooses to rape a child deserves to die. Saying the child would carry blame over his death, is like saying they carry blame for the rape. Once he commits the rape it is out of the childs hands in the hands of the legal system that is suppose to protect us from dirt bags like the person that through it was his right to rape a 7 year old child...
Here is an example of the punishments being handed down..
Judge Edward Cashman Gives Man Who Repeatedly Raped 7-Year-Old Girl For 4 Years 60 Days In Jail
I will bet money that Mark Hulett will move on to his next victim with in a year of his 60 day sentence that will be actually a 30 day sentence for good behavior and over crowding of our prison system. Polly Klaus' killer, Richard Allen Davis, had been a life time criminal. His first charges happened in 1967 at the age of twelve, and ended on November 30, 1993, nearly two months after he had killed Polly.. 26 years of crime, 26 years of hurting people, ending in the death of an innocent child. Here is his record....
Richard Allen Davis
Need I say more??
This angers me in a way I can not put into words. These sadistic perverts rip away the innocence of children and their lives are never going to be the same. I can not imagine that kind of trauma but it sickens me everytime I hear about a case and then there are the ones that should have been prevented by our judicial system like Bobbie mentioned.
As a mother I live in constant fear of these people. My kids can't play in their own backyard and it's not because I fear they will run out into the street and got hit by a car. It's the deathly fear they will be a victim of that random stranger child abduction that are committed by child rapists.
Isn't raping a child a cruel and unusual thing? If anything these people should not have the benefit of not be subjected to cruel and unusual not more protection.
I personally think that all child rapist should be sent into regular population in the prison (no solitary) and have to wear special clothes that point them out to everyone as a child rapist.. I have read too many things that get done to child rapists and murderers in prison. And I think they might have a worse time of that than being put on death row. Sorry but I find death row to be a little cushy and too private. They should have to deal with what all those dad's who are in prison and can't see their kids can do to them.
Maybe I am being a little mean but in some ways I think we are doing them a favor by putting them in their quiet private death row cells and not allowing anyone else to be near them.
I am not for the death penalty but I agree that what they are doing to kids is horrible and cruel and there should be something done that will stop it not just postpone it until they get out of jail. Throw them in with all those dad's that are there for doing whatever they did and would like nothing more than to see their little girls or boys play outside and can't and then throw away the key because these people should never be allowed to walk free again.. I don't care how innocent they think they are.. If they have raped a child.. they can't ever be trusted with another child. So they shouldn't be able to get out of jail EVER!!!
I've always felt the death penalty is too easy for some of these criminals. I agree with Tarable. Never let them out, and let them stay in there and suffer the consequences.
I agree with Tarable too.
This is a very real problem. Sadly, as we become more and more advanced scientifically, we understand that these people are truly ill. Their brains (like the brains of many violent people and many who have committed murder) show abnormalities in scans. Now, do you put a mentally ill person to death? I don't agree with that. Do you imprison a mentally ill person?
I think the answer is something we really cannot afford as a society (we pay way too much to house criminals as it is). They need to be quarantined, as someone with an infections disease would be. This way, they would not be in prison per say, but would not have the freedom or opportunity to brutalize another child.
I just wish we could watch out for these people and flag them before they hurt someone.
Ame
I guess my way of thinking is that anyone who commits any heinous crime is mentally ill. No mentally competent person commits crimes such as the ones the death penalty is allowed for.
I also believe it would cost a lot less to house these prisoners if they would quit making the prisons resorts instead of concrete walls and metal bars like they should be.
I'm with Bobbie on this one... Two many second, third, fourth chances given only to have them go out and repeat hurting more.
They can not be "quarantined", it is against their civil rights.
I am with Adena, I am pretty much sure that everyone that commits a heinous crime is technically mentally incapacitated.
The ACLU is fighting the death penalty for anyone that is deemed mentally incapacitated. Says it is against their 8th amendment rights.
I am a whole hearted supporter of the death penalty in general. Ditto Bobbie and Tarable on this one. It should be the death penalty, and quickly. No waiting around, no years and years on death row. JMHO I agree with Rayelle - I find myself constantly living in fear for my child for these people who are all around us. Why? Because the law doesn't take care of them for us. They are living right among us, offending repeatedly, taking innocence and changing lives forever. WE have to look out for them. WE have to guard our own children because the law doesn't do it in these cases.
Can't think of the name right now, but a guy was just executed finally. Why? Because he kidnapped, raped, and killed an 11 year old boy. 1 month AFTER he was released from prison early. Why was he in prison the first time? For raping a little boy.
This is why they should die with out hesitation..
Missing Vermont Girl Found Dead
12-Year-Old Missing Since June 25
Affidavit: Uncle Took Missing Girl For Sex
Teen Says She Helped Man Bring 12-Year-Old To Home
IF they can nail them to the crime, as they say "dead to rights", then they should do the world a favor and deal with them. If they started dealing with them in a manner to put the fear of God in the next sick •••, then he might think twice before he violates an innocent soul, and I bet the rate of this type of crime would drop.
Most children/people won't report, they know that the people get right back out, and they fear retaliation. A dead man can't retaliate...
ditto Bobbie.
I don't think "put(ting) the fear of God into them" is possible since what they do is an uncontrollable addiction. They are sick. That's why they do what they do. I do not think they should be at large to prey on the innocent -especially since they cannot control themselves. They need to be declared mentally incompetent, a danger to society and be kept in a facility for the rest of their lives where they can get the medical and psychological help they need.
I am a believer in the death penalty for cold blooded, premeditated murder for personal gain (wife kills husband for money or revenge or gang or drug murders).
The gray area for me is someone who is so obviously sick.
I wish there were a way to profile and identify these people when they are young and could be helped - before they go into a full blown psychosis. Maybe then they could be helped and monitored so the chance they could do this would be greatly reduced.
The real bottom line here is that we as parents and good citizens have to be ever vigilant about our children and know where they are at all times and exactly who they are with.
We need to advocate for proper treatment of those individuals who are afflicted with mental illness which causes them to be violent - even when proper treatment means being committed to a facility for the rest of their lives where they will not have unmonitored contact with children.
So, lock them up (in a medically appropriate place) and throw away the key.
Ame
I agree that they are sick but if they have already done this they need treatment but don't deserve to be in a nice comfy psych ward... it should be a bare minimum comfort place but with medical treatment...
this is what I think should be done to all of them.. if we aren't going to put them in medical treatment...
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,375601,00.html
sorry guys i don't know how to do a link...
Dawn or someone else will have to make the link. I can't remember how to address the comma's in the link.
This is great, except... He no longer serves as anything but a burden on society. The purpose he might have had, his potential in society, is now nonexistent, by his choice...
In a society where stories like this are on TV every night. A person with the propensity to commit such a crime has the opportunity to help themselves. There are out patient clinics, with sliding scales for payment for those that are uninsured, where medications can be obtained at minimal to no cost. They choose not to help themselves because they enjoy their addiction and they justify it as being out of their control. When it truly is all about their control. They see others get away with it, there are networks of people that have sex with children that encourage each other to continue on in their addiction. They act with out regard for the lives they damage and they should be treated with the same disregard. They believe, for if nothing more than the moment of the act, that they are beyond the law.
These people are every day people, people you live next to, you work with, go to church with. These aren't people that are "mentally incapacitated". They might not be functioning on a sane level when it comes to their addiction but they are generally fully functional in all other areas of their lives. This would imply to me that choice plays a huge part in all other aspects of their lives.
My best friend in high school, grew up being sexually assaulted by the man that was supposed to be her step grandfather. She was 14 years old when the abuse stopped, what stopped it was his death. Years later, they discovered that he had molested/rapped his siblings and a couple of cousins and had moved on to his younger sister in law and his own children, then his grandchildren. This man was an "important" person in the town they had lived in. He was well liked. Clearly fully functional when it came to life, thus not "mentally incompetent" by any terms. He left a wake of dysfunctional people in his path, however, all because of his choices.
I find it hard to justify, the choices that lead up to their actions, and the fact that a possibility of an excuse justifies their crime and should extend their lives..
A murderer, would beg to differ if they were sane at the moment they killed the person they killed. Seriously, should they be in this "hospital" setting a long side the person that is pulling their hair out because the voice in their head is telling them the government is tapping into their thoughts through the hair shafts? There is a big difference in my mind, between someone that is truly mentally ill and someone that chooses to go against their God given filters and do as they please even though they know it is immorally wrong.
Sex addiction, like all other addictions, can be controlled. It is once the addiction is let out that the control is lost and beyond difficult to obtain again.
I love shoes, but stealing shoes is wrong. I don't decide that my need for shoes is more important then the laws, I just stay out of the darn shoe store...... I choose not to steal the shoes to fulfill my need for more shoes. If I allowed myself to steal one set of shoes, I would justify stealing another pair and another pair until I am caught. Once I got out of "jail" I would have to avoid the shoe stores, because it wouldn't take but a great pair of shoes to get me to steal again.
Fox News Story
I don't feel molesting a child is a " an uncontrollable addiction". Being attracted to a child is no different than me being attracted to men with nice chests and dark hair. That is what I am attracted to, but I am a married woman and I don't ACT on those attractions. If it is an addiction, than these people KNOW they are addicted to sex and should seek help BEFORE they act on it. By not seeking the help and acting on it, they are committing the crime and should be treated as such. Yes, they are sick people, but the difference is they KNOW they are sick, but don't do anything about it. Just act upon it.
I understand that anyone in jail is a burden to society but it costs more to put them to death at this point than to just lock them up and throw away the keys! Not to mention there have been too many people recently released from death row that were innocent of the crime they were convicted for, how horrible would that make you feel if you had to be the one that gave someone the lethal injection and then found out that they were innocent?
On another note I don't think that child molesters are incomopotent.. I think they are addicted.. i would hope that our system would help them with their addiction just like i would hope that any alcoholic or drug addict would get help. I agree that they should not go to some hospital with people who should be there. But I do think maybe they should get some therapy.. so maybe they will have learn how horrible they are and then have to live with it forever!
And Bobbie.. I am also addicted to shoes but I don't steal them either!
We are rationalizing sanely behavior that is insane. There is really no way for us to judge how much "control" these people should or should not have.
We all have impulses. A mentally competent person is able to control them most of the time, especially those that society tells us are wrong. Still we have people with "benign" addictions like junk food or video games or bad tv shows. Yet, since these hurt only the person addicted, we really don't see them as bad.
I don't think most of these people have the capacity to see themselves as addicted or mentally ill. Nor do they have the awareness to seek help. Some are people without the emotional ability to feel for others - so they have no remorse because they are incapable of empathy.
I cannot agree with putting them to death, because I bet if you did a brain scan, you would find abnormalities in certain areas of the brain that control these impulses. This is what I mean by mentally ill. However, anyone who rapes a child should be put in a facility with proper medical care and no chance of ever being alone with a child again.
Ame
I am the victim of a sexual crime and I can whole heartedly say that I wish without a second's hesitation that I KNEW he wasn't going to be able to do what he did to me to anyone else ever again. I can't say that I know that because I made the poor choice in NOT pressing charges (had I known then what I know now about all that the incident would bring to me and my life I would have) but at the time I didn't feel capable of going through that. It wasn't until almost two years later that I TRULY learned the everlasting inpact that would have on my life (to this day even).
Without hesitation I feel that he doesn't deserve the freedom to even have the chance to committ the crime again. But would I feel better knowing that he's locked up somewhere getting 3 square meals a day, getting to exercise, and further his education while I sit here with the consequences of his crime? Sure he doesn't have FREEDOM, but he/they made those choices when they chose to committ a crime against another person.
So I'm all FOR the dealth penalty for child rape and even adult rape... if you can PROVE that he did it, then just be done with it.
I know they say it cost more to put someone to death than to just incarcerate a person but I just can't see how. 1 shot after you know they did it vs. 35-40 years of meals, housing, clothes, and so on? I just don't understand that?
"He no longer serves as anything but a burden on society. The purpose he might have had, his potential in society, is now nonexistent, by his choice."
Bobbie summed it up best in my opinion, he made his choice now he can live (or die) with the consequences.
As someone who is pro-life in EVERY meaning of the word, I cannot condone or support the death penalty for any reason. The fiction book, "A Lesson Before Dying" by Ernest Gaines played a large part in changing my mind as I used to be for capital punishment.
|
Members
