Teacher has kindergarten class vote on whether to expel autistic boy
Moms View Message Board: The Kitchen Table (Debating Board): Teacher has kindergarten class vote on whether to expel autistic boy
Here's a link to the CBS news story. vote. I'm sure there must be more to the story than what is reported here, but if the teacher did indeed bring the boy to the front of the class and have the class vote on whether to expel him, I think she is watching entirely too much "reality" TV.
WOW!
I watched the video and I know there is the teacher side. But I do think that they had this child in front of the class so they could call out his bad bahviors. I am just appaulled at this. Then to read the comments on cnn about how people feel. It just brings tears to my eyes. Our world is so fallen.
I do think that the teacher was in the wrong for what she did, there is no question about that. I would like to hear her side of it to know just what she has been dealing with for the entire year that brought her to this, but no matter what it was, there was no reason/excuse for that. Dd had a child in her class in first grade that had VERY bad behaviors and I do understand the frustration of it. I understand both sides of the mainstream thing. I think mainstreaming is a good thing, I am just not convinced that it should happen at such a young age.
I don't think that decision should have been left up to 5-and-6-year-old children. Besides, isn't it almost the end of the school year? They've made it this far, and are trying to get rid of him? I'm confused!
Absolutely outrageous. That's all I can really say on here without being inappropriate. 
Wow. My kids are the same age, and I can't even imagine. Behavior issues or not, it's cruel, and it sets an example for the rest of the kids' lives. Not only his, but now those kids think it's ok to bully, succumb to peer pressure, and that if you don't like someone, you can humiliate them, and the teachers will encourage it.
I'd also like to hear the other side. I have a hard time believing this is an accurate description of what happened. Our kindergarten class has two autistic boys. There are some very difficult days for the teacher, no doubt. I cannot imagine, however, her ever asking for negative feedback about any child.
And Dawn, I don't think the intent was to have the kids actually vote him out of the class and have that decision honored. It sounds like it was to make a point to the child that the other kids don't like his behavior and this was the method she used to drive that point home (ie, when you act like that, no one wants you here).
I'd want to hear the other side before passing judgment. But I think it is horrible to try to humiliate any child in such a way and to ask classmates to say negative things about another student. There is clearly a better way to handle these situations, no matter how difficult the child may be.
There probably could be a better way, then!
I'd like to see more about this as well. If the child is that disruptive - and I've worked with some and have seen some things that I couldn't believe a child of that age could do - he or she should either be with a one on one aide who is trained in non-violent physical restraint or not in an integrated classroom - if that doesn't work then possibly residential treatment. However, if the teacher really did this - regardless of how frustrated she may have been, she should be fired on the spot, and her teaching license revoked.
I'm personally not interested in the teacher's side. Nothing in my mind justifies what she did to this child.
I'm with you, Cat. I better not say anymore.
I don't think anyone said her actions were justified, just that they would like to hear the rest of the story. No matter what she might have been dealing with the entire school year, if this story is correct, she was clearly in the wrong. But I have a feeling there is a whole lot more to it than what the mothers account is.
I know that in our case when dd was in 1st grade, there were countless meetings with the parents about the child. Some of the time, the parents didn't even show up for scheduled meetings. At one point, towards the end of the year, he threw a chair that came within inches of hitting my dd in the head. He wasn't throwing it at her, just throwing it because he was mad/frustrated about something. I can honestly tell you that after that, I lost all patience and went into the school and told them that if my child was ever harmed in ANY was because of the actions of this child, there would be lawsuits filed against the school and the child and his parents. This was the last straw for me. I can't even begin to tell you the stories of things that had happened before then.
The school wanted him placed in the districts special class, but the parents did not. The school could not legally force the issue. It was the parents choice. That is why I am not so sure that mainstreaming is such a great thing in all cases. I honestly believe that if this child had been in the special class, he could have gradually been taught the correct behaviors in a class room with a teacher that is specifically trained in dealing with these kids. Regular classroom teachers just don't have the same specialized training they do to teach these kids and bring out the best in them. Then after a few years, he could have been placed into the regular classes. I also think he would have had a much better school experience as well as the kids that were in my dd's class. I am positive he didn't WANT to act out the way he did and I am sure he knew the other kids didn't really enjoy being around him. I am sure that didn't do much to help his self esteem and development. But honestly, how long do you think 6 year olds will have patience and understanding for something like that?
Anyway, like I said, not matter what all she has dealt with for the entire school year, her actions were wrong if the reported story is accurate. I am just curious to hear the teachers account of everything.
I completely and totally disagree with collaborative classrooms (or mainstreaming) in cases of a child being very disruptive in a violent or non-violent way. I've worked in these mainstreamed classrooms for four years, and I just don't see that it is fair for any of the children. The special needs children tend to get frustrated in such a structured environment, and the other children are constantly disrupted and can't get through a lesson without distraction. I don't see how this is a fair set-up for anyone.
There is a pre-k class at my school where a four year old is very physical. No, he isn't always intending harm, but that is the only way he knows how to deal with anger and frustration. Doesn't make it hurt any less when one of the other (much smaller) four year olds are on the receiving end. The teacher has been slapped in the face in front of the children, the aide has had a door slammed into her nose, and numerous scratches all over, including her face. The students have to tiptoe around him in order to try to make it through the day without physical harm. Is this any environment for those children to go to every single day?
Those children who are capable of learning and sitting through the lessons fairly well should be in the inclusive classroom. Those who are getting nothing out of it but frustration obviously aren't thriving in that environment.
I can see that the teacher has probably gotten to the end of her rope. But it should have never been allowed to have gotten to that breaking point. It's unfair to everyone. I agree that I would like to hear the teacher's view. I'm not saying I agree with having children tell what they don't like about another. I want to know what led up to this. If she thought maybe if he saw the other children didn't like it when he threw things at them or hit them, he may realize he needs to stop those things...
As far as the mother goes, if she feels as she said, that he keeps reliving this incident, then why is she dragging him to interviews and letting him hear about it over and over, along with her way of thinking? She's not helping him any. And she said that he kept repeating "I'm not special, I'm not special". I wonder if she isn't taking this in the wrong context. He keeps hearing her in these interviews talking about him being "special needs", maybe he is taking what she says to heart and he's trying to say he isn't different like that. To me, that makes more sense.
Do children typically have behavioral problems due to Asperger's? I know that is is a very high functioning level of autism, but I've known a couple children with it who don't have behavioral issues. Just more sensory issues and things such as that...
Ditto Luvn, Melanie, Vicki....
I may or may not hit post...but let me see if I can say this how I want.
First this is my child. Not in name, but pretty close. He isn't even dx as aspergers he is so mild. But yes he just randomly talks, occassionally licks things, and is very touchy feely with other students. I wish he wasn't this way, really, but he is. In kindergarden he did have issues with being physical with kids, hugging too hard, etc. He is a "sensory seeker", he doesn't feel things like we feel things, he has to have them harder than we do. But he is sound sensitive, so too loud drives him crazy. So I consider that he has more sensory issues than behavior issues, but i can't kid myself, those two go hand in hand.
But let's talk classroom. Let's be clear with my son (and what I heard this mom say), we don't have a dx although we know he is off. They are "working" on a dx. In Texas there are two classroom options, regular classrooms and the special ed classrooms. The special ed rooms are full of nonverbal children, severely autistic children, children with down syndrome and children who are mentally retarded. It is multiaged because they work on life skills, colrs, shapes etc. So in 4th grade not much regular day education goes on.
So what do you do with a child like mine? If you put him in a special ed classroom, he won't learn, period. It would really be like never reading to a child, he would not learn. But in a regular classroom yes he can be a disruption, he can't sit still, he can't keep his thoughts to himself. I know he doesn't have friends. The boys are mean to him, they call him idiot, they certainly don't play with him. The girls they adore him, he is like their "baby". They take care of him.
The thing that noone who doesn't really know him, doesn't get. He is very smart. We just found out he got commended on all of his state testing (means he was either perfect or missed one). His mind just works a little differently, but he is learning to play the game. Albert Einstein is thought to of had aspergers. My son will go to college and be a successful adult.
So what do we do between then and now?
Ideally we take 5-6 similar kids and place them with a teacher, but come on, our ratio is 20-1. If he were to be a threat to others (instead of an annoyance) they would try to keep an aide with him at all times, if that didn't help he would be moved out and bused off to a different class. This year my son is placed in a gifted class, all 20 kids have an IQ above 135. Guess what he doesn't stand out so much. He still has his behavior problems, but alot of them do. It hasn't helped him socially, but academically it has been huge.
Now the other interesting thing...all these sensory issues, we get no services they aren't "academically necessary". So the school doesn't provide. Somehow no one sees that everyone would be better off if he were more "grounded". So for 2 years I provided and paid for ot, off sight, once a week. It cost me 20 dollars a week, I took him out of school during lunch and recess and 30 minutes of a class. It cost me a lot in gas and then I had to buy him a lunch due to time constraints. Really I just couldn't afford to do it anymore, plus is was a huge chunk of time. He really needs 30 minutes twice a week.
As far as him repeating, he's not special. These kids are notorious for being very literal, they don't get that being special, in a special needs way might be bad. Special is special and it is good. Even my son who appears mostly normal, repeats things he has heard. He came home in 3rd grade saying he was stupid, oh I am just stupid. I assumed it was a kid who said that, I finally asked, he got up and "monologued" his teacher and a speech to him where she called him stupid. GREAT! We had him moved out. I kid you not it took 3 months before we didn't hear that anymore. It wasn't constant, but it occasionally slipped out.
I guess all of this is simply to say. I don't know what happened in that classroom. But I do know that the schools just suck and providing for these out of the box kids. Which statistics are showing are 1 in 9 kids these days. Some kids do better than others, some do worse. But we have a real epidemic on our hands and the line is drawn regularly. Your kid is not welcomed here. But I urge all of you to think back in your childhood, there was that kid, really are you worse off for knowing him? I think since the world is about to be full of adults that are different, school might be the place to learn about it.
What I do know, is people can be mean. There is no doubt in my mind they were mean to this kid. No they might not of really had them vote, maybe it was more of a open your eyes kind of thing. But it was mean, this kid may not fully get how mean it was to him. But the rest of the kids sure did. As a teacher myself, no regular education teachers are not taught to handle dangerous children, but they are taught behavior modification skills, they are taught classroom management, and they are taught to teach children by modeling. I don't know the other side, but I am willing to bet she didn't follow what she was taught.
This all just makes me very sad.
I totally agree that the schools suck. And I don't think the teacher handled it well. But I don't feel we have the entire story. I feel like everyone is hanging the teacher with the rope the mother handed them.
If in fact, the child is special needs, then this teacher was totally out of line. She needs some courses on dealing with special needs children. This is another reason I feel they should not be placed in just any classroom. These teachers need to be certified in special ed. If the child was not special needs, the teacher still made a mistake in judgement most likely, but I'm not sure that everything "went down" just as the mother stated it did. If we find it did, then my opinions will likely change.
Kaye, what do you feel the optimal situation for your son would be? Obviously, he does not belong in the special ed room with the severe cases. But do you feel he does well in the regular classroom? I'm curious about how you feel because your son does have such a mild case. Do you think he gets frustrated in the typical classroom or does he do well in there? See, we don't have gifted classes at our school and that bothers me because I see the children who are above their grade level get so bored and frustrated while trying to wait for those who are at or below grade level to "get" it. And I also see those children who are below grade level feel badly because the "smart" kids get things so quickly. I know it is all "politically correct" but sometimes I wonder if that's the best thing for children...
I agree with Adena, and I am willing to bet this mother spent this school year in denial and avoiding comments and suggestions from the school for ways to make this situation better. If you have a child that is eating crayons, hiding under the desk and spinning in circles i am sure that has been brought to her attention many times throughout the year. This does not in anyway excuse the teachers behaviors. But I truly don't feel this mother did all she could to protect a child that obviously needs more care and attention then he was recieving in this classroom. Hey free public education is great, but you can't squeeze blood from a turnip, if your kid isn't getting what they need, do you leave them in the situation and try to get that blood, or do you accept it's a turnip and seek other avenues to get what your kid needs?
The teacher should be punished, but the mom needs to spend this time focused on her child, getting him the services he needs, rather than wasting time trying to vindicate the situation by doing TV interviews with the boy (awful IMO) and possibly filing a lawsuit and the time and energy involved in that.
This is also my son. My oldest son, who just turned 47, has Aspergers. When he was three we changed pediatricians, and the new pediatrician listened, and sent us to his brother, a pediatric psychologist. My son was diagnosed as "pre-autistic" (whatever the H that is), and we were advised to seek out an institution for him (in Chicago). We instead sought and got great services. He was placed in a 6/hr 5/day week pre-school program with counseling for him and us, and the state paid for everything. When we moved to Phila. he was 5-1/2, and again was put in an all-day pre-school type program w/ counseling. 2 years later he was transferred to a Special Ed school, which handled children in all ranges of educationally/emotionally disabled/handicapped children - some severely autistic with little to no communication, some, like my son, now able to communicate but with poor social skills. The kids were grouped by need much of the time. Around 6th grade he was moved to a school that was/is a "real" school, working with learning disabled/handicapped kids who could learn and would eventually move to non-special ed schools. All of this was before "mainstreaming". In 9th grade he was accepted at Philadelphia's Central High School, the academic elite public school for boys at that time, and did quite well in science and languages, anything "hard", but not well in English, Literature, etc. Even then he had social issues, and I remember being called in to school because of a go-round with a teacher in the computer room who clearly didn't like either computers or boys. He went to Drexel U. for 4 years, but dropped out.
My personal opinion is that "mainstreaming" has become a cheap way for public school systems to handle special ed kids. It's a great theory but states are not spending the money necessary to make mainstreaming work and are just giving it lip service. I think one of the reasons mainstreaming is so popular with states is that they don't have to fund special ed if they push mainstreaming. And that results in the situation Kaye describes - a special ed class of children who are truly not able to function at all in a regular setting, and no assistance for the kid who functions fairly well but needs some therapeutic assistance. (And, of course, Kaye is dealing with Texas, a bastion of "compassionate conservatism").
I don't know what the answer is. I do know that the biggest part of the problem is that we as a nation don't value education. Oh, we talk a great game, but when it comes to paying tax dollars for public education, or tax dollars for assisting special needs children, or tax dollars to enable kids from low-income families to actually afford college - forget it. We as a nation don't value education. We say "you can't solve a problem by throwing money at it", and then try to solve the problem by having national "standards" and national testing programs. Yes, according to test scores, fewer children are being left behind, but a big part of that is that standards have been lowered, so that what the students are measuring up to is a lower standard.
I don't know what the answers may be. I do know that money would help a lot. According to recent studies, a large number of school buildings across the country, and certainly in Pennsylvania, are physically unsafe. Money would sure solve that problem.
According to all experts, smaller class size promotes learning - money would solve that problem also.
People vote against school taxes because they don't have school-age children, or because their children go to private school. I understand that - I pay the school tax every year and it is the biggest chunk of my real estate tax bill. But it is very short sighted. The children who are being cheated of a decent education are the people who won't be able to hold jobs in the future, or who will hold jobs and perform them poorly. As a nation we are apparently less able to produce people with the educational backgrounds and technical skills needed by, for example, Microsoft, so Microsoft and other employers are lobbying to increase the number of visas available to foreign skilled workers. How long before Microsoft, for example, moves much of its operations overseas so that it can tap a pool of better educated, better qualified high-level people for the jobs it needs done?
I shouldn't have started, and yes, I know I have gone way off topic, but this whole issue of public education is one of my big buttons.
Back to the teacher. Yes, I'm sure there is more to it than the article or the video, probably a whole year of disruptive behavior of one kind or another. And yes, if the mom wants her son to be able to put this behind him why is she allowing him to be interviewed (the 15 minutes of fame syndrome, I guess). But whatever the back-story is, whatever has been happening all year, you don't do a Survivor or Big Brother type showdown with kindergarteners. The teacher was out of line and it should never have happened.
Here is another link - I don't know how to make it clickable.
http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/custom/fringe/sfl-flpkindergartner0525pnmay25,0,6883987.story?track=rss
Kindergarten Story
I remember a boy in grade school, who would get something in his head and repeat it over and over and over. I don't remember him being disruptive in the classroom, anymore, but he probably was to some degree. I more remember him repeating the number to call for time or weather, after we'd been on the field trip to the TV station. I know I heard him say it, after recess, when we were lining up to go back in the building. (936-1212!)
I don't think I would have voted him "off the island", though.
The story does give more information, but I still do not think the teacher was justified. The boy is described as a "high functioning" Asperger's child, which certainly describes my son.
I was really lucky, in many, many ways, that my son's problem came to light in the mid 1960s. Both Illinois and Pennsylvania not only paid 100% of his special education from day one, they also paid for transportation for him for both the pre-school and school periods.
Ginny, you are very lucky, we were much less PC back in the 60's, kids were allowed to be labled so they got the help they needed. Now if kids are labled it's considered unfair, against there civil liberties and essentially don't receive the care or assistance they need.
I don't know about the fact you stated that the standards being lowered, in Arizona we just keep raising them (to include the mainstreaemed children) and not putting the per child $$ into these new mandated programs, and our state is ran by a Democrat We raise the bar, but not the base to hold up thebar.
I agree also that the teacher is not in any way justified and I'd like to mom to be held accountable as well. After a full year in this classroom for something like this to happen clearly shows she was not protecting her "little guy", that's my hot button--open your eyes and don't just assume since they are in school, mainstream or spec ed, highly functioning, "normal" whatever, that they are getting what they need. We as parents HAVE got to be aware of what is happening and not allow OUR child to be damaged. Only we can now what is benefiting or harming OUR child, WE have to be the advocates and quit expecting others to be. It's wonderful when our children are in great situations at school, and I'm sure a vast majority of the time that is the case (has always been for us) but when the writing is on the wall...well you get it!
"Kaye, what do you feel the optimal situation for your son would be? Obviously, he does not belong in the special ed room with the severe cases. But do you feel he does well in the regular classroom? "
Yes I do believe he belongs in a regular classroom. What I wished they offered for him were some services outside the classroom. A social skills lunch group once a week would be great, some ot services, and honestly teachers who get it.
For example, a lot of teachers use the "oh i like how so and so is sitting" to get the other kids to comply. My child doesn't get subtlies, so you do have to look at him and say "sit down, andrew". But by a whole teachers directly teach math skills, but they don't directly teach behavior skills, that is done in large group, a lot of generalities. My son is very routine oriented, he doens't like to veer from it. So if they would take the first two weeks of school and literally walk him through the process, instead of stating a large list, he would be more successful. They can tell him write in your planner, and he does, but to this day he won't write his hw, he writes what they did in class. But if the teacher would really walk him to the black board, point to what needs written, etc, after a week or two he would be set. Now I realize that teachers are busy, but come on only 1 or 2 need this. Or how about we hire some extra aides for the beginning of school for kids like mine. I even offered to come and show him the ropes, they said no way to that offer.
There definition of success is different than mine. Mine kid grows every year, and slowly he is catching up. He will always be quirky, but he will have routines. He is learning to develop those himself, but really unless you are in a special ed class, they just don't teach you those skills. It is a catch 22 for us. Special ed far exceeds regular ed for social type stuff, but reg ed is his best academic placement.
Also because this is such an issue with many kids. Our school has about 700 kids k-5, there are at least 20 kids like my son at this school. I think they could do a much better job with special groups. Ginny hit the nail on the head...money is the answer, but we just won't pony up.
On top of that....tx legislation just voted to lower how much goes to the school (from 1.50 to 1.30) the school sure hasn't quit spending money. So to get more money they are raising appraisals on houses, which everyone is fighting because in this market our houses aren't worth that. This whole thing is a crazy system!
As far as the mom being held accountable. I am not allowed into my sons school without checking in first. They won't let you in unless you have an appointment. So when your child doesn't come home and talk about his day, how are you supposed to know things aren't bad. I am sure this teacher never said in a conference, I can't stand your child and I will do my best to kick him out. I had a horrible teacher last year. It took having a different horrible teacher for me to put it together. (our prek 3 year was one for the books). But by Thanksgiving I finally figured out what was going on and was able to start the move process. Really once they hit the real school it is so hard to really keep an eye on them. Typcially kids would come home complaining, mine never does.
A story on things I had to recognize. In the bad teachers room. One day he came home, he had a cut on his hand, a small cut, but it was bothering him. I cleaned it and asked him what happened, he said "i don't know". i asked him again did he cut it on something at school, he said "yes" I asked what did he cut himself on at school, he said" glass". It took several questions for me to get to, somebody broke a vase in the class a week ago, but today he was in one of the centers and he put his hand down and there was a small piece of glass from the vase and he cut himself, and bled at about noon. So the next question, did you tell your teacher? no. Turns out he went to the bathroom, washed his hand and held a paper towel on it, until it stopped bleeding. The he went back to the classroom and put the glass in "a safe place", which was inside a cinder block they used for shelves. Geesh. So I walked him into class the next morning, we retrieved the glass and threw it away. So I knew this was a real story. Told the teacher, who just had NO clue. Bt as a parent I had to put together that he wasn't speaking to his teacher about anything, which for him means he is shutting down in class. They don't know what is normal for him and what is not, so they didn't recognize that him not talking much at all wasn't an issue. I did notice that he wasn't getting conduct marks for talking, but I would like to think he was growing up and controlling himself better. You have to really read between the lines with this kid and it is hard. It is so much easier to do in hindsight.
Kaye, I'm really not picking on you or your situation, however if I had a school that would not let me in a classroom without an appointment, I would be at a different school or program in a heartbeat! And you make so many good points for young autistic children to NOT be in regular classrooms,
1. Ill equipped teachers
2. unsafe environments
3.Lack of Funding for special programs
maybe the answer would be to find off campus programs in addition to special services on campus that can teach them more "control" to fit in and gain a capacity to learn in maybe 3rd grade on up, when they are a bit more mature naturally and have had the special attention they need in those younger years? I don't know just a thought?
And for this FL situation I'm sure the teacher neve said "I can't stand your child and I will do my best to kick him out." But I'm sure things were mentioned, and plans were attempted unless she is a vile teacher all around, if she is she won't be around next year after all of this.
Kaye, the problem with aides in the classroom is that, at least around here, they pay them so poorly, that they take what they can get. This typically means people who have no training and no experience handling a child who has different needs.
My number one reason they shouldn't mainstream all children is what you stated: teachers who aren't trained in special ed. If they want to mainstream, they need to do it with maybe one or two classrooms, and make sure a special ed teacher is the teacher in these rooms. At our school, a special ed teacher comes into the regular classroom to teach math or reading. Big deal. They teach it the exact same way, only giving a little more guidance to the children who need it. What about the rest of the day???
First of all, in regards to this teacher, she had no right to humiliate this child. How sad that he had to go through that.
I can see both sides of the mainstream/not to mainstream issue. I have a very good friend that has 3 kids that are special needs. All have a form of autism. I see what she goes through, and I know how hard it is.
However, I also have a child that was in a 1st grade class with a child that was being mainstreamed. The teacher was a new teacher, had only been teaching 2 yrs, and had no experience, or training on how to deal with him. This child had daily outbursts, was disruptive, had impulse control issues, among other things. My child didn't learn a thing all year. I had to help him at home. My ds was a little behind in reading, and he stayed that way all year. After school, I had to listen to stories of what this child did each day. At one point he was sitting by my ds, and would not leave him alone. When I called the school to ask that my ds be moved away, I was told he had to sit by someone. He was in special education, and he had to be part of the class. Well, how is this fair to my child, who can't do his work, or concentrate? I feel my ds wasted 1st grade. This year he was in 2nd, he went from being pulled out for help in reading, to be tested for the gifted program at the end of the year. I think in part, this was due to his teacher and the classroom environemnt this year.
I completely agree with Kym. Regular teachers are not qualified, in most cases, to effectivly teach children that are being mainstreamed. However, I do not feel that children, such as Kaye's son, should be in an environment where they are not learning either.
I really don't know what the solution is. But, I do know that what is being done now, isn't working.
Oh Kym, I wish it were that simple, for Kaye and for so many other kids. First you have to find a "different school or program". And there aren't many of them. Most charter schools won't take children with learning disabilities, and there are darned few private schools who will accept them unless the school specializes in learning disabled children. So you are left with the public schools, or finding the rare private school that will accept a learning disabled child, AND pay for it.
Every child is supposed to have an evaluation if the parent requests it and there are enough events/clues to convince the school system that they must do it - and that in itself is a battle. Parents often wind up going privately for a diagnosis (which their insurance may or may not cover), and then convincing the school that the outside diagnosis is valid, so that the school will put the kid through another series of tests with other specialists (you hope they are specialists) to (you hope) come up with the same result. Then you get an ISP - maybe quickly and maybe months later. And you have to decide if the ISP adequately describes your child's needs AND that the services the school offers in the ISP are adequate. If they are (and often they are not), then you have to keep after the school to provide the services, and make sure the aide or other person(s) providing the services are qualified and care.
Yes, probably a special classroom for kids who need training in school routines, where they would get this kind of patient training AND grade-level education at the same time, would be ideal. But it ain't gonna happen. It boils down to a money issue. States and school systems are not going to spend one penny more than they have to, for any educational program. And they know that unless the parents of a special needs child go to court, they can get away with skimping, or simply ignoring, the child's needs. There aren't enough of such parents around to make a significant voter block. And, you will always have the people who will say (1) I don't want my taxes to pay for your kid's problems; (2) your problem child should not be in a class with "normal" kids because s/he will interfere with the "normal" kids' learning. And a whole bunch of other not very nice things.
I'm not opposed to mainstreaming. My son was, essentially, mainstreamed in 10th grade, but he had a whole lot of special ed before that happened. But that was in a time where school systems really cared about education (though near the end of it) and where states were willing to spend enough money on special ed to make it possible for "high achieving" kids with problems like my son's or Kaye's son to actually achieve. My son, at 47, is still "high achieving" Aspergers. This means that he is self-supporting, delivering hoagies by bicycle; and on the side he has a consulting business in esoteric forms of lighting, through which he earns as much or more as he does in his "day job". The firm he consults for wants to hire him, but he says that he can't work in a job where he has to be inside all day and has to have lots of exercise - the hoagie house people know him and his idiosyncracies, they trust him and he trusts them. He's the nicest person in our family; painfully honest; concentrates intensely on what interests him to the point where you could drop a bomb and he wouldn't notice; always logical - which is why his social skills aren't so great; totally reliable, and very, very kind. All his bills are paid, he has health insurance, and an IRA. I worry about what will happen when he is in his 50s, or older. Fortunately, his brothers love him and like him, so he'll never be alone if he needs help.
And I worry about kids like Kaye's son, who don't have a mom as knowledgeable as Kaye and as caring. It is very hard work taking care of and raising a special needs child, often exhausting, and if you have other children, and maybe a job, and not much money, what happens to that child?
I don't think I would have taken the route the Florida mom did, but I can sure understand why she is doing it.
Kaye, there's a great book - The Speed of Dark, by Elizabeth Moon. Ms. Moon has an autistic child, which is what inspired her to write this book (she is one of my favorite science fiction authors). The story is set in the near future, in a time when they have discovered how to detect autism in the womb AND, by genetic treatment, "cure" it. It is about a group of "high achieving" autistic people who work at a job where their kind of focus and skills are valuable, and issues that arise around an experimental treatment that may "cure" autistic adults of their autism. She carries the story through the thoughts of her main character. I found that this story gave me insights into my son and how he thinks that were enlightening and, I hope, helpful. I recommend it very highly.
I wish we were all sitting around talking, It would be so much easier to explain my situation. But, rather than bore you with the details, I'd like to comment on other things.
I believe that someone failed this boy. Whether it be the teacher, the school district, the parents or the state. Someone dropped the ball. I'm afraid that this boy's view of school and the education system as a whole is damaged beyond repair. I'm sure it's possible to change that, he is young enough, but I think the odds are against it.
I would like all reading this who are unfamiliar with the term autism to realize that it is an umbrella term with varying degrees of severity. You have children diagnosed as autistic whose conditions are so mild you would never know if you hadn't been told, to the child who is obviously different and fits into the old definition of a child who is uncommunicative and in their own little world. Autistic people are different. Their brains work differently. Not abnormally, just differently. They don't consider themselves special, but they know they are different. It's time the rest of the population knew that, too.
I can see both sides of this. I have a child who was diagnosed as having Asperger's. It has been an ordeal. It took many years of testing before he was diagnosed. He had been misdiagnosed for the first couple of years of school and I'm sure some felt that he was just a bad kid and treated him as such. (I have many stories to tell, but I haven't the time. ) Subsequently, he wasn't diagnosed until he was in third grade, so I'm sure his teacher in first (and possibly second) grade thought he was just a "bad" kid. She never said that to me, but her actions and her continual insistence on pointing out to me all of the negatives and never sharing any positives (and there were positives - I heard about them from others) made me believe that she had decided that he was unteachable and she gave up. I even said at subsequent meetings that my son regressed in first grade because of her. Even now, in fifth grade, with a teacher who does understand and who does work with him to his ability, there are still others he comes in contact with, like the gym teacher, who remember him and his past behaviors and assume that anytime he is contradictory, he is misbehaving. This teacher sent my son to the vice-principal because he refused to climb the rock wall. There was no talking to him to see what was going on or why he refused, it was right to the office. I later learned that my son's regular teacher stepped in and explained that his fear of heights caused him to become so anxious that he literally couldn't do it. Given enough time and encouragement, he did finally manage to climb the wall (no thanks to the gym teacher).
This is a subject that is near and dear to me. I don't know what the answer is but I know that a 2 minute story on the news does not give us the entire story. It only tells me that someone wasn't doing there job and a child will suffer for it.
Ginny, do you mean an IEP? I'm not sure what ISP stands for.
I also want to add that an ally in the school system, who knows the ins and outs and knows the questions that should be asked and to whom those questions should be directed to, is a valuable asset. I learned so much from my mother when she was alive (she was a Special Ed. teacher) and I established and maintained a good rapport with many of the school officials who come in contact with my son that he is reaping the benefits. The sad thing is, having said all of that, it has still been a long, hard road to travel (and he still has 7 more years of school to go!)
Part of the problem when it comes to funding is a lack of a diagnosis. When a child has a diagnosis, the school must meet certain requirements to have that child's needs met. In the case of the boy in the original story, they are working on a diagnosis, but it isn't in yet. Kaye, it sounds like your son doesn't have the diagnosis either. Without that, the funding is a huge problem.
As I stated, we have two autistic boys in our kindergarten class. There are 19 students, with a teacher who has 30 years experience, an aide from 8:30-11:30 (the school day goes until 2:30) and an aide trained to work with special needs kids who spends the entire day with these two boys.
Around November of this year another boy joined that same class (we are a very small school, so there is only one kindergarten). He had no diagnosis, but was clearly in need of one. As such, there was no funding for him. At the age of five, we were his fourth school. He weighed over 100 pounds (not easy to restrain). The aide that was designated for the two autistic boys was finding herself spending every moment with this other boy. Of course, this did not fly with the parents of the two for whom the aide was hired. The school ended up having to find the funds to bring in an aide a couple days a week for a couple of hours who had no training, but could essentially shadow him and try to keep him from having meltdowns. The other children were frightened of him and the teacher spent all her time working on the social stuff and very little on academics. It was a bad situation.
Our school psychologist quickly became involved, and the team from the school was able to convince the parents they needed to get a diagnosis for the child so they would know what they were dealing with and get his needs met. After a couple months, they left our school and found a private school that could better meet his needs.
My point is that yes, there are money issues. However, there are ways to get the money and the needs met. Getting a diagnosis can take a long time and some parents resist having that label put on the kids. But with the diagnosis comes the legal backing to make sure that child gets what they are entitled to.
I guess I mean IEP. My error.
IEP's can be inadequate in these situations. There are 20 kids in my 5th grade son's class. 2/3 of them have IEP's in place. This teacher has an aide from 8:30-11:30, but obviously it's not enough. How can she possibly fulfill every detail on that many IEP's?? With such a small school, there is no way to divide the kids to avoid having them all in one class. But she is one person trying to meet the individual needs of all these kids. She is a very capable teacher and works hard for her students, but let's face it, she is one person and is stretched very thin every single day. None of these students have a diagnosis beyond dyslexia or other learning disabilities (which they do receive help for outside the classroom), so there is no additional funds available for the aide to be there full time or another aide. She deals with constant temper tantrums, one child who starts physical confrontations with others on a regular basis, another who has told her to f--- off, a desk forcefully pushed over towards her, etc. It's rarely a case of one or two kids in the class having issues where an IEP and regular communication can make the situation better. We are asking a lot from these teachers to deal with all of these issues and still manage to teach.
As for mainstreaming, I absolutely don't have a problem with this. The two autistic boys, although they have their challenges at times, are much less of a distraction to the other students and participate quite willingly most days because they have an aide working with them constantly. It's the kids who have other issues that aren't so easy to pinpoint but cause constant distractions that really challenge our teachers.
I figured it out - my boss is a court appointed attorney to a boy in foster care, and he gets ISPs - Individualized Service Program reports. For school, of course it is Individualized Educational Program.
I don't have a problem with mainstreaming if the proper support services are provided - as they are not in Melanie's son's class. Mainstreaming is a very good idea/philosophy, but legislatures have seized upon mainstreaming as a way to cut costs and funding for special education students. The problem is not in the idea, but in the way it is acted upon.
Melanie, is it that the IEPs for these children are inaduate, or that they are not being fulfilled? That is, are the acting out children "under diagnosed", or is the diagnosis correct but the system is not providing the support services called for in the diagnosis?
I don't think she can answer that, as IEP's are part of a student's record and are seen on an as needed basis by school employees - teachers, aides that are working with the student, etc.
I am shocked at how few services some of your schools provide. I was an aide for years, and now a sub. As an aide, all teachers and aides were required to be certified yearly in CPI - which is non-violent physical restraint. It basically teaches you how to diffuse a situation before it escalates and if you can't diffuse it, how to keep everyone - yourself, the student acting out, and they other students as safe as possible. At my school most of the kids with IEP's have their own aides, unless they are borderline and then you might get 2 kids to an aide, but never a student that is physical, they always have their own. If the staff realizes there is a problem that hasn't been diagnosed, there is usually an aide assigned to the classroom, but is really there to monitor the situation with that one child. It is not fair for other students to be around one child that is throwing desks, swearing at the teacher, etc. If inappropriate behavior is acted upon, the child is removed from the class before it's a problem. Sometimes, it's just a matter of the kid is getting frustrated with something (could be anything) the aide notices the early signs and takes a walk with the student, maybe to say hi to the principal or to the teachers room to help make copies, anything to distract the behavior. Also, our aides are paid well as we are all part of the teacher's union. I am surprised to see how different other schools are.
Many of the IEP's deal with specific learning-related issues. Whether it is the child who needs to be sat in the front of the class and needs to be physically touched on the shoulder and have eye contact to give him the next instruction or he can't focus on what specifically needs to be done, or the child that is dyslexic and needs oral exams instead of written ones. These are very clear cut solutions and the kids with learning issues have time each week with the Resource teacher, reading specialist, or speech therapist as needed.
The children who are disruptive don't have a diagnosis for their behavior issues. Most of these come from what they are living outside the classroom. A bitter divorce, a deadbeat dad, a new girlfriend for dad that moved into the house--things that have created anger in the child and they are dealing with that anger by acting out, breaking down, and bullying. Several are in therapy, but some are just coping. The parents in some cases don't see the problem as something they need to deal with, but rather the other kids in class picking on their child. Others are doing all they can, but can't get the problem solved due to all the other issues they are dealing with everyday. We don't have a full time school psychologist. Just one who visits several schools every few days or even weeks, and typically is on campus for very specific cases. We have a conflict resolution manager who visits the campus, but even she concedes that her methods work with *typical* kids, not the ones with deeper issues.
The IEP's get put in place as a tool to try to have a plan for the children because each individual has certain things that will help make their situation better. So the parents request them and they have their meetings and try to have everything in order so the school day can go as smooth as possible. But when you have 20 kids and 15 of them each have specific instructions on what needs to be done for them, well, at some point, it just creates more chaos to the mix and fixes nothing.
We just moved out of this community a couple of months ago, and while I have always loved our small school for so many reasons, I am looking forward to having our kids go to a larger school where there are more options in terms of how classes are put together. The problems in my son's class are mainly because they all have to be in one classroom instead of dividing them between two or three, where they could be one of a couple with special needs to be met instead of the majority of the class.
Wow, Kaye - OT here for sensory issues is $100 an hour. You had a great deal on yours ...
As a teacher I can say that I've had my share of students who did not and could not cope well in a general classroom. I had a child go straight from a hospital setting for psychological issues to my classroom. Needless to say even with all my help and support he just could not cope.
There is no excuse for the childish way in which this teacher behaved.
Ame
Ame, that was my copay, I have great insurance! I think the billed charges were closer to 120 an hour.
Kym about our loked door policy. That is standard for the area for safety. We have had one too many abductions and they think this is the best way to handle it. So if you are on the pta you can be in the building on business, but not in a specific classroom. They allow volunteers, but you must sign in. As for teacher conferences, too much time is wasted with parents chatting with teachers, which is why they have this policy. Teachers can't really chat and watch the other kids, plus it is really unproffessional to discuss one student in front of the others. Oh and means for firing in texas, expecially if they have a special ed label.
Ahhhh that makes sense now . I'm sure my insurance would never cover it.
Ame
I got my ped to "prescribe" services for 4 months at time. The OT place was very good at making sure the paperwork was all in line before starting. I was very pleased with how it all worked out, but it was a huge pain.
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