Moving because this is becoming a debate.

By Luvn29 on Friday, May 9, 2008 - 09:12 pm:

Wow. She's pregnant again! She's 41 and pregnant again. She'll be 60 when this one graduates. Says she'll keep having children as long as God allows her to. Guess she doesn't have to worry about how to take care of them when she gets older if she isn't able because the older kids take care of the younger ones anyhow.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080509/ap_on_re_us/18_kids

By Dawnk777 on Saturday, May 10, 2008 - 01:54 am:

Duggar's 18th Child

That just wouldn't be my cup of tea. I thought being pregnant twice was about as much as I could handle and raising 2 kids was as much as I could handle. It would be hard to imagine having a 7yo, right now, at 48 years old, and going to a first grade teacher conference!

According to a pregnancy calculator I just found, that makes her 6 weeks and 2 days pregnant already, as of today!

By Karen~admin on Saturday, May 10, 2008 - 08:26 am:

At some point, it's time to call it a day..........I can't imagine having that many kids.

I think they have done/are doing a fantastic job of raising these kids and they are definitely NOT your average family in ANY area.

However, at some point, with the cost of living on the rise, the economy, etc., you'd think that finances would become an issue. Imagine utility bills, medical bills, grocery bills, clothing costs, etc. for that many people. I know they buy in bulk, etc., but still, that's like having a family reunion every day of the week!

By Dawnk777 on Saturday, May 10, 2008 - 09:29 am:

Exactly! It's still 20 pairs of shoes and 20 sets of clothes, not to mention washing and putting away, all those clothes. Too much work for me.

By Marie on Saturday, May 10, 2008 - 11:47 am:

I think that its not fair for the older children. I really don't think the Mom does a whole lot not when she has 17 children to do it all for her. I also think they make quite a bit of money when they do those shows for tlc or discovery channel. I wonder if they could make it if they weren't in the public eye. Do you think that you could open your house and family to be viewed my millions of people and be scrotinized (sp?) by everyone? I couldn't do it

By Sunny on Saturday, May 10, 2008 - 12:20 pm:

I think there is a time when you need to say enough is enough. Enough stress on the body, enough stress on the finances and enough stress on the family as a unit. I guess she could conceivably continue to have children until she reaches menopause, but doesn't she take into consideration the toll it is taking on her body and the increased chances of complications? She should count her blessings and just enjoy her family now. It no longer seems to me a desire to "let God decide when their family is complete" but instead it's "how many kids can we have before either one of us keels over". JMHO

I watched the Today show's video online and I get the impression that the older kids really aren't that happy for mom and dad. Just the idea of having to schedule time with mom makes me sad for them.

By Luvn29 on Saturday, May 10, 2008 - 04:29 pm:

I totally agree. And no matter how much people try to say that she has time with all of the kids there is NO way possible to give each child the individual attention they deserve when there are that many.

The older kids are probably thinking great, another one we have to take care of...

By Dramamamma on Sunday, May 11, 2008 - 09:15 pm:

I think it's crazy too. I can't imagine what her poor uterus looks like!! (speaking like a true surgical tech, lol....)

I feel sorry for the kids as you know they can't possibly get the attention that kids need/desire.

Off topic, but my 47 year old Aunt is pregnant! She has a daughter who is 21 and aother daughter who is 25 and pregnant, they're due within 2 weeks of each other in October. I think it's CRAZY but she's taking it as a blessing and has a great attitude about it.

I'm here expecting my second at 32 with a 7 year break and have thought "what have i gotten myself into" on more than one occasion! lol...

By Bobbie~moderatr on Sunday, May 11, 2008 - 10:30 pm:

Read that they have their house and property registered as, tax exempt, they have a church in their house (basement?)..

God calls us to have common sense..

By Eve on Monday, May 12, 2008 - 08:21 am:

Wow! Can you imagine being pregnant that many times? Just insane! I feel so bad for all the responsibility the older kids have to have. Not sure what they are thinking!

By Conni on Monday, May 12, 2008 - 09:47 am:

These people live near me. Although they are a good family and the kids are the most well behaved you will encounter. I have heard they do very well financially, etc... so affording children is not an issue. HOWEVER...it bothers me that a man would want his wife to put herself thru this over and over.

Ewwwwwwwww, I personally could not do this to my body. I am completely devastated at the effects 3 pregnancies had on my poor body. I would FREAK out if I thought I was going to have to go thru it a 4th time. lol I would be happy to adopt a girl though. One that's about 3-5 yrs old, so I don't have to do diapers or bottle. HA

Wow...18 kids. I'd lose my mind after 8??? Can't fathom 18.

By Ilovetom on Monday, May 12, 2008 - 02:31 pm:

Gaw. I bet her uterus is screaming- STOP!

By Tayjar on Monday, May 12, 2008 - 03:34 pm:

I think there's a quote that goes something like, "Just because you can do something doesn't mean you should." I think that saying applies in this case.

I think she is doing a huge disservice to her older kids.

It will be interesting to see how many children her kids have when they get married and start families.

By Kaye on Monday, May 12, 2008 - 03:35 pm:

The reality is, her family is very different from mine. I cannot imagine just having one child, it seems so unfair to me, but obviously there are plenty of people who make that choice and it is right and good for them. No I don't think I would want to have 18 children, but I can really see the benefits of having a large family. A friend of mine is one of 13. He is such an amazing person. He talks about his life and his parents did such a good job. I think for some of us, the more kids we have the better job we do teaching them compassion and teaching them to share. One fine example of that is those of us with two or three kids, how many times do we buy multiples of stuff, 3 stick horses, computers, game boys. When you have 18 kids you have to make choices, it is reasonable to own 18 gameboys. I think it creates a different type of child and adult and I don't think it is all bad.

By Rayelle on Monday, May 12, 2008 - 03:48 pm:

I think if people are dedicated and can afford a large family good for them. I even like the shows of this family I've seen. However, I think there is a difference between a large family and 18! Even though I'm not a doctor I don't see how it could possibly be in the best interests of her health to be pregnant this much. I just can't imagine. I wonder if their oldest is around as much as he has been, I mean he's 20 now.

By Tonya on Monday, May 12, 2008 - 09:40 pm:

I watched all of their shows and have read many many things about this family and to me the kids are raising the kids. The older children have buddies assigned to them that they have to get ready daily and make sure their younger buddies are fed and bathed regularly. Plus they all have jobs in the home. The kids have NO privacy at all. The home has 2 huge rooms for the kids a boys wing and a girls wing. Both are just huge rooms with bed all over the place. It has school gym type showers so they can have 3 or 4 people showering at once. I don't think it is fair to the kids at all to have to raise they brothers and sisters. Plus they are all home schooled so not only do they live together and help raise each other but they also go to school with each other daily.

By Annie2 on Monday, May 12, 2008 - 11:29 pm:

Maybe they are actually polygamists and are hiding the other wives!
I say if you can provide for the kids, they seem articulate and happy, well-rounded and it's something you want to do then go for it. But I also think that having another child should be something that the family should discuss together as a family because everyone is involved and affected by each new baby.
I watched the video link of the today show and the older kids seemed a bit embarrassed when they heard that she or should I say "they" are expecting another baby.

By Tonya on Tuesday, May 13, 2008 - 12:55 am:

I just watched that video and am still on the same thought pattern enough is enough just more stuff for the kids to have to do. The oldest boy seemed mad but hid it rather well. And why does she gets all of those nice gifts from the TV people? No wonder they can afford 18 kids.

Plus I read why they stopped using the pill and I wish that on no one but condoms are not a drug but really easy to use and prevent more kids. When is enough enough? How many kids are they going to have before they start paying more attention to the ones they have? That chart to schedule 1-on-1 time with mom is crazy. I think it is wrong and they should stop.

By Texannie on Tuesday, May 13, 2008 - 08:14 am:

It's not a choice I would make, but I am in no place to judge the choices they are making. A generation ago, families of 10 and 12 were not that unusual. This family is self supporting, are not asking for handouts. Teaching children they are not the center of the universe, teaching them responsiblity, the ability to take care of themselves and others is not a bad thing.

By Kaye on Tuesday, May 13, 2008 - 08:26 am:

Texannie, I completely agree. I wrote up a big post last night and then lost it, ugh.

Just because they are different doesn't make them wrong. I just see nothing wrong with their choice.

As for the older one being embarrased, when my aunt found out that she was expecting number 3, my older cousin was 16. She just about died of embarrassment. teens don't like to think their parents are having sex.

Also read that they are debt free, obviously they are doing something right. How many of us can say then same?

By Conni on Tuesday, May 13, 2008 - 10:55 am:

For me it's the physical toll this puts on her health/body... Pregnancy and child birth is a BIG deal. IT takes a lot out of Mom. The risk of her having complications and not making it thru another delivery is real. And then the kids will be left without a mother. That concerns me.

By Kaye on Tuesday, May 13, 2008 - 11:09 am:

So Conni what should that cut off be? How many times is it okay to risk it? It is all about benefits outweighing the risks, for them it is worth it. Pregnancy can't be that bad for her, or she wouldn't keep doing this. We can't live our life out of fear.

By Jackie on Tuesday, May 13, 2008 - 11:37 am:

Ive seen this family on tv, and read lots of post on them. I agree,its thier decision to how many kids they have. I have read also they are debt free as well...
My only concern about any of this is that the new babies become buddies to the older kids. I honestly do not think this is fair. It is their choice to have all those kids, thats fine and dandy, They are two consenting adults, but having all those kids and making the older kids be buddies to the younger ones is not fair. Sure, that is the only life they know. I am not saying older kids shouldnt help out with the younger. I dont believe it should be the older kids responsibility to take care of younger kids and be responsible for them all day long.

By Dramamamma on Tuesday, May 13, 2008 - 11:54 am:

I agree Jackie. My sisters and I all have several years between us, my middle sister and I are 7 years apart and the youngest and I are 13 years apart. There were MANY times as a teenager I went places with two little sisters in tow because mom had to work or was sick, etc... It's not a fun time as a teen.

I also wonder how much of there no debt stems from all the publicity, tv shows, etc that they receive. You always hear about when quints and high multiple births are born that they receive diapers, college education, etc provided for them from places.

I recently watched a show where they had sixtuplets and their local university has already promised them full scholorships when they graduate high school. Basically for just being born!

By Texannie on Tuesday, May 13, 2008 - 06:46 pm:

And older sibling shouldn't have to look after and help out with a younger sibling? Isn't that what being a family is all about. Helping and loving one another? And of course, the sibling might complain at times. Bet they complain about brushing their teeth too. My oldest complains at times about doing stuff for the youngest. So, I should have had a 2nd child?

By Tonya on Tuesday, May 13, 2008 - 08:45 pm:

Helping out with younger siblings I can agree with but in this case after reading what I have and seeing what I have between shows and books and interviews the older kids are more the parents then the parent are. They do everything for the child they are buddied up with from the time they get up in the morning until they all go to bed. The mom goes from bed to bed and kisses them after the older buddy gets the younger into bed. They are not just being siblings they are being parents to the brothers and sisters and to me it is wrong.

By Luvn29 on Tuesday, May 13, 2008 - 10:04 pm:

The "buddy" has to help with everything from getting the younger child up in the morning, to making sure they get breakfast, to brushing their teeth, to getting ready for bed and getting in bed. Not sure how this ranks as "helping out" with a younger sibling. It seems like a little more to me. These siblings did NOT choose to have a child, so I feel like they should not be asked to raise one. It will be very interesting to see how many of these kids choose NOT to have any children of their own!

I teach my children that they are not the only person in this world. But they also know by the individual time I give each of them that to me, they are MY world.

And I totally have to agree with the above statement: what part of their lack of debt comes from everything that has been given to them?

Texannie, who is caring for your youngest all day? You or your oldest? And do they have to get an appointment for mommy and me time?

By Ginny~moderator on Wednesday, May 14, 2008 - 06:52 am:

I cannot believe so much time is being spent discussing what is the personal decision of the family. (Well, I can believe it because seeing is believing, but I'd rather not see it.)

Yes, they have cooperated with TV. They have a particular faith view they want to present, as do many others who have been publicized in one way or another. If they get paid for it, that's between them and the media.

They mind their own business, their children are well-raised and getting all the proper care and education, they have no debt that anyone knows of and they don't accept any kind of public assistance. Whatever anyone might think about her health, she seems to be doing fine so far, and it's her decision. I have read of pregnant women who were diagnosed with cancer after learning they were pregnant and chose to postpone treatment for the cancer until after the child was born, and know that's a decision I would never make. I have read of husbands keeping a comatose wife alive on life-support because she was pregnant, waiting for the child to be born - again, a decision I would not ever have wanted made for me. But it is not my decision, no one asked me, and, frankly, it's none of my business.

I agree with Texannie. It's their decision, their business. Other than it being 18 instead of 12 (or 9 - one of my bosses is one of 9 children), I don't see what the big deal is. As for older kids being responsible for younger kids, I think that's perfectly OK. And is typical of families with multiple children. In families where a grandparent lives with the family, the children become part of the care-taking system, and I'm sure some think that is unfair. These kids are at least growing up learning how to be responsible for someone else and are not likely to get caught in the trap of the romanticism of having a baby.

By Texannie on Wednesday, May 14, 2008 - 07:56 am:

Exactly, Ginny.
Luv, my youngest is being cared for my her teachers all day since she is in middle school. LOL

By Luvn29 on Wednesday, May 14, 2008 - 07:58 am:

Well Ginny, you can't believe so much time is being spent on this, yet you are choosing to read it and spend your time discussing it so I'm not sure why it is so surprising to you...

As far as discussing this, it is simply that. A discussion of differing opinions among adults. I really don't see the big deal. No one is attacking anyone. The closest anyone is coming to that is you acting as if the rest of us have too much time on our hands and are immature in our discussion. Not really appreciating that, but again, it is your opinion, so I can deal with that.

However, none us have to agree with each other's opinion. That is what a debate is all about. I have seen many discussions on here that are based on something that does not deal with any of us personally at all. As mothers, we all deserve a little time spent talking about decisions that have no bearing on our own lives. I feel like it is a much needed relief at times. And honestly, it is no different than the conversation I'd have with an "in-life" friend or my sister. It's refreshing to be able to have that on-line, also.

By Luvn29 on Wednesday, May 14, 2008 - 08:01 am:

Texannie, again, a decision made by the teacher to go into that field. Common denominator? Consenting adult. Not a child being forced to raise a child from birth.

Oh, and I can also guarantee that the teacher is not helping potty train, brush teeth and hair, get your child dressed, feed your child, bathe your child, and put them to bed...

By Luvn29 on Wednesday, May 14, 2008 - 08:03 am:

Just want to clarify also, while trying to set a new record on MV for the most consecutive posts! LOL! I have never said this family is not a loving, well-behaved group. I feel the family is providing the basic needs for all of the children. I just disagree with some of the methods used, just as I have disagreed with other methods of raising children and discipline on this board. Not picking on the family, just discussing choices that I don't feel are the best.

By Texannie on Wednesday, May 14, 2008 - 08:19 am:

you haven't checked with my middle schooler, she claims she's being forced against her will to go to school! LOL
i respect that you think it's an awful family situation. please respect that i don't.

By Colette on Wednesday, May 14, 2008 - 08:24 am:

Ditto Texannie and Ginny. My inlaws, and my inlaw's siblings all came from HUGE families. Dh's uncle is the last one of 14, the one thing I can say about dh's side of the family is that they are the kindest, most caring bunch of people I have ever met, they take care of each other and anyone else, even strangers not asking for help and I think a lot of it has to do with growing up in such a large family with everyone really helping out.

and just one little thing I want to mention about teachers not potty train, brush teeth and hair, table manners, feeding some, etc.

some of teachers do that, I did it as both an aide and a sub, not just to children with special needs, but to children who came from families that didn't teach or care enough to teach their children to do that. I also bought winter coats, toothbrushes, and clothing for some of these kids. this is totally off the subject but I wanted to point it out.

By Luvn29 on Wednesday, May 14, 2008 - 08:33 am:

Texannie, I don't feel it is a horrible situation at all. Just some things about it I feel are unfair. To be honest with you, I have more of a problem with having to schedule time with the parents than anything else. That just makes me feel sad because of the type of mother I am. So I totally respect your opinion. And my son feels the same way about school! LOL!

Colette, I have worked in the schools for four years now, so I understand that. However, that only occurs in special circumstances such as the ones you mentioned. I highly doubt Texannie's child(ren) fall into that category.

By Texannie on Wednesday, May 14, 2008 - 09:04 am:

Luv, i just feel that you took it to a personal level by singling out my children and how i parent. i stated in my OP that it's not a choice i would make, but it's one i can respect.

By Luvn29 on Wednesday, May 14, 2008 - 10:43 am:

No, I was not singling out your children. You were the first one to say that yours complains about doing things for the youngest, and asked if you shouldn't have had a second child. I was responding back to your comment and stating that I didn't think you allowed your oldest to do everything for your youngest.

Then you made the comment that your child's teacher took care if him/her all day and I stated back that I didn't think they did the things for your child that the eldest children do for the youngest.

Then I simply defended your parenting in another post stating I felt like you took care of the basic needs of your children and that the teachers were not forced to.

I know you are fairly new to the board, so you don't know me well, but everyone on this board can attest to the fact that I am not one to ever get personal intentionally and be condescending or cruel in my posting. I'm just not like that at all. In fact, I rarely post on the debate boards. The only reason I did on this one because I didn't feel as if it were an actual debate, more of a converstation.

However, if you feel I have personally attacked you I apologize. I sincerely can look back at my posts and not see that I ever said anything against your parenting. Ever.

I'll step back now and let you guys have it. I've said all I care to say about the matter. I'm not trying at all to change minds, just talk about how I feel about it. I didn't think I stepped over any bounderies at all.

By Texannie on Wednesday, May 14, 2008 - 11:06 am:

I guess that's what's hard about the written word. Things implied in writing may sound different in person.
I appreciate your apology.

By Luvn29 on Wednesday, May 14, 2008 - 11:21 am:

Yes, that's one reason I rarely post on the debate board. In person, you would never hear me raise my voice or say things in a bad tone! I hate confrontation!

And the apology is truly heartfelt.

By Texannie on Wednesday, May 14, 2008 - 11:32 am:

By Ginny~moderator on Wednesday, May 14, 2008 - 11:51 am:

Nicely handled, ladies. Thank you.

By Texannie on Wednesday, May 14, 2008 - 11:54 am:

aw shucks, mom! ;)

By Sunny on Wednesday, May 14, 2008 - 11:58 am:

Ginny, I have to say that I feel as if you chastised each of us for stating an opinion. Really, what is a discussion board without opinions? It would get pretty boring if we all agreed or, worse, didn't discuss them at all. I saw many opinions expressed about the polygamist families and discussions happening about them (and they didn't want the publicity) last month and no one considered that a waste of time. Rhetorically speaking, why is this any different?

My opinion of this particular family has changed in the past few years, but I wouldn't even have an opinion about this family if they weren't in the media as much as they are. Sorry, they put themselves out there willingly. I'm sure they realize that some people aren't going to agree with them. I thought the conversation was going well, actually. At least there weren't any attacks on the family themselves (as I've seen on other message boards.)

By Crystal915 on Wednesday, May 14, 2008 - 12:02 pm:

Ok, I've been reading this, and have long had my current opinion of these people, which is that they have the right to do whatever they want, but I strongly disagree with what they have chosen to do. I agree with Adena about it being unfair to the older children, they are basically forced to raise their siblings because mom and day have too many children to do it all on their own. Scheduling time with parents? What happens if a child has a crisis and needs mom and dad ASAP? Do they have emergency appointments like the doctors office? Also, why have so many biological children, when there are millions of children in the world who could use a loving home? I am not saying these people shouldn't have a large family, but why not give back since they have been blessed? The mom and dad seem to be very selfish people, and I can't understand what they see as good about this lifestyle. It's almost like they have a baby addiction. Raising children means more than just popping them out and getting them to care for themselves and others as quickly as possible, it means developing and teaching the children as they go through the various life stages. A teenager needs their parents as much as a baby... just in a different way.

By Bobbie~moderatr on Wednesday, May 14, 2008 - 12:06 pm:

Adena, thank you for apologizing.

I want to clarify something. The moderation does not choose which threads we are going to read. We read them all, whether we are personally interested in the topic or not. When a hot button topic arises we spend extra time staying on top of that thread, making sure that things stay civil. If we feel we can interject a voice of reason and prevent a derailment, then that is what we attempt to do. Being imperfect means we do not always come across the way we intend, but we attempt none the less, for the betterment of this site. In the rare situation that things continue to escalate after we have tried to defuse the situation, we remove the thread all together.

Ginny didn't choose this subject to be posted, she didn't choose for it to become a debated topic, but she did choose to try to interject some reason into the situation. Which often seems to be overlooked, or misunderstood, but is just a part of her (our) job.

Anyway, thank you again for getting things back on track.. it is greatly appreciated.

By Vicki on Wednesday, May 14, 2008 - 12:33 pm:

I feel that just because you have an opinion on something doesn't mean you are passing judgement on someone. I can choose a religion that is best for me, and that is my opinion, but that doesn't mean I look down or pass judgement on someone of a different faith.

That being said, my opinion on this is that it is just flat out wrong for the older children to be raising the younger ones. There is a HUGE difference between helping out in the family and raising the kids. I also understand their buddy system to be one of the older child being totally responsible for the younger buddy. Not just helping out, but totally responsible. If the parents want to have more children that is fine, but they should be the one taking care of them on a day to day basis, not the older children. If it is too much for the parents to handle, perhaps that is their sign from god that they have enough.

It really has no effect on me or my life. If they want to have 50 kids that is fine by me. But my opinion is they have enough and it isn't fair for the older ones to be the ones that have to raise kids they choose to have.

And I wish I got their economic stimulus check!! LOL

By Ginny~moderator on Wednesday, May 14, 2008 - 01:56 pm:

I don't know if I was injecting reason (thanks, Bobbie). I was expressing my opinion. I apologize to those who felt I was chastising them. I really don't like discussing other people's lives unless they ask for my opinion.

By Kaye on Thursday, May 15, 2008 - 08:25 am:

That being said, my opinion on this is that it is just flat out wrong for the older children to be raising the younger ones. There is a HUGE difference between helping out in the family and raising the kids.

I guess this is the joy of the debate board. My opinion is I flat out don't see an issue with this.

I know several people with only 2 or 3 kids who have their older child in charge of the younger child. It isn't how I choose to parent, but I don't see it is harmful and I think they do it with loving intentions.

I guess for me, that is how I look at things. What is their intention? We really don't know. But what I read is, one to glorify God. Cool, I get that. Two to love their children. So the schedule of one on one time is just that. I am sure there are plenty of impromtu time she is with each kid individually, but to make sure one doesn't get left out they have a schedule. I actually know someone with three kids, her pdoc said you must spend a minimum of 1 hour a day one on one with each child, she also made up a schedule. I had three kids the olderst being 5 at the time and I thought, yeah right...I don't get an hour one on one with mine.

By Dawnk777 on Thursday, May 15, 2008 - 10:48 am:

An hour of one-on-one time? Even with only two, I don't think that happened, every day! LOL!

By Brandy on Thursday, May 15, 2008 - 02:17 pm:

I know it doesn't happen here Dawn lol and i have just 2 also...they are older now so i don't know if it will ever happen = (

By Bobbie~moderatr on Thursday, May 15, 2008 - 02:35 pm:

I don't agree but it is a personal choice. Just not one for me. Honestly no different to me then the debate over stay at home vrs working out of home moms. Neither is always wrong and neither is always right. I don't have to answer for their choices, their mistakes and I won't get recognized for their accomplishments, so whether they are right or wrong isn't my concern.

Their children seem well behaved, they appear healthy, and on target/advanced for their ages. I think they are teaching their children to be independent and responsible. Not only for themselves but others. From what I read, their parents live by the logic they have instilled in their children. If helping to care/raise a sibling is one of their only issues in life, then they are pretty luck. Honestly, from what we have been aloud to see and hear of their lives, I know that they have done a better job of raising 17, then many of the people I know in real life that have raised two or less.

As far as having more children... Pregnancy causes major strain on your major organs, not limited to your uterus and the supporting tissue of the uterus. With the average onset of menopause being 51, she could have as few as 10 more pregnancies in her future. Hopefully, her pregnancy and those here after go well. It would be heart breaking to see (and I am sure we will) if something tragic happens to her and all those children were left motherless. As I said way above, God calls us to have common sense.

We had a 20 year old girl die of hemorrhaged during her third pregnancy (in a row), in a town near me. She was under regular medical care, seemed to be progressing well. One night was having minimal discomfort, thought she had over done it, went to bed and never woke up. She left behind two children.

By Yjja123 on Thursday, May 15, 2008 - 03:26 pm:

I, personally, could not handle that many children.
I do not think they are harming their children.
I think they are raising children who are loving human beings. I have no problem with the buddy system. I do not think they are raising their siblings, they are helping. They will grow up to be responsible children and are not the "me generation" my kids seem to be a part of (that I find myself fighting against constantly).
As far as the mommy time, scheduling it doesn't bother me either. I have 2 kids and need to make time for 1 on 1. your days slip away regardles of how big your family is.
I think they are blessed to have so many relatives that love and support each-other. I would have loved to come from a big family. If we could have afforded more children, I would have not stopped at 2.
If their TV shows have allowed them to afford their family, I say good for them. It also allows the world to see how other families function. Do I believe in everything they do? No. I do not find it harmful though. They are not like the crazy familes you see on "Wife Swap" where children are neglected or ignored and parents are fighting. I am sure every child in the Dugger family knows that they are loved, appreciated and valued.

By Sandysmom on Thursday, May 15, 2008 - 05:00 pm:

"If their TV shows have allowed them to afford their family, I say good for them. It also allows the world to see how other families function. Do I believe in everything they do? No. I do not find it harmful though. They are not like the crazy familes you see on "Wife Swap" where children are neglected or ignored and parents are fighting. I am sure every child in the Dugger family knows that they are loved, appreciated and valued."

I agree with that wholeheartedly. The only other thing I wonder is if they are allowed to or have the freedom to have their own interests or friends outside the home.

BTW, I watched the video of them on the Today show and I thought the Mom really looked nice.

By Texannie on Friday, May 16, 2008 - 07:48 am:

Kaye, is this a typo
That being said, my opinion on this is that it is just flat out wrong for the older children to be raising the younger ones.

cause it sounds like from the rest of your post you don't have an issue with their choices.

By Luvn29 on Friday, May 16, 2008 - 07:51 am:

Texannie, I was a bit confused at first, too, but then I figured out she was quoting another post and then she went on to post her opinion...

By Kaye on Friday, May 16, 2008 - 11:14 am:

yes sorry, it was a quote from the above post.

By Texannie on Friday, May 16, 2008 - 12:27 pm:

oh..ok, got it! LOL

By Reds9298 on Saturday, May 24, 2008 - 11:46 pm:

I think it's completely unfair to the other children. Big families are fine with me, but 18???! Come on! And the point of this is.....????? I'm not getting it. People can have large families (which to me is 5-7 children) and reap all the sibling benefits they will ever need. I just do not at all understand the purpose of birthing this many children.

It's their choice, and if they can afford them, it's really their business. Since it's been brought up though, I completely disagree with it. It's not like they are ADOPTING 18 needy children who have no one else to take care of them. They just keep PRODUCING more. ????? I'm not getting that. "God" has given us thousands of children that have no one and are in need of a wonderful home. I would be commending her (or anyone) for adding to a huge brood of those children. But continuing to have more? I just flat out can't comprehend it.

By Reds9298 on Sunday, May 25, 2008 - 08:42 am:

And Kaye, honestly, for you to say that having only one child is unfair but not conceding that the other extreme of having 18 children is also unfair is crazy IMO. Sorry. Unfair are people who have children who don't want them. Likewise, unfair are people who have so many children they don't know them all and cannot possibly be giving them each the attention and time they deserve.

By Kaye on Tuesday, May 27, 2008 - 12:55 pm:

Deanna, I am sorry if you got that message. I thought I stated that both of the choices are not choices I would make. I do think they are both unfair, but for me. The point I was trying to make is we all need to do what is best for us and our families and that is different for everyone. I would not choose to have only one, I would not choose to have 18. As much as I can list the things that I think are unfair, I can also list all the really great things about both situations. We each have to do what we feel is best.

And I have to say I feel this way because I personally know someone that has 13 children. Her family is amazing, they are great kids, they are great parents and it really works. I do also know people with singles that are doing a great job. But I also know people with large families (in excess of 10) that are just not any good at parenting. But throw any number in there, some people can do it, some people can't. But I would never dare think that my dear friend should have stopped at number 7, because kid 12 is pretty darn special.

I will admit it is easier for me to understand having 18 than to understand having 1. But that is just because I have more than 1. I also remember when I was pg with number two really stressing out how could I show as much love for another child and worried about all the ramifications of sharing me, etc. I found those to be so completely unfounded that the idea of a really large family works in my head.

But again let me be very clear. I think as parents we have the right to decide what we think is best. That means having one is a option as is having 18. Both of those are good options if that is what you as parents agree on and feel committed about.

BTW my friend with the 13, adopted a few, hubby had a vasectomy with number 8, had it reworked after number 10. Their option to not have more kids is to not have sex, birth control doesn't seem to be very effective. It is a little hard not to feel that maybe there is a greater plan.

By Reds9298 on Tuesday, May 27, 2008 - 09:45 pm:

Kaye- I'm sorry I misunderstood. I completely understand your viewpoint now. Thank you!

By Nanaoie on Tuesday, June 3, 2008 - 02:30 pm:

What does the husband do for a living that they can afford 18 children?

By Enchens on Tuesday, June 3, 2008 - 02:45 pm:

I believe he was in real estate previously and made some really good investments. Other than that, I'm not really sure.

By Bobbie~moderatr on Tuesday, June 3, 2008 - 11:38 pm:

I am not quite sure how they make their money, I have read, they are both licensed real estate agents and they own several commercial properties in their area. However, prior to being on television they lived in an older middle class three bedroom ranch style house with 15 children (I believe it was at the time), driving two older cars. Seems allowing TV into your life pays rather well because they sure have come a long way since their show first aired a couple of years ago.. They now live in a 7,000 square foot house they own debt free, completed and furnished by TLC, and own 9 vehicles including a 21 passenger bus debt free. I have read other rumors about how they make their money but none of it comes from the Duggars themselves so I will just assume they are just rumors, they are all over the Internet you can find them in a simple search.. They swear by a financial freedom seminar they attended 20 years ago and that it has made their life completely debt free.. However, I wonder how they can afford to support 18 children and carry medical insurance on all of them? That alone would take a great chunk of their real estate income, wouldn't you think?? I don't think it is impossible for them to be living debt free, considering she buys their clothing second hand on the discount days and shops at Aldi's for groceries per their show, but between those and paying for their utilities how in the world are they saving to buy a 21 passenger bus?? That said, I feel (have not read) that they have to be getting donations of some form, from somewhere, to off set some of their purchases.

My Aunt is a local real estate agent and she does well for herself, but not well enough that she lives debt free.


Thinking, I might need to get into real estate..

By Texannie on Wednesday, June 4, 2008 - 10:15 am:

Why shouldn't they receive compensation from TLC? No matter how welcome tv crews are, they are intrusive. If TLC didn't want to pay them, they don't have to. If the Duggars don't want to allow tv crews into their lives for free, they don't have to.
Becoming debt free isn't that hard depending on what your debts are and how you prioritize your income. Often times it does require some short term sacrafice, but it can be done.

By Bobbie~moderatr on Wednesday, June 4, 2008 - 02:12 pm:

Well, I am not saying they shouldn't be paid. I am however pointing out that they apparently had a major jump in income when they started the show because their quality of life changed drastically over the last couple of years..

By Reds9298 on Thursday, June 5, 2008 - 09:10 pm:

Ditto Bobbie. And debt free can certainly be done, but I agree with your point Bobbie regarding the medical insurance and out-of-pocket expenses for routine visits for 18 people! I can't imagine.

By Luvn29 on Thursday, June 5, 2008 - 09:26 pm:

No one is saying they shouldn't be paid. I think frankly, we are all sick of hearing how debt free they are when it is clear that they are very well compensated for their publicity. I wonder if they would be debt free without the handouts and without the compensation from TLC and any other network who have used their story. It probably wouldn't be too difficult for any of us to be debt free with the handouts they have been given and with the compensation coming from having television shows done on your story.

And by the way, becoming debt free can be very hard. Especially when medical problems are an issue... And sometimes it can be downright impossible.

By Texannie on Friday, June 6, 2008 - 08:07 am:

but they didn't have to use the money to pay off their debts or pay for things outright. they keep being accused of being irresponsible for having 18 kids, but their actions (except for procreating) are anything but.

By Kaye on Friday, June 6, 2008 - 09:11 am:

About med insurance. With my husbands company our insurance options are employee, employee plus spouse, or family coverage. It didn't cost us anymore for med insurance when we had 1 kid as when we have 3. And once kids reach a certain age they don't go to the doc that much. I had to take my 14 year old in this week, her last visit per her chart was 2006. So it all just depends.

By Dandjmom on Friday, June 6, 2008 - 01:01 pm:

I have stayed out of this from day one and had made up by mind not to get in volved.

First off let me say that I don't disagree/or agree wtih anyone , I dont' think diffirently of no one for what they have said.

Everyoen is intiled to there on opnion (too each his own)

But the first comment that I want to ,ake is that, Kaye your right most insurance companies are that way, so it cost you no more to insurer one child then it does 7 or more thats why they have family policies.

I dont' see anythign wrong in them being compensated for sharing there story. What is the difference in them being paid for there tiem , and Kim Kardashan being paid 25,000 just to show up at a night club an dtake pictures of herself( story from E!)Or what about the 6 figures piad for pictures of Halle's J-Lo, or when Angelina twins are born they are all being compensated.

Conie siad the family lives near here. I woul dliek to ask her do they charge to make apperances at public venues? I dont' think they do , they have limited there story telling to Discovery Health/TLC. and yes they are and I think they shoudl be compensated for there time and willingness to let us int htere home.

But eer wonder, maybe they did not do this? I mean do we really knwo who was the first to link this story , I mean a nurse at the hospital or a doctor or even a orderly, someone that found out that this couple has x amount of kids and wanted to get it out in the media. Just when when triplets or quads are born the parents dont' call the story in, it's someoen close to the family rather it bee a staff member or whom.

BUt if they feel this is what is workign for them , this is what makes them happy then I say it's there life, Now as far as how the children feel I can't speka on that I'm a onyl chil dand never had to care fora sibling. But at the same tiem I knwo that grownign up a lot of peopel didnt' wna tot be where thye where , a part of the family they where in, and when we where old enough we left. I dont' see any of her kids living though.

But I tell yu one thing I would pay her if she could get my two knuckle heads to listen like that, even if it's just a cact for the camers , it's still 300x's better then mines.

By Amecmom on Sunday, June 8, 2008 - 10:43 pm:

I just caught a few minutes of one of their shows on tv. I will pass no judgement on their lifestyle and their decision to keep procreating. However, why is it that "modesty" always seems to mean slovenly? I swear - where does any religion say that you have to dress like a slob to be modest or pleasing to a higher power? I know she has limited time to dress - but really ... If you are going to present yourself to the nation have a little respect for those watching and show it in your manner of dress.
Just my opinion.
Ame

By Texannie on Monday, June 9, 2008 - 08:04 am:

LOL Ame, I wonder that anytime I see the show or the footage from the people here in Texas! I don't get the long hair either.

By Karen~admin on Monday, June 9, 2008 - 04:58 pm:

Part of their beliefs is to *dress modestly*. I have seen all of the shows on them, and Michelle stated that in more than one of them. It seems that in people who have very strict beliefs where modesty is concerned, the women always wear little to no makeup, have long hair/don't cut their hair, and wear clothing that is very unflattering, though it provides complete coverage - and the women/girls always wear dresses/skirts that hit mid calf.

I personally find it unattractive, but hey, it's their belief, and if they are happy with it, then who am *I* to criticize it? As for how they look on TV, I don't think that is something they are concerned with. They are who they are, and make no apologies for it.

I would never have considered a family that large (could never have AFFORDED it in the first place.....LOL), and in some respects, my beliefs differ from theirs. However, from what I can see they are raising a healthy, happy, wholesome family, and not harming anyone in the process, so..... live and let live.

By Amecmom on Monday, June 9, 2008 - 07:17 pm:

I used to live in Brooklyn near a Sephardic Jewish area. These women dress modestly and cover their hair because their hair is for their husbands only. Even tiny little girls in the heat of summer show only the skin on their hands and faces. However - there is a definite difference between modest and frump/slob. I have seen (and on the altar have had to dress)with as little skin showing as possible) women very modestly dressed in clothes that are beautiful. If you don't want beautiful - then at least try for clean and neat. And if you are coming over to my house (on TV) then show me the respect of dressing nicely. They should absolutely be concerned about how they present themselves. They just make me cringe.
Ame

By Karen~admin on Monday, June 9, 2008 - 07:35 pm:

LOL Ame. I think some women/people in general are just slobs/slovenly and care little for their appearance. I happen to know a particular family who is like that. The 40 y/o DD looks as frumpy and unkempt as her 60 y/o mother. They don't ever fix their hair, let alone wear makeup or jewelry. They wear sloppy, baggy, ill-fitting clothes that are usually more casual than they need to be, and have zero style to them. And they have the attitude that people who DO care about their appearance are *wasting time primping*. I suppose *to each his own*.

I have no control over what anyone wears when they come to my house, I can only control what *I* look like when I leave the house. I am certainly no beauty queen, but I do take pride in my appearance, and therein lies the difference.

By Dawnk777 on Monday, June 9, 2008 - 10:40 pm:

Duggar Family Slide Show

I think they all look well-dressed in these pictures. Also, that house sure looks nice! I would die to have that kitchen, with all that space! I think it's cute how they have a canopy thingie, that says Duggar Family Diner Established 1984! (or something like that. The pictures go by quickly, so it's hard to remember.)

By Jtsmom on Tuesday, June 10, 2008 - 06:39 am:

WOW!! That House!! They all looked nice and neat in the pictures. All of the boys mainly had on nice looking polo type shirts. I don't know what they normally look like, though.

By Texannie on Tuesday, June 10, 2008 - 08:55 am:

what always kills me is the boys all look so cute and 'modern' in the polos and kahki's, so why do the girls have to look so dumpy?? LOL

By Dawnk777 on Tuesday, June 10, 2008 - 10:06 am:

I don't know. What I do know is in the slide where they show the grilled cheese sandwiches being made, they look kind of burnt! LOL! I wouldn't want to eat them! They are way past golden-brown. I'm guilty of forgetting to watch them closely, though, too!

By Luvn29 on Tuesday, June 10, 2008 - 12:05 pm:

Well, the slide that got me was the bathroom and two toilets sitting side by side! Ewww!

By Dandjmom on Tuesday, June 10, 2008 - 02:06 pm:

Mine's keep stopping. Oh no Dawn where so you suppose those grilled cheese where for everyone? because they did look burnt. I want to know how they does the floors it 's it responsiblity of all the girls or do a few share the up keep of the floors, i would imagine with all that foot traffic you have to clean them more then once a day, unless no one goes outside and or no one wears shoes in the house. Does mom and did have there own chores too does anyone know , I mean if they cook, clean, laundry, mow the lawn, rake the leaves and what ever else needs to be done , then what do Mom and Dad do? Not to be funny but is that there (free time) during chore time? They making then during soem time. who gets up with Jill( the newest baby) in the middle of the night? Becaue she surely doenst' sleep with mommy. I mean I know that none of this may not be my business, but fair is fair. it seems like every minutes of these kids time is accounted for in some way shape of form, just wondering if the parents live under strict a schedule too?

By Enchens on Tuesday, June 10, 2008 - 05:01 pm:

I went back and looked at the pic of the bathrooms. I guess I didn't "see" it the first time around. I noticed that one toilet appeared kid sized and the other one adult sized. maybe they don't want to deal with little potty chairs?

By Karen~admin on Tuesday, June 10, 2008 - 05:02 pm:

It looks as though one of those toilets is smaller/lower to the ground, which, I imagine, would be for the youngest kids to use.

By Luvn29 on Tuesday, June 10, 2008 - 08:05 pm:

Oh, I didn't see that! I always just used those things that fit in the big toilet for mine. Of course, when you have that many little kids all the time, with no future without little ones in sight, it makes more sense...

By Luvn29 on Tuesday, June 10, 2008 - 08:17 pm:

Wow, I was reading through the schedule. Looks like mom has it made! One daughter is in charge of making lunch for everyone and one daughter is in charge of making dinner for everyone.

By Texannie on Tuesday, June 10, 2008 - 09:52 pm:

your kids do all their chores without supervision? LOL
my kids do plenty of chores. their own laundry, help cook, yard work,ect. do i have it made or am i teaching my kids how to grow up and be responsible adults?

By Luvn29 on Tuesday, June 10, 2008 - 10:51 pm:

Wow, Annie, I feel like everytime I make a comment, you are right there to jump. People above me are making comments about the way they are dressed, and you are jumping right on that ship, but I don't dare make a comment about something.

And since you got upset when I addressed a question you asked specifically about your children above, I will not comment on anything to do with your children in this post.

I will say that I doubt a 17 and 18 year old require that much supervision. She already trusts them to take care of the smaller children, why wouldn't she trust them to take care of meals? They've been doing chores since they were very small so I'm sure they are pros by the time they reach 17 and 18, which are the ages of the children doing the cooking.

Oh, and yes, my children are responsible enough to do their chores without me watching over their shoulders. They are old enough to know if they don't do them right, they'll just finish them so they do it how it's expected to be done the first time by now.

By Ginny~moderator on Wednesday, June 11, 2008 - 06:25 am:

OK, ladies, cool it. It would be a shame to have to delete a thread that has received so much attention, but if there are more personal remarks it will be deleted. And this time I am speaking as a moderator.

By Kaye on Wednesday, June 11, 2008 - 08:06 am:

I just went and looked at the slide show. I will admit I have fed my kids burnt grilled cheese. I really am a horrible cook, my kids have only learned so they don't get such crappy food! I still supervise mine at 14 and 12 because I am afraid they will burn the house down (we cook with gas).

I agree with many others that modest almost always equals frumpy, I don't get it, but I guess maybe it has to do with sewing your own clothes, they probably wear things big due to hand me downs also.

Speaking of toilets. We have a restruant here that has two potties in one room...strange strange. I asked them about why, they said fire code said they have to have a certain number for their capacity. They were going to put up stalls but the room was 4 inches too small to put up stalls and meet ada requirements, hence 2 potties, no divider. LOL

By Texannie on Wednesday, June 11, 2008 - 08:21 am:

Not sure what your comment is about, Luv, but yes, I comment when people post. Thought that's what a debate is about! LOL
My point is simply that my kids have always done chores. They do more chores and have more responsibility the older they get. It just seems to me that many people imply that she has it good cause her kids are doing chores and that she must be doing nothing. Even with kids doing chores, we all know a mother's work is never done! ;)

By Kym on Wednesday, June 11, 2008 - 08:53 am:

My opinion is if this works for the family it will most likely turn out OK for the kids. I don't see anything as abhorrent or evil in what they are doing nor are they intentionally damaging the kids, they are basing their family decisions on religious and personal beliefs. The kids will be able to deipher through their own religious and personal beliefs as they get older and make decisions based on that.
The problem I see is the amount of duties these kids have, I really get sad to see kids over scheduled with activity/duties/chores/jobs/responsibilities whatever that they don't have time to simply be kids. Exploring Nature, playing, being dirty You know the FUN stuff. So much time is spent on "teaching my kids how to grow up and be responsible adults?" to quote Texannie, that we don't let them be just kids, that's what I'd like to see a video of these kids playing for the day!! Wonder if that ever happens, playing on their own, no chore, no bathing a sibling, just playing. They are not adults in training IMO, kids are kids, they learn through play, even how to become adults! I do think a tight knit family is good, and being kind, loving and helpful to siblings (older OR younger than you) is just the way to be, no options there. I don't think I'd go as far as to tell my 14 year old that she is responsible for the complete care of her 4 year old brother, imagine the burden that she would bear if something happened to him! Again too much for a kid.

I say hire hire hire, you got money, living debt free, have your house cleaned every day, make the kids tidy their own spaces and stuff out of community spaces and let someone come in and clean. Works beautifully for us OK once a week someone comes in, but I don't have that much money, my house is not that dirty and I only have 4 kids!LOL

By Texannie on Wednesday, June 11, 2008 - 03:54 pm:

Kym, I have watched several of their shows, and they play. They have gone on some wonderful fun vacations too.

and i absolutely agree with you on this part of your post....

"My opinion is if this works for the family it will most likely turn out OK for the kids. I don't see anything as abhorrent or evil in what they are doing nor are they intentionally damaging the kids, they are basing their family decisions on religious and personal beliefs. The kids will be able to deipher through their own religious and personal beliefs as they get older and make decisions based on that"

By Hol on Wednesday, June 11, 2008 - 09:15 pm:

I see plenty of "fun time" in those slides. I find this family's lifestyle very admirable. I also don't think they look slovenly at all.

By Bobbie~moderatr on Friday, June 13, 2008 - 12:21 am:

With the number of children they have a division of labor would mean, to me, that they would actually have more free time for the fun stuff.. Wouldn't you think?? Preparing a meal, unless it is a four course meal wouldn't take all day to make. Doing laundry would be like going to the laundry mat, right? They have a room full of large capacity machines. I see nothing wrong with making a 5 year old help and older sibling with a chore. Nor do I see anything wrong with having a 17 year old preparing dinner, many WOHM's do it every day.

I think their situation is open to interpretation across the board, however, this is traditionally how large family were run. I know of several women that grew up in large families and they talk about the way the family worked together to get things done and all the fun they had together growing up. I also know that it was common practice for the older siblings to help care for the younger siblings. I don't see having many children as abusive or neglectful of the other children.

However, as I stated early on, her future pregnancies cause me concern.. The knowledge of the effects of pregnancy on the body have come a long way and tempting the body to fail is just beyond me. We are called to have common sense.

I also think that them sitting on TV and giving credit to how they manage to live debt free to that seminar is not fair to the general public. They live debt free because of the publicity they have made for themselves through their choice to not prevent conception, I am fine with this, but give credit where credit is due... Like I said they have come a long way.. and they didn't do it by pinching pennies the old fashioned way.. Yet they take credit like they have. It isn't hard to live debt free, when you have someone else giving you money, making all your major purchases and paying for your vacations. How many others are going to watch them on TV, romanticize their life, turn around and end up on welfare?

By Debbie on Friday, June 13, 2008 - 09:01 am:

I think family size is a personal choice! So, I have no room to judge.

To me, the most important thing, is their family seems, happy and healthy. If it works for them, why do we care?

I see so many people with 3, 2 or even 1 child, that don't have the relationship that these people have with their children. They don't spend time with their children, let alone "parent" them.

So, to each, their own. I personally, would be insane with that many kids. But, that is me.

And, as far as the chores, with that many children, it would seem that if everyone did a little, they would have a lot of free time.