It may be a silly subject...
Moms View Message Board: The Kitchen Table (Debating Board): It may be a silly subject...
Do you find that Disney's films have become too "goody,goody"?
I love the Disney's version of Peter Pan. However, i hated "Return to Neverland" apparently the follow up to the original Peter Pan. I just didn't like the way all the original characters become nice people.
For example, Mr Smee was an alcoholic, wasn't he? Well a bit of a drunk, he liked his whiskey, didn't he? In Return to Neverland he doesn't touch a drink, when excaclty did he recover from his addiction? Also, Tinkerbell was very nasty to Wendy, she was very jealous and was very possesive of Peter Pan (so were the mermaids but i don't remember them in Return to Neverland). So what happened to Tinkerbell, why suddenly she likes her love-rival's daughter?
Another one that made me sick was Cinderella II. What happened to the bad ugly sisters who hated Cinderella. They too became nice people and now love her(I can't remember if it was one or both who make friends with Cinderella).
I love Disney's films, especially the classics, but why do they have to make the second versions? Can't they just leave them alone. What is next? The cat and the fox in Pinocchio will become the good samaritans and help Pinocchio get into university?
I don't mind having a second Lion King or follow ups for Aladdin and Hercules, but i think the classics are the classics and they should leave them like that, especially because they were famous stories before Walt Disney made films of them, so i think that should be respected.
I suppose that they try to send good messages to children, but i grew up with the Disney's classics and haven't become an alcoholic, or an obssesed girlfriend, or a bad person just because there were some "not-so-good" characters in the films i watched. i think it gives them colour and diversity and they are much more fun than all these "lovely", "mellow", goody-goody versions.
So, what do you think? I thought of posting it her because people may have different oppinions on this and i don't want to offend anybody.
Uh, no, I guess I don't agree with you, LOL! I say good for Disney! I am a HUGE fan of 'Pollyanna' if that gives you an indication of where I stand. I won't allow my kids to watch PBS 'Arthur' because the kids are so rude to each other, so there's another clue. 
Our world is SATURATED with rotten examples and tolerance of horrid behavior, so if an icon like Disney with a huge kid audience can start showing CORRECT and KIND behavior, then GREAT! I hope others will follow their lead.
I think a lot of the original disney movies are a bit scary for little kids and although I haven't seen any of the remakes, I'd be thrilled if they were nicer and a little less scary.
I agree with you Ame, I think the lessons in the Classic stories should be left alone. I was a Disney Collector as a kid, and when I watch some of the new ones I don't understand why they felt the need to change them. Sleeping Beauty was always my favorite, and it wouldn't be the same without the evil fairy, and what is 101 Dalmations without Cruella?
Thanks Crystal! but i am Maria not Ame...LOL
I kind of knew there were different oppinions about this, but i had to find out. I am glad there are different oppinions though, otherwise it would be very boring!
There's always differences of opinion on here. But I think most folks take it well.
As for me I like them all. The originals were a bit scary for me as a kid, but I survived. The sequels have good messages to them. Theonly sequel I haven't like is the Pocahontas one. Too much of a screwed up history lesson. Pocahontas died in England at about 23, I think. She's in love with John Smith at the end of Pocahontas I and marries John Rolfe in II. Trying to put the real story with that movie fries my brain.
Maria, lol I'm so sorry! I must have had mommy brain, I could have SWORN Ame started this thread!
No problem!
I still don't know how to put smiley faces...
Maria, smiley faces are simple... : ) without the space. They don't require a formatting tag like pictures do. HTH!
Geez... I read this and said, "ok, I don't think I'll get started on this one." And even though I try, my name gets dragged into it anyway ... .
But ... since it did, I'll put my two cents in.
The fairy tales the classic Disney movies are based on were never meant for children. They were for Victorian adults, who needed their stories of murder and sex and good vs. evil told metaphorically.
Eventually, they became children's stories.
Should Disney mess with the original? Why not, when these stories have been retold and played with by writers, painters, and composers for ycenturies. The Rossini opera, La Cenerentola bears little resembelence to the Cinderella it is based on, for example.
Fairy Tales and Folk Tales are representations of the culture that produces them. If our culture is producing kinder, gentler fairy tales, where the bad guys learn their lessons, isn't that a good thing? Doesn't that say we value good deeds and we believe that no matter what evil people do, they can always change for the better?
Sadly, our culture does not embrace these values Disney is trying to promote. We give them lip service. We enjoy the pretense of values, but not the practice and sacrifice involved in living them.
Do I think that the change is good? I don't know. I think children need to know that there are people who do good things, and people who do bad things.
Ame (not Maria)
But in the classic Disney films the good always wins over the bad. I am not against that, of course not, i think they set a good example, where always the baddies loose and the goodies win. I am not suggesting that it should be the other way around. What i'm trying to say is that why make a second Cinderella when the first one was good enough?
I guess i like more realistic and more colourful films where there's a bit of everything and the characters have normal qualities (like in the case of Tinkerbell, who was adorable but couldn't help being jealous of Wendy).
Of course the good should always win over the evil and that's what we try to make life about, but why everything has to be so perfect, and nice, and lovely-dovey? (i don't know what is that but it sounded right!).
I think it's kind of nice for little kids to think the world is nice and lovey dovey for as long as possible.
We own a lot of Disney movies and some of the sequels, too. I prefer to sit down and watch the originals, but my DD's like both. I think the sequels are geared towards the younger kids anyways, who just can't get enough of their favorite characters. As long as my DD's enjoy Disney, I will indulge them and if they learn a lesson about giving meanies a second chance and being kind to others-all the better. By the way, right now my girls are watching Pollyanna. Kate, want to play the "Glad Game"?
My son watches the sequels (i'm glad i can finally use the proper word, i didn't know how to call them) and i've watched them with him too. He likes them and you are right Meredith that they are geared towards the younger audience and that's ok i guess.
I am all for films sending the right message but i still prefer the quirky, eccentric characters that were in the first parts of the Disney films.
Of course i wouldn't let my child watch The people vs Larry Flyn (the only one i could think of, sorry), but as a film lover (including Disney's) i do prefer originality and reality in a movie. I love happy endings but i think film makers can work more creatively to arrive at one (I like a bit of a challenge i guess).
I know I might be the minority here and this is a very silly subject but i just wanted to see different opinions and as i said before i am glad there are! =)
Just as an added note here, the original disney films were made in a time where the entire family went to the movies. And the show was the only film at the theater, that meant that if you wanted your show to be seen it had to appeal to a larger audience than just your target audience. That is why the old looney toons and disney movies are watchable as adults, because they were not made exclusively for the kiddos to watch on DVD.
Also the old fairy tales were incredibly gruesome. In Cinderella the step sisters cut off their toes to try to fit their feet into the slippers. If you want to read some pretty twisted "childrens" stories check out the original Grimms fairy tales at your local library. Some of them will curl your hair. I think it was mostly that it was written in a time where morality was thought best taught as the good are rewarded if not now than in heaven and the bad are punished in amazingly gruesome ways.
Maria, I do agree with you that a lot of sequels lack something-but this is usually true with sequels of all sorts, not just Disney ones.
Kristin, you are right about how grim those Grimm fairy tales can be. Even the rewrites in the library can be pretty scary. My oldest DD loves fairy tales but I usually check the pictures before she grabs one off the shelf.
I wasn't a great fan of the older Disney movies, in part because of the images of women and minorities in them but after watching them with my kids I enjoy them more (even Peter Pan ). I realized that most of what I don't like can be diffused with a simple discussion and then the rest is great.
I like some of the modern movies and sequels but they drive me crazy in one respect. They DO have messages but they all seem to be themed around personal development - do what you dream, you can do anything, believe in yourself. It's like Disney is a big self-help group for kids. Is Anthony Robbins on staff??? I LOVED Finding Nemo in part because it seemed to spoof that aspect of kids films.
Ah well, for films that a kid can just get lost in try some anime like, "Spirited Away' and "Princess Monoake". disney distributes them so they're marketed in the same self-help way but really they're simply films where you can get lost in the wonder of the story.
You younger moms need to recognize that life has become more sanitized and protective of our children's mental health these days. When the original Disney films were produced, the Spanish Civil War was ensuing, and the Nazis were building their power base. By the time many of the best were produced, children were collecting scrap metal for the war effort, and noticing gold stars in neighboring windows. When Cinderella showed in local theaters, we were learning to duck and cover, and hearing of Communist aggression. The realities of daily life were far more threatening than a wicked stepmother or Queen of Hearts. I think children today also lose themselves in these fantasies. The world is different, but even more stressful. I believe good animated stories encourage a child's imagination, and give them a place to retreat from the REAL world when it's necessary.
Dawn, is Spirited Away for younger children? My son is 6 and i just thought it was for older children. Are there any other films you'd recommend?
That's very funny, about Disney being a big self-help group on personal development. I know children's films need to have a positive message but i wonder sometimes if big film companies play it on the safe side just in case someone sues them for messing up their children (it could happen, or not?)...
I'd like to see more innovative cartoons for young children. Something that's clever, and funny but not too mellow. Yeah i like them to have a positive message but also, like Dawn said, where they can get lost in the wonder of the story. That's a lovely way to put it.
I think children are too smart, and sometimes a bit of challenge in a film is not bad and if they make them think and (i'm quoting again) like Bea said encourage their imagination then it's great. I am not expecting crude realism in children's films, just innovative and creative ones.
We have the Storyteller series on DVD (unfortunately it was so short lived they all fit on 1 DVD) that Jim Henson did. It's full of beautifully produced fairy tales that are a bit darker and definately much richer than anything Disney had done.
Spirited Away did frighten the bejeezuz out of my (at the time) 2 year old but it held his attention (just as it did my daughter's and mine) so much that even when I took him out of the room he fought his way back. We're now many, many viewings in and we all still find new stuff to marvel at. And yes, it can be scary but it's in that delicious way that many kids love. It's too intense for my 4 yr old nephew however (Air Bud is too intense for him ). Depends on the kid.
Oh! there's also Kiki's Delivery Service and Castle in the Sky.
I'll think of some more.
We have the Storyteller series on DVD (unfortunately it was so short lived they all fit on 1 DVD) that Jim Henson did. It's full of beautifully produced fairy tales that are a bit darker and definately much richer than anything Disney had done.
Spirited Away did frighten the bejeezuz out of my (at the time) 2 year old but it held his attention (just as it did my daughter's and mine) so much that even when I took him out of the room he fought his way back. We're now many, many viewings in and we all still find new stuff to marvel at. And yes, it can be scary but it's in that delicious way that many kids love. It's too intense for my 4 yr old nephew however (Air Bud is too intense for him ). Depends on the kid.
Oh! there's also Kiki's Delivery Service and Castle in the Sky.
I'll think of some more.
Thanks Dawn!
I'll look for them in my local library.
I agree with Colette
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