Andrea Yates conviction
Moms View Message Board: The Kitchen Table (Debating Board): Andrea Yates conviction
has been overturned by a panel of three judges. She will be retried. I just heard this on the news.
I always thought she should have been declared legally insane due to her post partum depression and the drug she was taking for it. Such a tragedy. Hopefully with a new trial she will be able to get the help she so clearly needs.
Wow,this will be interesting to follow!
Thank goodness. I hope they find her insane and get her the proper psychiatric help she needs.
Post-partum or not, I have no sympathy for this woman and am upset by the decision to retry.
The appeal court ruled that an expert witness for the state, Dr. Park Dietz, lied when he said that Yates might have been influenced by a Law and Order episode about a woman with postpartum depression who drowned her children in a bathtub. Dietz was indeed a consultant to the Law and Order program. However, there was no such episode, so he lied. The appeals court ruled that there was sufficient reason to think that the jury may have been influenced by this false testimony, so a new trial has been ordered.
It is possible that this was one of the factors that caused the jury to find her guilty but not insane, rather than not guilty by reason of insanity.
My personal opinion is that whatever happens to Andrea Yates should happen to her husband also, who is the one who wanted all those children, who persuaded her to be a stay at home and home-schooling mom, and who knew darned well she was suffering from severe depression but chose to do nothing about it.
I agree whole heartedly Ginnay, her husband is just as guilty. Living here in Houston all I can say is not again, it was crazy during the whole trial BUT I am happy to hear that they are retrying it because I feel she needs "true help" because she has some serious problems.
It is interesting to read all his interviews. He such a lying sack of poo! Their house sold this summer (it took it 6 months and it sold for less that 100,00, when it was worth 150,000). He filed for divorce also. The sad part to me is he will probably move on and emotionally abuse some other woman.
He said how was he supposed to know that she would hurt the kids. Their house was trashed, she barely got out of bed. How could he not know? She was obviously hurting them emotionally at the least, he should have done SOMETHING!
However, that being said, she is sick, very sick and whatever we do to her will never compare to the guilt she will have to live with. I don't think she will ever be healthy enough to live outside of confiment of some sort.
I didn't see this, and just posted another message. I think she does need help but that does not excuse what she did. A mental hospital is too good for her. That might sound harsh and a lot of you might disagree with me but I think her and her husband both belong on death row. She had a chance to get help before she murdered 5 innocent children. Just my opinion. I hope I didn't offend anyone. I work in court and I see this kind of thing way too often.
I think that the appeal is correct. The prosecution used the law and order testemony to try and prove that she knew what she was doing at the time of the murders. The law and order episoid doesnt exsist. Did she murder her kids, yes, is she a nut job, yes. I honestly hope that she really is nuts, and never will get better to understand exactly what she did. If I was as psycho as I think she is I wouldnt want to get better, I would never want to face my own guilt. As mentally healthy individuals we feel guilt for tiny mistakes we make w/ our kids and the guilt we feel if we feel we could have prevented them from harm. You have to go *way* outside normal reality and sanity to one by one take your kids and drown them. I never thought she was the criminal in this case. The husband however.....
I totally agree with Ginny, it seems to me that if they would have stopped at baby #4 this *may* not have happened in the first place, she was on her way to being not so crazy. Then her husband wanted another child...now THAT is insane!
She did try to get help. And she tried to commit suicide and was hospitalized (and shortly released, as happens in our insurance-driven mental health care system). I do not in any way want to diminish the terrible tragedy of the deaths of the children. But this is a major failure in our mental health system, and a major failure on the part of her husband and her doctors.
Personally, I'd like to see, in every state, a guilty but insane verdict option, so that the person is sent to a mental hospital for life, rather than a prison. Texas, unhappily, does not have such an option.
BTW, not only did the doctor lie on the stand, the prosecutor (who, with any minimal kind of investigation would have known better) referred to the fictional episode of Law and Order in his closing arguments, when he was trying to persuade the jury to find her guilty. I have personally seen such prosecutorial misconduct in cases where the prosector referred to non-existent evidence or to matters which the judge had ruled could not be introduced in evidence. And, on appeal, such convictions were overturned, as they should be.
Well, after the East Texas woman was found innocent by reason of insanity fairly recently ago, I was hoping they would take another look at Andrea's case.
The cases have similar facts - isolated homeschooling mom with warped religious beliefs and a clueless DH kill her Biblically named children in the name of God (the other one stoned her kids to death). It just didn't seem right Andrea was in prison and this other lady was in a psych ward, esp since Andrea seemed even more emotionally disturbed than the East Texas one.
And I bet the other Texas woman who recently killed her daughter - similar situation as above, but this one cut off her babies' arms and she bled to death - gets the same thing, innocent by reason of insanity.
I am not sure of all the legal issues involved in these cases. I do know that ppd can be horrible and cause many things. I don't think that anyone that tortures and kills their innocent children should be allowed to be in a minimum security psych ward drawing pictures and getting adavan and other numbing drugs for the rest of their life especially at tax payers expense. Anyone who murders their children like that has mental problems and severe ones, but you also have consequences to be dealt with regaurdless and it should involve at least prison (imo death). It is not normal behavior or thought patterns that lead to behavior like that, but all murderers do not need to be in a mental institute. Prison is a good option. Imagine the torture those children suffered. A lady stones her children!! She cuts off the arms and lets the baby bleed to death!!! that is gruesome. The person responsible needs to be punished and the psych ward won't cut it. Those of you have have sucked a babys nose or given nose drops can relate to what a struggle that is and you can't wait to get it done. Imagine the struggle while being drowned. She then wraps them in blankets and then chases down the next kid. That is beyond words. It is easy to make her the victim and her husband evil, but he is not the one that did those horrible things. He has some responsibility for not getting proper help for her, but lets not minimize what happened to these poor innocent babies. OF COURSE SHE IS MENTALLY ILL, but lets still give proper punishment. If it was a man we would not even think twice about whether he deserves prison or even death.
Sorry Juli I disagree. You dont kill people because they are ill. Mental or physical. I in no way believe that Andrea should ever be allowed to roam free in this world but likewise because of her illness she shouldnt be killed either. Let God decide the right punishment for her. Judgement will come soon enough for her.
Murder is not an illness. I think that every murderer can probably be diagnosed with some kind of mental illness. We shouldn't let that be a scapegoat and let people off so easily. I am not denying that she has mental problems, but we also cannot ignore the attrocious acts of violence she committed. I am just surprised that so many people have so much sympathy for someone that does that. I mean she didn't just do it once, but to all five of her children. It was premeditated cold blooded murder. She did it on purpose. She was depressed and has very warped religious views. That just isn't a good enough of a reason to release her from prison and put her into a mental ward.
I'm sticking to my guns. If you are psycotic, which I believe she was, then you have a diminished responsibility to your actions. You and I would never take our babies and drown them, we are healthy individuals. She did drown her babies. You have to go way outside normal sane behavior to take 5 of your children that you gave birth to and cared for and drown them. That is sick, you dont kill people for being sick. And she did try to get help, but nobody was there for her. She didnt do it because she was angry, she didnt do it because she was frightened, she didnt do it to make her life better, she did it because she was nuts.
Yeah no question she was nuts. so the many other murderers that killed not out of anger or maliciousness (notsure if even a word) but who was just a psycho, do you think they should be in a mental institute also? I mean I am sure you have heard of other gruesome murders and thought " man you have to be psychotic in order to do that". I just don't think that is a good enough reason to take someone who did such violent acts out of prison and put them in a mental insititute. She belongs in prison. Do I think that she could get some help or medication in there sure she can and probably is, but lets not lower the consequences or the standard that people have to live up to. Let her off and I am sure we will see an influx of those pleadings by women who have gruesomely killed their children and think that at worst they might get a mental insitute (wich is no fun but better than prison).
I don't think she is every going to be released into society again. The public would go crazy if she was allowed free.
If you are now in control of your mental state today do you go to prision or mental institution?
Why are people in mental institutions if they hare in control of their mental state. Isn't a mental institution only for people who are out of control? Else I am confused.
I believe she didn't take her medicine or something and that is why she got in a bad place.
Now she is taking her medicine so is she better?
Actually letting her live is probably harder for her than dieing. If she knows what she did, which I think she does.
I tend to agree with Juli though, this woman will be in a mental institution, I'm sure she will be drugged, and probably feeling very little pain over her murders. If she was so sick, why not kill herself instead of the children?? Crazy or not, that's a special kind of twisted, and I think it deserves a special kind of punishment. She didn't have to harm her babies, she could have walked away from it all, or killed herself. She wanted to live, but didn't want to have those kids.
I agree mostly with Juli, murder is not an illness. You would HAVE to be mentally wrong in some sort to kill someone. I was pretty disturbed with the overturn. I think she deserves to be where she is at. I don't think there is help for her. Like Feona says they will never turn her into society.
And besides what would definition of the proper help be. Someone to get her in a healthy mental state? IMO that can never happen. Because if they could get her back to "normal" she would realize what she had done and that alone would make you crazy, if she were truly "normal" she would not be able to live with herself with what she had done. I just think there is no turning back with this.And Palm said it even if your crazy there were other options.
Actually I guess this summer they did have her somewhat back to normal and she did try to kill herself. I think to murder there has to be something wrong with you, but that is nothing compared to her. She was hallucinating and living in a whole different exisitance. Just listen to him speak some, my gosh, think about domestic abuse cases where a normal person becomes this very meek mild person. He knew she was going to do this. I would not have a hard time believing it was his idea. One of her statements said "there is something wrong with all the children, none of them are developing normally". That sounds like a complaint from a hubby to me. Also I read that a week before she had filled up the bathtub and he came home and drained it. HE KNEW! Does this show premediatation? Maybe. It does show that she felt her only option for those kids was death, if she wasn't just completely pyscho, then think what those living conditions much of been like for them, for her to think that is the only option. Also Rusty has been on many shows saying how much he helped out etc, his first interaction with police was as follows. He showed up, his wife had called him. The police say, let me get you a glass of water, his response, "not like you will find a clean glass in this dump, the dishes are always dirty." Geesh, lots of help there man. Hire a maid, or a nanny, let your wife use preschool. Only years before he had her living in a bus. He filed for divorce a few months ago and publicly stated that he married for companionship and to have a family and he no longer has either. He is off and I think he should feel lots of guilt for his involvement!
He may have filed for divorce but who would marry a whack job like him? He is a piece of work!
She didn't have to harm her babies, she could have walked away from it all, or killed herself
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If she could have done any of those things she likely would have. The fact that she didn't might go a long way to helping understand just how far depression and pychosis can take a person away from sane.
I can imagine her being so deeply depressed there seemed to be no option. That she loved her children dearly but felt that if she walked away she'd be lost to them, if she went for help they would be taken, if she killed herself they'd be left alone. I can imagine that drowning them in a tub might seem, to someone who's life is unrelentingly dark and has little reason to think her children's lives would be different, a kindness and a way to keep them from suffering any of the above options.
I don't know exactly where she belongs but I don't think she deserves death. Her husband, church, community, etc. would be absolved if all responsibility were pinned on her and then wiped out with her execution.
She didn't kill them because she was hallucentating? Like they were possessed?
Why did she think she killed them? Does anyone know?
What I have heard is that she felt like something was wrong with all of them, developmentally and spiritually and they would not grow up to be okay. And that is was her punishment for having "bad" kids and her only hope for salvation was to kill them.
So what is the difference between her and Son of Sam? I am just curious why their is sympathy for her but not for the Son of Sam. (Despite the difference that he terroristed a city....)
I think it's partly because a lot of women have experienced PPD and think that it's a there's a thin line between where they were and where Andrea Yates ended up. I know I was depressed after my first and never sought help. I don't know if I would have recognized the point where I was dangerous to my child but I do feel fortunate to have had people around me that likely would have seen that and offered me the help Andrea Yates never got.
I think it also because she was never a danger to the general public like Son of Sam was.
I think too, his hallucinations are suspected to have been fabricated.
Why more sympathy, well for me it is partly because I have been very close to where she was. Also I guess since I have met him and seen where they lived and who they are friends with, I just keep thinking, just how bad were things if she felt like she was "saving" her kids. When you have a loved one dying of cancer the thought crosses your mind that it would be easier to see them die than to see them live this life. Whether she was right or not, I cannot imagine feeling that way about your kids. As far as other crazy killers, she didn't hide from this, didn't run from authorities, she didn't continue to terrorize. What she did was horrible, but I just can't help but think in her mind she was helping them to escape. I wonder how much more of what was going on in that house that we don't know.
The thing that makes me lose that sympathy is she didn't kill herself. How can you think your children need out, but you don't. In other cases I think we hear of motives like having a new boyfriend, needing to move on, etc. She didn't need to be rid of her kids for her. I can understand snapping, but at what point do you come back. But if she had killed one then called the police she would of been in prison and those kids would have been raised by him.
I don't know, it is so terribly sad. Our tv shows pictures after pictures of the kids, we get videos etc. Rusty does have a nice memorial website i think it is www.yateskids.org, not sure though, you could do a search if you were interested.
Don't minimize what was done. So what she didn't run away or deny it. She still committed horrible acts of torture and violence. Those kids knew after the first one or two that they were going to die. She even chased them down. You make it sound like it was better for them to die than be raised by their father. I don't doubt she was sick and was not gotten the help she needed.
I think she thought she was helping them not from their father, but that they were somehow possessed or something. She was helping them go to heaven or something. I don't know the details of their life, but I do not blame it all on the husband. I don't think we should let her off so easily. I would have sympathy for her mental problems before she killed all her kids, but I just can't find it in me after the attrocious acts she committed.
Well, it was attrocious, and it was probably contributed to by many factors, factors which I don't think came out in court.
I agree with Ginny, the hubby is just as responsible. He thought that they had the ability to heal her without therapy. They were goin to make it happen through some sort of miracle. He sounds as twisted as David Koresh (sp?)
She believed that the kids were doomed to go to hell if she did not kill them and save them from that fate. She had been officially diagnosed with PPD and her hubby refused treatment or help of any kindfrom the family or the community.
How am I doing so far?
If she was in a state of phsychosis when she killed the kids, and she truly believed she was doing something good for her kids, then she is not evil.
Evil is committing murder, knowing it is wrong, hiding it, hiding from the authorities, doing whatever you can to cover it up, and then being angry with your consequences. That was not Andrea.
My MIL is mentally ill. She has a lot of compassion for others who are mentally ill as well. She can relate to what they may be going through, having been there herself. However, she took control of her illness and has been in therapy for the past 25 years. She gets frustrated with people who are mentally ill, know they are mentally ill, and do nothing about it.
Andrea needed help. She wanted help. Her hubby forbid it.
He may as well have drawn the water himself.
he did not forbid her help. Read the documents on the website mentioned above. she was hospitalized many times and seen a doctor many times in her home. i also agree with the part of how she jnew it was wrong to do what she did. there are many indications that she knew the differrence between right and wrong. although they do prove very well that she was very sick. BOTH of them did refuse electric shock treatments though. So i don't know where the info is coming from, but there are court docs that shed light on many things. I think that even though they did know that she was sick I don't think he ever suspected she would do something like that. I mean would you? I don't think he even imagined it. I think that she planned it and waited for oppurtunity and indicated that she knew it was wrong and illegal. So maybee you are just quoting what you heard people say or somehting but you might find it interesting to read the actual court docs. It even goes into the false testimony.
Okay then, I stand corrected. You are right, I was thinking about what I read way back when the story first broke, and honestly, from that point on, I chose not to listen or read about it b/c it was so gruesome. So, I apologize for jumping in with blinders on.
I wasn't thinking she knew it was wrong. After all, she thought she was doing them a favor.
But I still think he's a jerk! He knew she was so unstable, so why did he leave all the kids with her alone???
I don't know they suspected she would harm the kids. But she had attempted suicide more than once, it isn't a far cry. He did know she couldn't handle being alone with the kids, his mother came over every day when he left for work. His mom was running late that day. Maybe she thought she would get stopped. Also she did not chase down many of the kids, she did chase down one of them. Also after reading documents officially their initially phone conversation was A "you need to come hom", r "what is wrong", A "you need to come home" r "what is wrong with the kids". He had some idea. My hubby would never of jumped to the conclusion that something was wrong with the kids. I have read several court documents, I just don't agree that she really got what she was doing. Honestly if she wasn't sick she wouldn't be in jail now. Her conviction was thrown out, they have no reason to have her in jail. Most other criminals would not be kept unless they were a flight risk. She and her lawyer haven't even considered having her out, because they know her best placement is with full medical care.
Andrea Yates does not have PPD she has PPP (postpartum psychosis).
What You Need To Know: Post Partum Psychosis
History/Facts:
Often referred to as puerperal psychosis (PP) this is the rarest form of post partum illness. It is said to affect 1% to 3% of all new mothers.
Statistics show that 70% of mothers who experience puerperal psychosis will have shown no prior signs of mental illness. The defining factor of post partum psychosis is that the patient suffers a break with reality and becomes delusion. She may show signs of post partum depression, but she will also have feelings of suspicion and distrust of the people around her. She may also begin to believe that there is something wrong with her child, including a belief that the child is divine or demonic.
Common symptoms include:
* fear of being alone
* hostility
* over activity
* anger or aggression
* severe depression
* unexplained crying
* hallucinations
* delusions
* paranoia
Post partum psychosis symptoms generally present themselves within the first 4 weeks after giving birth, but can appear up to 90 days after delivery. Preliminary studies also indicate that if a mother has suffered from PP during one pregnancy there is a 20-25% chance that she may suffer from it in subsequent pregnancies.
Cause:
The cause is unclear. Some possible factors being discussed among physicians include the change in hormones, psychological and social insecurity, and/or the release of substances in the breast milk which can influence the mental functions and somatic conditions.
Treatment:
Post partum psychosis is treatable by medication, regular psychiatric care, and hospitalization combined with medication and counseling for serious cases.
Clinical trials using estradiol have shown positive results in treating post partum psychosis .
Support:
* Postpartum Support, International: 805.976.7636
* Depression After Delivery, National: 215.295.3994
* Postpartum Depression, National: 800.994.WOMAN
* Posptartum Stress Center: 610.525.7527
In The News:
The most well known case of post partum psychosis in the current news is that of Andrea Yates, a Texas woman convicted of killing her five children. The defense claimed that she suffered from post partum psychosis.
Instead of assuming things about someone you do not know and hanging them out to dry. You should read up on what you are talking about so you state a clear case. Court records and news paper articles are slated views on a subject, as with the whole Dan Rather/Bushes military record proved with out a doubt. If they aren't going to take the time to research info on the President what makes you think they are not adding fluff to make a more sensational story. And anyone that knows anything about court knows that the trials are led and things are taken out of context. Second of all, Until you walk in a persons shoes you shouldn't judge because we all fall very far from perfect in our own lives. Andrea Yates will never see freedom again. Her condition is not curable it is treatable. Meaning she will never get better.... Prison is clearly not what you think it is. She has no freedom to walk the streets but she also is not sitting in a 4 by 4 room thinking about what she did all day. They have way more free time for "crafts" and such.. You want her to pay for what she did??????? Send her to a mental hospital where she will be treated with proper medication and she will be able to feel and see what she has done. The mentally ill in prison are sedated not treated for their illnesses which means she is going through life in a numb haze, what exactly is she paying back for in that state?????
Electric shock treatments...... Do you know what this means???? Do you understand what this does to a person???? She wouldn't have been able to kill her children because she would have been a walking zombie. Her support system failed her and she did not receive proper treatment. A mentally ill person has got to have a, solid/strong/supportive, support system to be able to achieve proper treatment and IF you have not lived it you have no clue what that in tales...
Infanticide is the leading cause of death in infancy.. This is not something new. It has gone on since the beginning of man. Instead of sitting here acting like Andrea Yates is the only woman to kill her child, instead of being mad/upset with her we need to be upset about the fact that people in this day and age are being left to suffer with conditions like this..... That unless we are running down the street naked pulling out our hair we are left to suffer in silence. That our culture sets us up to strive for a perfection that is unattainable and punishes us when we don't meet the required norms.. So people lie and hide their truths...... Andrea Yates did a horrible thing. She will never walk the streets again. Instead of key holing this as her problem, why is this not being seen as a cry for help for the rest of our hurting women??????? How many babies do you think were saved because of her actions. How many women saw themselves slipping and got help??? For every negative in life there is a positive that can come from it. MADD, was started by mothers that lost children to drunk drivers. All your research into and cancer programs where spear headed by people that lost or all most lost someone to cancer.. Turn this into something or get off the soap box. Because this will happen again and again and again until something is done to help the mothers that suffer...
I will say it again, Andrea Yates will never walk the streets again, her condition is not curable... She will live and die with what she did locked up somewhere. Her children died at her own hands and NOTHING will bring them back. But actions instead of opinions just might save the lives of the hundreds of other children that will die this year at the hands of their parents.........
Amen, Bobbie.
Here are a couple of links that might give you a better insight to Andrea Yates herself and Psychosis/SCHIZOPHRENIA. I suggest them because they are well written and easy to read although they might be a bit long, I suggest you read them through.. Because if you are going to stand and form opinions about something you should know what you are talking about before you speak.....
ANDREA YATES: ILL OR EVIL? (CourtTV.com)
Law Yates' attorneys won't seek release (CNN.com)
American Academy of Child and Adolescent Psychiatry. Psychosis (simple explanation)
Psychosis (simple psych/psychosis, little more info)
SCHIZOPHRENIA (also from simple psych/psychosis)
Psychosis (Mediline Plus Medical Encyclopedia)
Andrea Yates and many people like her are not clear cut cases of right and wrong there are many factors that apply life is not black and white. To sit and look at life through your "sane" eyes and make assumptions with out clear facts is what makes these people hide behind lies and not get proper help. If you read the articles on Andrea you will see that she hid her complications/symptoms from her family and most importantly from her doctors. She lied and manipulated because this is part of the condition. It is self destructive. The goal of the mentally ill mind is to destroy the body and/or the lives of the person/people they have in their lives.
Do I know of what I speak?????? Yes, I sure do...
My DH has been receiving care for mental illness for 18 years....... Prior to that he self medicated. The best we can figure his mental illness was triggered when he was a young child and escalated when he went through puberty. It took 15 of the 18 years to get the truth about his infliction. He (out of fear) covered up/lied about his actual symptoms. But mental illness progresses over time and the symptoms got out of hand to the point he knew it was tell me so I could get him help or kill himself. Those were his only two choices. His original diagnosis was depression, then it was major manic depression with a bunch of little friends (social phobia for instance) and then it became bi polar disorder with bordering psychosis episodes. Until his last break down three years ago tomorrow (yes I remember the dates of every time I have had to admit him into the psych ward) he had not admitted the full truth of his condition..... I saw the signs and I saw him going down and I saw this thing beating us and I started reading and reading and reading everything I could get my hands on. I am actually the one that discovered his true condition... I am the one that has encourage medication changes or refuses changes if I have just cause and I am the one that makes sure he takes his medication, goes to his doctors appointments/I talk to the doctor (whether he (dh) gets mad about what I have to say or not), he will lie to the doctor at a drop of a hat and I have to make him accountable or he won't be. I also monitor his daily living....
Schizoaffective disorder (a bit about the condition DH has)
A mentally ill person CAN NOT be left to deal with the illness on their own. It doesn't go away, it only subsides and generally the next attach is worse than the one before. So can I see how Andrea Yates could have done this, yes I can. Can I understand where she was in her emotional state when she did this, yes I can. As I stated, mental illness progresses especially when not monitored and treated. So what started out as sad became insane. You can not sit and say looking at things through the eyes of a sane mind that she knew what she was doing because you do not know what a mentally ill mind does/how it works... You are judging her by your thought processes... But her mind doesn't process like yours dose.
Andrea Yates will spend the rest of her life incarcerated be it in a mental institution or a prison. This is not a concern to debate because you are not the ones that will sit in that jurors box and decide. You want to debate, read up on the mental illness clause in your state. Find out what constitutes mental illness. Are the lines clear cut? Do they meet the knowledge of mental illness in this day and age? Or are they out dated (as in the case of Texas)? If they are outdated take a stand, write your congress man, the president of the united states, your local paper.. Andrea Yates could be your mother, your sister, your best friend, or your child...... We don't start out in life thinking.. When I am 36 (I believe she was) I will kill my children. Andrea was an over achiever (valedictorian of her high school, super mom) smothering in a world that sets unachievable goals for women that as hard as she tried she couldn't achieve. She was isolated and mentally disturbed.... She had no support and her condition was handled haphazardly (many different doctors, improper records, insufficient medical information shared between doctors).. And she lived in a home with a controling/overly zealous man who sat back seeing the signs and brushing them off for his own wants and desires (as many children as God would give them, living in a cramped travel trailer with no outside contact, insisting one home schooling etc.).
You all want to think if she is found insane she will walk but she can be detained in the institution for life/until she is 77 as ordered. The decision the jury is to make is which type of institution will suit her needs the best, not if she will be found innocent. She has plead guilty and she will be detained either way. And she honestly was hoping to be put to death and has tried to kill herself while in jail. So it isn't like she is saying, "Forgive me I was nuts for a second there but now I am okay...".
This should be used as a learning example so those children didn't die in vain. It is a travesty the way that the mentally ill people are dealt with in this day and age (making reference to her original treatment).
And the sad part, just like with everything else. This story and stories like it will get their 15 minutes of fame and then they will become faint memories and one day we will hear the name Andrea Yates and have to struggle to even remember what she did. Because in the heat of the moment we are all so ready to jump on our high horses and accuse but in the end our attention span falter and we go back to the same old routine lives until the next earth shattering event occurs... We all know that we shouldn't/have no right to pass judgment but yet when the opportunity arises we are right there looking for the biggest stones we can find and crying when those stones are thrown at us.
Look at the big picture, not just her actions. Her actions were the means to the ends but this all started way before that horrible morning. How many other mom's out there could look at her story and say, "that could have easily been me"? How many mom's have been at the end of their rope and had lapse of judgment and felt guilty for it later? Yes you might have just smacked your child or said something you shouldn't have not realizing it until the fit of anger subsided. But these are also cases of a mental lapse of judgment and instead of saying, "I would never." you should be saying "and by the grace of GOD go I." Meaning you are fortunate not to have suffered from her infliction. There is no need to hate her because what is done is done. But it is key to learn from her.. Prevention will save the lives of many... And until the out look on the mentally ill changes unfortunately there will be no prevention. Because the 15 minutes will slide by and we will move on. Children will die and we will have the same response because we have learned nothing from this. And we will continue to learn nothing as long as we all want to walk around in our pretty little bubbles pretending and only accepting what the world perceives as the norm....
Stepping down now. Sorry so long but I live with the judgments of mental illness every day in my life. If the mental illness community was better received than the mentally ill could get better treatments and such situations in the future might be avoided.
Bobbie, you are right, and I apologize for my judgement. The mother bear in me wants to hurt her for hurting her children, but a life sentence is life regardless of where spent. I think the reason this strikes a chord with me is the recent pregnant woman in a TX mental hospital (we debated on it a few weeks back), it give the impression of a more relaxed institution than prison. I don't want to see her given freedoms after such a horrible crime.
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