How food stamps should be used
Moms View Message Board: The Kitchen Table (Debating Board): How food stamps should be used
ok i try not to judge people with food stamps .. th lady might have been buying the sodas that were on sale for a halloween party and that was her donation for her kids ... im giving her the benefit of the doubt ... i was on food stams at one time got in a bad situation and didnt have a choice at the time ... yes i was driving a mercedez benz (sp)and lived in a nice home but no one knew what was going on in my home .. so i refuse to judge anyone that use them. saying that ... i also dont think u should abuse the system ...i didnt buy steaks ... ididnt smoke or drink alcohol... i bought what was on sale and used my freezer to stock up on the things that i bought with my food stamps cuz i knew i wouldnt be on them forever ...and would need to feed my children .. i used the money and food stamps the best way i could for the good of the family ... now if someone is buying items that are not nutritional and going to be for the children to keep them healthy then they shouldnt be used ..i agree with insaneusmcwife u have hit the nail on the head ... technology duz have the means to seperate the way food stamps are spent ..and i think it should be ...sorta like wic vouchers are ....and if they call u crazy insane lol im in line with ya !!!
I agree that you used food stamps appropriately, Jewlz.
And I agree that we should not be judging other people unless we know the whole story.
I do think technology can sort out what is allowed and what is not. However, I suspect that each retail establishment has to enter the items in their computers for the cash registers and if the store doesn't it is not following the rules (which doesn't excuse the individual who is abusing the system).
I think that for the system to change & work for those that need it everyone needs to want that change. Unfortunatly not everyone does & those that abuse the system will continue to do so.
They should only be allowed to be used for nutritional food items period.
Here in WY the are also only supposed to be used to supplement your income. A friend receives only $100.00 worth of food stamps a month for her & her daughter. She buys anything special with her own money. Considering she only makes $660.00 a month, they don't get treats often, but makes due with what they have. Her theory is that if you are smart with what you buy $100.00 goes a long way. She also says generic is just as good as name brand.
So my question then is this.....is it wrong of me to buy my kids doughnuts once a month? Because others choose to abuse the system should those of us who don't be penalized as well? Or does once a month constitute abusing the system? From my kids' point of view, should they be penalized from a treat because we are financially challanged? I know how to shop very well. I know how to buy healthy and make it last. I think that is beside the point. What if the food stamps are the only means of buying food? If I'm responsible for the baseball game snack should I be limited to buy certain things? What kid wants to bring apples for a baseball treat? What if I need a birthday cake for a family birthday celebration for my child? You never know the circumstances people are in. I also want to point out that cash on those cards doesn't necessarily mean it is coming from public assistance. My ex had one and that is how he got his veteran benefits. You can get disability money on the card also. Its very easy to assume that you know the whole situation. Its no one's place to judge, I think, unless unless it is a truly conistent, gross abuse of the system. And then it is up to the state agency to decide.
Kim is right. And we have had this debate before and I have avoid it it but I am going to lay it all out, so here we go... You have no idea why anyone is on the food stamp program. You have no clue how much they receive. And you are assuming they are abusing the system. In the state of Ohio if you do KinShip Care (take in a young family member) you qualify for food stamps no matter your income (they go after the parents to return the funds). IF you take in foster children you get food stamps (once again they go after the parent to return the funds). IF you are disabled you get food stamps. And then there are always the people that have fallen on hard times and the people that abuse the system. But the thing is you can't tell them apart.
And do you know that there is a program out there called Jobs and women and men on cash assistance go through this program. They have to work to receive help. If they don't work through the program or attend full time school they are bumped off of assistance. There is no exception to this rule. If you are disabled you get your money through SSI or SSD not welfare.
IF a person receives Cash assistance with out having to work it is always because of lack of support from the other parent. Which the welfare system then takes the unpaying parent to court to get the money back. Parents that are married do not receive ADC (cash assistance/aid to dependent children) Note dependent children means dependent on the state for support. Those are the kids who's parent doesn't pay, has died, or is in jail or that type of thing..
I am also on Welfare assistance.... My DH is on Disability. We qualify for the medical card, which off sets his medicare. Medicare doesn't cover his medication, which he has to have.. IF there was medicare reform or a cap on the amount we are charged for medication then we might have been able to cover the cost with out help BUT that is not the case. So to be able to treat his illness I had to do what I had to do. But you see, to get on assistance they go over all your bills vrs your income. I get credit for only 225 dollars in utilities and I get credited X amount of money towards rent/housing. And then they take the rest of the money and do a weekly average per number of people in the house to cover the cost of living of each person. I have 7 people in my house and get 241 dollars a month in food stamps. WHY, because the programs piggy back each other. I can't take one and not the other. IF I refuse one then I don't need the other.
So I am that woman in line buying groceries with a food stamp card. I am also the woman that almost 3 years ago prayed it wouldn't be me using it. BUT it is... My DH worked hard from the age of 15 until 3 years ago and he would love to work now but he can't.
OH and I too buy junk food. My children didn't ask for their dad to be sick and Kims children didn't ask for their father to be who he is.. IF they want ice cream I am getting them ice-cream. And if they want to make a root beer float I am buying the root beer to go with it.... And we are known to have a special night and buy a two liter of soda when we eat our two for 4.99 pizza's. Because my DH is sick should they never taste chocolate? And no it isn't a nightly, weekly or even a monthly thing for that matter but if you so happened to be behind me when we decided to live it up for one night you would assume it was a regular thing.
I think you are key holing the issue. Making it black and white when it isn't. I think that in all honesty unless you have lived it you should try to learn about it before you judge it. And to say that you would never, you better think again. So many of you are a pay check, a long illness, or a divorce away from being us. Yet you sit there snubbing the masses because of the actions of a stereo typical few and don't say if you stood behind me and I bought root beer it would be a different story because I know better I see it every day...
You want to complain and you want something fixed. How about you get after the new president who ever that might be to push through the medication coverage for the medicare a little bit faster because trust me I would much rather not to have some woman standing behind me rolling her eyes at me when I swipe my card or flash my handy dandy medical card. And I personally know seniors going with out needed medication because they do not have medication coverage. That could be your parents or even you some day.
Or you could get after the judges and the people that make the laws to make them go after the parents that walk out on their children. Instead of slapping them on the wrist while their children go with out. Because I am sure the moms are with me and would rather not have to swipe that card every month either.
Or how about you do something about the never ending rise of the cost of food and bills. Because at the rate we are going no matter what we do we are going to qualify for assistance from here to the end of our days.
I also want to add....... IF you saw me on the street or you came into my home you would never know that my family is on welfare. My children are clean and well dressed. My house is clean and very homey. I go to great pains to protect them from people that are going to wrongly judge them because of something that is out of their control and give them a normal life. So you can't judge a book by its cover in my case. My children are straight A students (all four of them). My children have goals, hopes and dream just like everyone else on here's children do.
Walk a mile in my shoes and then.......... Tell me what I should and shouldn't buy with my food stamps. You want reform, then do it across the board because you start fixing the fences around other peoples back yards you will see that welfare isn't the only one with a big hole in it. And you might find fixing the other holes will create situations to which people on welfare might be able to get off. It is so easy to sit back and assume and place blame when you aren't truly in it. Read your stats and listen to the reasoning of people that are turning around and sticking their hand in your back pocket and taking your wallet right under your very eyes. But blame me for the rate of your taxes... Lets forget that there are so many other areas of misappropriation in the government. Think everyone would do some good to clean up their own back yards...
Bobbie - amen. and HUGS. It took a alot of courage to reveal so much of your personal life in an effort to help people understand and maybe be a bit more compassionate.
I vote Bobbie for whatever she's running for....
Well said!
AMEN (((Bobbie))) and (((Kim)))
Well said, Kim and Bobbie. Many {{{{{HUGS}}}}} for you both, I happen to *know* what you both have dealt with and I admire the strengh both of you have shown in taking care of your families.
If you need food stamps then I say use them. They are there for people to help with the cost of food. You are not however going to get me to believe that junk food should be bought with the food stamps just like $20.00 steaks shouldn't be bought. That is my opinion & unless we suddenly moved to another country I believe I am allowed to voice it.
{{Kim and Bobbie}} Thank you for sharing such a personal view with us. Many of us are, indeed, a paycheck or so away from serious trouble. The cost of heating oil is skyrocketing here, and even fuel assistance isn't going to make much of a dent this year. None of us should judge another EVEN IF we have been in similar situations - what good does that do? You can hold your heads high knowing you are doing what's best for your CHILDREN, and there is nothing more important than that. {{HUGS}}
I just want to clarify that I wasn't looking down on or judging anyone on food stamps/public assistance. I have been there done that...not as a wife/mother but as a child and I know how hard it can be. I just think that things should be done in Moderation and no way no how should cigarettes be allowed at all. I think the ones that are on public assistance that don't have a job (because they are lazy) and keep poppin out kids because they don't believe in or know what birth control is (my sister)need to be but under supervision with their spending. And at a certain point need to be cut off (my sister) when they don't show any effort to make their life better. My husband works really hard to bring home peanuts for a paycheck, so I know how hard it is to make that dollar stretch, but I do it. It irks me when people like my sister take advantage of the system and my husband (and other hard working people) is out busting his butt to pay for her to take advantage, and it irks me even more that my husbands job is to protect her right to do that. Those people that need the extra help deserve it and should be able to treat their childeren but just like people who aren't on assistance, it should be in moderation. As far as sending apples in to practice, I sent my son the other day with oranges to soccer practice...I don't see anything wrong with sending healthy snacks for the kids, for some kids sadly it might be the only thing healthy they eat all day.
To wrap up my babbling...people who meet certain criteria (my sister) should be monitored in the system. Everyones situation is different and should be adjusted to accordingly. AND THE TAXPAYERS SHOULD NOT PAY FOR TOBACCO PRODUCTS!
You know... I was feeling pretty conservative on how food stamps should be used, but when discussing it with a friend, she made a good point. Some children in therapy use candy as reward, and if the parent was on assistance, but needed to buy candy for therapy, we might judge her/him for using food stamps to do it. However, we don't realize when standing behind them in line that this candy is actually for a great purpose, and the parent is not being frivilous!!! Bobbie and Kim, I applaud you for your honesty. It is a shame that bad people abuse the system, but so many more need it, and work hard to use it right!! Bobbie, you have always been so honest on these boards, and many times have given me clarity on issues I have struggled with. Thank you!
Emily, I don't know where you live but 20 dollar steaks are not on my shopping list. That is a stereo type sent out by the media to make the non welfare receivers look at the welfare system so they over look the other misappropriation going on in our government.
You question what I buy with food stamps but you don't question Bushes weekly vacations on your dime? You don't look at his food budget and say well no you don't need wine with every meal. And the difference is? he is rich and deserves to stay in his customs? Clintons hair cuts cost more than I make in a month, your money went to pay for those hair cuts. But welfare will be the down fall of America. HA!
And like I said, You walk a mile in my shoes and then you can judge me. Think what you want but while you are doing it thank God daily that your DH is healthy and then turn around and pray that he stays that way. Because you can say what you will do but until you are living it you have no clue what you will do. And fate has away of biting people in the rear when they least expect it lets just hope it doesn't make you eat your words.
My parents have never been on assistance nor has DH's but yet here I sit. So what if it so happens to be your child instead of you? And don't tell me it will never happen. Like I said One pay check, one illness, one divorce and one I forgot would be a lay off which has become common ground around here, you are ME!!! Don't count your chickens before they hatch.
And people with opinions would do good to look past the stereo types and to the issues that cause the problems. Jobs sent to other countries to line the pocket of our government officials. No topper on medical Insurance so that people can afford to carry personal insurance, which also lines the pockets of the powers that be. Ever rising medical expenses to the betterment of our governments budget. Low minimum wage with no insurance jobs are many but the good jobs are in Mexico....... Oh and another good one, WE send money a broad to help other countries that are in poverty daily because we want to look like the saving grace of the world but we don't take care of our own. We live in a daily battle ground, but yet we spend millions to go clean up anothers back yard. But every time a debate comes up it seems to be pointed at welfare as the only issue bring ruin to our country. Don't blame the water for the leak in the roof blame the roofer.....
Okay every one posted while I was writing a book. So let me reply.
In everything in life there are bad people. There are bad lawyers, cops, doctors, teachers etc. But we don't say all cops are bad, all lawyers are ambulance chasers and all doctors are murderers. We don't single out everyone in the profession and punish them all. But it seems with welfare everyone wants to only look at the BAD welfare people. The few that abuse are the ones that are brought to the fore front and the rest of us are judged under the same standards.
I agree there needs to be reform, but I think it needs to go across the board. I believe that we as Americans are greedy and self serving. And because of this we have a habit of pointing out everyone else's short comings so that they over look our own.
And Insaneusmcwife, I am sorry your sister is abusing the system. There are many people that look at it as their way of living. But the budget going into fixing the problems is small, so there will always be issues. Just like with everything else today, The welfare system is on a strict budget of which they can't afford to hire enough staff to man the ever growing system. The clerks are under paid and over worked. The educational support for the people on welfare is minimal and the places that are willing to hire someone that has been on assistance are few. So the people that want to work can't find solid employment. And sorry but part time at McDonalds doesn't pay medical and surly doesn't cover the cost of bills these days. The line between being illegible and ineligible is so thin that even a part time job can kick you off of assistance. At one point we were a whole Five dollars away from loosing Robs medical coverage. And the ones that don't want to work need counseling and education inforced by the system to get them out of the system. And instead of sending jobs over seas they need to bring/in courage them to towns in the US that need employers. But until the government is made accountable for their spending so that the funds can be properly used all the complaining in the world will not fix the issues with our system.
I get upset about this topic because I have watched first hand the system be abused. I in no way feel that everyone misuses the system, but I do know that it is done. I am on WIC & I watch the sale ads, use coupons, my discount card, & buy the least expensive I can to save the state money. I have watched people quit their job just before needing to go get recertified so that they can continue to be on food stamps. I have watched a friend go into a store, buy food, & then sell it to her mom. That is the abuse of the system that drives me nuts. There are families out there that NEED food stamps I know that, I just get upset when a good program gets abused. Maybe my saying absolutely no junk food is to harsh, but its hard when you watch certain people spend it all on junk food.
Bobbie while the cowboys out here are proud of their cows, I slightly raised the price. 
I do get upset with other programs & the way our government spends, I think we all do.
I am sorry if it sounds like I am putting all food stamp users into one group, I know not everyone abuses the program. I also know that I would use them if I needed to.
I have been on food stamps and gotten government medical coverage in the past. My kids were never deprived of snacks and such when I used food stamps. I didn't buy the extras for myself that I liked, but my kids did'nt go without. Was I supposed to tell my kids "Sorry honey, you can't have a soda and a candy bar because we are too poor". My kids or anyones kids for that matter should ever feel deprived of an occational snack because mommy and daddy are having financial problems.
I've really thought a lot about this post. It has really pulled at my heart. I do not judge anyone. I'm a very open minded person.
Who should decide what someone should and should'nt eat? Some people would say that lunchmeat is very bad for you, if you are buying meat and frying it in oil that is bad for you, should that stuff be banned from food stamps?
Should kids that get free lunch at school not get the dessert that comes with the meal? Should free clothing shops not carry any brand names? Should only the rich be allowed to have the best in life? Some of the well to do people in this world haven't worked a day in their lives! But people like me and my family work hard everyday but should'nt enjoy the extras in life, because someone out there is saying that apparently we haven't worked hard enough?
Very well said Mara. You hit it right on the head. Who is to decide? And what makes one persons opinion the right one? Unless you have lived it you don't know. Bush has never wanted or needed in his life, should he sit down and tell us what we need? Should a wealthy politician make up the guide lines? Should we have a list of to buy and not to buy items? And who makes up that list? And I am sorry but a two liter of pop is cheaper than a gallon of milk. Pop in our house is a treat/ a special thing not because we are on food stamps but because it is not a healthy for regular consumption. Just because I get food stamps doesn't mean I don't make sure my children eat from the four food groups daily. And I can buy a clearance steak cheaper than I can buy a pound of hamburger so does that mean I shouldn't eat steak because it is a steak and I am on welfare? And what makes your opinion the right one? Because your DH works? That gives you more of a right to dictate where my money is spent? Thing is My DH worked too, I paid my taxes and I struggled to take care of my family no different from now and no different from you. But life isn't black and white. There isn't a right and a wrong. There are shades of gray with this just like with everything else. And until we stop sitting in judgment on every topic while we sit on our hands nothing will change. I know everyone has seen the annoying commercial with the water running in the dorm and all the girls flock around the sink saying "aw look what a waste" etc. But no one reaches out to turn the knob. That is just like this debate. We all sit around with suggestions, comments and judgments but we do nothing to make sure that the problems get fixed. We don't raise each other up we tear each other down. And then complain about the Whys? When we honestly have no clue because we spend every day with our head in the sand saying "aw what a waste".. Many of your husbands are in positions to hire someone on welfare. Ask him, if he has a guy come in that is already employed and someone that comes in on welfare who would he hire first? The man that has the job or the one that needs one? I am sure he will say the one with a job because he would ASSUME the one on welfare is lazy and unreliable. So through his very actions the thing that irks him to no end repeats. And Emily the thing is, if the system was only full of those that abuse it would be abolished but it isn't it is a needed support for our citizens that are unable to support themselves and their families through hard times. This also means you, the services are out there when and if you need them. You push for abolishment it won't be there for you or the ones you love, God willing you never have to lower yourself to beg for help.. It isn't the welfare that is the problem it is the standards that are set and the boundaries that are not kept. Like I said blame the roofer.
In my job with a medical services association, I have seen advances in the welfare system, and I have also seen firsthand the abuses of welfare, i.e., the men who sire children with several women in order to receive a portion of their welfare checks in return for the extra money per month they receive per child. *That's* abuse.
As for blaming the roofer - know what? *We* are the roofers, when all is said and done. We're the ones who either vote or don't vote to put people in office who make these decisions.
We are the roofers that stand back and see the leak saying "hmm, wonder how that happened." And blame the guy that made the shingles or the nails or the weather. We stand there and instead of tarping the hole until we can repair it we let the flooring and the furniture under the leak get ruined because after all it is someone else's fault for the leak and why should we have to do all the work. We sit back later and say so and so should have done better look at all the damage they caused to happen while we sat and watched it go on. We place blame and own none of it for ourselves. Like with kids. We say, look at the clothes these kids wear. But we let our children buy them or we just say they are wrong we don't explain and show through example why they are not proper, which leads our children to still want the crap and for the crap to continue to be made and purchased. It is a because we live in a I say so world. This is wrong because I say so... and we don't educate our people. We say look at the price of cars but we go out and buy them. We say look at the price of a bill but yet we don't cut back on our use or stand up and say no more. The price of milk is through the roof but we buy it because they say it cost this much because we say so... We put people in office and we assume they will look out for our best interest, we are raised not to question our "because I say so" leaders. We resign to complain behind close doors and let the roof keep on leaking and blame the world for our damage. And unfortunatly it is the nails or the shingle guy that shoulders the blame, while the "because I said so" leader sits back and smirks at his sucsess in getting the blame off his own back and we never question because we aren't supposed to. We just chase our tails trying to figure out and complaining about why no one will fix the leak in the first place. We don't strengthen our children so they don't go out and become baby making machines. We don't instill in our daughters the imporatance on educating themselves. And I am not talking a book education I am talking a life education. We allow our daughters to become and remain dependent on a men. And we allow our sons to not stand up for what they know is right for the sake of acceptance of the masses. And we also raise our children seeing that it is okay to sit around and say this should happen that should happen but we don't start in our own back yards. And this isn't just the case with welfare it is the case with life. Everything spirals back to our lack as a nation to stand up for what is right. It is a trickle down effect. Because we see ourselves as an individual and that our opinions won't change anything. We don't question we just complain.
And you know in actuallity we aren't the roofers we are the person that employs the roofer. We are the home owner. We say I need a roofer, we take bids for someone to do the job we listen for months to them slamming the other roofer until we sway under his cost. Then we trust him to do the job not only well but with in cost and when he doesn't we don't question we just write out the check. This is our country, the American citizens but unless pushed to a wall our voices aren't heard because we are muttled by or closed doors. We say this is right or that is wrong but we don't stand behind it. We watch for what everyone else will say and we jump on that band wagon. We handle shades of gray as black and white. Because it is out of our hands as we see it we look to blame anything we can so lets blame the poor. They have no grounds to stand on. They are the runt in our nation. Our world is like an over grown high school. You have the poor kids, the middle class and the rich. Everyone plays the same roles as adults as they did as kids. We try with all of our might to front that we are cool and in. We put up false faces and we don't question out of rejection. We have to accept the rules or get eaten up. And our teachers go out of their way to build up the jocks of the world and keep the poor child down. It is this way in every aspect of your life. Your families, your jobs, your DH's job, our government.
This is absolutely ridiculous. I am appalled and offended at the way that some of the posters above have been able to voice their side (quite harshly) on the subject, but others of us can't say a word.
Just like any other debate, there are two sides. It seems like only one side here is allowed.
I can make a whole list of debates here on momsview that I would like to have removed because *I* feel attacked by them. But, I don't have that option.
Good luck to everyone on or off foodstamps. But I will still look at someone twice if I see them buying a cart full of soda and a carton of cigarettes on foodstamps. I don't go for that.
And yes, we have told our kids...sorry, no treats today, it's not in the budget.
Couldn't have said it better Robin.
Robin, you are dead wrong that only one side is allowed, and *I* am offended by that remark.
You and I both know why the initial thread was removed. There were *harsh* comments in that one too, and they were made directly to other members.
I am not going to debate this with either of you. You are entitled to your opinions, and are welcome to voice them within the guidelines of this board.
I'm really sorry if the two of you are angry, but if you have further issues with the way this board is run, please take it up with admininstration, OFF of the board.
My family was on food stamps when I was very young and I remember how strict it *was*. I dont know why things have changed. You couldnt even buy toiletries (sp?), pet food, tobacco; and there was no such thing as a "cash" limit. Heck, I even remember when WIC gave us the food right in the office instead of going to the store to get it. I do believe that the system is *extremely* abused but its also very hard to pinpoint those abusers from those who really need it. To do that the state would have to hire more workers to investigate thus putting more money into it so in the end they are really coming out even.
I just believe that what goes around comes around and those that abuse the system will eventually get their share. My Mom, for example, was getting welfare while her hubby (my stepdad) and her were going through a divorce but us kids ended up with my stepdad and she was still getting money. They caught up with her in the long run and garnished her wages until over 8K was paid back to them.
Its sad that people abuse the system because it tends to give every person on food stamps a bad rep by nature but it would be even worse to take away the food stamp service altogether and have hungry people all over America with nowhere to turn.
I also believe what comes around goes around.
I also have no problem with food stamps being used for things like...cleaning supplies, diapers, etc.
I have a serious problem with them being used for things like...soda, doughnuts, chips etc. Food with no nutrional value, I do not buy these things for my own children so I don't think I should have to buy them for anyone else. I think we should have vouchers saying you get so much fresh produce, dairy, meat, 100 % juices, etc. That way if you want to give your children cookies or cake you can make it yourself.
I also think every person who gets food stamps or welfare should have a workable plan to eventually get off of them - for example -when my children are school age, I will work full time, even if it is a job you hate for whatever reason. I also don't think this has to be mandated by the government, it should be common sense, things are not just going to change unless you make the change yourself, by education or working a job you hate. A lot of us work at jobs we hate or work at jobs where our supervisor makes our life horrible but we do it because we need the money. You cannot convince me that I need to buy your children crap food that I do not buy my children just because of either the life choices you have made or what life has dealt you. I have no problem paying for nutritious foods. Heck, I have no problem buying ice cream, because at least they are getting calcium through it.
What did people do before food stamps and welfare? Did they go to their family, their churches, their community? and then as a last resort look to the government?
I am not attacking bobbie or kim or anyone else, I have been here a long time and I know their situations by what they have posted.
Did it occur to you that many people on food stamps and other assistance ARE working and trying their hardest to get out of their current situations?
I personally know more than one person who is working full time, doing their very best to support their family, but cannot possibly do it alone without food stamps and whatever other assistance they can get.
Not everyone who is getting this type of aid is a freeloader. Granted, probably a great number of them are. But there are many families who, due to circumstances, cannot survive without it.
And they are caught in a Catch-22 situation - they have to work full time just to barely make ends meet, even WITH assistance. They work hard at just the types of jobs you mentioned above - jobs that pay minimum wage, jobs they hate, jobs where their supervisors are jerks and make them miserable. But they do it, because they have to, because they are honestly trying to improve their situations. They want an education so they can get better, higher paying jobs so they can get OFF assistance. Only they can't afford school. Some of them can get grants, but then they can't stop working to go to school, and if they try to go to night school, they have child care issues to contend with. Babysitters don't work for free and not everyone has a family nearby as a support system. If they have friends, their friends may be struggling and have their hands full with their OWN families, and can't commit to babysitting someone's kids several nights a week for a year or two or more.
I would have a problem too with people using food stamps to buy *junk food* IF that's ALL they bought with it. Who wouldn't??
And many times, especially when I was single-parenting, I also had to tell my kids *sorry, no treats, not in the budget*.
But can you honestly imagine how depressing and disheartening it is for a family when you can NEVER afford a treat now and then??? That's a genuine situation for many.
So I'm perfectly willing to agree to disagree on that issue. If *my* money is buying those groceries, I'm totally willing for a child to get a treat once a month with it, or have a birthday cake or soda for their birthday celebration. Those are small things that brighten a dark day for kids whose daily life consists of doing without - and I'm not talking about doing without frivolous things, I'm talking about doing without new clothes and shoes and always wearing hand-me-downs or thrift shop clothing, and never having dessert at home or in their lunch box, assuming Mom can afford the stuff to make their school lunches - many are on free lunch programs due to these very situations, and never going to movies, or bowling, or birthday parties of friends because Mom can't afford to buy a gift, and not being able to afford the recreation department fee to play team sports. How heartbreaking is it to tell a child, sorry, no birthday celebration for you this year. True, you can buy the stuff to make the cake from scratch, but by the time you buy the eggs, flour, oil, chocolate or vanilla flavoring, stuff to make icing, etc., it's often cheaper to get a small birthday cake at the local grocery store. I won't begrudge a child that.
And it's often cheaper to buy pre-packaged mac and cheese, etc., or instant potatoes than make from scratch. If you can get a box of instant mashed potatoes, and fresh potatoes cost $.99 a lb., and you are feeding a family of 5 or 6, the box of instant is cheaper. Produce, meat and dairy product prices are going through the roof. So maybe pre-packaged, boxed items aren't the healthiest, but maybe they are the cheapest.
So we have different views on that, plain and simple. And that's OK, because the world would certainly be a boring place if everyone agreed on everything all of the time.
I agree with Colette. I had posted just before the old thread was removed saying that I felt that it was unfair that some people had to work hard to make ends meet and never qualify for assistance. They have to tell their kids that they can't get treats. Yet they pay taxes to fund programs so that other kids can have treats. How is that fair?
People who cannot afford basic human needs should receive assistance. This assistance should go towards needs (good food, warm clothes, good shelter, bus fare to a job etc...). It should not go towards extras that people want or feel that they "deserve." If they want the extras they should find a way to earn them.
"Yet they pay taxes to fund programs so that other kids can have treats. How is that fair?" Kelly, the majority of the people that complain about their taxes actually don't pay taxes in the end. They file at the end of the year, get back most if not all they paid in and then they turn around and file for the Child credits (which is not money you earned by the way). But because they see the money coming off the check ever week they think they are supporting the people on welfare while they do with out. If I was able to file the child credit I would get back more in the end of the year than what I get paid in food stamps for the year. But that would be okay because I worked for that hand out? Not all your money paid to taxes goes to welfare, actually a very minor percentage of what you pay in taxes goes to welfare and the other welfare related systems. But we aren't hearing about where the rest of the money goes. We don't make them take a voucher to the store to buy a bag of potatoes and a block of 100% cheese.
Daily we are loosing jobs, daily people are applying for unemployment (which is a form of welfare you also pay for) and getting food stamps and medicaid because when you apply for unemployment they refer you to welfare to help take up the slack of your loss of income if your unemployment pay is low. There is no jobs out there that will meet your bills. Can't live in a big house with a car note and work at McDonalds so you keep applying around and praying something will come through. In 6 months your unemployment runs out. And now no one is hiring. Hmm welcome to my world.. Or like in the case of many. You have a child, you are in love he is the best daddy ever and then you see the real him. He takes off to live his life and you have a job but you can't pay the bills. Do they track DH down and make him pay? No they put you on welfare to off set the money he should be getting from him. And then they pretend they will make him pay adentually. How many of you on this list are stay at home moms? What will you do, where will you turn in the instance your DH decides he is done? Do you think working at McDonalds will pay your bills? Who will pay your day care? A friend of mine pays 140 a week for her 2 year old in diapers to be in day care. LOL Which is why most of you decided to stay home and raise your own children. One woman, one minimum wage job and an 140 dollar a week day care expense, I don't think so. Off to welfare you go.
Or how many of us here have older husbands? I am talking age of heart attack old. So he has the heart attack it causes damage that will make it so he can't ever work again. His disability pay through work is only good for two years if the disability was not caused on the job. So for two years you work and live off the disability insurance what happens when that insurance runs out? Do you leave him and find someone that isn't sick so that you can support yourself or do you get the help you need? My DH's disability through work ran out and his health insurance stopped. Medicare doesn't kick in for a two years after you receive your first SSD check. Even after being approved your SSD payments don't start until you have been off work for six months. Six months with no income if you don't have disability coverage through work. And 2 years and 6 months with out insurance of any sort. In our case DH went six months with out any out side coverage. Okay so lets say your DH doesn't have disability coverage through work. But he will never be able to work again. Do you think you could survive for 6 months with NO income? How would you pay his medical bills or for his medication? He finally starts getting his check but now you have to wait another two years to get medical coverage. Oh and lets not forget... Medicare only covers the disabled person, so you and your children are now uninsured too. When you go to SSD or SSI they know your house hold income and guess what you don't have to go to the actual welfare office they do an auto file for you because by the laws of our government all families are to live by a set minimum income. So they work together to make sure you are at that minimum level.
What happened before welfare? You ever seen footage of Africa or China or Japan or Mexico? That is what happened before welfare. You ever seen a feed the children commercial? That is what happened before welfare. You hear the stories of moms adopting from other countries because their orphanages are over flowing with children because of no welfare... No welfare leaves parents with no choice but to turn their children over to the state. At which time you not only pay a bit to feed them you pay for their full support. No welfare will not stop the baby's from coming it will only make them more of your responsiblity to care for. Which is why the system was created, because it is cheaper to give a little financial support so the mother/father can raise their own child then it is to feed, house, clothe and hire a staff to care for children with no parents. Why do you think they closed the orphanages and where do you think all those children that lived in them came from?
Bobbie, you pay taxes right? I'm on WIC, and *I* pay taxes. Nate is our primary breadwinner, and pays a whole lot in taxes because he is single in the eyes of the government. Our money goes to the programs we use. Oh, and in TX you will be turned away from assistance if you have a vehicle. A friend of mine was told they should sell their *only* car for food money, even though the father needed it for work. And to my knowledge we don't have a cash portion on cards here. I think too many people are assuming hard working parents on Food Stamps should be categorized with the people that abuse the system. That said, keep your gloves up ladies!!! I can't believe how worked up everyone has been on this topic. We teach our kids it is ok to disagree politely, and to respect authority. We seem to not be exhibiting those values on this!!!
Somehow we have gone from buying tobacco and the mythical $20 steak with food stamps to the notion that people on food stamps should not buy Mac&Cheese or instant potatos or cake mixes. As for finding a way to "earn" the "extras", if they could find a way to earn them most would be doing that. I find this an incredibly punitive attitude, as if being poor - or being the child of someone who is poor - is a crime or a sin. Whatever happened to plain Christian kindness?
Yes, there are individuals who abuse the welfare, food stamp, WIC, Medicaid or other systems. But, every study I have read (done by government agencies as well as private entities) reports that the abusers (in both numbers and dollars) are primarily the providers - the retail stores and, in the case of Medicaid, the medical providers.
As for what people did before welfare, well, there were poor houses - where husbands and wives had to live in separate dormitories or buildings if they comitted the sin of becoming poor because they were old and had no work and no children to care for them, and where children were warehoused, not educated, and thrown out into the world at the earliest legal age. And when the welfare system first came into being, there were unannounced sudden visits in the middle of the night to make certain that a woman on welfare didn't have a man in her house - heaven help her if the investigator found a piece of man's clothing in the house, she and her children would be off the rolls immediately. One of the reasons we have a national welfare system is because there was such disparity of treatment when taking care of the poor was considered a local matter, and when many communities "took care" of their poor by simply shipping them over a town/county/state border to become some other community's problem.
Go to their communities? Many do, and I read almost monthly about food cupboards running out of food and the increasing numbers of people who are coming to food cupboards for help because they are working poor (that is, they have jobs) but don't earn enough to carry them through the month. My church is part of a network of churches that work with homeless women with children. These are women who, because they've left an abusive husband/father or lost the man of the family (through death or desertion) have no income and no place to live. The program offers an alternative to homeless shelters (which are often nightmares and dangerous, especially for children) and works with these women to help them to learn job skills, find jobs, learn how to budget, and eventually get jobs and private housing. We manage to work with 6 to 10 families at a time, and have a waiting list of at least 200 families of women with dependent children.
Being poor is neither a sin nor a crime, and imo does not call for punishment on top of the horror of being in a situation where you have to apply for welfare and/or food stamps. Most of us are just a few paychecks away from welfare. Stop and think - if your dh or you suddenly lost a job, what would happen to you in a few months? Would you be able to make your mortgage payments, pay for heat, electricity, gas for the car you use to look for work and/or take the children to school, sneakers, school supplies, health care, etc., until a new job was found - and is there a pool of jobs in your area that pay what your (or your spouse's) present job pays. What would you do? Do you have family, friends and community that would help you out until you were able to get back into the financial position you were thrown out of? Try putting yourself in the other person's shoes for a minute and think about what would happen to you. Don't think "it can't happen to me". It can. In the small microcosm of this board we have several people who have found themselves in the unhappy position of having to apply for one kind of assistance or another, for reasons they can't control.
I, like Bobbie and others, have BTDT - that is, I've had to apply for welfare and food stamps. Fortunately for my family, it was temporary, lasting a bit less than two years. I can tell you that it was one of the most humiliating and frustrating periods of my life. I'm a fairly intelligent person, with skills, family, network of friends, church, and the knowledge and ability to figure out how things are supposed to work as well as the stubbornness to try to make them "work". But the welfare system baffled me, and continues to baffle me - and my period on welfare was when it was a "kinder", less punitive system. One of the problems I experienced was that we had more food stamps than we needed, but not enough cash welfare to be able to buy more than 100 gallons of fuel oil at a time (and our mortgage payment was significantly less than the cost of rent for the average low-income area apartment). Having a pair of shoes get damaged beyond wearing was a major emergency. There was no money for school trips to the museum or other places schools take classes. When all three sons outgrew their winter jackets and I couldn't find really warm jackets at the local Goodwill, we had to postpone paying the electric and gas bills and hope they would give us a chance to to catch up rather than shut us off. Try it sometime.
We now have this system where a family can be on welfare for no more than 5 years and the adult(s) have to work. In most states, if a single female parent is trying to go to school to learn the skills that will enable her to get and keep a decently paying job, she is out of luck. She has to work at McDonalds or whatever minimum wge paying job there may be, which will keep her and her children in poverty endlessly. And if there is no childcare available, she still has to work. I think this is (a) incredibly short-sighted and (b) just plain stupid.
Try putting yourself in the other person's shoes for a few minutes - I mean really putting yourself in the other person's shoes, thinking about what it would be like to live month after month at the welfare/food stamp level. Every couple of years one of the reporters for the Philadelphia Inquirer tries this out - spends a month living at the welfare level, including trying to find housing, a job (at an "unskilled" level, to keep the experience "authentic"), spending only what the welfare/foodstamp system allows. They wind up, every time, reporting their frustration and inability to manage - and these are people who have life management skills.
Instead of blaming the small number of people who "abuse" the system, be grateful that we live in a nation where people are not expected to simply crawl into a corner and die when they become poor - which is what happens in many countries.
Forget food stamps......I'm just wondering how often some of the moms here buy "junk food"? What is considered "junk food"? I'll be honest....I apparently buy junk food more than anyone else posting here. Because a Pepsi and a box of cookies is just about a once a week thing in my house. Granted there are 5 of us and it goes very quickly, but still it's there. But I also try to be sure that my children eat wholesome nutritious meals, and have healthy snacks. (apples, bananas, grapes) And most of the time they choose the healthy snacks over the junk food (go figure). To me junk food isn't ice cream, or candy bars, or pepsi. Yes it's all junk, but used in moderation it's also a great treat!
Ginny, great post. Welfare has never seemed to me to be a serious attempt to address real problems. It's there to scare people away from it, as if they had a choice to stay away. Like you said, it's punitive.
If a mom chooses to buy cigarettes with food stamps, maybe that's her best choice at that moment. So it's cheating. It's also a way to deal with tremendous stress in a situation where she may feel depressed and isolated. Another way to deal with the stress might be to break down or hit her kids...tobacco is a much better choice. And if it's come to the point where she feels she has to cheat to get through a day, then the system should be looked at, not her. I wish we'd be more concerned with what we could do that would really help instead of how we could control these people more. We're obsessed with the welfare cheat 'boogeymen' instead of the reality.
This post just reminds me of the good old saying "Life isn't fair."
I pay my taxes, I used WIC when I needed it. I don't now. I'm going to pay taxes regardless. If people on food stamps want to buy junk food, fine. But they better make sure they have dental coverage when those cavities come through, LOL!
This is just the vicious cycle of life. It just isn't fair and won't ever be fair in everbodys eyes at the same time.
I can't talk much about junk food because my DDs idea of junk food is fruit bowls with syrup, Wheatables, Ritz Crackers, Uncrustables PB $ J sandwiches, and all natural fruit snacks. Shes not at an age old enough to where i'm going to and her a coke or Oreo cookies. Everyone family has their own way they feed their children and i'm not going to judge it. If they feed them junk food, atleast they're not starving. And whats so bad about mac & cheese. I'd consider that more healthy than a junk food. And mashed potatoes, we all eat those.
You cant change a persons eating habits just because they are getting assistance. You can *recommend* healthier foods but it doesn't mean they will buy it. Regardless of whether its coke or milk, its still coming from the government and out of your taxes so what *really* is the big deal?
This is unbelievable.
I WORK A FULL TIME JOB. If you really knew my circumstances you would know that. I got a raise recently..KNOW WHAT HAPPENED? THE AMOUNT THAT WAS TAKEN AWAY FROM ME IN MY ASSISTANCE (SEVERAL THINGS HERE) WAS MORE MONEY IN A YEAR THAN I GOT IN THE RAISE!!!!! I AM OPERATING AT A LOSS. HOW DO YOU EXPECT ME TO GET OUT OF THE SYSTEM?????
LET ME GUESS, I SHUOLD GOT TO SCHOOL OR GET A SECOND JOB, RIGHT??? WHO IS GOING TO PAY FOR THE DAYCARE THAT I CANNOT AFFORD? I DON'T GET FREE SCHOOL OR FREE DAYCARE BECAUSE I HAVE A "JOB". I WAS SUPPOSED TO GO BACK TO COLLEGE AFTER MY YOUNGEST WAS IN SCHOOL....MY HUSBAND PROMISED THIS BECAUSE I QUIT COLLEGE TO RAISE MY STEPCHILDREN/CHILDERN. HE LEFT AFTER 13 YEARS AND TOLD ME HE DIDN'T OWE ME A DARN THING.
I HAVE TO RAISE THREE CHILDREN ON WHAT IS POVERTY LEVEL FOR ONE PERSON. I THINK I DO IT VERY WELL. NO ONE KNOWS. THINK YOU COULD DO IT?????
DO YOU REALLY THINK I "WANT" TO BE IN THE SYSTEM????? DO YOU REALLY THINK I ENJOY RAISING THREE CHILDREN WITHOUT THE HELP OF TWO OTHER BIRTHPARENTS????? YOU ARE QUITE MISTAKEN. I HAVE GREATER DREAMS FOR MY CHILDREN!
I WORK HARD, I ALSO PAY TAXES.
It seems to me that there is some ignorance and immaturity at work here. Guess what? I'm not having 15 kids, I am white and I don't live in a ghetto. Don't have a nice new car either! Hmmmm, anything else I can add here? My parents weren't on welfare either.
You can't buy cleaning supplies, cigarettes or pre-made foods with "FOOD STAMPS". As for the food I buy, I don't give a DARN what anyone thinks of me anymore! All I care about is taking care of my children!
And once again, THE MONEY PEOPLE GET ON THOSE CARDS ISN'T ALWAYS FROM WELFARE. Should a veteran NOT be allowed to buy cigarettes on his card (its a national card by the way) because people might think it is from "assistance"?????
I am not a "stupid" person. I am educated. I have had good jobs before. A LONG time ago before I stayed home to raise children. I live in a place where there ARE NO JOBS. Men can't even earn a decent wage here.
You are TOTALLY entitled to your opinion if you disagree on this subject. I don't have a problem with that at all. Its not up to me to change your mind. But you are looking at this with blinders. I don't even know who said it, but someone said something about getting a good job or school, that tells me right there you don't know what is going on! Just because someone works 40 hours a week doesn't make them ineligible!!!
I'll continue to buy what I buy. Know what? A worker once asked me how much extra a month I spend on food. I said "what do you mean?" She said most people spend more money than given. I shop so well and cook well and we don't need extra! She told me I should teach some people how to shop and cook! If I know how to save money, buy on sale, use coupons and STILL give my kids a treat, I am going to do it! I'm glad I can fit it all in! Don't care who has a problem with it! Don't care what you feed YOUR kids.
{{{{{Kim}}}}}} Kim, those of us who've been around a while know what you have gone through. For my (tax) money, you go right ahead and get your kids - and yourself - a treat. You have more than earned it.
Lots of hugs, Kim. I have posted before about the fact that our family was on food stamps and for a few months, cash aid. As Ginny posted, it was one of the most humiliating times of my life. At the time, my ds had just been diagnosed with autism and we had a therapist in our home for 40 hours each week, my dh was let go and we had wiped out our saving while trying to get a diagnosis for my ds. We had always been the type to have 3 months of living expenses in savings until my son's condition came to our attention. My dh was looking for a job every day, I had to be home while the therapy was going on and welfare required my dh to be doing 40 hours of volunteer time because he wasn't working. So he was doing park maintanence from 7-3:30, showering and applying for jobs until 6 or 7 and the welfare office wanted me to be working at night. Apparently, I didn't need to sleep or spend any time with my older daughter who was in school. We had to choose to spend $ on clothes (from KMart and Walmart, very few thrift stores in this area) and shoes (one pair per kid) and hope that the electricity wouldn't be turned off. My kids only went to family birthday parties where we signed the card on the gift my mother bought. My dks turned down about 20 invitations because we didn't have the money for presents or clothes that would look appropriate. WE went on our first family vacation in 4 years (since my dh lost his job) last spring and half of it was a gift from my extended family.
My dh finally found a job about a year later but I had to start working during the day and he worked nights so we didn't have to pay childcare costs and so that there would be someone home for the time of therapy. He has been with this company for a year and a half and is finally making an amount that makes it possible for me to be home again. We were on food stamps for about a year and a half and 6 months of that were while my dh and I were working. I went from having a grocery budget of $200 when my dh was working to a government budget of over $350 each month. What was I supposed to do with the extra money? If my kids could have nothing else, they could have friends stay the night and we could make cookies, or pop popcorn and watch movies rented from the library. We felt that if we had to say no to EVERY extra, we could at least let them feel "normal" when they needed cupcakes for their school birthday parties (the only party they would have)!
And Crystal was nice enough to protect my privacy but I am the friend she talked about that needed candy as rewards for her ds's therapy. It is standard practice for them to reward students for good behavior and proper learning with edible reinforcers. At least once a month I had to buy bags of candy, chips, cookies, and soda to use a reward. Since I didn't want to be seen as the woman that started this whole debate, I would pay $25-40 each month for this. I don't know of too many children that can be bribed out of a tantrum with an apple or a carrot stick!
For every abuser of the system, there are 10 people that have a story like Ginny's, Bobbie's, Mara's, Kim's or mine. If you don't know what each person's story is, you can't drop a blanket statement about all welfare cases.
We have been on public assistance many diffrent times. As someone mentioned, some people are just one paycheck, or one illness away from needing help. We have had bad luck. When ds was born we had to take him to Denver for kidney surgery. My dh has had 3 jobs that just left the state so he was laid off. When ever we have been on food stamps I didn't buy anything diffrent than what I would normally buy. I have got a birthday cake for ds 1st birthday. I got him an easter basket for easter. (in wyoming we can only buy things that have something edible in it, no cleanig supplies or ciggs.) I do feel bad when we have to be on them. The las time we were on food stamps I had a checker at Walmart look at me when I told her my food ws on food stamps, and say umm humm, nice ring you have on your finger! Really snooty! She was looking at my wedding ring, that isn't huge. I went right from her check out to the customer service desk and told them what she had said with tears running down my face. I feel bad enough being on them I don't need anyone assumeing that they know my situation. The longest amount of time we were on them was 3 months, we were also liveing in a transitional houseing place (homeless shelter) because my hubby was injured and couldn't work and our circumstances went from bad to worse. We are not in the best of circumstances now but dh makes $26 too much gross to qualify for anything. I don't know how it is in other states but Wyoming is pretty strickt on who they let get on assistance. Just last week I had to go to a food bank for help. But if you were to see me I dress very nice and someone would assume that we are a middle class family when we are way below that. So I try not to assume what somebodys circumstances are. But I do know that this is a heated subject in my family (parents) and I do get tired of defending myself and my need for help.
This is an interesting post, with interesting opinions. I have just a couple of comments. First my gut feel is if you are on assistance, you should cut out luxury items, those items to me include sodas, alcohol, tobacco and prepackaged treats. But I also know we live in a land of convience, for example we do snack at my sons school, we have to bring it in packaged in bags of 20. Well if you have coupons and shop well, it can be just as cheap to buy the prepackaged stuff. Also I know that you cannot make laws to govern everything, you have to just know that some people will cheat (in all things) but most people are honest and fair. We may be different, but different doesn't mean wrong. For example, I don't use those frozen chicken breast, they are the best price and you can get them at a heck of a deal, but I really prefer the no hormone chickens. So if money is tight we eat less instead of eating cheap meat. It is my preference. So yes there is part of me that would like some strict laws, I just don't think they enforceable. I would rather have less strict, but stronger enforced laws.
Second, several people who mentioned they get assistance also made the comment they pay taxes, well I disagree with that. Yes you pay taxes out of each check. But once a year when you file and you take all your deductions, look at that number you really pay taxes on. Most people on assistance also get earned income credit, this means you get ALL that money back. We make a fair chare of money and I am suprised how little of that money we are taxed on because of our deductions, so I just can't believe that you really are paying much in taxes. Look at your bottom line (line 60 on your tax return). This number is about 10% of our total income, we don't shelter money, we don't give a large amount to charities and we have 3 kids. Anyway, so I don't feel like we pay much in taxes. Now we do all pay the same sales taxes, but if you make less, you spend less and your net taxes are also less there too.
Ah but again I beg to differ. As I said before, Nate is our primary breadwinner, and he pays a heck of a lot in taxes. He doesn't get all or even most of his money back. And he feeds and clothes 2 children who are not "his" in the eyes of the IRS. You want to talk about system abuse? My ex-husband is living off YOUR tax dollars in FAMILY housing on post, even though our divorce is final and I have custody. He is renting rooms to other soldiers while YOU pay his rent and utilities, and the government doesn't care. Are you calling Ft. Hood housing complaining about him? I know parents who are not even trying to look for a job, but claiming assistance, *they* are the problem!! IMO, Kim, and all the other hard working parents can buy a freaking candy bar on our tax money to reward their children occasionally, there are many more serious abuses going on. My parents pay a HIGH tax bracket, and so do many of my family members. I'm sorry *I* am not wealthy, and in actuality am living at the poverty level. I try hard to be self-sufficient, and I know so many more moms are. I've gotta stop checking this debate now... I'm starting to lose my patience. I really envy everyone in a position to not need help, and I feel for everyone who does.
My point, Kaye, Is that I AM WORKING and I AM PAYING TAXES. It doesn't matter HOW MUCH. Could I then say to the others that are whining about paying my food bill that they aren't paying much either? I am not sitting home on my rear end doing NOTHING. I won't even get into the tax thing except to say that NO I don't always get all that money back. And so what if I do get some money back? Does it compare to the way my kids have to live? In NO way! It pays up debt or fixes the van I use, clothes my kids and next year it will probably pay for my son's braces. That money is well spent before I get it. And not on fun stuff either!
I am losing my patience too. Why is it touchy? I guess because people do not like being called cheaters. It offends my integrity. I also do not like being pigeonholed into a stereotype. I also do not like others telling me what they do not want to pay for my family to eat. I'm sorry, but I don't think I abuse the system at all. Original poster, whoever you were, what were you hopnig to gain by your post? Was it accomplished? Didn't you think that some people here would be in that situation? Don't you have tolerance enough to see that you can't possibly know the meaning of every situation? Would YOU want to be judged? Maybe I should go hide in my house because I have this stigma to deal with and I am not a real enough person to even decide what my kids should eat. Maybe I don't feel bad anough already I need someone to remind me of how grateful I should be because they foot my bill. WAY up there somewhere someone posted about how little actaully goes to food stamps. I'd LOVE if someone could pull up THOSE statistics! How much DOES go to ridiculous government spending? You know, like the wrenches that cost $1,000.00 a piece simply because they are used for the government? Maybe the problem should get fixed before people like my kids and I even have to go to the system for help! Maybe anger would be better spent there!
Thank you everyone who exposed themself to post on this topic. I have read every post and appreciate your input. I guess I added mine because I thought maybe it would give someone who doesn't understand more insight. Maybe some compassion. I would love to say to those that oppose that you may be in my shoes someday, but I REALLY wouldn't wish this on anyone. I also envy anyone that has never had to experience what we have.
{{KIM}}
A quote from your own profile "Though one may conquer a thousand times a thousand men in battle, yet he indeed is the noblest victor who conquers himself." Dhammapada 103
Anyone who doesn't understand what you have had to go through should look very carefully at their own lives. No one is exempt from falling on hard times. NO ONE. I don't care how much they have saved up or how much education they have - one catastrophic illness, one stroke - who knows?
It makes some people feel better about themselves to think that they are somehow *better* than others. How sad for them that they need to tear someone else down to build their own self-esteem! I'm sure there are *better* people than them who could surely find something about *their* lives that could be improved upon in some way. I wonder how they'd accept the criticism...
You are doing a great job raising your family, and you have every reason to be proud. You are doing the most important job in the world, and working at a job, too. Who cares what ANYONE else thinks? Life is too short
{{HUGS}}
Kaye, that was exactly my point. Everyone on here is saying MY taxes. But the thing is the majority of people with school aged children do not pay taxes. They pay weekly, then they turn around at the end of the year and get back most if not all of what they paid in and on top of that they get Earned income credit or that new child tax credit depending on their gross income. This Earned income credit or the new Child tax credit is not money you actually earned it is a bonus to parents with children. The thing is, Most of you get back more at the end of the year in those credits than I get for a full year in food stamps. So what makes you accepting that check any different than me?
And Crys, no we don't pay taxes on Robs SSD. While I was working I paid taxes. But because Rob takes full time supervision they decided instead of having him in out patient care (adult baby sitter) it would be cheaper to give me 105 a month (spouse care giver pay) then it would be to pay for 40 hour a week care through the hospital out patient care. Besides his condition would mean a lot of loss work and probably ending up fired. There are many days it takes everything I can to keep him stable. But all you moms with children with emotional issues know exactly from where I speak. But if I was able to file at the end of the year I would get back more in earned income credit than I do in food stamps. So that said, am I really working the system or getting what I would get at the end of the year anyway?
And in Kims case. IF the government would enforce the child support her ex and the mother of her children should be paying her she wouldn't be on assistance. But because just like with everything else they can't MAKE them pay she has no choice. And Kim, You have all the support and respect. You are one hell of a woman and I am glad you are getting the help because you deserve every penny of help you can get. Love ya Kim... Big hugs....
And thanks to all of you that stood up with me and for me on this. I know it is hard admitting you have BTDT in this case. And you don't know what it means to me that you had the courage to come out and risk being looked down on... If one mind is touched by what has been said it is all worth it....
Bobbie... I hadn't realized you were not working an outside job, and were taking care of Rob full time. I know that must be very difficult at times, kudos to you for your strength and determination!!
Crys, I was at one point working, I am a medical assistant. My last job was at a PED's office. But Rob wasn't taking proper care of himself and was at a point where I was running out of options and was thinking of having him put back in the hospital. It was suggested adult care (which there would have been no way I could have gotten him to agree to) or me having to quit my job. Like I said, it is more cost effective for me to care for him and receive 105 a month to do so than it would have been to get him into a adult care center. SSD, Welfare and his doctors all supported my taking care of him. Because I am in general the only one that he will work with and not against. He has been doing really good lately but that can be very short lived as anyone that deals with mental illness knows. They grow tolerances to medication, their illness gets the better of them and they start fighting taking the very thing that keeps their lives livable. But I have goals and this may sound odd but I am planning on going to college and he will be going with me. I found out that our local branch of Ohio State will let him go to class with me. He won't actually be taking the classes but he will be able to be with me. I know it sounds odd but this is what I have to do. And I don't need kudos because I see the way I help him every day and him still being here is all the kudos I need.
Bobbie I missed your post on taxes, that is exactly what I was trying to say. Our gov needs lost of work, we have lots of issues where we are misappropriating funds! As far as welfare reform, my position remains unchanged. Yes I do think there needs to be some laws about what is okay and not okay (like tobacco and alcohol) although I can argue a case for either one really..LOL. But I think that we cannot micromanage everything and you just cannot effectively govern the ins and outs of what people do and how they do it. Do I judge others for what they buy, hmmm to be honest I don't know that I have seen anyone use food stamps, I just don't pay that much attention. I do sometimes laugh when I see certain things in someones check out. For example, I often shop at about midnight. There is rarely anyone there, but occasionally you see the guy with the box of condoms and a case of beer..lol, or the mom with diapers and pedialyte, a candy bar and a coke, you know she is in for a long night! Anyway, so what I am saying is that I just don't think we can have the government step in and fix all things, if so doesn't that make us communist? Part of what is great about America is our freedom, and that freedom may just well be that we can feed our kids crap if we want, no matter what our situation is. Yes there are bad people out there, yes there are cheaters, oh well. I think you have to hope that most people are good and want to do the right thing and even when it appears if they aren't, maybe somehow they are and we just don't get it.
btw crystal...big yuck on your ex, he shoudl no better, everyone renting from him should know better!
And bobbie, 105 a week? I can't imagine getting by on that! Or is that just a grocery allotment? I vote for a raise for you!
And third, so is there a website that has rules on what it takes to qualify for help? I have a dear friend who is struggling to make ends meet and I never even thought of looking into welfare for her. She is lucky to get through each day, somedays, much less spend time hunting down info only to find out she doesn't qualify. So i would love a website to do some research for her!
Food stamps
Food stamps link
ACtually I just put in a 79 year old relative of ours who get $600 in social security. (Her rent is abotu $700 with utilities.) (She gets help from her family to survive obviously)
No other income.
I thought she might have $4,000 in savings - if you have that much in savings you get no food stamps!
Anyway she obviously qualifies so I have to call her and tell her and give her the phone number. Probably order the forms for her.
Kaye, No that is how much SSD pays me to be DH's aid. So in other words I am paid a little over 24 dollars a week or 105 a month to do a job that they would have to pay someone else a minimum of lets say 8 dollars an hour to do. Which would be a little over 1,300 dollars, just to have someone else in to care for him for 8 hours a day, 5 days a week for a month. And out of home adult day care would run into more money. So it is more cost effective for them to pay me.
And Feona, Many of our elderly don't know that there is help out there for them too. And the system is so that it takes a lot of patients and sometimes a little fight to get the help that you need. I wish her all the best.
Wow! There sure were a lot of opinions on this one, so I'll add mine. If you are on assistance, then use your money the way you need to, or would like to. Some people are responsible and use it wisely. Others are not. I don't think anyone should tell you what to buy, you should be smart enough to decide for yourself. If you can feed your family good food and still buy snacks and treats and soda and sundries then more power to you!
I have enough trouble going into the supermarket and spending less than $150 a week for a family of two adults, a toddler and an infant.
This post has made me more humble. And certainly more willing to try and spend wisely!
Ame
Earlier last month our family was very close to needing assistance. I would have never thought it would have happened to us, but it did. We were faced with so many hardships at once. There were several times we just didn't know how we would make it through. We had just moved and my dh had hit a wall in his work. The hoops he needed to jump through took time. As the weather got cold we had to chose between a winter coat for our dd and a booster seat. She had out grown her carseat. We bought the coat and went to the police department for a free booster seat.
I really feel it's none of my business what people buy with their food stamps. I don't know what is going on in their lives. It's not my place to judge.
I can certainly understand people needing assistance for a period of time, but I know too many people and work with them that it is a way of life. Their lifestyle is much higher than it needs to be. It is not this temporary thing that they are using until they get on their feet or get through a tough time. It is the way then live and so they have no motivation to better themselves and get more education. THere is just no motivation and it becomes a "right" or an "entitlement" not a temporary help like it should be and a lot of people need to be booted off and then maybee they will get some much needed motivation to work a little harder and maybee start taking some classes to make more money. There just isn't a lot of reasons for someone to not be able to go to school or to get a better job. I don't have a lot of sympathy for some people who complain about their way of life. NO one is holding you down you just have to make the decisin to do something about it.
oh and give up the hair appointments, cable, and eating out every week or more. YOu don't deserve treats and luxeries. YOu earn them. So many people think they deserve all these things and you don't. get up and work for them instead of everyone else working to pay for them for you
What about the ones who cut their own kids' hair, never eat out, don't have cable, never go to movies, etc?
There are many on assistance who ARE working, and working HARD, but still cannot make ends meet for the basics without it.
I think it's really harsh to say they don't deserve treats. If you've ever been in circumstances where a $.50 treat wasn't even possible for an extended period of time, you'd know how depressing that can be, not just for the parents but for the children too.
We're back to square one in this topic - yes, there are people who abuse the system and there always will be. And there are people who struggle daily to get OUT of the system and feel badly enough that it's necessary for them to be there in the first place.
I still won't begrudge a child a treat *on my nickel* every so often, and I'd certainly never tell one they didn't deserve one.
Many people on assistance are in a Catch 22 situation - when someone can come up with a workable solution, THEN I'll change my opinion about how their money is spent.
First of all I have seen many many people on assisstance more than most probably and have lived in communities where 95% of people are on assisstance. The people who are living frugally and still need help are far and few. I am not talking about treats as candy and pop I am talking luxeries like a nice car, cable television, nice appliances, pimped out cars, going to the grocery store and buying all the expensive ready made food they want, and all those type of things. 60% of our government budget go to entitlements. I say get out of the house and off your butt, stop feeling sorry for yourselve, dont spend more than you make and work for it like everyone else. I have yet to see a frugal family using assisstance until they get in a better position. For 90% of people it is a way of life. And it does not help people by letting them live their whole lives on assisstance. It drags them down and the communities they live in and soceity. I say tighten the regulations and guidlines. I whould rather see more money to things like instead of paying for all the food and housing and medical care give more incentive for them to go to school. say only pay a percentage while they are in school and then for a while when they get out. I just think that if people got out and did things on their own they would have a sense of pride and accomplishment and everyone would benefit. Allowing people to stay on it for years and years is not right. I am tired of paying for it.
Yes, here we are back to square one. Have you ever personally experienced this Juli? Its very easy to make judgements and draw conclusions from a naive point of view. I am guessing you have no idea what a catch 22 situation getting this help can put you in. It isn't always about getting out and doing more. Once again, perhaps if we all concentrated on the problems with the system that put people like my kids and me on assistance in the first place we wouldn't need to have this thread. People are paying for the courts too and no one ever complains about that issue.
I am tired of people stating that they are tired of paying for it.
I don't get my hair done. I don't have fake nails. I haven't bought new clothes in over five? years? My kids come first. And that's all there is.
No one is holding me down, huh? Do you know the rules to this game? You should thank God that you don't.
We don't deserve treats or luxeries, get up and earn them.... Hmmmm.... Last time I checked I had a job. Oh, but I am on assistance so I don't deserve a treat. No McDonald's once a month for me and my kids! We don't "deserve" it. Somehow we have become less than everyone else like you, who I assume works and pays for me to sit on my butt and do nothing.
*SIGH*
I am so tired of this. Its unbelievable.
Never seeing any frugal families doesn't mean there aren't any or that all who are on assistance are abusive. I don't know facts and figures on the issue so I'd like to know where the 90% comes from?
I serve people in a soup kitchen. Single men and women and families. Getting to know these people has given me an opportunity to find out where they come from and what happened. They are good people caught up in bad situations. Maybe if more people got out and helped those in need there would be a lot less distaste for them and more compassion.
Juli, with all due respect, you are 20 and I am almost 50, I think I've seen a little more than you have, both those abusing the system and those truly needing the little help it provides and using it wisely.
The statement you made, "I don't have a lot of sympathy for some people who complain about their way of life. NO one is holding you down you just have to make the decisin to do something about it." is not reality for many people. And, you said "get out of the house and off your butt, stop feeling sorry for yourselve, dont spend more than you make and work for it like everyone else." Making a decision to change your life is the easy part. Having the ways and means to do it is the greater challenge. You don't know that people who ARE working and on assistance aren't trying to *get out of the system*. But doing so is often easier said than done. Often, once you are *in the system*, it's designed to keep you there. You are penalized for every forward stride you make. When you are raising kids alone - and I'm talking about good, honest, hard working women who have been abandoned by the men they counted on - you sometimes need all the help you can get, just to stay afloat! Can you tell me how it is possible for a single woman to pay for or go to school full time, work full time at what is usually a minimum wage paying job, and pay for full time child care on top of that?? It simply is not possible.
Obviously you've had the good fortune to never be in that position. God willing, you never will be.
And obviously there are two distinct thought patterns regarding this topic, and opinions are very strong. I guess it boils down to whether or not you've actually been in that position, or been CLOSE to being in the position, or you know someone in that position. Believe, if you have first hand, personal knowledge of it, you tend to be a bit more open minded and less judgemental about it.
I have been on both sides here, I lived in an 18 ft RV for a year w/ no hot water, a leaky roof, a 5 yr old and a newborn. We only qualified for a *very* small fs amount, I think it was about $25 a month because my husband made too much money, which was all going to his ex for child support.
We were just able to buy our first home, the 5 yo is now 15, the newborn is 10 and there is an 8 and 3 yo now too.
I am pleased as punch to pay my taxes, I do not care how people on welfare spend their benifit. I choose to think that someday, things will be better for them, like it was for us and they will no longer need them.
For the people who never get off FS, I am sorry that it didnt happen for you, I do not begrudge you your soda, your candy, whatever, because I have BTDT and it stunk. Anything that makes a difference for you is OK by me. God bless and GL.
what do you mean first hand knowledge of it. I grew up in low income housing and my family was on welfare all my life. I left home at 17 got married have 3 kids with a husband in full time school and I work full time and we live on 18- 20 thousand dollars a year. And for a dingle mom there is aften more help available to go to school and pay for child care. You can get your child care paid for adn your schooling paid for along with assisstance with housing and healthcare and food. If you qualify adn a single mom with a low paying job usually does then you can with all that assistance. And I encourage people in that situation to do so. I just hate that people make it a way of life that they live on it all their life and then their children live on it and it becomes a generational thing more often than not. I am not talking about people buying soda and candy. I am talking about all the luxeries that a lot of people work for and save for that with someone else paying your food bil adn many other itmes necessary for living they have a lot of extra money that does not go to bettering themselves or their families. People get comfortable and want to keep letting people pay for thier lifestyle. It is more the mindset that comes from fs and other aids that is wrong not necessarily the aid. I want to help people I don't necessarily think that it is always up to the government though. People don't realize that throwing money at peoples bad financial situation does not always help them or the situation get better. IT is their thought process and habits and their general mindset keeping them in that situation. So giving them money all their life won't help them. I am sorry that you had it rough when you were younger and I hate to see people struggle I just realize that giving them money and doing things for them that they should do themselves doesn't help them, their children or anyone else.
Karen, you may be older and have seen more, but that doesn't necessary automatically mean you know more about everything or that someone younger doesn't understand the issues.
Ok well I haven't posted in a looooooooooong time but I can not sit this one out. I have been one both sides of this fence, and the main point every one doesn't get is what Karen pointed out above: "Having the ways and means to do it is the greater challenge. You don't know that people who ARE working and on assistance aren't trying to *get out of the system*. But doing so is often easier said than done. Often, once you are *in the system*, it's designed to keep you there. You are penalized for every forward stride you make. When you are raising kids alone - and I'm talking about good, honest, hard working women who have been abandoned by the men they counted on - you sometimes need all the help you can get, just to stay afloat! Can you tell me how it is possible for a single woman to pay for or go to school full time, work full time at what is usually a minimum wage paying job, and pay for full time child care on top of that?? It simply is not possible." I worked my butt off in minimum wage jobs trying to make ends meet. I didn't even have kids and it was difficult with 2 minimum wage jobs. I was enraged by those who were on welfare and were abusing the system. I never had the time to go back to school and never qualified for any assistance, except once when I lost my jobs because I couldn't pay for electricity making it impossible to wake up on time in turn losing my studio apartment. And before judgment is passed I did not drink or do drugs or even eat out and still didn't have adequate money to survive. As soon as I started to get out of this situation just a little bit ALL assistance was shut off. Luckily I had friends I could count on. But not every one is as fortunate. Would you take in one of your friends w/4 small kids until she could afford to get on her feet, through classes and watch her 4 kids while she was at work and school? Most situations in life may seem to be cut and dry , but this usually is not the case. I don't mind paying for those few lazy individuals who give the good people a bad name for the kids sake. Have you ever been to a country where there is no assistance? I have I have seen starving half naked bare foot kids where you can count every rib in there body. I am not rich or even well off by any means but I don't mind the few dollars that go to help needy people. Especially when more of our tax dollars pay for prisoners to watch cable TV have gyms and still not get educated while they sit there waiting to get out and return to a life of crime.
I think my husband's family was on food stamps when they were little. He has a point that the government penalizes you fast for trying to improve yourself. I think they got the government cheese too. Their house burned down and his dad had bladder cancer....
Also I now realize that a relative of mine wasn't on food stamps because she has $1000 too much money in the bank. Of course her family wasn't going to let her starve. So I don't know what to say.
Also if you have to be extremely mental fit and a real go getter - not a procrastonator to sort through the red tape and government burocracy to get the benefits. They really don't make it easy.
Mike is correct, my point is being missed - or mistaken.
I think the only reason the prision are so nice is so they prisoners don't kill the guards. I think they had alot of riots with dead guards so they had to make the prisions nice...
Actually I don't think you can get welfare for more than five years anymore.
Yes, Feona, the more you make the more they take away so you are in the same hole. I am actually operating at a loss right now. You are not allowed to have savings or a car or anything. Sometimes it just doesn't make any sense. Yes, you do have to be a go-getter and sane. I could write a book on the hoops I have had to jump through and the total inadequacy of the government workers and programs. Its a travesty.
Karen I get it.
Feona, as a point of information, you are right about cash welfare, which is only for a total of five years now. But food stamps, rent subsidy, medical assistance, WIC, and a variety of other programs don't have time limits. There are a lot of senior citizens out there, like the relative you mentioned, who are eligible for food stamps because they don't have pensions and their Social Security income is so low. Similarly, there are a lot of families where the wage earner is working full time and may be earning more than minimum wage but because of the size of the family they are eligible for food stamps and other support programs but not cash welfare.
http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m2548/is_221/ai_53709299
Interesting article I found while googling for in-service training hours.....addresses schooling issues also, and this is from 1999.
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