What are your thoughts about min wage? I do not think it needs to be raised. I also do not think that adults should be raising families on min wages.

Min wage is for teenagers and part time workers who are not trying to make a living.

Higher pay should come thru 1) education 2) work experience 3)talent/gifts

By raising the min wage, it lowers everyone else in the work forces pay. Those who started at min wage and have gotten pay raises over the past SEVERAL YEARS would now be back to square one of Min wage even after all those years of dedication to whatever their job.

How to fix the problem of those trying to live off of min wage....well, I am clueless, but raising it just does not make sense to me.

I have other thoughts on this about our society and how many feel they don't need to earn a better living, they just "need it" or deserve it. Where did pride in work go? Desire to move ahead thru hard work and/or education?

I brought this up because of Kerry's plan to raise min wage. I am voting for Kerry, but that is one point I am dead set against.

By Palmbchprincess on Friday, October 15, 2004 - 07:32 pm:

Many people around here work for minimum wage or slightly more. I think it should be raised. I understand your point, but what about those who do not have the education to start higher? Jobs are scarce, and many employers can find people to work for the minimum wage, which is clearly not enough to survive. Even entry level jobs, or "menial" jobs are requiring more and more education and experience, and still paying $5.15/hour. Those who take those jobs and work hard can get raises, but the raises are a pittance. It's a cost of living thing, it's been a while since the min was raised, but the cost of living has been rising steadily. For example, I was a SAHM from 19 to 21. I'm 22 now. I had work experience from 15 on, but the jobs I was qualified to do start at minimum wage. I am forced back into the workforce because of a divorce, but have to pay day care for my children. Say that's $150 a week for my 2 kids. I'm only bringing home $190-200 a week working 40 hours. that means I make $50-60 a week. Can you honestly tell me I should be able to survive on that? Do I go on welfare? Do I give up my children because I didn't go to college, and therefore cannot make more than pocket change? I'm a talented person, but have no higher education. What are my options? (Luckily, I've been able to find a friend to watch my kids, and a decent paying job, but it was very difficult.)

By Cocoabutter on Friday, October 15, 2004 - 09:49 pm:

I also believe that the min wage job was not intended to support a family and that higher wages come from education and work experience.

Which makes the point that George Bush and Dick Cheney tried to make in the last two debates and got criticized for- in order for there to be more people working, there must be more ways for people people to get educated. Knowledge is power, and education goes a long way in improving one's chances for a secure future.

By Boxzgrl on Friday, October 15, 2004 - 11:47 pm:

I don't think they should and for reasons stated by Dana.

Even at 16, I never worked for minumum wage. Granted, it was .10 over but it was never minimum. But at the age of 18 I went from making $6.75 at a pet shop to making $10.00 and eventually $12 an hour at a veterinary hospital. I worked 50-60 hour weeks and was easily pulling in $2500 a month. And that was on top of part time college. And I was majoring in journalism so being in college didn't help in getting my salaries, it was my mind thought that here in CA. I was worth making at least $10/hr if not more.

As far as other states, i'm not sure. I honestly cant even guess CA's min. wage right now. But I do know that at least here there are great opportunities for employment where there is on the job training, paid college tuition and sometimes no prior experience needed. There is too much opportunity for min. wage to go up forcing employers to pay higher salaries to those min. wage was intended for, which I believe were teens and part time workers.

By Imamommyx4 on Saturday, October 16, 2004 - 02:49 am:

The only thing raising minimum wage will accomplish is raising the price of everything else. If you raise the wage of the kid working at McD's instead of paying $2.95 for a Happy Meal, you'll be paying $4.00. Then everybody else needs a raise.

Raising min wage is not the answer.

By Unschoolmom on Saturday, October 16, 2004 - 08:09 am:

I doubt the hamburger price would go up that much. Min. wage has gone up here several times in the last few years and it has not meant price increases, esp. ones that big. Businesses still have to compete for customers after all.

As for education, it's no magic ticket. I know university grads who work flipping burgers. And regardless, those min. wage jobs will still need to be filled. Keeping those wages low seems to be a punitive measure against the people who need those jobs, jobs we need to be filled. And we can't pretend that they always have the option of experience or education to better their salaries. Can you make a go of school on min. wage when there's a family at home?

As for minimum wage not being meant to support families, well it does and that's the reality that needs to be addressed.

By Palmbchprincess on Saturday, October 16, 2004 - 01:36 pm:

The thing is, and I mean to offend no one here, there are floods of immigrant workers who will work for minimum wage here. Florida is the same way. Even the jobs that pay slightly more than minimum wage, say $6/hour, that is not enough to survive. The entry level jobs that pay the most around here, not including labor jobs... Nextel $9/hr, Convergy's $8.25/hr working in a call center, Sprint $10/hr working in a call center. That's about it, in a 50 mile radius. All the retail in this area start about $6, and most places DON'T give overtime. Why? Because there are too many people and not enough jobs. Why pay someone time and a half when someone else can work part-time for regular pay? And Melissa, though your degree didn't help you wages, many "entry level" positions are now requiring a certain amount of credits for hire. Therefore people like me, with no college, are not even qualified. And even trades, like firefighters... Nate is ineligible for a few fire departments, because his 6 years in the Army, and fire academy, and EMT school don't provide the 30 college credits he needs for those cities. (The credits don't have to be job related) Why do they require it? Because it makes their list of applicants smaller. Hundreds of people will show up and test for 1 position. Creating jobs is great, but if they are created at the current minimum wage I, and many other parents, CANNOT afford to work them.

By Boxzgrl on Saturday, October 16, 2004 - 02:08 pm:

Crystal,
Thats why I mentioned the fact that I didn't know my opinion on other states. I just know here in California within a 50 mile radius from me I could guess there to be jobs in the hundreds to thousands to fill and some with a salary up to $25/hr with no experience. I can see how it would differ in a small town or in your situation where there are too many people, too little jobs. But if you look in the long run won't that evetually hike up prices of everything else, leading back to square one? I'm just throwing that question out there because I really don't know, but it seems like a vicious circle I could see happening over and over and over.

By Palmbchprincess on Saturday, October 16, 2004 - 04:55 pm:

Melissa,
I thought about this all day, and there really is no easy solution. The state of our job market is pathetic, and there are so very few jobs in this area because of the size of the base. Raising the minimum wage may not be the solution, but here it's what people HAVE to work for. Honestly, the better option would be more school/training. I want very badly to go to school, but even with financial aid/grants/loans I cannot afford to right now. Daycare and supplies would be too costly, unless I work full time, and even then it would be hard. I don't think raising the minimum wage would affect prices that much. It's just a cost-of-living increase. Most employees get a cost-of-living increase in their wages, and with prices as high as they are now shouldn't the base wage go up? I do think it would be a band-aid fix, unless other changes were made to help train a better workforce, and keep jobs in AMERICA!! (Big sore point with me, because a big outsourcer is Dell, a local company!!)

By Boxzgrl on Saturday, October 16, 2004 - 07:57 pm:

Thats a good point. Now i'm a bit more interested in this, i'm gonna try to find some time to read up a bit.

By Emily7 on Saturday, October 16, 2004 - 10:20 pm:

In 1996 the minimum wage was $4.75 an hour, in 1997 it was raised to $5.15 an hour. I think that it needs to be increased because the cost of living has increased. If a single mother works 40 hours a week, before taxes at the current minimum wage she is making $206.00 a week. That is $824.00 a month before taxes, that is what housekeepers make here. However our apartments start at $650.00 a month for a 3 bedroom, including utilities. So how can a single income family live off from minimum wage without needing help from the government. The average yearly income in my town is about $35,000.00, the income for a person making minimum wage is $9888.00, that means they make $25,112 less than the average person in my town. It isn't teenagers making these wages either, it is people that want to work for what they have, and this is the best they can make for whatever reason. We have haul truck drivers that make $28.00 an hour, they do not have any more education than a housekeeper, they were just lucky to get a call back for a job. If an employee doesn't have to pay better, they won't. I managed a motel for a number of years & unless I begged for the employees to get a wage increase, they never did. I know the owners of that motel are not the only employers that do that. They get away with it because people need jobs. I would actually like to see it raised to $7-8 an hour.

By Kaye on Sunday, October 17, 2004 - 10:00 am:

I can see the point of raising the min wage, but I also see the point of if you raise the min wage everything else goes up also. Small business can;t afford to pay more unless they charge more. yes min wage is less than the average, people who make min wage I don't think are expected to provide for a family, yes it happens and then the gov should help. But we have different level of pay for different jobs, I agree with this. my hubby is an engineer at a chemical plant, he is around hazards every day, something could blow up, people get burned, get cut etc. He should get paid for that risk. The operators (non college) get paid 20 an hour with benefits for the same reason. Housekeepers just don't have the same risk. There are jobs that pay more, I dont' know how the market is, but in houston there are always jobs advertised for truck drivers, etc, people here are hiring and paying good for some less desirable jobs. Our schools are hard up for subs, the pay is good. My thoughts are just that supply and demand determine pay, min wage is not to change that, but to keep people from getting into a price war on who can pay less. Yes people will pay as little as they can to hire you, just as you will pay as little as you can when you buy something.

By Karen~moderator on Sunday, October 17, 2004 - 12:15 pm:

There are people with educations who make $8.00 an hour - sad, but true. Small business owners can't afford to pay that kind of money in minimum wage. Keep in mind, every time minimum wage is raised, other salaries need to go up accordingly - if they don't, we'll all end up making minimum wage again, and there's no sense to that.

Higher salaries mean higher prices charged for everything else. You have to balance it out somewhere. True, the cost of living has gone up considerably in the past few years, but unfortunately, salaries have not caught up to that. I think employers are going to be more willing to increase salaries of their skilled, educated workers than they are to increase minimum wage to $7 or $8 an hour.

If minimum wage is raised to say, $7 an hour, and say, for example, the counter help at McDonalds starts making $7 an hour, that hamburger that you pay $1 for now is going to start costing you $1.50 or $2.

Most fast food places, discount stores, department stores, grocery stores, movie theaters, etc. start their employees at minimum wage. Once minimum wage increases, everything you purchase in those places is going to go up in price, so to balance that out, all the wages of *skilled* labor will need to go up to.

The problem is, it's a viscious cycle. Minimum wage goes up, prices are raised. Everyone's income doesn't go up proportionately at the same time minimum wage is increased, so consequently they start spending less and doing less. At some point this starts affecting the businesses who are paying the increased minimum wage, so they start laying off employees. Who wins?

By Annie2 on Sunday, October 17, 2004 - 08:43 pm:

My dh went to truck driving school a couple of years ago. The tuition was $6000 for a three week course. We own our home, no car payment and still had to wait to see if we qualified for a loan.

Raising the minimum wage is a Catch 22. Try convincing the single parent on "MW" trying to make ends meet and save that the amount is okay. The single parent family making MW doesn't care if the price of a hambuger goes up because they aren't eating out anyway.

Companies have the option of starting someone at minimum wage. Not all do. If they do start someone at that level they can raise their income on performance, reliability, customer satisfaction, quality of work, etc. Minimum wage jobs exist because the turn over rate in these positions are so high.

By Boxzgrl on Sunday, October 17, 2004 - 09:13 pm:

Thats where i'm caught Karen. Who *does* win?

The only real reason I can agree to say no is that atleast here in CA., there really are too many opportunities for people to make a lot more than minimum wage. So, i guess i'll stick to my opinion that in CA, I think it shouldn't be raised (its currently $6.75 and Arnold wants it up to $7.75 by 2006!). I'd just have to give my opinion based on the stats of each state.

By Momoffour on Sunday, October 17, 2004 - 09:14 pm:

what sad is there are alot of people who work for minimum wage and try and survive on it. and its not there faults you have to take in consideration of just how expensive it is to go to school. and a person working and trying to go to school and also raise a family is rough. I do wish they would raise minimum wage. I have a niece who is in high school working rasing money to go to college. because her parents don't plan on helping her. and if she could make more money than let them.

By Palmbchprincess on Sunday, October 17, 2004 - 10:02 pm:

Wow, $6.75!!! Thats way above the federal minimum. Here is is $5.15... I'd not be complaining if it was $6.75!!!! I believe we are talking about raising the federal minimum, which I believe is $5.15.

By Emily7 on Sunday, October 17, 2004 - 11:41 pm:

I think that the turn over rate is high because of the rate of pay. If you are being paid nice & feel like you are appreciated you are going to stay at a job longer.

By Kaye on Monday, October 18, 2004 - 07:46 am:

But in CA your housing costs are through the roof. In houston you can get a nice 2000 sq foot house in a nice neigbhorhood for anywhere between 100-150k. In CA I think that buys you a box I think if you run the number CA actually gets a worse deal.

By Tink on Monday, October 18, 2004 - 11:51 am:

I agree! A 2000 sq foot house would cost $300,000 here but I think that *most* CA employers are aware of that and that is why so many jobs are offered at higher wages. Although Melissa and I rarely agree on politics *eg*, I agree with her that CA should not raise its minimum wage. Generally, fast food jobs and the like are the ones that are paying minimum wage. Even standard sales positions start at $7.00/hour.

By Mommyathome on Monday, October 18, 2004 - 09:00 pm:

I think it needs to go up. If I had a teen that was working, I don't think that $5.15 would be worth the hassle.
Prices of everything has gone up! The food the teen would buy, the cd's, the movies they go to, the gas they need for their vehicles. Therefore, I think the minimum wage should go up as well.
You can't keep minimum wage the same, when all other costs of living are rising. Regardless of *who* is working the job.

By Cybermommyx4 on Tuesday, October 19, 2004 - 01:01 pm:

My 16 year old DS works part time for $7.50 per hour - he pays his car insurance and maintenance, etc. and a lot of other things we just can't afford with four kids. I can't imagine trying to raise a family on that! DH has a good job with a fairly good salary, but we still qualify for fuel assistance, reduced lunches at school, lower electricity rate, etc. It's not the same world it used to be...

By Boxzgrl on Wednesday, October 20, 2004 - 10:44 am:

LOL Tink, I knew at some point in time we had to end up on the same page about *something* !

By Missmudd on Thursday, October 21, 2004 - 07:00 pm:

Here in oregon the minimum wage is around $7.15 an hour and it is going to raise again at the new year. And yes the cost of all our services go up every year right along with it. The small business owners are getting it right where it hurts. All our gas stations, stores, burger joints are now almost a completely adult work force. No business owner is going to give a kid a chance at $7.15 an hour, they almost have to hire the adults because they need to hire someone who can do a job an a half just to stay afloat. It has also forced alot of the farming community who up to this point have been hiring the local kids to do the work and above the board to hiring under the table. I have no idea how my kids are going to contribute to their college fund if they cant find a job. It really just means that the rest of the workforce who are not at minimum wage are just that much more closer to minimum wage. I can tell you that the wages for the rest will not raise with the minimum wage in january. Whats the answer? Dont have a clue,