Did Jesus have a religious affiliation?
Moms View Message Board: The Kitchen Table (Debating Board): Did Jesus have a religious affiliation?
Did Jesus have a specific religious affiliation?
I realize that might be taken sarcastically, I am not trying to be sarcastic, I take my dedication to My Lord seriously and I am asking an honest question.
Clearly, Mary had a visitation experience from The Lord God Almighty, Jesus's Father was God, to declare the birth of Jesus.
Mary and Joesph were Jewish. Joesph was Jesus's earthly father and M&J practiced Jewish traditions and holidays. Luke 2:21 states Jesus was presented at Temple on his eighth day for circumcision. And that M&J followed the Law of Moses. Luke 2:41 says Jesus was at the Temple when he was 12, and was so well-taught the Temple beliefs that he astounded the teachers there. So, Jesus must have attended Temple and been taught Jewish tradition to understand so much by age 12.
Now, the book of John, John 1:32 states that Cousin John was a Baptist and baptised with immersion but Cousin John lived in the woods and ate bugs. (It seems all families have one "member" who is "a little different"). So, clearly since Eccentric Cousin John baptised Jesus, Jesus was not baptised in a church. It looks like Jesus was baptised in a lake somewhere. So, he seems to have been taught Jewish tradition until age 12. We know Jesus started his ministry at age 30(?) when he was baptised by what would appear to be Baptist tradition at age 30. So far, Jesus was a Jewish Baptist.(?) I'm asking.
But then, Jesus is at a wedding (John 2) and they run out of wine, and Mary ask Jesus to perform His first miracle. (All weddings have at least one crisis maybe it is a Biblical Tradition) and I don't think that Baptist condone drinking, so if Jesus violated Baptist tradition does that mean He is back to being a practicing Jew??? or is he a Baptist who says it's okay to drink in moderation? So I guess his religious affiliation was Jewish.
But then, in John 2:14, Jesus is zealous in The Temple and chases folks out with a whip. So, it doesn't look like He agreed with everything the Jewish folks did, either.
Now, in John 2:23 Jesus attends a Passover Feast and many people believed in His Name. But Jesus would not entrust himself to them, for He knew all men. Does that mean Jesus did not entrust Himself to a religious affiliation? And in John 3:5 Jesus states we must be born again. Isn't that the foundation for a lot of the Protestant faiths? (Christian, Lutheran, Presbytarian) isn't the one thing all the encompassing Christian faiths believe is that we must be born again and dedicate our lives to The Lord? So did Jesus become a Protestant Christian at that time???
And John 3:16 is a famous evangelistic foundation. Many churches are evangelistic. But the evangelist that stands out in my mind is Billy Graham. Billy Graham, I think, was raised Presbytarian but now affiliates himself with The Baptist, I believe. So we are back to Cousin John???
Now, clearly we know the Pharisees were hypocrites and Jesus did not align himself with them, but Jesus did talk to the Samaritan Woman (John 4) and the Samaritan were despised by the Jews, so did Jesus renounce Jewish tradition when he spoke to the Samaritan woman?? And when the Samaritan woman asks Jesus a religious question, Jesus's response is, "....worship neither on this mountain nor in Jerusalem...salvation is from the Jews....true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth, for they are the kind of worshipers the Father (God) seeks. God is spirit and His worshipers must worship in spirit and in truth." John 4:21
Now, Pentecost was after Jesus's resurrection, after the disciples received The Holy Spirit and Jesus breathed on the disciples before His ascenscion and said "Receive The Holy Spirit" so was Jesus a Pentecostal after His resurrection???
But, wait, didn't Jesus tell Peter "upon this rock I will build my church?" and isn't that the foundation for the Catholic Church?? For some reason, I thought Peter was the first Catholic. So did Jesus mean that Peter was to begin the Catholic Church, did Jesus intend to say that He (Jesus) would convert and be Catholic?
But then, in the Saul/Paul story, Saul is a devout and devoted Jew who is killing Christians (this was after the Pentecost experience) so I guess, Saul, as a Jew was killing Pentecostals? And Saul is specifically called to tell Gentiles about Jesus. Now, is Saul called to tell the Gentiles about Pentecostal faith or Jewish faith? Or maybe Paul was the first Messianic Jew?? (A Jew who believes in Jesus). So, were all the churches Paul started Messianic Jew churches??
Does Jesus endorse a specific religion or a specific practice of baptism or christening?? Or does it seem Jesus is the answer for us all regardless of religious affiliation in the Christian world??
As far as I can read in The Word of God Almighty, it seems Jesus was born of the Jewish race and affiliated himself with the Jewish Temple, The Baptist baptism, but then Jesus says we must be born again, and that is a foundational block of the Protestant faiths, but Jesus appears to take a very evangelistic approach in His teachings, so was he a carismatic?? (The folks who are very demonstrative when it comes to "being saved") Well, we know Jesus was not a Pharisee. And of course, none of the Christian religions today align themselves with such hypocrites as the exclusive, "we are the only ones who are right" Pharisees," right??? But then, we have Jesus instructing the disciples to wait for Pentecost and at Pentecost, the disciples spoke in tongues, and this was after Jesus's ascension into Heaven. So after Jesus's ressurrection, did He (Jesus) become Pentecostal? But wait, what about Peter and the Rock of Foundation, wasn't that the Catholic church? So, was Jesus saying that the Catholics are right? Was Jesus endorsing the Catholic Church? Or all we all Messianic Jews? I wasn't born Jewish, I am an American Mutt Mixture!!! So if I want to worship Jesus in the correct church, should I convert to and go to Temple? But wait, I don't think traditional Jews believe Jesus was The Messiah do they??? It seems I have come "full circle". I am back to The Jews, but traditional Jews do not believe Jesus was The Messiah and The Messiah has done much too much for me personally to renounce him now! So, what religious affiliation was Jesus?? I want to raise my children as Christians, believeing in God, Creator of The Universe, God's Holy Son and My Personal Savior, Jesus Christ, and The Indwelling of The Holy Spirit and The Bible as the Word of God!!! And my husband and I absolutely do not compromise when it comes to basing our marriage on The Christian Faith. We do not push our beliefs down other people's throats but we don't compromise The Sacred Truth, either.
I would hate to raise my kids in the "wrong religion" or in the "wrong church" or with the "wrong baptism", my goodness, these religious organizations are so important, I've heard that Some Religions have their own private rooms in Heaven so that they don't know "The Other" religions are there.
I have heard an old saying, "All it takes to start a "new church" is two folks with the same resentment against "that other church" , a Bible and a coffee pot....that can't be true, right???
First off I am NOT an expert. Second, I sort of skimmed this as it seemed the only way to get the gist without getting thoroughly confused. 
Jesus was born and raised Jewish. He was also born the Messiah. His disciples were Jewish. From what I can understand, John the Baptist was also Jewish. I don't see how he could have been a baptist as we think of baptists today, since Christianity (of which the baptist faith is part of) did not exist until the resurrection of Christ. I don't know why he was called 'John the Baptist' and I don't know why he did immersion baptisms. Baptism can certainly take place in a lake or any body of water.
When Jesus rose from the dead and His followers believed it was truly Him and He was indeed the Messiah, they became Messianic Jews. The gentiles who believed Jesus was the Messiah became Christians.
The bible doesn't name any one particular denomination and most of them probably didn't even exist back then. John 3:16 probably pretty much sums up what God asks of you and the way to Heaven.
Peter may have been the first 'Catholic' but I think Catholocism back then was far different from what it is today. Today it is based on more than the bible (which is forbidden somewhere in Revelations) and each decade it seems things change or get added to this particular religion.
Denomination is not important. What is important is true belief and a true relationship with the trinity and a true practice of these beliefs.
Oh, and as for the wine at the wedding....back then it was different. Wine was common and accepted. You weren't supposed to get drunk, though. Wine was pretty much just a beverage, like water. If you watched Frontier House it said that 400 years ago EVERYONE drank beer, including the children.
Are you being just a tad bit facetious? ;)
If not. John was born to be the 'messenger'. He lived out in the wilderness because he could not be "off man". John even recognized that Jesus should be baptizing him, but Jesus insisted he do it to fulfil prosphecy. Jesus was Jew. He was the Jewish Messiah. After his crucifixtion, he admonished the disciples to go forth and baptize all men, after the pentecost, they were able to speak in many tongues and travel spreading the word. The Jews for many reasons had some issues with Christ being the Messiah...many stemming from the breaking down of Jewish laws of sacrifice and food issues. It become more so after Saul's conversion to Paul and he began to preach Jesus's message to include Gentiles. This was the final straw and probably resulted in the true beginning of the Christian church.
There are many demonimations that interrupt parts of the bible differently..baptism, drinking ect.
If you always look to the scripture rather than man's interruption, I think you will find the answer.
this is a great site for info on John the Baptist
http://www.bjnewlife.org/english/bstudy/sermons_05.php
As to the one true church.....
What is the true church of God? http://www.bjnewlife.org/english/bstudy/faq_21.php
The church of God is where the righteous, those who are redeemed and sanctified in Christ by believing in the baptism and blood of Jesus, gather together and worship God (1 Corinthians 1:2). The true church of God, as recorded in Ephesians 4:5, is a place where all members believe in "one Lord, one faith, one baptism; one God and the Father of all."
If you are really interested, read "The Faith, A History of Christianity" by Brian Moynahan.
In a factual, non-partisan way, the author takes you through the history of Christianity from the birth of Christ up until the present day. He leaves no stone unturned, an uses a great wealth of primary sources.
From the beginning, there was never one, true church. Mostly geography, culture, economics and sometimes even dogma split the Way, a sect of Judaism (as it was known in the beginning) into many different and warring factions.
I warn you, it is an intense read, because of all the historical points and references the author uses. At no time does his personal opinion enter into his writing.
I am finally up to the Spanish colonization of the Americas, and frankly from all that I've read so far, I am sickened by what Christians have done to non Christians, and what Christians have done to Christians from the beginning.
We are so lucky to live in a time and place where we have the freedom to question religion without fear of reprisal.
In my humble opinion, meaning no disrespect to anyone - I don't think any of us have it right or wrong, because there is no one right religion. Religion is as much a cultural construct as government is. Just as there is no one right culture for the entire world, there is no one right religion, let alone one right form of Christianity.
The religion that you follow, if you follow one at all, depends on who you are, what you believe and where you would like to end up.
As far as Jesus' religion or that of John, or any of the other Biblical persons - they were Jews who questioned the status quo. They searched for more meaning and for a closer relationship with the eternal - which is what each of us does.
Ame
I am honestly asking the question.
Yes, I am being facetious.
Yes, I am being sarcastic.
But these really are the questions that go through my head when I read or hear debates about denominational issues.
I really do wonder........
God probably is laughing.....
I know faith in God, Jesus Christ and The Holy Spirit and The Word of God matters.
But does denomination/religious affliation really matter??
Aren't most of these traditions based on man's need for "markers" of their religious journey and not so much on what The Lord expects from us???
"I know faith in God, Jesus Christ and The Holy Spirit and The Word of God matters."
Do these things matter to a non Christian? Are these things necessary to an atheist?
What you are questioning is based one's own individual wants, desires, needs, beliefs, and cultural background and biases. Really, if you are looking to further your understanding of Christianity and the whole denominational phenomena, then read the book I posted about. It will give you plenty to think about.
Ame
If we did not have denominations, we would not be keeping one of the things that Christ asks of us "to be in a fellowship of believers". So, I guess they are a necessary evil! ;) Even so called "non demoninational Christian" churchs disagree on some issues of minor theology.
As far as just being markers, even that can be debated. With the baptism issue as an example, how is it going against God's word to stand up publically and announcing that you are going to raise your child in the Christian faith? It's a pretty amazing "marker" for the parent that choses to do that. As just of significant marker for the child/young adult that stands up in front of his congregations and says that he loves Jesus and wants to have him in his life. Each of these "markers" are beautiful in God's eyes.
And, yes, I have often thought that God is sitting in heaven rolling his eyes over some of the things that we pick apart about Christianity.
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