Resurrecting This Issue Again.....
Moms View Message Board: The Kitchen Table (Debating Board): Resurrecting This Issue Again.....
'Tis the season, and time to re-ignite the issue of "Merry Christmas" vs. "Happy Holidays". Something happened this week to bring this subject to mind again.
I work in a doctor's office. Because I spend more of my "awake" hours there than I do at home, I like to decorate it for the season (Hallowwen, Thanksgiving, Christmas, etc). We have windows where you check in and out, with sliding glass. They have all these cute little stickers now that are like Jello that peel on and off the glass easily. They also serve the purpose of making the patients aware of the glass. Before I started putting them up, at least three times a day, someone would bang against the glass, thinking the window was open.
I bought some pretty Christmas ones with pointsettas, stars, trees, etc. Also in the package were letters spelling out "Merry Christmas". I decorated on Wednesday. I saw the Doctor looking at the windows. Then she told me, very kindly, that she HATED to ask, but would I please take just the "Merry Christmas" down. We are all born-again Christians in the office, including the doctor. She said that she was afraid that we would offend our non-Christian patients. I told her that I am SO sick of Christmas being diluted in the name of PC. That whatever else the third week in December is, such as Hannukah, it IS also Jesus' birthday. Since WE are all Christians in the office, it reflects what WE believe. If a Jewish person wished me "Happy Hannukah", I would be honoured, not offended, because it would mean that they were wishing for me something that they hold sacred.
I am also very tired of having to deny my beliefs because I might offend a Moslem. There was recently a big flap in the news because a child named a teddy bear Mohammed, after a boy in her class, no less; not the prophet.
The doctor said she agreed with me, but she IS a business person, in a sense, and couldn't afford to offend people. I did as she asked and removed the letters, but as I did, in my mind, I am saying "I'm so sorry, Jesus". I felt like I was betraying Him. If I could find stickers honouring other faiths, I would have put them up as well.
I would be interested in hearing from some of our non-Christian Moms. How would YOU feel if you saw that? Would you be offended? Lets talk about it.
I am Jewish, and no, that would not offend me one bit. Personally, I just think the whole thing is stupid, I mean, people who get offended by someone wishing you Merry Christmas, Happy Hannukah, Happy Kwanza, whatever it may be, must be pretty insecure about their own beliefs, in my opinion.
I am Christian and I would not be offended or annoyed if someone said "Happy Hannukah" to me.
I also work at a doctor's office and I always say "Have a great Holiday" to the patients although I'd rather say Merry Christmas because that's what I celebrate.
Ditto Jodes!!!!!!!!!!! People try to find a way to turn something nice into something they can complain about. If someone said Happy Hanukah to me (I'm not Jewish) it's still a happy wish for me and my family. Nothing more, nothing less. We have a SERIOUS problem in this country and I can't even imagine where we will end up because of it.
Thank God we can debate this issue!! Imagine living somewhere where we could not talk about this? Imagine living somewhere where there was only one religion allowed? Imagine living somewhere where you had to be VERY CAREFUL what you named your pets - real or imagined?
I beg to differ, Deanna  , but we don't have a serious problem in this country. We are very lucky to have this problem!
Do I feel "Merry Christmas" belongs in a place of business all by itself without other holidays being mentioned? No. Would I be offended - maybe that's too strong. I would be feeling left out.
I can liken it to this. My heritage is Italian. I am first generation American. When I see signs in four or five different languages and Italian is not one of them, I feel miffed. What? Italian is not important enough? Italians are not important? Extrapolate this to holidays -What? Ramadan, Kwanzaa (add your own) is not important enough for others to acknowledge?
Holiday time is a time for all people of good will to celebrate those universal things that unite rather than divide - peace, charity, love ,...
I know where you are coming from - that this is Christmas and you want to shout it from the roof tops - but - isn't it more in keeping with the spirit of Christmas to be inclusive, peaceful and welcoming?
That's only my opinion. But I am so happy to live in a country where I can have one.
Ame
I pretty much agree with Ame in that I think it's best to keep things neutral when dealing with the public. I'm thinking how I would feel if I went to an establishment that was staffed with all Jewish personnel. (Not that I pay attention to these things, just using this as an example.) If I went in the office as a patient, and on the front receiving window were the words, "Happy Hannukah" I wouldn't be offended, but I would feel left out. Hol, I can understand how the doctor you work for wouldn't want people to feel omitted. I worked with the public for years, so it never bothered me to keep things neutral. With my family and friends, that's different. I just think it's more considerate of others to keep things impartial when dealing with the general public.
Ame, yes! How wonderful we have this freedom of choice.
Given that we are such a commercial nation, I don't object strongly to Christmas trees, Santa Claus, Rudolph, the endless playing of Rudolph the Red-Nosed Reindeer or I Saw Mommy Kissing Santa Claus on the radio or loudspeakers, or the Easter Bunny as part of commercial advertising and decoration. I do, however, think that sacred displays, such as a nativity scene or the cross, are sacred, and should not be part of commercial displays or advertising. For me, the public Christmas is a secular holiday that in this country, England, and parts of western Europe has become a winter holiday and mostly has been hyped by businesses who want to convince us that gift giving somehow celebrates a sacred event, leading up to the big New Year blasts. For me, I celebrate Christmas in my church, from the beginning of Advent through Christmas Eve and Christmas Day, and observe Lent and celebrate Easter at my church. And I celebrate the seasonal holiday with my family, just like birthdays, Thanksgiving, and the 4th of July. I personally resent the commercial hijacking of what are sacred periods and observances in my faith.
As for Hannukah, while it also observes/celebrates a miracle, it is only in countries where Christmas is so all-pervasive in December that Hannukah has become a big thing. It was consciously hyped up by some Jews to provide an alternative way for them to give gifts to their children so they wouldn't feel left out when their Christian schoolmates got Christmas gifts (even, sadly, to the point of a Hannukah Bush in some families). And has, to some extent, been taken over by commercialism. Most Jewish observances are primarily family/home and synagogue observances, and I wish we Christians did the same for Christmas and Easter and got away from some of the commercialism.
Ditto Ame and ditto Nicki. What is so wrong or offensive about recognizing the diversity of the people who live in this nation? Aren't there more important things to worry about and make a public fuss about? In Sudan, thousands of people demonstrated calling for the death of a woman who allowed her students to vote on a name for a teddy bear; in this country we have some religious leaders calling for boycotts of stores who, in an effort to be all things to all people, use Happy Holidays instead of Merry Christmas (and I personally think such calls for boycotts are un-Christian - and think of the example of Jesus sitting down to dinner with the tax-collector). But at least no one is demonstrating for the death of the Chairman of Target.
Interestingly, during Cromwell's rule of England, the Puritans banned celebration of Christmas as a pagan holiday, which was also the rule for Puritans (who were also the "secular" government) in New England from approximately the mid-1650s to the early 1680s.
Hhhmmm.....more in response to Ame's post , I would not feel left out at all. If I lived in a neighborhood, and after moving here realized that EVERYONE on my block was Jewish, I wouldn't feel left out at all. I have my Christian beliefs and I feel good about those, it's not a matter of how "in" or "out" I feel. If my dentist was African-American and has Kwanzaa signs and candles all over his/her office, I would not feel left out. I would learn a few things about Kwanzaa that day and move on back to my Christian Christmas beliefs. I'm sorry to differ Ame but I think we have HUGE problems in this country. A huge part of those problems is SOMEONE IS ALWAYS FEELING LEFT OUT. The reality is that someone is always GOING to be left out of something somewhere. It doesn't mean that the left out ones in that particular moment are not equal or worthy or good enough. It means if we try to include every single thing on every single sign in every single holiday in every single scenario we end up doing nothing because we're all just trying to please, please, please.
Ame, I see your viewpoint on Italian languages not being posted when others are, but really where does the language list (for example) end? There are too many languages to include. It seems that French and Spanish are spoken more commonly here, so those are included. Doesn't that make sense? I'm definitely not trying to offend by any means, that's just the way I see it.
Bigger seats on planes for heavier people means smaller seats for the tiny ones? A doctor offends because he "accidentally" wishes good things on someone but says "Merry Christmas" instead of "Happy Holidays"? (Not saying that anyone here would necessarily be offended by that, but obviously SOMEONE would or we woudn't be having this conversation.) My child isn't Jewish so she shouldn't hear ANYTHING about the Jewish religion at school? I hardly think so, but that's the way it is!!
It's just so old, so played, and so ridiculous. People are so worried about being left out. People should be who they are and be happy about it, feel confident in it. People spend so much time comparing themselves and 'keeping score'.
Let me tell you, if we're keeping score, the Christians are at the BOTTOM fo the score list!! "We" can't talk about Christian traditions in schools, government places, stores, businesses, ANYWHERE, because we might offend. But we definitely have to study DIVERSE holidays at schools (I know first hand) because why? We don't want to leave anyone out. We're leaving out the Christians!!! Why is that so offensive but the others are not?
It's very frustrating. JMHO.
Sorry, one more thing. When I do walk into a place supporting one particular holiday (and I do and I have), the only thing that comes to mind is 'how nice that we can all celebrate how we want to'. Then I remember that's really not true - you can only celebrate the way you want to if you're NOT Christian. Jesus is just offensive. ???????
I have to back up Deanna here. She quite eloquently put my feelings into words. Ginny, you've given me a great point of view about keeping the secular public and the faith-based private and personal. I have a feeling I'll be adopting that perspective in my holidays now.
It terrifies me, the price we will pay in the end for "not wanting to offend anyone". If you don't want to pray or celebrate the life of Jesus, fine don't but why do Christians have to suffer for the ones that don't believe. Our children don't get to pray in school, just so we don't offend anyone, how ridiculous! (In my opinion)
Joelle, Cori, and Deanna - THANK YOU THANK YOU. That's the point that I was getting at. The young nurse in our office said that, too, as I was removing the "Merry Christmas" from our window. Her husband is a seminary student, and she said "We Christians have become the minority". And, as you stated, because we don't want to "offend" or "leave someone out", then Christians are deprived of celebrating THEIR way, in public, at least, and NO ONE gets to observe the religious part of any holiday that they celebrate. That is a slippery slope, because I do believe that ANY country or people that turn their back on God (whatever you call Him) are in for hard times.
When I was child in public school, a half-century ago, we opened our morning with The Lord's Prayer and the Pledge of Alegence (sp) to the flag (USA). Even then, if a child did not want to participate, they were asked to just stand quietly by their desk. It wasn't forced on them. But of course, in those days, we didn't have school shootings, or teach a child how to put a condom on a banana.
In an effort to be PC, we are eliminating EVERYONE'S God from our public life.
I guess I'm confused why some would like the addition of prayer in school. I grew up attending public schools. My family was very religious. I understood, even when young, that my feelings about God and my family's religion were personal. The time to talk about these feelings and beliefs was at church, at home or among others with similar faith. Saying prayers in school, as a group, would not have strengthened my faith, nor did I feel I suffered in any way. Church, Sunday school and church gatherings were sufficient enough time to be with others and pray. I realize these are my personal thoughts and feelings. I'm just trying to understand where others are coming from on this topic. Why is prayer in school important? Is it not sufficient to attend one's church and it's various gatherings specifically meant for fellowship and prayer?
One more thing...one of my own doctors is Jewish and the other one is Hindu. I hold both men in very high esteem. If I saw a holiday display in their office, representing their religion, I would NOT be offended. I, too, would think how blessed we are to live in a country where we can do that, and I might want to do some research to find out more about those customs and observances. I certainly would NOT feel "left out" or demand that they also represent my religion as well. In fact my Jewish doctor's medical diploma says he graduated from a medical school in Israel. My Hindu doctor has a huge picture of the Taj Mahal in HIS office. They are both (rightly) proud of their heritage. It is their office. They can do as they wish.
However, as has been said, that seems to be acceptible, and even commended for everyone BUT Christians.
Would you tell an African-American doctor to take down his Kwaanza display because it offended you? (Sorry, but I'm steamed up).
Nicki- For me it's not about "adding" prayer to school, it's just making it 'allowable' if you so choose. Currently it's forbidden!! It's not "if you choose fine, if you don't choose to, fine". Instead, it's "You CANNOT. It is illegal."
As an elementary student, we had a moment of silence before lunch each day. I'm not saying that should be a required part of the school day at all, but if a teacher and 3 students choose to pray together before a meal, that should be "allowed". That's against the law. If I were to pray a silent prayer at my desk, and have 3 students join me, you can bet there would be a call to the school as SOON as someone found out about it. And as a teacher, I can assure you that if I read the Biblical Christmas story or put up a nativity in my room - as part of the "diversity" that we are "required" to teach, it would not fly. "Diversity" apparently only applies to Kwanzaa and Hannukah, and any other holiday celebration EXCEPT the birth of Jesus.I definitely don't think it should be required that students pray, or that teachers lead any prayers, but it should be allowed for those who wish to participate. We could not pray at our H.S. graduation - absolutely no way. 110 students signed a petition to pray - the entire senior class - and it was not allowed because the school feared legal action. Hello?!?!?!
We're so worried about being left out, but the Christians ARE in the minority and no one sees that IMO. Putting a nativity in your window at the dr. office or a menorah in your hair salon is simply showing your belief - just like putting a bumper sticker on your car for heaven's sake. It's not pushing your beliefs on someone, it's just proudly showing where your heart is.
Saying, "Oh I'm sorry I can't say Merry Christmas because it might make you think the word 'Jesus'" is just so insane in my view.
Hol - No way would anyone tell an African-American doctor to take down his Kwanzaa display. NO WAY is that going to happen. That's not only politically incorrect for holiday reasons, but an issue for the ACLU as well! Ludicrous IMO.
I'm not a Bible thumper by any means, but I am a Christian. I don't have to be in the majority, I just want it to be fair. It's not. If this country really were so fantastic, we'd all celebrate how we want and no one would worry about who said 2 words to them (i.e., Merry Christmas vs. Happy Holidays) or if there's a menorah in their office.
Sorry Nicki - to answer your last question, group prayer in school isn't important. It's being ALLOWED to do it at school, not that everyone should or the requirement of it.
No, I would defend the right of anyone to put up a display of their beliefs. However, I do feel that a person running a business frequented by people of many faiths and backgrounds is showing a lack of basic respect and courtesy by putting up a religious display in their place of business without acknowledging the beliefs of others. I would be uncomfortable and probably not go to that business again.
The words "merry Christmas" without and "happy holidays" is leaving out a whole segment of people who do not celebrate Christmas.
Honestly, what is the big deal about saying Happy Holidays and being generic in a place that is not a private home or place of worship?
I would not want prayer in schools. I don't want my children leaning some watered down version of Christianity in school. My religious instruction belongs in my home and in church. I'm glad we don't talk about Jesus in public schools - I would find that somehow offensive as a Christian, especially since we Christians have so many varied ways of looking at Him and interpreting His words ourselves.
I really think that in the United States we need, as a people, to get passed the semantics of all of this. When you say, "Happy Holidays" you ARE saying Merry Christmas - isn't Christmas a holiday?
To me, it really boils down to being inclusive and welcoming. Everyone has the right to put up whatever display they choose - but that doesn't necessarily make it correct or in good taste to display one religious symbol in a place of business and ignore all the others. It's like saying, "I celebrate this and if you do, well Merry ... if you don't, well that's too bad. I don't need to wish you a happy whatever you celebrate". It just feels rude to me.
Wearing a religious symbol is different. Here you show what you believe. You are not offending anyone. You are not implying that everyone should believe a certain way or celebrate a certain holiday. You are showing your beliefs and your choice.
I don't expect to sway any-one's opinion. I'm just stating my own. It's funny, my dh and I discussed this last night and we both had different opinions.
Regardless --- Merry and Happy ___________ (fill in the blank).
Ame
OK, group prayer in school. When some students stand quietly and say nothing and others pray, some of the students who pray will tease or pick on the ones who stand quietly. Fact. It happened, more than often enough that the matter got to the Supreme Court. Nice Christian behavior - NOT. As for your quiet prayer, Deanna, if you as a teacher lead a prayer, you are representing authority, and authority cannot favor one religion over another. If students choose on their own to get together and quietly pray before lunch, I would think it no big deal *unless* they started inviting other students to join until it became a large part of the class, which is when you again run the risk of those not participating being singled out.
By the way, I refer you to Matthew 6, especially verses 5 and 6, which lead into the Lords Prayer.
If Christianity is a minority in this country, why does almost every business close on Christmas Day? Why is Christmas Day a holiday which almost every employer recognizes and gives a paid day off for? Why, in fact, does almost every store and certainly all the chain stores start Christmas decorations even before Thanksgiving?
You can teach all you want about Christian traditions and history in school, and I can give you links to some good sites that show how to do that. What you cannot do is teach Christianity as a faith that should be followed, or lead prayers. You can study the Bible as a book, as long as you study books from and about other faiths. A lot of school districts don't want to take the trouble to learn how to teach about religions in general, so they don't teach about religion at all - which I think is a shame. I don't know how any school can teach about history without teaching about the religions that helped shape history.
Again, with regard to prayer in schools, I never said I advocate the teaching of religion in public schools. Never said I think that prayer should be part of a daily routine at school. Just that if you CHOOSE to pray, you can. That it shouldn't be banned.
I also don't want others teaching my child religion in public school. That wasn't the question that was brought up though.
I would not advocate that a teacher lead a prayer with words. I think I said silence. ALLOWING prayer in schools does not in any way mena the teaching of religion/faith/etc.
We ARE teaching about religion at Christmastime, but we are NOT teaching ANYTHING about Christianity. No one sees a problem with that! We teach about the Jewish faith primarily, and Kwanzaa traditions. Do you think the Jewish want me teaching about their religion? Most likely not, since I'm not Jewish, but I'm expected to teach about it because we have to be "fair". But it's NOT fair. I wouldn't even be comfortable telling someone else's child about Christianity - that's not it at all. I just can't even read a story with a Christian-theme (mentioning God, for example) or I'm breaking a law. I beg to differ that you can teach about Christian traditions in school. The law may be written that way, but it isn't going to happen without a fight. Christian tradition IS teaching Christianity in the eyes of many who are not Christian. You will have someone knocking at your door and calling your principal in the blink of an eye. BTDT and could name countless other teachers who have experienced the same thing, 99% of whom were presenting only Christian traditions and not preaching to anyone. (Including myself)
Good question Ginny about why every Christian holiday is also a government holiday. There's God all over our gov't buildings, that's huge hypocrisy in itself. Retail places decorate before T'Giving because they're trying to make $.
Ame-I see your point about Happy Holidays, I just disagree.
With regard to kids getting snickered at for praying and that being the reason for removal of prayer in schools. It may be a fact, but it doesn't fly with me at all. Preposterous IMO. What other laws will we pass when kids get laughed at? Kids are laughed at DAILY - mean, cruel things are done by children to other children. That is the fact and no laws will ever change that.
Ditto, Ame and Ginny. Think about it. I think most of us have been raised with the message that it is risky to initiate discussions of one's religious or political beliefs, especially in the work environment. Here at M.V., we only discuss these things at the Kitchen Table to avoid upsetting those who may not want to participate or be subject to such sensitive subjects. Out of respect for our members who do not wish to discuss these matters, we meet here. I am not one to place bumper stickers on my car. Now some of them are quite fun, and I have nothing against them in general, I myself just don't care for bumper stickers. I'm especially annoyed when I come up behind someone with a very clear religious or political message. I guess I feel that if I keep my opinions and feelings about such things to myself, I wish others would do the same. I'll gladly discuss such topics if asked, but I like to give people the choice. So my point is, should an individual's religious beliefs be brought into the professional workplace where one is dealing with a diverse group of people? I don't feel it's appropriate. While I would love to be invited over to the home of someone who celebrates Kwaanza and learn of it's cultural significance, I don't think it belongs displayed in the person's office. No more than I would find it appropriate for a Christian doctor to have a large portrait of Jesus Christ on the wall behind his desk if this doctor is serving the general public. He's certainly has every right to do so, it's just not a choice I would make in a professional/business setting. It seems in poor taste. JMHO There is a time and place for everything.
I forgot to add that I'm also having a hard time understanding the feeling that Christianity is becoming the minority. We went to our local Christmas parade last night and we actually left early because of the crowd! We live in a small town and I think every one showed up. Just about every church in town had it's own float so there was plenty of religious representation.:-)
I always thought "Happy Holidays" was about putting Merry Christmas and Happy New Year together, when I was a kid. I think the people in the minority are actually the people who get so upset about these things. What, some guy wants to change the words to the pledge? Someone got mad because they don't celebrate Christmas? To me, when you enter a retail store, religion is the last thing on anyone's minds. The commercialization of Christmas couldn't have less to do with faith. The shopping part is 100% American in my opinion. Mery Christmas or Happy Hannukah or whatever are good wishes period.
As far as schools, I think it should be a graduation requirement to be educated on ALL major religions, portrayed equally. It would be a start in the right direction towards some of the prejudice there is. I don't think the faith of our elected leaders should matter at all. I also don't think there should be all this "Arab American, Chinese-American" business either. I think if people come here, it's because they want to be American. With very rare exception we all came form immigrants. If you want your children to keep certain traditions or languages that's fine. But I think it's like religion, it's personal and should be kept in the home. People should learn English instead of telling me I should learn Spanish. I think the p.c. terms serve to label people and divide. If we're all Americans we should unite as Americans around a big Christmas tree, sip some Starbucks and silently thank whatever God we believe in that America is where we call home. There isn't anything in any Bible I've ever read about a Christmas tree.
I am a Christian and my teachings tell me that I am to walk in faith openly. Which means I am not to hide my faith in my church, in my home and behind closed doors only with people that have accepted Christ, as I am taking others are suggesting here.
To deny my faith would be denying a huge part of who I am. It would be like denying I am a wife, a mother, a woman, an American, white etc.. Being a Christian and walking in my faith in front of people was a huge part of my commitment when I made my profession of faith.
The Bible says, which I know it has brought up that people want verses that support the reasoning so here they are...
Matthew 28:18-20 : “All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth. Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.”
Mark 16:15-16 : “Go into all the world and preach the gospel to all creation. He who has believed and has been baptized shall be saved; but he who has disbelieved shall be condemned.”
Not to be condemned by me... or anyone else for that matter. (Psalm 75:10) "...the Lord will be the final judge of all men."
John 20:21 : “Peace be with you; as the Father has sent Me, I also send you.”
Acts 1:8 : “But you shall receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you; and you shall be My witnesses both in Jerusalem , and in all Judea and Samaria , and even to the remotest part of the earth.”
It is the responsibility of the apostles (a messenger and ambassador for Jesus Christ) to extend His kingdom. They are to make disciples (students of the Word) of all the nations. We are called to be evangelist (teachers of the Gospel of Jesus to non-Christians). Christians (in my spiritual educations) must not only have an inward nurturing thrust with their fellow Christians. They must also have an outward missionary (missions are to share and proclaim the Gospel message) thrust to those around us that are non Christians.
Most New Testament evangelism took place during the week as believers came into contact with unbelievers. Church meetings were designed for the edification (the intellectual, moral, or spiritual improvement; enlightenment of believers), not the conversion of unbelievers (1Co 14:3, 5, 12, 17, 26). The church was designed for the strengthening its members not to draw new people in, as many non believers think. God draws you in through the members, not the structure..
So to me and the way I teach my students is that the Biblical model is to proclaim Christ to others as the Lord provides opportunity for our witness, which means in your day to day life we are to speak of our beliefs, not hide them from others.
Paul says, “Conduct yourselves with wisdom toward outsiders, making the most of the opportunity. Let your speech always be with grace, seasoned as it were, with salt, so that you may know how you should respond to each person” (Col 3:5-6).
Peter goes on to say, “…but sanctify Christ as Lord in your hearts, always being ready to make a defense to everyone who asks you to give an account for the hope that is in you, yet with gentleness and reverence” (1Pe 3:15).
Early church members were to respond to outsiders, and be always ready to make a defense to everyone who asks. The Word calls us to look for venues to present the gospel of Christ to those that don’t know Him.
As a Christian I am called to be praying and looking for opportunities to speak a word for Christ to those I interact with, like classmates, neighbors, work mates, relatives, customers or other acquaintances. Additionally I need to regularly seek to put myself in places where I can interact with non-Christians.
We teach the kids to open up themselves to meet people that are nonbelievers and show Christ through their actions and speech, not preach. We also teach them we should open our homes during the holidays and invite our neighbors in, showing Christ through these actions. To offer a hand up to those around us that are down, sharing His mercy with man kind. We are called to invite nonbelievers into our lives. Whether they choose to come to Christ through you or not, doesn't matter. Being a Christian isn't about the number of people you bring to Christ, He does that on His own, it is however about you being strong enough in your faith not to turn away when a person doesn't accept your faith.
My witness is my life, my testimony and my journey that I have been down and believe it or not... I have given my testimony of faith on this very board and M2M for the past 10 years. My post and my over coming my struggles are my messages of God's mercy in my life.
As for it being seperation of church and state. The First Amendment to the U.S. Constitution guarantees, among other things, our right to freedom of religion (the First Amendment also protects freedom of speech, assembly, the press, and the right to petition the government). Within the First Amendment, there is an establishment clause, which prevents the government from creating one official religion in the United States or from giving preference to one faith over another.
I posted before I was done.. just a few more things I promise..
The U.S. Supreme Court's state that our freedom of religion that we are complaining about also means that children who grow up in non-Christian homes should not be made to feel like outsiders in their own community's courthouse, legislature or public schoolhouse.
We live in a country filled with people who are sick and disabled, people who are imprisoned, and people who hunger and thirst for justice in their lives. It seems to me that Christians are the ones who are taking the Christ out of the season.
Nowhere in the Sermon on the Mount did Jesus Christ ask that we celebrate His birth with Christmas trees and Nativity Scenes, or for that matter narrow-mindedness and intolerance, especially for those who are already marginalized and persecuted. Instead, the New Testament—like the Torah and the Koran and countless other sacred texts—commands us to love our neighbor, and to comfort the sick and the imprisoned.
Christians shouldn't be focused on whether we aren't aloud to have a Nativity Scene in a class room or not. We should be about sharing and spreading the Good News of our salvation through our love and acceptance of all around us like and unlike minded people. This doesn't mean Preach, there is a time and a place for Preaching and to someone that is a non believer it just pushes them further away. God shows Himself through those that believe, in the ways He intends for others to see him, when we allow Him to do things through our lives.
Putting up things to honor Chanukah, Ramadan or Quanza will not give a child compassion towards people out side of their religion.
Compassion starts at home, acceptance and love are not created through reading it in a school book or knowing a kid that is Jewish. Knowing what a Manora stands for doesn't make the child feel the Jewish experience. Those things start at home, through discussions and education of all religions, all nationalities and difference that divide us in a time when division only serves the purpose of keep all people oppressed. You oppress me, I oppress you and who wins???
People no matter their beliefs until understood/accepted will be oppressed, sad to say that most oppression starts at home.. Calling a religion wrong, complaining in front of your child about the other religions complaining all the time, all those things people say and do teaches their children that others unlike them are flawed.. Not going to create a big love fest that way for sure.. Just more violence and misunderstanding. Kind of like the parent that swears like a sailor and tells their child not to cuss, it is a safe bet they will cuss, they may not do it in front of you but they will mimic you.
The Christian fight needs to be for acceptance and about accepting because that is what God calls us to do. He doesn't tell us in the Bible we must "Deck the Halls" in public... However, we can.. Deck our front yards and wear or Holiday Ugly Sweaters and we can share the fact that we are Christians to all of those that care to listen or feel the warmth of God's love through us, that is our Constitutional right  and no one can stop that, not even the ACLU.
It is not denying one's faith to be inclusive and welcoming. It is practicing one's faith. If I wish someone "happy holidays" because I am unsure of what they celebrate, I am wishing peace, goodwill and harmony. I am being a good Christian by being an example of charity. One can live one's faith, not hide it, but still accept that others have different faiths and wish them happy in their beliefs. I feel (and all may freely disagree) that it is unchrist-like to force my faith on others - or in a public place of business display only my faith or my belief when I know for a fact that I have clients who are of other faiths and beliefs and this will be inhospitable and make them uncomfortable.
No, I don't "hide my light", but I am circumspect in how I display it, and how I may make others feel. It is my opinion that when all is said and done, the only real mark we make is how we make people feel. I don't want to intentionally make anyone feel bad. I honestly believe that we do make others feel bad when we don't acknowledge what is important to them.
And I agree, so much of what we practice is what we learned as children. In my home tolerance and courtesy were of utmost importance. You never insulted a guest or made someone feel unwelcome. I firmly believe that that is what one does when they celebrate only one religious holiday in a public place, or a place frequented by the public. What one does on their own lawns or in their own homes is their own business.
If this has made anyone upset, it was not my intention. I just feel strongly that we have so many other things to argue about that holiday time should be something that brings people together, rather than highlighting what separates them. .
Ame
So well said, Ame.:-)
I find myself saying "Happy Holidays" in the general public. but I must say I am thrilled that I am having a CHRISTMAS party at my playroom and we are having a birthday cake for Jesus. Because I have stated clearly we are a Christian based business, I don't need to have someone upset by our party. Sometimes I do feel slighted at feeling "wrong" for wishing a Merry Christmas. I think I have as much right to express those words as others do with their holidays.
I had someone ask just the other day if I had religious stuff in my place. She was not wanting to expose her child to anything of faith because she is atheist. I wasn't sure what to do at that first moment. But I told her I had books and we sing and sometimes there are songs on videos or conversation just because it is who I am. She came by the playroom the other day. It was a very nice visit. She knew where we stood but also told me she enjoyed our place very much. It made me feel great that she had a good experience at our playroom knowing that she has such extreme beliefs different from me.
Here's another issue that goes along with it. I once worked at a company where one of my co-workers was Jewish. It was a small company, so we didn't get paid for holidays off. This man complained that he was losing a days pay because he couldn't go to work on Christmas because we were closed.
I didn't hear him complaining, tho, when the Christmas bonuses were being handed out.
I once worked for another doctor years ago who was a "hockey nut". When he wasn't practicing medicine, he was at a game or playing it. His waiting room and office looked like a sports memorabilia store or a hockey Hall of Fame, with autographed photos on the walls, a hockey helmet in a glass case in his office...you get the picture. To me, it seemed very unprofessional. As it happened, he was a very competent doctor. However, to a new patient, one might wonder how focused he was on medicine. And I am not a hockey fan, so to me, it was just tacky. Yet a hockey fan might find it enjoyable.
The fact remains that the doctor paid the rent, the bills and the salaries for the staff (including me). Far be it from anyone to say that he didn't have the right to do it. It represented HIM and who he was, besides being a physician. No one ever told him to take it all down and have a more professional looking office.
I know that it is a little different situation, comparing sports to religion, but it is also similar. I have gone into restaurants or stores where the owner has a picture of his/her family hanging up, or a favourite vacation spot. It made that establishment unique and represented the proprietor. Displays representing one religion over another fall into the same category, IMO.
And the bottom line is, whether the sign says "Merry Christmas", "Happy Hannukah", "Happy Kwaanza"...whatever...it is a greeting of goodwill to others. That is in short supply in our world today, I'm afraid.
I was just reading about our local Toys for Tots event held in our town annually. Here, the motorcycle groups collect gifts for the children and deliver them to a designated place where the kids can come and pick a toy. I had heard of this event, but this weekend I was running errands and for the first time I was able to see the motorcycles go through town, laden with gifts. I sat at the intersection awe struck by the number of participants. The paper said 1,200 members rode into town with gifts for the kids. The traffic light changed several times while we all sat at the intersection watching, but nobody seemed to mind. It was amazing. The paper showed some of the children leaving with brand new bikes, baby dolls, stuffed bears, everything imaginable. What a difference these people made for some of the families in our community! I really feel "goodwill" is very apparent in our society, especially this time of year. We may differ on our choice of words when wishing others "goodwill", but acts of kindness are everywhere.
I think your last statement says it all Nicki - the specific "words" don't matter at all when you're wishing someone goodwill, which is why people shouldn't get bent out of shape when they see/hear any of the particular wishes. (i.e., Meery Christmas, Happy Hannukah, Happy Holidays, Happy Kwanzaa, etc.)
VERY WELL PUT Bobbie ,and Hol,Deanna,Dana,Joelle. Y'all have said my feelings exactly. America was founded on the Christian belief.It was founded so that we could pray and worship God/Jesus , not any of the other religions! When the others came to America, they should have known that this is/was a Christian nation.If they want to worship whomever they choose, that's their business, but don't come here and try and change our nation beliefs ! And DON'T tell us that we can't worship Jesus, whether it be thru public prayer,celebrating Christmas as the birth of our savior,etc, because it OFFENDS THEM!! If it offends them, then go back to where you came from and live according to your own beliefs in your own country! I can just imagine someone going to China or Russia,etc, and telling THEM that they are offended by something that they do and demanding that they change things! Also, there was a husband and wife DR's office here( both of them were doctors)that was very straight forward about their belief in Jesus.They had very beautiful pictures pertaining to Jesus( healing the little children etc.)in every room of the office. On the paper work that you filled out, the questionaire, they had "as we are born again Christians, we believe very strongly in the power of prayer.Let us know if you would like for us to pray for you." Next line,"would you like to learn more about Jesus and how to be saved?" They NEVER pushed any of this on you,actually never even mentioned it unless you asked, but this was THEIR office , so they did as they pleased. And they were the MOST sought after doctors in town !!
The United States is not a "Christian" nation. We do not have a "national" belief. There is no "established" church or faith or belief in the United States. Our founding fathers made certain of that in the Constitution and the Bill of Rights.
America was NOT founded on the Christian belief. The first settlers in America were sponsored by investors in England and Spain, primarily, and also Holland and France, who intended to profit from the natural resources of this new land (after it was discovered that America was not really the Indies, already a source of trading wealth). The next major group of immigrants were people in England and other nations fleeing persecution from the religious majority in their birth countries, including people of all faiths - various forms of Protestantism, Quakers, Catholics, and Jews. Still other large groups of settlers were criminals who were transported to America as an alternative to imprisonment or hanging in England, and were sold as indentured servants. Another major group of settlers were people who contracted to be indentured servants for a specific period of time in exchange for having their transportation to American paid for by their "sponsor". Other groups of settlers were the Scots, fleeing Scotland after various battles over the succession to the English throne which resulted in major persecutions of the Scots, and people fleeing wars or enforced military service in the German areas, and so on. Finally, the American Revolution came about because England tried to impose taxes on Americans without representation in Parliament and imposed other laws on the people living in America (including taxes to the "established" church") and imposed harsh laws on Americans that Americans believed to be in contradiction with the rights of "free Englishmen".
The Constitution, which is the primary source of all laws governing the United States, makes no mention of religion except in the First Amendment, which states very clearly "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; .." and in Article VI, "...; but no religious Test shall ever be required as a Qualification to any Office or public Trust under the United States." Making no law "respecting an establishment of religion" was specifically put into the Bill of Rights because of the "established" church of England (the Anglican Church, to which all persons were required to pay a tax whether they attended or not), and the "established" churches of the countries which other people fled.
You can do what you want in your home. Employers can set whatever rules they want in the workplace, so long as those rules do not discriminate against the faith practices of employees (and they do not fall under some exceptions to those laws). Businesses can say Merry Christmas or Happy Hannukah or Happy Holidays, or not, as they wish, and there is no law governing such practices.
No one is telling you that you can't worship as you choose, including evangelizing in any setting where the people who control the setting will permit you to do so. You are, however, told that you cannot use public dollars, from taxes paid by everyone in this nation, to support a particular belief through teaching, school prayer, or public displays paid for by tax dollars. This "establishment of religion" is specifically forbidden in the First Amendment.
The general purpose of the first 10 Amendments to the Constitution (the Bill of Rights) is to protect minorities and those holding unpopular beliefs or positions from the tyranny of the majority. As part of that protection of the minority from the majority, that the majority of people living in the United States are Christian does not make the United States a "Christian nation".
If you want an example of the dangers of an "established" religion, or having a nation deem itself committed to one particular religion, you have only to look at the Arab nations, particular Sudan at present.
I personally would not turn to China or Russia for examples of how the United States should conduct itself in protecting the rights of all individuals, particularly the rights of the minority.
Did I miss something?
Hol's employer, although a Christian, chose not to use the words "Merry Christmas" in office decorations for fear of "offending" someone.
Amecmom commented that she might feel "left out" if her winter holiday wasn't mentioned along with Christmas. This was the closest any one here came to being "offended." And that didn't seem very close to me.
Next thing I know I'm reading that Christians are not allowed to worship as they please. That the religion claimed as their own by 70-85% of Americans is a minority. Some how this idea that there are tons of non-Christians just waiting to take offense is very threatening. But is it true? While people are understandably cautious about religious displays in government buildings, do we need to self-censor other places? For example, is any one here at Momsview actually "offended" by the words Merry Christmas? I'm truly curious.
Nice job, Ginny. Very concise, and accurately explained.
No, Mlee, I don't think you missed anything - except that I said more than one might feel "left out". What I hoped I got across is that I felt it was just rude and dismissive of others' celebrations and beliefs to just decorate for one holiday or specifically say Merry Christmas when you don't know what someone celebrates.
I am not offended by the phrase, "Merry Christmas" I like seeing it and hearing it - but I would never presume to say them to someone who I was not sure celebrated Christmas. Nor would I expect to see them in a professional or business space unless the business was clearly a Christian business that catered to Christians. Best to just use good form and wish happy holidays.
I do understand what the others are saying, however. They feel that their right is being infringed on and that a minority's right to express religious beliefs is more strongly defended by the PC police.
We had an instance here where a private party donated a beautiful creche to the town to display as part of the holiday celebrations. The town declined to take the gift. There was a lawsuit. It turned ugly.
This family clearly felt that their rights were being denied.
We've had issues about the display of the 10 Commandments in courthouses.
This is nothing new for our society and nothing we will ever solve here.
But, it is nice to be able to talk it out and understand the perspectives of others.
Ame
Holiday is an abbreviation of Holy Days. So go ahead and wish folks Happy Holidays!
Good point! You are absolutely correct, Debbie, and I'm embarrassed that I didn't remember that.
This is long, but it makes a point. Something to think about.
It's one of those e-mails that circulates every year. I got it about 2 weeks ago.
Dear Children,
It has come to my attention that many of you are upset that folks are taking My
name out of the season. Maybe you've forgotten that I wasn't actually born
during this time of the year and that it was some of your predecessors who
decided to celebrate My birthday on what was actually a time of pagan festival.
Although I do appreciate being remembered anytime.
How I personally feel about this celebration can probably be most easily
understood by those of you who have been blessed with children of your own.
I don't care what you call the day. If you want to celebrate My birth, just GET
ALONG AND LOVE ONE ANOTHER.
Now, having said that let Me go on. If it bothers you that the town in which you
live doesn't allow a scene depicting My birth, then just get rid of a couple of
Santa's and snowmen and put in a small Nativity scene on your own front lawn. If
all My followers did that there wouldn't be any need for such a scene on the
town square because there would be many of them all around town.
Stop worrying about the fact that people are Calling the tree a holiday tree,
instead of a Christmas tree. It was I who made all trees. You can
remember Me anytime you see any tree. Decorate a grape vine if you wish: I
actually spoke of that one in a teaching, explaining who I am in relation to you
and what each of our tasks were. If you have forgotten that one, look up John
15: 1 - 8.
If you want to give Me a present in remembrance Of My birth here is my wish
list. Choose something from it:
1. Instead of writing protest letters objecting to the way My birthday is being
celebrated, write letters of love and hope to Soldiers away from home. They are
terribly afraid and lonely this time of year. I know, they tell Me all the time.
2. Visit someone in a nursing home. You don't have to know them personally. They
just need to know that someone cares about them.
3. Instead of writing George complaining about the wording on the cards his
staff sent out this year, why don't you write and tell him that you'll be
praying for him and his family this year. Then follow up. It will be nice
hearing from you again.
4. Instead of giving your children a lot of gifts you can't afford and they
don't need, spend time with them. Tell them the story of My birth, and why I
came to live with you down here. Hold them in your arms and remind them that I
love them.
5. Pick someone that has hurt you in the past and forgive him or her.
6. Did you know that someone in your town will attempt to take their own life
this season because they feel so alone and hopeless? Since you don't
know who that person is, try giving everyone you meet a warm smile; it could
make the difference.
7. Instead of nit picking about what the retailer in your town calls the
holiday, be patient with the people who work there. Give them a warm smile and a
kind word. Even if they aren't allowed to wish you a "Merry Christmas" that
doesn't keep you from wishing them one. Then stop shopping there on Sunday. If
the store didn't make so much money on that day they'd close and let their
employees spend the day at home with their families
8. If you really want to make a difference, Support a missionary-- especially
one who takes My love and Good News to those who have never heard My name.
9. Here's a good one. There are individuals and whole families in your town who
not only will have no "Christmas" tree, but neither will they have any
presents to give or receive. If you don't know them, buy some food and a few
gifts and give them to the Salvation Army or some other charity which
believes in Me and they will make the delivery for you.
10. Finally, if you want to make a statement about your belief in and loyalty
to Me, then behave like a Christian. Don't do things in secret that
you wouldn't do in My presence. Let people know by your actions that you are one
of mine.
Don't forget; I am God and can take care of Myself. Just love Me and do what I
have told you to do. I'll take care of all the rest. Check out the list
above and get to work; time is short. I'll help you, but the ball is now in
your court. And do have a most blessed Christmas with all those whom you
love and remember : I LOVE YOU, JESUS
Letter from Jesus about Christmas --
Thank you for posting this, Debbie. It certainly reflects what I believe about Jesus and what he tried to teach us.
Everyone has been very articulate and respectful of others on this thread. I have learned many things from all posters.
Ginny, your posts are always well put and full of information that makes me think outside of my box.
Debbie, very nice post. It puts many things into the right perspective. What I didn't know was that Jesus was a tennis player?! LOL!
ROFL! When I read the tennis player thing, my reaction was "WHAT? Neither did I." So I had to reread thru the thing twice before I could see what you were talking about. Duh!!!! But Jesus was the life of the party. Everyone always invited Him. So why not play tennis, too.
I was referring to the phrase "the ball is now in your court" Too funny
LOL, Annie!
Great post, Debbie.
Debbie, that was GREAT! Thanks!
Ame
Someone mentioned something about a Christmas tree not being in the Bible. Then I came across this piece and wonder if this may be where the Christmas tree tradition began or how it's related to Christams?
ADVENT ACTIVITY
The Jesse Tree is another popular family tradition for celebrating Advent. This annual activity traces the ancestry of Jesus through the Old and New Testaments. The Jesse Tree is named for the father of King David. Its scriptural foundation is based on Isaiah 11:1, “A root shall sprout from the stump of Jesse and a branch shall grow out of its roots.” A Jesse Tree can be made of cardboard or can be a small artificial tree. The symbols that are placed on the tree represent the key figures in salvation history. For instance, the symbols might be an apple for Adam, an Ark for Noah, a sacrificial lamb for Abraham and Isaac, a ladder for Jacob, a Temple for Solomon, a stalk of wheat for Ruth, carpenter tools for Joseph, a crown of stars for Mary, and a pair of sandals for John the Baptist. The symbols are placed on the tree each day during Advent along with a corresponding scripture reading. By participating in the Jesse Tree activity adults and children learn about God’s plan of salvation step by step.
(This is from the Holy Name of Mary Catholic School's website. The school is located in San Dimas, California.)
Here's a link to what seems the likely history of the Christmas Tree: Christmas Tree
No, I don't think the "Jesse Tree" is the root of the Christmas Tree. I suspect, from various readings, that the Christmas Tree began in Germany and may well have its roots in pagan celebrations and symbolism around trees in Norse pagan history. There is a lot in the Gospels and other books in the New Testament and in Christian teaching generally which links or tries to link Jesus to Old Testament prophecies - including the Tree of Jesse, which is sort of interesting because (a) Joseph was of the house and lineage of David, not Mary, so I wonder sometimes how Jesus could be of the house of David; and, in Judaism, whether a child is born or not born a Jew depends on whether the mother is a Jew, not the father.
The Jesse tree has nothing to do with the Christmas tree. The Jesse tree represents Jesus' lineage and significant biblical events. We have done a Jesse tree for several years. In answer to your question(s) Ginny, Jesus is of the house of David because He had the name of His earthly father, Joseph, like any other son. However in Matthew 1 both Joseph and Mary are listed in Jesus' lineage. There are also 3 other women listed, Tamar, Rahab (a prostitute), and Ruth. This is huge because in biblical times women were basically property and didn't figure into family trees. The fact that the bible mentions 4 women, including Rahab, is very significant and radical.
From my understanding, the Christmas tree originally came from Druid practices, but was made a part of Christian Christmas traditions when Martin Luther introduced it. Not sure on that and don't have time to look it up right now, but I think that is correct.
I always thought the Christmas tree was from Germany, don't know why. There is alot of German ancestory in my family. When I was little we celebrated the feast of St. Nicholas in early December and we would get a small amount of candy in our stocking. I always thought this was a Catholic thing until a few years ago when my mother told me we did it out of a fun German tradition.
Martin Luther was from Germany
Rayelle, when I was younger my family celebrated St. Nicholas Day, too. We'd put our my dad's biggest socks and they would be filled with fruit, nuts and chocolate coins in the morning.:-)
Emily got crossword puzzle books and Sarah got crochet hoooks from St. Nick.
It's cool to hear of others doing the same. In school no one ever knew what I was talking about,lol!
Without reading *any* of the above, and I apologize, but it bugs me when people say, "I can't be proud of my religion!" It's not like that at all...just because you are Christian, doesn't mean that during the holiday season, you should feel the right to impose your religion on others when you don't even know them.
I am a Christian and I teach Connor that it's Jesus' birthday. It's something sort of "private" and it doesn't mean that I'm not proud, it just means that I'm observant of others' convictions in their own home. There's a certain amount of respect I have for other religions and faiths and I know I'm not going to "witness" to someone by saying "Merry Christmas" or by putting up stickers in that fashion. I'm going to witness to others and share my faith through acts of kindness, etc. Would Jesus want us to celebrate his birth by telling others "Merry Christmas"??? No...he'd want us to celebrate his birth by sharing the meaning of Christmas to our children and by treating others the way he did. It's one thing to share our religion to others, but it's another to be more proud than humble and lose its meaning altogether.
Yes, Rayelle, I remember not saying much at school about our tradition of celebrating St. Nicholas day. Part of it was because like you say, it wasn't something many knew about. I also didn't want my classmates to feel badly! I loved finding those socks full and when young, I really believed St. Nicholas himself came during the night.
In an effort to be PC, we are eliminating EVERYONE'S God from our public life.
Amen, sistah!
My honest opinion?? We, as a nation, have become SO concerned with being PC, that our traditions, etc. are changing because we're all afraid of the inevitable ****storm that will follow when we attempt to display/do the very things that have been part of our culture for decades. I, for one, resent the heck out of it.
Karen- SOOOO well said and right on. I completely agree!!!
What traditions, Karen? The one where all children, no matter their faith, were required to at least stand silently through Protestant Christian prayers and bible readings in public schools - and if their parents objected the children were subjected to harrassment? The tradition where businesses closed for Christian holidays but did not give non-Christian workers a paid day off on their religious holidays. Or perhaps the tradition where all stores were required to close on Sunday, whether the owner was Christian or not or legally barred from selling anything but certain necessities (the law in Pennsylvania when I moved here in the mid-60s)? Using tax dollars (from Christians and non-Christians) to pay for a Nativity Creche on publicly owned land? And adding in a Menorah and some Kwanza symbols only after legal pressure - what next? Will we be adding a minaret (the towers on mosques) to those displays so that we can keep the creche?
There are a lot of other traditions that we no longer support, but no one complains about them fading away. Like persons of color having to sit at the back of the bus or use separate drinking fountains or sit in the balcony of theaters and churches. Like women not being allowed in certain public businesses - bars, restaurants and clubs - without a male escort. Except for a few who are properly reviled, no one urges a return to those "traditions". I personally don't see much difference between those traditions (and I remind you that those who fought the changes in those traditions often used the Bible to support their beliefs), and the ones which are the focus of this thread. Fact is, as a society becomes more diverse, what was tradition changes. The alternative is to not be diverse, or to use the power of the majority to impose the majority's traditions and practices on everyone else. If you want to understand just how dangerous that can be, read the news from the Middle East.
I will stick to my original post. I resent the commercialization of a religious event. I think people who want businesses to assist in commemorating a religious event according to this or that group's traditions are, frankly, short-sighted. Business has changed the religious nature of Advent and Christmas to a stew of Rudolph and Baby Jesus, I Saw Mommy Kissing Santa Claus and Adeste Fidelis, and so on. The grinch's change of heart and Scrooge's ghosts are as important as the birth of Jesus, or so it seems from TV. Hannukah has become 8 days of gifts instead of remembering a miracle. Easter is the time to buy new, fancy clothes to show off in church.
I think we have allowed sentiment for the "good old days" to dumb down what faith really means. Debbie's post with the e-mail is, to my mind, much closer to what Christianity is or should be, at this time of year and all year. I will not and cannot believe that Jesus, who sat down with tax collectors (the political pariahs of his day), criticized the Pharisees (leaders of the Temple), laid hands on lepers, who ignored traditions and said "let him who is without sin cast the first stone", and "Render unto Caeser the things that are Caeser's, and unto God the things that are God's" cares one little bit about how we or businesses greet people during December. I earnestly believe he would much prefer that we spend our energies and emotions on much more important things - like taking care of the injured person by the side of the road, and all of the rest of the tasks we were instructed to do in his name.
I can not see your "boss" being able to afford to NOT stand up for yours & co-workers beliefs! We should thank GOD for all we are, and all we have.JESUS was the gift to the world! I would have left them up and told her she was wrong and we should show that we stand up for those words "MERRY CHRISTMAS!" If someone else has other beliefs that is their choice. Maybe your "boss" should shell out the extra cash and buy every religions holiday saying there is so she could be fare to everyone! I HATE WISHY WASHY PEOPLE! I feel you should stand up for your beliefs!
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