Why the heck would someone abort a baby because it has down syndrom. I'm totally not for this at all.

My brother and SIL are expecting. He is 47, she is 41. They have 3 kids ages 19,16 and 14. This was completely unplanned and a total surprise. The doctor is pushing them to have an amniocentises (sp) to check for DS. The DR said that if it is positive for DS that they will then discuss termination options. Like they will automatically want to abort. The DR is being rather pushy about getting the test done.

My SIL has already felt the baby move and they know it is a girl. There is no way they will abort the baby no matter what.

I guess different religions come into factor as well. Along with political views etc. But good heck.....the DR needs to chill out about my SIL. She's told the DR a dozen times that she doesnt' want the test done because they will keep the baby regardless. The doctor just won't let it go. It's almost like the DR is encouraging them to abort if there is a "problem".

That being said, my SIL has been taking extra precautions and extra rounds of blood work to test for other things that might be wrong w/the baby. That way if there is a complication that can be forseen, then the proper personel can be present at the birth.

By Feona on Thursday, May 15, 2003 - 06:43 pm:

Well I think you said it all. There is no reason for an invasive test because they are keeping the baby no matter what.

By Semperspencer on Thursday, May 15, 2003 - 07:45 pm:

I am totally against abortion myself, so what if the baby could have down syndrome? Once your SIL told the doctor that abortion was out of the question, he should stop right there with the suggestions. If it were me, I would want the amniocentises done so that I could know for sure and then do research, study, etc if the baby did have down syndrome. However if they do not want the test done, that is their right, and the doctor should accept that. Have they considered switching doctors???

By Ginnyk on Thursday, May 15, 2003 - 07:58 pm:

First, I would change doctors, since this doc appears to not listen. I would hate to have a doctor who won't listen deliver my baby.

Second, Downs Syndrome comes in all levels, and while I don't have personal experience, I have read of many familys with DS children who feel that child is the star of their lives. I do remember a TV show many years ago with a DS son in the family played by a young man who actually had DS, and always admired the young man and the show.

As for whether to have amniocentesis and whether to make a choice about abortion, it is a choice, and your SIL and brother have made theirs. I repeat, I would be looking to change doctors at this point - maybe first saying bluntly to the doctor - we will not do this and we insist you stop talking about it or we will change doctors. No matter what the doctor's personal opinion, it is not his choice to make and he should shut up after having been told.

Not to suggest there is anything wrong with the baby, I did a quick google check, and although the odds are significantly greater given your SIL's age, we are still talking about 1 chance in 85 age age 41, or, in other words, 84 chances of the baby not having DS. The odds are greatly in favor of not having a DS baby.

As for raising a child with problems, my cousin, my aunt's younger son, was hydrocephalic and for all of his life had the mentality of an 8 year old. He was a very happy person, lived with his parents until he was about 40 when, for many reasons, it was decided to place him in a residential setting. He lived there for another 10 years very happily, working in a structured workshop, until he died of pneumonia following a broken hip. My memories are that he was a delightful person and very happy, and my aunt and uncle were very happy with him.

By Bubbels on Friday, May 16, 2003 - 12:25 am:

I should point out that there are risks involved in just having the amniocentesis. I believe there is a 10% chance of spontaneous abortion from the procedure.

By Semperspencer on Friday, May 16, 2003 - 01:45 am:

good point mom

By Kaye on Friday, May 16, 2003 - 08:37 am:

I think there are several issues here. First aborting a non perfect fetus. As strongly as I am against this, this is a personal decision and no one but your SIL can really make that decision. Second, the doctor! I agree with Ginny, I would switch. Once you lose faith in your doctor, you are wasting everyones time sticking around. If there is a some problem at delivery, do you feel he would follow their wishes and desires? Would he do anything to save any child? I would drop him like a hot potato. Now for amnio. Why perform one? DS can be so different, some children are basically born fine, some different facial characteristics is the only way to know post delivery. However some children are born with out rectums, with insides that are outside of their body, they can have very serious medical complications that only a specialist can handle. There are blood tests that can determine if a neorological defect might be present. It is called an alpha fetal protein test. I would certainly do this blood work (at your sis's age) and then if those test came back high, then do an amnio. I would never abort a special needs child, but any moments of lost oxygen at birth can be devestating to any child, but more so to a special needs child. If my chances were high then I would want to have all the knowledge I could have and all the experience in the room that I could. But an amnio would never be a first test run, there are risks. But when other test indicate something might be off, the risks can be worth the benefits.

By Palmbchprincess on Friday, May 16, 2003 - 04:49 pm:

I am pro-choice, and think that if the baby was non viable, the mother should have the option to abort. DS is not a life threatening disease, to my knowledge, and I think that it is awful for any doctor to push or even suggest aborting a DS baby. I personally would carry and love the child no matter what, because that is my child, and no child is perfect. On the other hand if I were put in a situation where I was told the baby would not survive outside of the womb, and I have seen and read about cases like that, I would consider aborting. That's just my personal opinion. I agree that she should RUN from this doctor, who obviously has issues with the oath he took.

By 6littledarlings on Tuesday, March 9, 2004 - 01:04 pm:

Hi, I wanted to share my story a little bit, I am a mother of 6. During the pregnancy of our fourth child, a girl, Bethany we were told at 7 months of pregnancy that she had DS, we were sent to gentic specialists to confirm that she did indeed have it. And I was told that I was a genetic carrier, I had miscariages between every pregnancy and they assumed that my body aborted these babies because of have a severe ds baby.We were told that she would probably die at birth. Any way, they tried there best to get my husband and I to abort, We refused, We knew that if God wanted us to have this baby then it was meant to be and we would handle what he brought us(with his help) The doctor kept on after us to abort, nearing on harrassment so we went back to our regular doctor and prayed alot.
When she was born she was perfect! Not a thing wrong with her. She is now 7 and the only problems she has had has been with severe kidney stones, cystine stones. But she did not have DS
Becasue we went thru all of that we were prepared for a DS baby or no baby at all :-(
We recently adopted 2 DS babies and what a blessing they have been to us all!
I believe we went thru that so we could reach out to others. I will pray for your sister in law and her family. I know either way that child will be a sure blessing!

By Fionadeassis on Tuesday, March 9, 2004 - 09:28 pm:

6littledarlings...I just went into your profile... I laughed and almost cried when I saw the picture...your little babies are SO cute!!(the older ones are lovely too!).....

We have a 57 year old woman with down syndrome living with us. She is so awesome! Her family gave her up when she was 7 and she spent 25 years in an institution.......she has had a very sad life-but she is so happy and funny....most of the time. Sometimes she cries for her brother who maybe phones her once a year....'sniff'...

fiona(who would never abort a downsyndrome baby)

By 6littledarlings on Tuesday, March 9, 2004 - 09:59 pm:

Fiona,
That is so sweet that you are taking care of her! I am so fasinated now when I see older people with DS <Makes me wonder what my children will be like when they are older. I see them learning so much each day, it amazes me!
That is so sad to be given up at 7, Savannah's (our ds daughter )birth parents were going to put her in an institution over seas where they live. I am so glad they didn't I was so scared for her.

By Ladypeacek on Wednesday, March 10, 2004 - 01:51 am:

Well i think that aborting the baby is also wrong, i would keep my baby with DS because DS children can live full and happy lives just like everyone else can. I don't believe in abortion except in dire circumstances. But i think i still may think about the amnio just becuase if my baby were DS or anything else i would like the chance to be prepared for that so that i can make absolute sure i can take the best care as possible.

By Carolk on Wednesday, March 10, 2004 - 08:40 am:

I'm not really debating so much as offering my experience. When I was pregnant with my DD, she's 10 months old now, there was a test you could do to see if the baby had down's syndrome(I forgot the name of it). Anyway, my DR asked me first off, if I would ever consider terminating the pregnancy and I said no that I would not terminate. Therefore, he told me to not take test, unless I want to be able to prepare myself for the possibiltiy of a down syndrome baby. He also told me that a lot of the results are false positives and you can spend the last 4-5months of your pregnancy worried for no reason.

This actually happened to my friend. She was 35 when she had her last child. Her doctor told her to have the test and I think it came back 50/50 and she spent the last 4 months of her pregnancy worried and stressed and she had a perfectly healthy child.

I do agree with Ginny, that she should switch doctors. Especially if the doctor won't listen to her and keeps bringing it up. If he just is wanting them to be prepared he should say so. But since he's not saying that I would put my foot down and say respect my wishes that I don't want the test, or I'll find another doctor who will.

By Jackie on Wednesday, March 10, 2004 - 08:54 am:

I may be facing this problem. NOT aborting a baby though, the fact of having a baby with something wrong. I know nothing for sure. Iam 39 yrs old and 16 weeks pregnant. I go for a triple screen bloodtest today and a level 2 ultrasound with the genetics counselor/dr on Tuesday. It scares me to death to read statistics on how mothers after the age of 35 can "have" all these things wrong with their babies.I know there is ALOT of False positive with these bloodtests. My OB wants me to have the triple screen as my age is a big factor. Also I have had 4 miscarriages, and thinks the genetic counselor will give me a bigger picture of what could happen. I hope and pray my baby is healthy, but will NOT about because its not perfect.

By Bobbie on Wednesday, March 10, 2004 - 09:00 am:

I have a friend that had an ultra sound. The DR swore the baby was DS. They then had an amnio done and it came out that the baby was DS. That child is now 14 years old and doesn't not have DS. If they had listened to the DR they would have aborted her because that was his suggestion. But they didn't care. She was theirs DS or not. Medicine is not 100% all the time, some times you just have to play the cards you are dealt and keep the faith that you will have the strength to do everything you have to do.

I went to school with two young men with DS. They were main streamed in school and graduated with my class one was 21 and the other was 23 at graduation. They both went on to live in a very nice assisted living apartment complex. And they both hold down jobs. The town I live in now and the town I graduated from both have a factory that employ the disabled. And one of them married a DS young lady (She has had a tubal so they will not be having children) but they are so happy together. Basically... DS is not the end of the world. With love and support they can have a very fulfilling life. And just like with anything else DS has different levels of effect. There are DS people that are fully functional and others that need full care.

By Marcia on Wednesday, March 10, 2004 - 08:38 pm:

Just a FYI - everyone is told that as you get older, the chances of having a child with Down Syndrome is higher. I have been working with kids with special needs for many, many ears, including many kids with DS. Most of the moms were in their young 20s, and these were their first kids.
I refused the AFP test, because the results didn't matter to me. I've known people who have had false positives, and who have been freaked out for months. I don't think it's worth the stress. The amnio also has the chance of causing problems, which again, to me, aren't worth the risk.
Your doctor would hear an earful from me!!

By Brandy on Sunday, March 14, 2004 - 07:41 am:

I was offered an amnioscentesis (sp) with i think Alexander and i said no way no how if there is soemthing wrong with him i will love him and keep him no matter what.It wasn't worth the thought of a spontaneous abortion to me.

By Dawnk777 on Sunday, March 14, 2004 - 06:29 pm:

I had my babies at 29 and 32. I had the AFP test with the first one because it didn't occur to me to refuse it and I think I said the heck with it the second time because the results really didn't matter. No amniocentesis offered or refused either time.

By Momaroze on Wednesday, April 14, 2004 - 11:09 am:

I believe in Pro-choice. No one should tell another what she should do with her own body/life. I would not abort a ds baby, but that is my choice. I believe in counselling that person if she/desires an abortion so she is fully aware of what will happen and possible consequences . I don't judge anyone for what they do. I believe in the walk a mile in my shoes...

By Amecmom on Wednesday, April 14, 2004 - 05:01 pm:

I also refused the triple screen - even though it's become more accurate. Whatever will be will be.
I give your SIL- and all the moms who listened to their hearts a lot of credit. If they'd listened to their doctors it sounds like there would be fewer healthy, perfect (meaning wonderful - not physically) children.
Ame

By Cheekymama on Sunday, May 2, 2004 - 03:38 am:

Actually, DS can be life-threatening depending on the severity of it and some of the physical problems directly related to it. The majority of people with DS have a shorter lifepan and die younger than the general "healthy" population.

The whole problem with aborting because of DS is there IS no way to guage the severity until the child is born and monitored for a while. And there are many, many people with DS who are high-functioning, contributing members of society. I have one nephew with DS and while it's not horribly severe, it's definitely not a mild case, either. He's a real handful, I can tell you that. Actually, his behavior reminds me of severe autism. I also have a cousin with DS. It's a milder case than my nephew's. We love them both to death. However, I'm going to say the parents should make that decision and I'm not about to judge them for it if they choose to abort.

By Tink on Monday, May 3, 2004 - 12:40 am:

I am so glad that I didn't know about my son's autism before he was born. I am against abortion for the most part and wouldn't have chosen it for myself, but I would have had a lot of additional emotional stress and that is the last thing you need when you are pregnant. My youngest dd was diagnosed with possible hydrocephalus while I was pregnant. I had so many sonograms and specialists looking at her and it was all unnecessary. She was born with no problems but I was a wreck for the final trimester of my pregnancy. One of the specialists said that if they had found it earlier they probably would have strongly suggested that I abort! She is the light of my life and is also even more special because I was worried about the chance of her also having autism. I am so appalled at how the human life is taken for granted and how often doctors forget about their own humaness and the errors that go along with that.

By Ginny~moderator on Saturday, July 22, 2006 - 08:54 pm:

Thread spammed 7/22/06

By Karen~admin on Sunday, July 30, 2006 - 10:23 am:

And again 07-30-06