Mine collapse
Moms View Message Board: The Kitchen Table (Debating Board): Mine collapse
So what do you think about the resuce/recovery choices in this?
I guess what I am reading tonight is they have drilled the 6th hole and didn't find anything good and pretty much are calling it a grave now. The families are very unhappy with this, they are still holding out hope for their loved ones to be alive and want closure.
So what do you think they should do?
As bad as I feel for the families of the trapped men, I do think they should close it. Three additional men have already died trying to rescue them, and others have been injured. This tragedy could turn into a catastrophe if they keep trying, with the death toll just rising. I doubt they are alive at this point anyway.  If the families want bodies to bury for closure, that I don't understand. That's just not worth endangering other rescuers for.
Ditto Kate, for the most part. However, I DO understand the families wanting the bodies of their loved ones to bury. Many people feel they need that for closure - having the body makes it *real*. But - I don't see any possible way those men could still be alive, and you have to draw a line somewhere. How many more lives will be lost in the recovery effort, if they are to continue trying to locate them? It's a tough call.
I can understand how the victim's families may feel that there wasn't enough done to get to the men, but they are thinking with their hearts, not their heads. And they surely aren't thinking of the full scope of the situation/operations - they are grieving, hurt, angry, frustrated - finding their family member is ALL they are thinking about. They aren't thinking about the logistics and dangers involved each time another hole is drilled, and the number of people involved in that, and the possibility/probability of danger/death for them.
It's a very sad situation, and it happens in that particular industry, it's a risk they take. I don't mean that to sound cold, but it's a fact.
I can't promise I'd feel this way if *I* had a family member trapped down there, but I don't think they should continue trying to find them.
Precedent Set for Miners Surviving Long Rescues
August 12th, 2007 @ 9:41pm
Tonya Papanikolas Reporting
Many are starting to wonder if the six trapped miners could survive this long underground. We did some research and found at least 11 instances of miners being trapped eight days or longer.
In May of last year, two Australian miners trapped a half-mile underground were rescued after 14 days. Rescue teams were able to deliver food and water to the men before getting them out.
The year before, a gypsum miner was rescued in China after 11 days. Around the world, similar stories prevail.
In 1972, two men in Idaho were found in good condition after eight days trapped in a silver mine. Three miners also survived eight days in a flooded China mine. And in 2002, China coal miners survived underground on tree bark and muddy water for eight days.
In 1958 a bump shook a coal mine in Nova Scotia. The last group of survivors was pulled out after nine days. In West Virginia, six workers were freed 10 days after water flooded a coal mine in the 60s.
In South Korea in 1982, it took 14 days to rescue coal miners trapped 800 feet underground. Years earlier, a miner in that country survived 15 days underground. That's the same time it took rescuers to find two miners trapped in a collapsed mine in China in 2005.
But the longest successful mine rescue came in 1983. After 23 long days, two trapped Chinese miners were freed.
Most of the time in these cases, rescuers had made some kind of initial contact with the workers, but not always. In one instance, rescuers had found nothing until the 15th day, when they were rummaging through rubble, heard a faint voice and found two men.
http://www.ksl.com/index.php?nid=148&sid=1628546
me again...it is stories like this that make me go well...I mean these men are trained for this, they do have supplies, etc. I think I would just have a hard time wondering if my husband somehow survived, but basically we were just going to let him stay buried alive.
I think they should stop digging, they are risking more lives by doing so. Honestly, I think the mine owners gave the families false hopes, and the stories like the one posted above do the same. Look how RARELY miners are found alive after 12 days. There was no reason to think they survived in this case, no viable air, no signs of life. The mine is shaking, three rescuers already died looking for these men. It's a horrible tragedy, and I would be devastated if it was my loved one, but in all rescues you have to weigh the possible cost of lives by continuing, firemen going into a fire, medical techs in a major catastrophe, etc.
Intellectually I think they should stop, but emotionally ... I don't know. I don't think more lives should be risked, but it is human nature to risk lives trying to rescue someone who might still be alive.
From what I've read and heard, it is totally unsafe to continue digging, which is why they have stopped, and right now they are even having problems in trying to drill another hole from the side of the mountain - a hole that would only be big enough to put some kind of detector down. Also, from what I've read and heard, that mine owner has a lot to answer for. It appears that that particular mine had been cited several times for unsafe conditions, and the mine owner had citations for other mines also. Mining is such a dangerous job at best, but for mine owners to skimp on safety is totally inexcusable and, imo, should be held to be criminal. As it is, he'll probably get off with some fines that won't make even a minor dent in his profits.
Not to totally change the subject, but if a mine is sited for unsafe conditions, why is it even open? Why aren't they shut down until the problems are fixed?
That, Vicki, is the $6 Million Dollar Question.
Dh's Grandfather was killed in a coal mine explosion in Ostego, Wyoming county, West Virginia, on November 6th, 1939. According to the family records, there was an explosion in the room he worked in, he and three other men were killed and hundreds of men were trapped in the mine. He was 38 years old when he died. He left behind a 28 year old widow and four children, a 9 year old son, my FIL and his twin sister were 4 years old and 1 year and 5 months old daughter.
I just did a search and found his death certificate..
After hearing the stories that DH's Grandma shared with them as children, it had to be hard to let him go.. She said she was in shock to the point that she couldn't cry.. He had left the house at 7 and was dead by 9:45, she had never worked outside of the house and her world was gone. She died in 1985 and had never remarried.
For the families, I can see their need to have closure, to know for sure.. However, three more lives have been lost and how many more will die?
I believe I heard to day, that they will be drilling a 7th hole.. Prayers for the drillers/miners and prayers that the families will be able to find closure...
So terribly sad. I have had a feeling all along that those men died early on. There were earth tremors or "mountain bumps", as they are called, and I think that they were buried alive. If not, the lack of drinking water probably took them. I pray not because dying of dehydration is HORRIBLE.
I have been praying for the families. It IS so hard without closure. It makes it seem surreal for them. As Bobbie said, they go off to work and all of a sudden, they are gone for good. Three of the miners were from Mexico, and I'm sure, to their families especially, they seem terribly far away.
I think that the recovery efforts (it is no longer "rescue", but "recovery") should be suspended to avoid further loss of life and injury. Also, those poor families of the men who died trying to rescue them. It's almost like the mountain has some sort of malevolent aspect to it.
Bobbie, did your DH's Grandma ever get to bury him?
Yes, they got his body out.. He died from burns and asphyxiation. Like I said there were hundreds of men trapped, so they went in after them.. I don't have any information on how long it took to get them out, Dh's memory of her stories is that his grandma was in a state of shock for several months after the death and her mother came up from North Carolina to take care of her and the kids. So other then the fact he had died, I am not sure she carried much of a memory of that time frame with her.. The memory can be kind in that way, sometimes...
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