I am deeply saddened by the young teenager who lost her life today. She had a heart/lung transplant a few days ago which were not her match. A human error. Then she had another transplant from a donor which matched her blood type. However, it was far too late for her brain. She was diagnoised with severe brain damage. Her life was medically terminated.
I feel for her as a person, I am saddened by her loss hopes and dreams, her family's lost hope, wishes. etc.
Here is my debate:
I just read in my paper that she/family was smuggled in the US from Mexico.
The hospital stated " immigration status played no role because hospitals may place non-US citizens on their waiting lists. They are given the same status as US citizens."
I have also read this at ABCNews.com.
That makes me mad. Goodness knows how much that tab will be. Two tranplants, numerous hospital stays, medications, tests, etc.....
My daughter broke her arm a year ago, I am still paying for the $6,000. tab. ( She was in the OR for ten minutes to have her arm set, the tab for that was $2000. $200 a minute?!)
Yes, I have crappy insurance because DH is self-employed. We pay $350. a month for the bare minimum.
Here is my question: Should illegal immigrants be allowed to have medical care? Should illegal immigrants be allowed to have organ transplants?

By Familyman on Saturday, February 22, 2003 - 09:57 pm:

Yes, absolutely.

By Jann on Saturday, February 22, 2003 - 10:00 pm:

Why Familyman?

By Palmbchprincess on Sunday, February 23, 2003 - 03:47 am:

Annie,
One thing you didn't mention is that non-citizens can only receive 10% of the organ transplants each year. That way Americans are still taken care of. With the major organ shortage in our country, I'm not sure how I feel, but then again everyone has the right to life. That's why everyone should sign their license and tell their loved ones that they want to be organ donors. And I do feel we should be focusing on affordable health care for our own citizens before giving away health care for aliens. This is a messy topic, and I have very mixed feelings on it.

By Familyman on Sunday, February 23, 2003 - 08:01 am:

Because to deny anybody health care especially emergency health care on the basis of something like citizinship is just wrong. At that point you're starting to make judgement calls about the people in question, that's not what you're supposed to do as a doctor, you're supposed to make people better. We've decided in this country to take care of you now and worry about payment, either public assistance or insurance or billing you for the next 50 years. (That's another debate) I really don't want to see emergency room personel turning away people because they 'think' they aren't citizens. I don't want them to shove dying people out the door to die in the street because they don't meet any sort of criteria. I don't want anybody denied care because of race or sex or citizenship or any prejedice of anybody. If there is a problem with immigration when someone is in the hospital then someone can certainly report it and then it's up to the INS to worry about it. Let doctors be doctors, let the INS be the INS.

By Feona on Sunday, February 23, 2003 - 08:27 am:

I don't think the hospital makes reports to INS because then they would deter people from coming to the hospital. What if someone had Small Pox and didn't come to the hospital because they were afraid of deportation? Then the entire city would be in danger.

By Kaye on Sunday, February 23, 2003 - 09:08 am:

I think it is interesting that we have a waiting list with illegal immigrants on it. I mean wouldn't you think that throught the govt cross referencing someone would check out these stories. Now I was under the belief that this girl in particular was brought here specifially for medical care, so maybe not illegally, but temporarilly. How do I feel about that? On one hand we have americans who need these organs, part of me feels like we should take care of our own first. But on the other hand, we have the best medical system in the world, the finest doctors etc. If I knew that Texas had the best of the best and I lived in another state, wouldn't I try to get my butt there, even if it was temporary? What if each state that had organs had to give to their residence first? I grew up in Texas and the texas pride there is unlike many other states. I can tell you that people there probably do feel like the Texan organs should treat texans first. Is this right? Is this fair? I guess it really depends which side of the need you are in. As far as cost, a lot of people get "donated" care, I think it bites that a doctor would do that for a non citizen when we have really really poor families without insurance and they do not get that option. Not to mention I get to pay 50 bucks for a bandaid if I go to the Er. So where do I stand...hmm don't know, but it is an interesing question.

By Trina on Sunday, February 23, 2003 - 11:16 am:

I agree with Familyman.

For the record: non US citizen does NOT equal illegal alien. There is a BIG difference between legal and illegal aliens.

By Trina on Sunday, February 23, 2003 - 11:51 am:

Oops, that should say...

For the record: non US citizen does NOT always equal illegal alien. There is a BIG difference between legal and illegal aliens.

By Jann on Sunday, February 23, 2003 - 12:32 pm:

Familyman, many ER's turn away people without health insurance all the time, referring them to county hospitals instead, many times wasting valuable minutes.
Crystal, I so agree with you about signing your license!

By Palmbchprincess on Sunday, February 23, 2003 - 12:33 pm:

Very good points by all, especially Seth and Trina. One question I have is what will happen to the family?~ Will they be deported since the whole world knows they were smuggled in? Will they be able to take legal action against the hospital if they choose? I wonder if the media will drop this story now that the girl has passed, and not follow up on her family.

By Marcia on Sunday, February 23, 2003 - 01:11 pm:

I agree with family man. A person is a person, no matter what. I'm glad that I live in a country where it would not be an issue. People come here, all the time, for medical care. And I'm glad that I don't have to pay $2000 for an arm to be set. WOW!!

By Familyman on Sunday, February 23, 2003 - 06:32 pm:

Jann, I know the hospitals turn away people without health insurance. I think that is wrong too but that's a whole different conversation.

By Annie2 on Sunday, February 23, 2003 - 08:42 pm:

I also read in my newspaper today that the patient's family denied donating any of her organs. I wonder why?

By Familyman on Sunday, February 23, 2003 - 09:57 pm:

Yea, that really bugged me. I understand that some people have religous objections to it, but if that's the case what are you doing getting them from other people?

By Jewlz on Sunday, February 23, 2003 - 10:16 pm:

im wondering would she be able to donate any of her organs cuz of all the meds she has been on since the operation ... dont u have to go on really strong meds and the rejection of the first set wouldnt that have messed up the new ones since that is what she died of compincation from the first set of organs ?

By Sunny on Sunday, February 23, 2003 - 10:22 pm:

Because an autopsy is being performed on the girl, her organs can't be donated.

By Ginnyk on Monday, February 24, 2003 - 12:06 am:

Even if an autopsy were not being performed, I agree with Jewlz that the medications she was on, many of which were directed to the immune system, and the possible effects of her medical struggle, would probably make her organs not acceptable. And, though I don't agree with them, some people do have religious or strong personal objections to organ donation.

By Familyman on Monday, February 24, 2003 - 07:55 am:

I knew they probably wouldn't be able to use any of her organs but the way the news was reporting it sounded like the family didn't want to donate any organs. I know I shouldn't believe the news but that's what it sounded like. I would have rather heard that the family wished to donate her organs but they weren't suitable. Would have made me feel all warm and fuzzy inside.

By Jewlz on Monday, February 24, 2003 - 10:24 am:

also thinking that maybe after this whole ordeal being so close together a matter of days that they werent able to allow this to happen again to thier daughter ...to be cut up and seperated again ...just a thought ..tho iknow she is being autopsied ... but in thier minds maybe just a bit to soon ...

By Marymary on Monday, February 24, 2003 - 04:11 pm:

As a Canadian I have to pay an enormous fee to come and visit in your country because I can't take the chance that I break my arm or if I am in a car accident etc. I don't know why you should feel compelled to offer free health services to those South of the border....I don't know I do understand that many are from very dire straits, but I'm not a wealthy person by any means, and I don't expect anyone to pay for me.....our premiums have gone up, especially for those "snow birds" that choose to spend the winter in FL, AZ, TX or any of your warm states, and I feel that for that convenience and enjoyment a person should have to pay for it...but then again I am from a country where we don't presently pay for health coverage, that's why we're taxed for everything, we have 15% tax on almost everything you buy, if you buy a car, you pay the tax, if you sell the car 4 years later, the guy buying it pays another tax based on the value as set by the government...we have over 21% tax on our gasoline, the only thing not taxed is groceries (actual groceries, not things like pop, chips) and childrens clothes under a certain size...but I can still see where in the future we will have to pay a user fee for visitng a emergency room...and I don't mind....I consider my fellow countrymen/women and myself very fortunate.....wow I can't imagine paying $300 USD/month for health coverage....yikes!!

By Bea on Tuesday, February 25, 2003 - 12:28 am:

What upset me about this case, was the fact that the hospital wasted that second heart and lungs on a person who had serious brain damage. I truly believe they did this to mitigate their liability in the bungled first transplant. These were organs which could have saved two or more people. That is the crime here. I'm sure that the ambulance chasers will convince the family of this charity patient, who entered the country illegally, to sue. I'm also sure that the hospital will offset this by raising the rates for paying patients. What a sad and horrifying state of affairs!

By Colette on Tuesday, February 25, 2003 - 08:47 am:

I agree Bea, I also feel bad for the families of the donors.

As far as someone entering the country illegally to get put on the transplant list, no I don't think it's ok. Yes, I feel bad for them but they shouldnt be able to bump someone who came here legally for the transplant or a US citizen.

By Hol on Tuesday, July 4, 2006 - 01:26 pm:

That's a very hard question. I agree that life is life, and it's not up to us to decide who should live or die. If it were my child, I'd go to any extreme to save their life. However, there are the issues of the waiting list for organs, the cost, etc..
There should be absolutely no way, tho, that the family can sue. I would hope that that would be thrown out of court. It is a very sad situation that the surgery was bungled, and she died. And, that TWO sets of organs were wasted.
There was a controversy here a few years ago about a convict, doing life for murder, who got an organ transplant. Again, some would argue that he had no "right" to a transplant, either.
It's one of those many controversial issues (like end of life issues, abortion, and stem cell research) that make me glad that I am not a court judge.

By Hol on Tuesday, July 4, 2006 - 01:39 pm:

On this Independence Day, we need to remember that that's what makes our country (and Canada) such wonderful places to live, and why everyone wants to come here. We are compassionate. A society is judged by it's reverence for life.

By Crystal915 on Tuesday, July 4, 2006 - 05:14 pm:

I don't think they should be eligible. We have such a great need for organ donations as is, and we do plenty of high-risk surgeries (like separating conjoined twins, etc) for citizens of other countries, simply because we have the capabilities. We CANNOT save everyone in the world, and we're letting our countrymen die to help those who are here illegally. Yes, a life is a life, but the sad reality is you CANNOT save everyone. Hol mentioned stem cell research, we want to ban stem cell research in this country, which has the possibility to help millions of people, yet we are ok with giving criminals organs that law-abiding people (notice I didn't say citizens, if they are here legally I have no problem with it) need.

By Luvn29 on Tuesday, July 4, 2006 - 06:46 pm:

Crystal, wow, for once, I am going to be able to say I COMPLETELY AGREE!!!

By Unschoolmom on Wednesday, July 5, 2006 - 05:26 am:

Illeagal immgrant is a political title and a statement of non-citizenship. It doesn't make a person less human or their life less valuable.

By Luvn29 on Wednesday, July 5, 2006 - 11:14 am:

No, it doesn't. But here's what bothers me. Citizens of this country who pay taxes, pay in social security, etc. cannot even be placed on the donor list if their insurance won't pay it all, and if they don't have the extreme amount of money up front to "pay down" on the organ transplant surgery. Their lives are no less valuable either.

So how do these people who do not even live in our country, do not have medical insurance, and are not even here legally, get on this list? I'm not saying that anyone's life is more valuable than the other. But I do think it's time this country start putting its own people first and foremost when it comes to things such as this, and take care of its own.

I know that if my child had been on the list for months, and wasn't going to make it much longer, and I found out that someone coming over from Mexico (or any other country) specifically for this got the same organ that my child was waiting for that could save his/her life, I would be livid. Who wouldn't be?

I feel for these other families. Honestly I do. But what about the families here losing their loved ones. Who is going to feel sorry for them?