I couldn't sleep last night so I was watching this show about the Duggars, a family of 16 children! OOOOOOOOOOOOMMMMMMMMMMMMMGGGGGGGGGGGG!!!! I don't know how they do it. I saw their show a couple years ago when they had their 15th baby. Anyway, they had been building this huge house for three years themselves and all the kids had to help; in fact they even said that anyone 8yo & over had their own drill. And each older child was assigned a younger child to care for and each child was assigned a "jurisdiction", which is what the parents call the chore assigned to each child. (ex. one kid has the job of keeping the pantry organized.) Also, mom is only 39yo! I could go on & on, but anyway, God Bless them. I'm glad it wasn't me. Oh, and at the end, the father mentioned a 17th child and the mother just laughed! Did anyone see this show?

By Tonya on Tuesday, March 14, 2006 - 09:14 am:

I saw this when she was expecting her 15th and now they have more that is crazy. They had 4-5 kids per room.

I saw they were in the process of building the bigger home but still.

I can understand having a large family but I am sorry that is too many kids. How do they ever get any special attention. And how can they afford it themselves. They have to get help from the state they are in for somethings and I don't think that is right.

By Andi on Tuesday, March 14, 2006 - 09:18 am:

I saw it once when they were building a house together. I feel that is way to many children for one family. It bothers me when older children take on the roll of a Mom or Dad, let kids be kids.

My goodness, how many children can a woman physically have?

By Tonya on Tuesday, March 14, 2006 - 09:31 am:

They have a website if you google Duggar Family it will take you there. I was just there reading and each of the older children have 1-2 buddies they have to help get through the day with all school work and hygine and 2 of the daughters do lunch and dinner. They are on a time schedule daily.

No where on there did it say paly with friends or go outside and run. Free time is when they get to finish the studies they hadn't finished earlier in the day.

By Vicki on Tuesday, March 14, 2006 - 09:36 am:

I also feel that when you have children that are expected to take care of younger children on a day to day basis that it crosses the line. If you can't care for as many kids as you have, it is time to think about being done with your family. I have seen the shows also and while I feel that they seem to have a "system" down so that the family can function, there didn't seem to be any time at all for the kids to be kids and enjoy a life of their own.

By Happynerdmom on Tuesday, March 14, 2006 - 09:47 am:

I don't know. I saw this last night, and it seems like a warm, loving family. As far as older kids taking care of younger, that's how it always was in days gone by when big families were the norm, and the parents worked on the farm. I don't think they get any help from the state, Tonya. The Dad works in real estate and seems to do well enough. It certainly isn't the lifestyle for me, but it seems to work for them. I've seen lots of kids in smaller families who would jump at the chance to live where they were loved and supported.

By Sandysmom on Tuesday, March 14, 2006 - 09:51 am:

The oldest boy said that he will be glad when the building is over because he hadn't slept in on a Sat. since he was 14, which was 3 1/2 yrs ago. Also, if I remember right the children's bedrooms take up three huge rooms in the upstairs. Mom said that they didn't want separate rooms. I wonder..... They even had a professional decorator come in and help decorate. The bedroom that holds the group of youngest boys has a twisting slide that goes down to the first level. Mom homeschools and each child knows how to play an instrument. Most of them play the violin. In their previous show, I know mom said that her and dad start teaching self-control at a young age, but still, I wonder how she can get all those kids to cooperate!! My 12yo daughter doesn't even cooperate like those kids do. I wonder if they get to have any activity choice of their own. And everything is a lesson. When they were working on the house, they were talking about how the studs run perpendicular to each other and mom had all the kids say "perpendicular". LLLLLLLOOOOOOOOOOLLLLLLLLL!!! I could go on and on, but I won't. The kids seem like real grounded individuals though.

By Karen~moderator on Tuesday, March 14, 2006 - 09:57 am:

There have been a number of shows in the past 2-3 years on this family. I saw this one last night as well. They DO seem to be very well grounded, well behaved, intelligent kids.

These 2 parents are doing SOMEthing right. But in reality, just how many people can afford to raise that many kids? And stay sane!

I think it's a bit over the top, but hey, it's their life, not mine.

And it would be no surprise to me if they get donations/endorsements, whatever, simply because of the size of the family and the fact that it's made national news.

By Breann on Tuesday, March 14, 2006 - 10:06 am:

When I first flipped to that channel and saw the title of the show, I immediately thought that it was ridiculous. 16 kids???
After watching it, I think it's great. Not for me, but great for them. Every child seemed SO well rounded, smart, well-behaved, responsible and HAPPY. Those aren't the kids that you will find in jail in 5-10 years, kwim?
It seems like there is plenty of love in their home to go around. The mom was so soft spoken. And, she looked so young still. If I had that many kids, I'd look like a crazy woman, lol.
And that 7,000 square foot house was amazing. I'm sure my house would fit in their living room ;)

By Breann on Tuesday, March 14, 2006 - 10:13 am:

Here is a link, if you scroll down a bit it says "Handling Expenses". It tells how they afford it
http://www.dallasnews.com/s/dws/news/nation/stories/DN-bigfamily_18tex.ART.State.Edition3.3d32f57.html

By Sandysmom on Tuesday, March 14, 2006 - 10:20 am:

I was looking them up under Google as Tonya mentioned, and I also found on another website the newspaper article & it said mom was even thinking about doing it again. Well, I'm sure we haven't seen the last of the Duggar family! Literally!

By Tonya on Tuesday, March 14, 2006 - 10:35 am:

Was this show last night about the new house I would love to see the new house they have built. If anyone knows when that is airing let me know please.

By Sunny on Tuesday, March 14, 2006 - 10:37 am:

I watched this and have mixed feelings about this family.

From what I've read, I know they adhere to a debt-free life style and their faith is a central focus of their lives. They are very organized and each older child is buddied up with a younger child and each child has specific areas of the household that they are "in charge" of, though the point was made that they all help in each area. They certainly came across on this last show as a loving family, imo, and and were presented as happy and "functional".

I can't help, though, in thinking that they are too isolated, too restrictive, too conservative, too rigid and just, well, too orderly. Browsing their website only enforces my opinion. I'm not sure if the kids get the chance to ever just be kids! I've read some opinions elsewhere that this family's ideas borders on being cultish, and while I won't say that I necessarily agree with that , I can understand why some people may think that way. I don't know. This show was a small snippet in their lives and I know that we can't really know what goes on in their house, but there is so much more that we'll never know (unless one of them writes a "tell-all" book! LOL), so I'll just say that I disagree with a lot of their choices, but, to each his own.

By Sandysmom on Tuesday, March 14, 2006 - 11:35 am:

This show aired on our cable's TLC channel. In our area, it is channel 56 but I'm sure they must have a schedule on their website. I do hope they show it again. I also want to add on to what Sunny said. I agree with your viewpoint, and I also want to add that for the parents, it seems to be all about control, good & bad. I guess we will never really know, but I do wonder if like the girls get to spend the night at other friend's houses or are mom & dad afraid of others having an alternative impact on the kids that don't match exactly with theirs? Or, are the parent's the one's to even pick their kid's friends in an effort to have control even over that part of the child's life? I like to look on the bright side, but I do wonder.

By Sandysmom on Tuesday, March 14, 2006 - 11:59 am:

I looked up the TLC website on google and it shows that another episode will be airing on March 19 at 1:00 pm.

By Cybermommyx4 on Tuesday, March 14, 2006 - 12:59 pm:

I would say "God Bless Them"....but He already has!!! I don't think anyone has the right to say "that's too many children" any more than we have the right to call a couple selfish if they decide not to have ANY children at all - - to each their own. We have four children, and that is the PERFECT number FOR US. For some, it would be too many; for others, not enough. I have a great deal of respect for Mrs. Duggar. She seems to have endless patience and energy. *I* would not be able to live her life --not in a million years ;) I HAVE to have *me* time...time to read a book, talk with a friend, spend quality time with DH and the DKs...Mrs. Duggar seems to spend every waking moment tending to someone or something, and it seems as if every second is accounted for---not the lifestyle for me. I'd be cranky and irritable and have a meltdown, lol! But I don't feel I'm in any position to judge them. They seem very happy and well-adjusted. Our older children have always had to help with the younger ones in our house, partly due to a physical disability I have...has it hurt their ability to "be a child"? I don't think so. Furthermore, the sibling bond is just beautiful. I love the fact that my children are so close and love each other so much! In fact, my oldest DS just chose a college for next year that is close enough to drive home on the occasional weekend, because he can't bear the thought of not seeing us (especially his two little brothers, who idolize him) for months at a time. Oh well, I'm rambling I'll stop now

By Yjja123 on Tuesday, March 14, 2006 - 01:08 pm:

I find their family to be amazing. I do not have any problem with their schedules or areas of responsibilities. I believe their kids have play time--they even have a cool slide in their house! I only have 2 children but they have a schedule similar to the Duggers and yes--they do not always complete it but it is a goal.
As far as the question if they picked their friends....is that so bad? I have not *picked* my children's friends but I have encouraged them to hang out with ones we find more appropriate. If my kids started hanging out with kids who completely undermine our values, I would put a stop to the friendship. As a parent, I think that is our job.
Back to the Duggers---I would never have 16 children but I think they are doing a fabulous job. I would love to live completely debt free as they do. I think I could learn a thing or two from them.

By Crystal915 on Tuesday, March 14, 2006 - 04:26 pm:

My feelings on this really are better posted on the debate board, but I think these people are selfish and should try adopting some of the MANY children in need of a good family (which no doubt, they are) rather than just cranking out as many children as possible.

By Breann on Tuesday, March 14, 2006 - 07:20 pm:

Ohhhh, this could be a debate, Crystal, lol. Why would they be better off adopting? Are you planning to adopt your next child?


And, I am adopted, so I have nothing against it

By Sandysmom on Tuesday, March 14, 2006 - 08:09 pm:

In their old home, I think it was only a 4 bedroom rancher with only one bathroom. They had to make a schedule for even taking a shower. If I remember right, one of the kids said they could only take a shower every other day if that. They started building the huge house three years ago, thinking it would be done in a years time, and so they stayed in the little house until it was ready, with 18 people living under one small roof! I think the new house has 10 bathrooms. It is really nice, the living room is like 2000 square feet.

By Crystal915 on Tuesday, March 14, 2006 - 10:36 pm:

Breann... my DH doesn't have any biological children, and if we cannot concieve in the next couple years he never will. We're ok with that, but we'd LIKE to have 1 biological child together. He considers our children to be his, regardless, biology isn't the most important thing to us. We DO plan to adopt and foster when my own children are grown, I think that if you have the means and the room in your heart for that many children, you should give something back to the community and take in some who need a good home. Now, these people seem like good people... they seem like responsible adults, and their children seem like they are growing into responsible young adults/children. Why not do some good for the less fortunate, and give a child without a family the opportunity to be part of such a loving home?? I am certainly not saying there should be a limit on how many children a couple should have, but at what point do you say "Wow, we could do a lot of good by taking in some less fortunate kids?"!?

By Cybermommyx4 on Wednesday, March 15, 2006 - 12:16 am:

I see your point about taking in foster kids and/or adopting. But, in this case, they didn't "crank out as many children as possible"...they are a deeply religious family, and feel that GOD decides when/if/how many, etc. Many religions have this belief, and don't condone birth control, etc. They believe in letting God decide. I, personally, thank God for my 4 blessings while at the same time practicing birth control (just in case HE feels like I can handle more kids than *I* think I can, lol! ;) But this family has put all those decisions in God's hands. So, since He keeps blessing them, maybe they don't want to adopt in addition to that, or maybe they feel if God wanted them to adopt, they wouldn't conceive? None of us can know exactly why anyone else does what they do, but I don't feel we should condemn them for it or call them selfish. JMHO.

By Crystal915 on Wednesday, March 15, 2006 - 01:16 am:

While a valid point, since both of my husbands were raised Catholic and I know that the Catholic church in particular frowns upon any birth control besides natural planning, I can't imagine ANY religion would encourage you to just keep cranking out kids like that. I'm sorry, but I think that's what they are doing, she's almost constantly pregnant, and I'm sure they could use natural family planning methods to at least cut back on the frequency of her pregnancies. I do think they are selfish, just as I think women who crank out kids they cannot support or do not want are selfish. I didn't immediately feel this way about the Duggars, but after researching their website, and considering all of the attention they have received, I really think they could do "God's will" in better ways than having a football team of children. I know that most Christians believe in giving back to the community, and church, so how are these people doing so? What are they giving back to their community? *sigh* I'm going to leave this one alone, unless it ends up moved to debate, because while it is amazing that they have that many children, I'm sick of hearing about it every year, and seeing some new show about their latest additions and plans. I ***CANNOT*** stand Angelina Jolie, but at least she has the humanitarian heart to adopt children who need parents, and although she is pregnant now she seems more interested in doing good for OTHERS than popping out an endless stream of children of her own. I truely believe there is something seriously wrong with this family, and wish the media would just get over them.

By Sandysmom on Wednesday, March 15, 2006 - 12:08 pm:

I have to wonder how mom's health is after giving birth to all those children. Having gone through labor after labor I'm sure has had some kind of impact on her health/heart. I'd hate for those children to be devastated over losing their mother. I understand they are deeply religious, but doesn't the Bible say to use wisdom? JMHO, but I think she is being careless with her health. She is only 39, and has been pregnant for probably half her life. I really don't know anything about giving birth, our DD is adopted, so please don't think I'm stupid for asking this question, but after all those pregnancies, would it even hurt anymore to give birth? And what kind of impact would carrying all those babies have on her uterus? And her PC muscles????????

By Crystal915 on Wednesday, March 15, 2006 - 09:35 pm:

Good question, I had a c-section with mine, so I don't know, but I think all the kegals in the world can't repair that kind of trauma.

By Mrsheidi on Wednesday, March 15, 2006 - 09:47 pm:

Do they know that you have to SWALLOW the pill?
*EG*

By Crystal915 on Wednesday, March 15, 2006 - 10:36 pm:

LOL Heidi, my husband said "Get a TV or a hobby or something!!"

By Kiki on Thursday, March 16, 2006 - 12:08 am:

Point one- I watched this show as well and the thing that bugged me the most, as shallow as it will sound, is her HAIR! OMG, can they not afford a mirror? A bi-level was popular in the 80's and it's a woman's version of a mullet! It has never looked good. lol JMHO

Point two- what's up with the clothes? They look like the people that belong to polygamists groups. I wouldn't dress my children like that. It's too shabby looking.

Point three- Can’t they move onto another letter of the alphabet in deciding a child's name. It's getting old.

Point four- What about college? She can't home school them for that and how can they possibly pay to send 16 kids to college.

Point five- Their children don’t have a life. There is no individuality among them. Everything is chosen for them. What if a child doesn’t want to learn how to play the piano or the violin but would rather learn how to play the flute?

Point six- What does the mother do besides popping out a kid? Yes, she home schools her children but her kids do everything else!

I'm sorry to be ranting but it just bugs me!

By Sandysmom on Thursday, March 16, 2006 - 07:40 am:

You know, Kiki, I desperately wanted to say something about the hair but did'nt. OOOOMMMMGGGG During the show I noticed her hair looked a little unkempt & I thought either cut it all off & make life a little easier on yourself or if your church frowns upon short hair, at least grow it out & keep it back in a ponytail. As far as what mother does, I believe it is her responsibility to take care of the infants. (?) I know what you mean about the names. They should have started with the letter "A" because at the rate their going, they'll have the whole alphabet. Does she make their clothes & hers? I didn't really notice on the show, but on the website, the family pics. show similar outfits. As far as college goes, I have to wonder if they get a huge tax return check with all those deductions & they are using that. (?)

By Tonya on Thursday, March 16, 2006 - 08:14 am:

Yes she makes all of they cloths so they are all easier to hand down. She said fabric is cheaper when you buy it in bulk.

I figured for college as many kids as they have they will get lots of state help due to income versus family size.

To me it is way way too many kids for any family no child should have to help run a famly in the manner that they are made to do it.

By Jackie on Thursday, March 16, 2006 - 08:28 am:

I have seen this show as well. I have not made any comments as of yet. I think it is because I am not really sure how I feel about it.
First though, I think it would be wonderful to live debt free. It seems now a days, not many people I know can live debt free. I know the man is in real estate, but I often wonder that he must have made some good investments that have paid off to live that way.
I do not agree that each older child should have to be responsible for the younger ones. Yes, I agree in a family everybody should help out the family. With a one hour show, you dont really see everything and how much actual time they are with their buddies.I didnt like the ideas that the little ones sleep with the older kids in the same room. I am only guessing that its the older kids who take care of the younger ones during the night, again I dont think its fair.
So I think there is a lot of good points and things going on in that family, I also see a lot of negative stuff as well.

By Crystal915 on Thursday, March 16, 2006 - 10:26 am:

Well, yeah, it's nice to live debt free, and don't we all wish the state would pay for our kids to go to college??
LOL, Kiki, I was thinking the same thing abotu the hair... OMG!

By Yjja123 on Thursday, March 16, 2006 - 11:12 am:

I think it is an assumption that the state is paying for anything. They seem to be very resourceful and are paying their own way.

By Bobbie~moderatr on Friday, March 17, 2006 - 01:38 am:

One of the rooms on the main floor is a play room.. They walk through it while it is still under construction and the mom say something to the effect that this will be the play room... With all those children doing chores, I am sure their house is clean in no time and then some. So I am sure they have free time.. And during the show the kids are out side playing together.

They seem happy and I think it is because they are isolated from our norms.. My neighbor is one of 13 and her older sisters helped raise her and the younger children. Her parents owned cattle and they both had to work the cattle to survive.. And my grandma had a brother eleven years younger than her and she and her sister a year older than her helped raise him too. My great grandparents had a working farm and my grandpa broke horses so they both worked it with some hands while the kids were to young to work and when they got older the kids worked the farm too. My friends dad is one of 12 and they all attended school until 8th grade dropped out and got jobs and helped support their families until they got married. He group up in the city but it was what was expected back then. You helped your family, they weren't the bank of (add your last name here). Everyone had to pull their weight to make the family function.

And don't get it wrong, I think the woman is nuts and I know that that many births has to have played all kinds of trauma on her body..

Oh and Crystal was referring to the grants those kids will get for college not welfare aid.. They might have to pay for the last few but the first 13 will probably go for free on Government loans.. Because of the income table they have set up to qualify under. they might be making it debt free, but in our society that doesn't matter. It is how much you make to how many people in your home that matters.. And if they have more, more will get a free ride..

Oh and you realize TLC is cutting them a check to tell their story, right? And I agree Crys, they need to go away.. If it was about God then they wouldn't feel they needed to go on a TV they don't even watch for a profit.. That is just like all the multiple births that frequent our televisions... I will not go into my feelings on that, but trust me when I say they aren't good...

By Kiki on Friday, March 17, 2006 - 11:51 pm:

I am glad to see that I'm not the only one to notice the hair! OMG!

Sandy, you have a good point about the alphabet. At the rate they're going at they will have at least another 10 kids.

If she does make their clothes, couldn't she find nicer fabric or cuter patterns?

She takes care of the infants until a certain age and then passes it off to the next set of free hands. Once that happens, if she's not pregnant again, what does she do?

I believe in children having chores because it teaches them responsibility as well as enforcing the value of teamwork but these poor kids don't have any free time to themselves.

Well, I hope the kids can go to college and make a better life for themselves. It just seems unfair that their kids will most likely have a free ride when I have to scrimp and save for my kid’s education. Since the father is self employed, does he pay for health insurance or does the taxpayers pay for that?

By Colette on Saturday, March 18, 2006 - 08:38 am:

I basically agree with Karen. It's their life, it's not for me but if they can do it, afford it and they are all happy then so be it. It really doesn't matter what their hair or their clothing looks like as long as everyone is clean, healthy and happy. I did not see the show so I am just going by what's posted here.

A few people have made comments about them getting paid for the publicity - but how many of you watched it? If you don't like them getting paid by TLC for selling their story don't support it by viewing shows like this.

By Kaye on Saturday, March 18, 2006 - 09:00 am:

I can see both sides of this.

My hubby and I wanted a large family, it wasn't in the cards for us. (okay 6 or so large...lol). I would love to adopt, we looked into, we cannot afford it. It takes minimum 20k to adopt in the US. You can adopt through the foster system, for almost free, but it is a messy situation. I don't want to foster kids, I can't imagine having to give back a child, especially when you know it may not being going back to a place as nice as yours. So adopting is all grand and nice, but for most people it isn't a first option, cost is a huge factor.

As for the chores. I think there is some good stuff to this, many hands make light work, a lesson we should all get. Yes kids should be kids, but I can say my kids don't have chores at all (because I grew up doing it all) and I am starting to see now, what a BAD plan that was. Kids do need to be taught how to be a productive member of society and they learn that by being an active member of the family.

As far as sports, instruments etc. I think there should be a balance, but honestly I live in the burbs. Most kids are in SOOO many things, that really that isn't good either. We are the odd family in that my kids aren't in much. I feel like we say no a lot, but the reality is, we have 3 kids in different scout troops, I lead one, hubby leads one, 2 of them will play soccer, one is playing basketball, one is in the chess club, one has choir, one has band. ETC and we have a light load compared to their friends. Somewhere we need to reverse life, we all live in the fast lane.

PG being hard on the body...after three I can say that yes there are changes, but they all came after child one. I don't feel like number 3 did any more damage..LOL. Obviously she is pretty good at being pg.

Crazy woman and not for me. I haven't read the website. But honestly does this sound that different from Barbara that used to post here? Add a few more kids, but things i read were very similar to her posts.

By Pamt on Saturday, March 18, 2006 - 10:59 am:

I've been agreeing with Kaye a lot lately and am doing so again. I think it 2006 that we have such a warped view of what family is and what roles and expectations each family member has. SAHM meant that you were busting your buns all day---cooking from scratch (and kids typically came home from school for lunch in the 40s-60s), sewing clothes, cleaning the house, shopping at several different stores (no super Walmart), and taking care of several young children at home. Also more people lived in rural areas and had the additional responsibilities of caring care of animal and land. Now being a SAHM mom (and I'm not knocking it--I was one for about 6 years) generally means playing with your child and running them to Mommy and Me classes and playgroups.

Also, I read an article months ago in Time or Newsweek or something about how kids are growing up faster in terms of what they are being exposed to, but that they are so much more immature because they have no responsibilities and nothing is expected of them. My kids do have chores and they have to do them daily/weekly. My oldest DS was asking if he could mow the yard or do some chores to get paid and we told him no. We don't get paid for the chores we do. It's part of what family members have to do to keep the household running. I had to babysit my younger brother A LOT and I don't think it scarred me for life. I also had to be his taxi driver, as my sister had to do for me.

And really, do you think the mom is sitting around eating bon-bons? That's like asking what a CEO does all day. She's coordinating everything from homeschool, laundry, meal planning, childcare, sewing, gardening, etc., supervising it, teaching the children how to do X, and then I'm sure she's doing some too. I'll bet she falls into bed exhausted each night. I have also had a few friends who came from families with 8 or more kids and everyone, without fail, who came from a large family loved it. Yep, there were lots of responsibilities, you ate what was served whether you liked it or not, but there was always a lot of laughter, fun, and always someone to play with. From reading their website it sounds like the kids get plenty of free time and lots more time with their dad too than most kids get. And what a sense of accomplishment a 17 y/o boy must feel to build a house! That's awesome. I also agree with Kaye that kids today are waaaaaay overscheduled. I left Cub Scouts on Thursday just shaking my head. These parents were talking about how between their 2-3 kids they have 1-2 activities every afternoon and evening (ball practice, dance practice, lessons of some sort) and then the weekends are spent with mom going out of town with daughter for dance competitions and dad going with son to ball games. NO family time whatsoever, no family meals, and no rest on the weekend. I personally think that is way more crazy than having 16 responsible kids.

My only concerns are that these kids are awfully sheltered and that the "real" world of college and work will be quite a shock to them. I have no doubt they will get along with people and get the notion of teamwork, but relating to people who think and act differently will probably be tough for them. I think they will be in for some culture shock.

By Bea on Saturday, March 18, 2006 - 12:33 pm:

What I don’t understand is this notion that childhood is time in a person’s life that is free of responsibilities and obligations. This notion is perhaps only three generations old. Before that time, most children not only had chores, they worked at jobs that contributed to the families income. Families were usually large, and the children worked as hard as the parents. Do we really think that our modern ideas of a carefree, sheltered childhood are producing happier, more well adjusted individuals? I don’t know this family, and I have no idea of how adjusted these kids are, and will be, but I figure that these parents are trying a different plan, because they see that the common ways today aren’t working very well. I come from an extended family where large families are pretty common...one cousin has 13 kids. Most of their children are more caring of others....more goal oriented, ....more orderly, and I believe more mature than the kids in our smaller families. The psycho-babble folks preach raising self esteem and rescuing our children from failure, being pals and entertaining them. I think this family’s ideas are more on track, and I applaud them.

By Yjja123 on Saturday, March 18, 2006 - 01:39 pm:

WELL SAID Bea! I agree!

By Tripletmom on Saturday, March 18, 2006 - 02:09 pm:

Ditto

By Tink on Saturday, March 18, 2006 - 05:01 pm:

I really agree with Kaye, Pam and Bea on this thread. Personally, I'm quite surprised at the shallow and catty tone I noticed when this discussion began picking at the mother's hair and the clothes they choose to wear. I would be surprised if any of these children end up living off the system or thinking that they led a miserable childhood. Just because they aren't being immersed in our society's popular culture doesn't mean they'll grow up to be terrible people or that they are stifled or unhappy now. Obviously the father is doing quite well to be able to provide in any way for a family of 18 and if any of his children are able to provide in a comparable way for their family, it's something all of us could aspire to.

Personally, having 16 children isn't a choice I would be willing to make and I am not willing to live this type of lifestyle with the three children I have but I don't fault anyone else for having the strength to live outside of society's norms in an attempt to give their family a life better (in their opinion) than the typical American family. *If* they were living off welfare or *if* they were abusing their children, using them as slave labor and as a bid for attention and money, it would be a different story but, just a choice to live differently isn't a reason, IMO, to speak so poorly about a family.

By Yjja123 on Saturday, March 18, 2006 - 05:42 pm:

Well said Tink! I have avoided going into great detail how I feel. You pretty much summed it up. I think this family is doing well for itself. I think it is amazing how smoothly they run day to day. I think it is great how close they are. Like Bea mentioned, this isn't far fetched. Years ago families functioned as one unit. It doesn't hurt children to be raised as responsible beings. I *hope* I am doing that with my own. I do not care about their hair or their clothing. I understand the desire to dress the daughters modestly. I have an 11 year old daughter. It is so difficult to buy modest clothing for that age.
I am not going to into it anymore because it will be a debate.

By Ginny~moderator on Saturday, March 18, 2006 - 05:46 pm:

I'm agreeing with Bea and Kaye and Tink. It wouldn't be my choice, but these people seem to be managing their large family very well, and without any state aid. As for student grants/loans, that's a program everyone is eligible for based on grades+family income+family size, and I don't look at it as a handout. Especially when Pell Grants are down to something like $3,000 and dropping, and student loan interest rates going up.

Yes, children should do chores. Yes, in large families the older children are charged with watching the younger ones. One of my bosses is the youngest of 9, and I don't hear anything from him that would lead me to think that he and his sibs didn't have a lot of playtime and fun.

This family is self-supporting, no one is getting into trouble, everyone is well fed, clothed, and being educated - and from what I read, being taught values that I might not necessarily agree with in total, but which seem pretty sound to me.

It's not my piece of cake, but that's a matter of choice and it isn't my choice to make. As long as they keep on as they seem to be now, I would guess everyone is doing just fine.

I do share the concerns about the mother's health - that many pregnancies and obviously fairly close together can't be good. But in today's world, if she is eating well and everyone is helping with the chores, it's a lot different than 100 years ago and that may not be a major issue, and presumably she's under a doctor's care at least during the latter stages of her pregnancies.

By Breann on Saturday, March 18, 2006 - 05:50 pm:

Very well said, Bea. My grandpa only completed 6th grade before he had to quit school and go to work on the family farm.

These aren't the kids that we are going to see as runaways, drug addicts, menaces to society. These are the kids that are going to be future politicians, future lawyers (the one son is looking at going to law school already. He finished highschool requirements at age 16).

I personally think that the military families and welfare families, for example, get a lot of "breaks" that aren't necessary. Sometimes I wonder why I'm stuck paying for those breaks. So what does it matter if everyone else in America gets a few breaks along the way too?

This is a good strong family with strong moral values. I would send my child to their home to play in a heartbeat. There just seems to be so much love and so much focus on values that it's just an amazing place. And, I'd like to get a few tips from that mom too, lol ;)

By Mommyof5 on Saturday, March 18, 2006 - 06:16 pm:

I just want to address the Adoption comments that have been made in this post. I am probably just as, if not more selfish, than the Dugger parents because I adopted my children because I WANTED TO BE A MOM. I did not want to do a community service or do a good thing for a child less fortuante but I did not want to miss out on being a mother and adoption was how that was going to work for me. Any good adoption agency will tell you that the response that they want to hear when they ask you why you want to adopt is the purley selfish one...I want to be a parent etc. They certainly don't want to hear "beacause I want to help a poor little child who is less fortunate than I am"....

By Sandysmom on Saturday, March 18, 2006 - 07:54 pm:

When we adopted our DD, it was because I just wanted to be a mom. I didn't look at adoption as a second choice because I wasn't getting pregnant on my own. To me, the way she came to us was just as divine as the other but in a different way.

Sorry if I disappointed some of you ladies with with my agreement about mom's hair. I really don't care how she wears it, but the style she chose requires a lot of upkeep. I personally would want to make life easier on myself, but whatever.

I came from a semi-large family and I love my brothers & sisters very much & loved being in a big family. Our entertainment was our big back yard. I thought I was in heaven when my parent's sprung for a VCR and then a few years later, a Nintendo.

I wouldn't trade my big family for the world, but I was attention-starved. Any adult that showed me individual attention was my friend for life. I hope mom & dad do make time for each individual child. It's not hard to be amongst a crowd and still feel invisible. JMHO

By Tripletmom on Saturday, March 18, 2006 - 08:31 pm:

Ditto Tink

By Amecmom on Saturday, March 18, 2006 - 08:48 pm:

I swore I would not post ...but I just can't help it. What good is this woman doing? She is bringing 16 humans into the world who will help others. They are 16 good, decent people. They will help the community, no matter where they are. Increase the quality of one person and you increase the whole.

She is helping in the most fundamental way. I had a friend who wanted children and who felt it was her obligation to marry and have children so she could give something back to society - something wholesome and decent.

One of those children may cure cancer. One of those chidren may be an advocate for the poor, or a missionary. They are learning selflessness, love, charity etc.

BTW - about the hair and the clothes - I have only two children and I rarely have time to primp. I can only imagine how little "me" time this woman has. It is refreshing that she did not feel that she had to fix herself up for the camera.

As to the publicity - I have no problem with it. Perhaps they feel they can be an example to others by doing these shows. And of course, whatever money they get I don't begrudge them.

We all make our choices. I am awed that this family can do waht they are doing.

Growing up, I knew a family with 14 kids. Most of the kids were not bright, but they were good hearted and there was always someone to talk to and to play with.

Ame

By Reds9298 on Sunday, March 19, 2006 - 09:25 pm:

It has been interesting reading the different viewpoints on this family. I did not see the show but checked out the website.

For me, I think it's irresponsible to have 16 children. Regardless of your financial situation, education, whatever, it's irresponsible IMO. If for no other reason, the state of the world population! In addition to that, there's no way parents can give 16 kids the attention they need IMO.

I agree with others who have said that older children should not be responsible for taking care of the younger ones. It's not fair to me. You can raise responsible, productive citizens without having 16 kids.

Having said that, this family does seem like they have children who *are* responsible and learning life lessons daily. To their credit, their children are getting more from them than people I know who have 1 child they rarely see or spend time with.
I would just personally never choose to have this many children, and the way I think a child should be raised would never fit into a schedule that includes 16 children. BUT...to each his own.

By Kiki on Monday, March 20, 2006 - 08:47 am:

well said Deanna.

By Emily7 on Monday, March 20, 2006 - 10:45 am:

deleted

By Vicki on Monday, March 20, 2006 - 11:57 am:

Well, Emily7, most of the topics discussed on the boards don't affect anyone other than the poster. However, that doesn't mean we ALL don't weigh in with our opinions and feelings. I do believe everyone is entitled to those.

By Sunny on Monday, March 20, 2006 - 12:33 pm:

We all have an idea of what we consider the "ideal" number of kids and we all have our own philosophies on parenting. Isn't that what this is all about? Whether we agree with their choices or not, we still form opinions on it and have shared them in this forum. The family chose to go on television and share their story. I consider that an invitation to question their way of life.

I would encourage anyone who hasn't seen the show or who knows little about this family to check out their websites (They have two - an older site and a newer one) before basing an opinion on them from just the show or what was written here.

On a side note, it has prompted me to borrow the book, Who Gets the Drumstick? from the library. It's the story of the Beardsley family, a blended family of 20(?). They made a movie called, "Yours, Mine and Ours" in the 1960s with Lucille Ball and Henry Fonda, and just did a remake of the movie last year.

By Reds9298 on Monday, March 20, 2006 - 02:07 pm:

Emily -Just as I have the opinion that having 16 children is irresponsible, you also have the opinion that *I* am judgemental and close-minded. That's your business, but the point of this board (and a million others like it) is to express one's viewpoint and that's mine.

A friend of mine blows cigarette smoke in her dd's face all day. That doesn't affect me or mine in any way, shape, or form but you can bet I've got an opinion on it.

A closed mind is one that does not allow room for the opinions and viewpoints of others.

By Emily7 on Monday, March 20, 2006 - 02:24 pm:

deleted

By Ginny~moderator on Monday, March 20, 2006 - 02:28 pm:

I would hate to have to remove this post to the Kitchen Table (debate board).

By the way, though I haven't seen the current version of Cheaper By The Dozen, I remember the original film, with, I think, Clifton Webb, which was funny and sweet, and gave another view of a household with a whole lot of kids.

By Vicki on Monday, March 20, 2006 - 03:42 pm:

I don't think that anyone has a problem with others voicing an opinion, but calling people "judgmental & closed minded" starts to cross the line, IMHO. I also don't think that anyone said that her clothes or hair made her a bad parent.

By Crystal915 on Monday, March 20, 2006 - 04:05 pm:

Ok, first, I still agree with Deanna that it's irresponsible. As for Ame's opinion that she is bringing up 16 good people who will help their community, she could do that with adopted children or foster children. Our world is in DESPERATE need of good parents for so many kids, why not do that instead of just creating your own football team's worth? As for those of us who were catty about the hair, hey, we're all grown ups here, it was a casual observance, and some of us admitted to making the same. Who cares? No one said it made her a bad person, just made the observation that it was an interesting choice in style. Vicki, well said about calling someone judgemental. We're ALL entitled to our own opinions here.

By Reds9298 on Monday, March 20, 2006 - 04:38 pm:

Vicki, that's exactly how I feel. Well said.

Ditto on the hair and clothes. No one said that made her a bad parent. We all have a tendency at times to make judgements about the way people look because how one looks does make an impression, regardless of whether or not that's fair.

By Ginny~moderator on Monday, March 20, 2006 - 05:48 pm:

Now that I'm home for the day, I've re-read the posts above.

"Catty", "close-minded", "shallow", "judgmental" ... I don't like to see members use these and similar words about each other. Basically, if you can't express your opinion without using negative adjectives about another poster, you should probably - no, definitely - rethink your post and find another way to say what you want to say.

Honestly, ladies - we all know better, so let's try better, please.

By Kaye on Monday, March 20, 2006 - 06:16 pm:

I really like how sunny said "We all have an idea of what we consider the "ideal" number of kids and we all have our own philosophies on parenting. "

That just couldn't be truer. There will always be those who think too many kids is crazy and selfish, but there will also be those who think having only one to be selfish. The reality is, no matter how many kids the duggans have, they wouldn't change their lifestyle. We all parent how we see fit and tend to have kids to fill that desire.