Marriage problems!
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Marriage problems!
My DH and I keep getting into the same fights when we argue. The arguments will be about one thing but all of the same issues & put downs follow. I have tried to fix all of the things he complains about ie: Having a cleaner house, laundry done, more physical contact, not giving him enough credit for being a WOHD etc. But when the arguments come on he puts me down for my efforts. I am usually the one to apologize because I hate the tension in my home. He brings up the fact that he always used to apologize, and that he has always been the aggressor in terms of wanting sex so it is my turn. So, I figured I would put fourth alot more effort and he has commented on my efforts when we have had pillow talk etc. But all that goes out the window when these reocurrances happen. The argument we had last night was so intense my stomach is still in knots this morning all I could think about was a way out. He layed everything on the line, basically all the name calling and hatred that he has for me. It really hurts my heart and I'm at the point where I can't seperate how he truly feels and what he is saying out of anger, because the angry insults always come out again and again. I realize that I'm not perfect, and I have insulted him out of anger also, but this vicious cycle has to stop. I feel like he is driving me to leave,he has lost all respect and forgiveness for me. I told him I felt verbally abused and I may go to a womens shelter with my children. He said the women would laugh at me and that is when he really lost his temper. I don't want this for my children, or myself or him for this matter. I'm embarassed to talk to my friends about it because it always seems to smooth over for a few days, everything seems good and then the arguing occurs. There are alot of things that really bother me but the main one is getting no credit for being my childrens mom or staying home to raise them. I told him last night that I regreted staying with them. He laughs when I say women on momsview or in my community say it is easier to go to work at times. I'm rambling because I am at a loss. I told him me and the children would be gone before he got home. We have no where to go, he knows this so he just makes nasty comments. I guess I am asking when to call it quits? How much can one individual take? It is starting to really affect my children and I am emotional drained. 
First of all....{{{{{{{{{{{{{BIG HUGS}}}}}}}}}}}}}} for you.
Now - no one can tell you when to call it quits. That is something YOU have to decide for yourself, in your heart, and in your mind.
I don't know the entire background of your marriage, but you've said several things that raise huge red flags, IMO:
"But when the arguments come on he puts me down for my efforts"
"He layed everything on the line, basically all the name calling and hatred that he has for me. It really hurts my heart and I'm at the point where I can't seperate how he truly feels and what he is saying out of anger, because the angry insults always come out again and again."
"I told him I felt verbally abused and I may go to a womens shelter with my children. He said the women would laugh at me and that is when he really lost his temper."
"We have no where to go, he knows this so he just makes nasty comments."
I don't know what started what appears to be an angry and resentment-filled cycle in your relationship, or how long it's been going on. But it appears he has no respect for you as a woman or a wife/mother. What is going on IS verbal and emotional abuse. From your post, it appears his main complaints are that he wants a spotless house with everything in order and everything in it's place, but apparently he doesn't see that when you're a SAHM, the time spent on the kids is THE most important thing, not the house being clean.
Sex is a problem in many, many marriages. And for many men, sex *cures* the marital problems, as they see it. My X was that way - he thought if we had all the sex HE wanted, then the other *real* issues in our marriage would be *fixed*. Problem is, most women are not inclined to feel loving and sexual when they are hurt/angry/upset or feeling put down and humiliated by their DH. That's a big difference between men and women, while sex is more a physical thing for men, it's truly more of an emotional thing for a woman.
I have to ask why there is so much name-calling going on too. And why would he tell you women would laugh at you if you went to a shelter?
I don't know you or your DH, but it sounds to me like he wants to control what you do and when you do it on the one hand, and wants you to be a *Stepford* wife on the other hand.
I do understand how you feel. When I was in that situation, I, and the kids, all felt like we were walking on eggshells all the time. The tension in our home was palpable. But no one can tell you to leave or not to leave.
As someone who has walked in those shoes, I can tell you, you need to have a plan if this is something you are seriously considering. You need to be able to support yourself and you need a safe place for you and your kids to live.
There's a fine line between emotional and physical abuse - and I have no way of knowing if he is capable of the physical abuse part. However, NO one should have to be emotionally/verbally abused, period. If this is something you've tried to work on and it's continuing (and it sounds like it has), you need to make some changes.
*My* first inclination would be to say start planning to get out. But as I said before, that's a decision you need to make on your own, not because others tell you to. However, it's a good idea to start getting a backup plan together, and I think you should call some shelters in your area and talk to someone about this.
Emotional abuse beats you down, it takes away your self confidence and self esteem, you feel hopeless, you are less able to cope on a day to day basis. You have kids to care for, and this affects them too, if not directly, then indirectly.
I think you will know when you've had enough. You have to protect yourself and your kids, both physically and emotionally, and at that point, you will do whatever you need to do for that to happen.
So sorry that this is happening anon. You dh is being abusive. There is a line that is drawn between arguing and something more, I think he has crossed it imho. I get really darn mad sometimes, and I have said some really rotten things, but I dont say them everytime that I get angry and I certainly dont belittle or put other people down.
You said that he puts down your efforts at being a mom, your housecleaning, how much sex he gets, and that you have tried to improve all of those things. What does he fail you at? He isnt caring for you besides providing a check. So he gets to make you feel cruddy about yourself and all the heat is off him.
I am going to get out the old record, you need to get councilling, with or without him. Nobody should feel like this if they are supposed to be in a loving and caring marrage. Usually I dont think people should split, and I dont know if you will have to here, but the benefit and loss to the kids seems to weigh more as a benefit. Kids absolutely do not need to see their dad putting down their mom, it just starts a nasty cycle where the daughters dont know any better and set themselves up for heartbreak and the sons end up being just like good old dad.
First of all, I will probably be ridiculed for what I am about to say, but here goes... ;) I think I may have some insight as to what you are going thru as I have been there...
I did go to counseling and I would suggest you do the same. If you choose to stay with someone like this, you will need the tools to deal with it.
Your dh sounds like he has issues. Sounds like he is angry- but probably not just with you. Sounds insecure, immature and self centered AND he sounds controlling. (IE: tells you to work on XY and Z and then when you do that, he says thats not good enough, now you need to work on L M and N...) Thats called making you jump through hoops. He is controlling you. You need to stop taking the bait and stop letting him control you and your emotions... *If* you want to stay you will have to learn this.
If you both agreed that you would be a sahm and he is happy with this when the 2 of you arent biccering, then you need to very confidently remind him of this decision that *he* was in on. DONT ARGUE with him anymore. Let him rant and rave and sit there and stare at him and listen. When he is finished say something like 'I'm sorry to hear that, that hurts' and walk away. DO NOT agree with him that YOU need to do alot of changing. I doubt you do. I mean, we can all make improvements and no one is perfect- but I dont think his grouchiness is all your fault and thats what he wants you to think. Does that make sense?
You dont need credit from him for being your children's Mom or for staying home to raise them?! Who cares what he thinks at this point. You know in your heart that being a sahm is a very special thing and you do a great job at it. You need to tell yourself this and pat yourself on the back. You have to believe it yourself or he never will. Do not listen to his nasty comments and do not take them personally. Do not respond to him when he is pulling this. I promise you, he will be surprised to find that he isnt getting to you... It wont be as fun for him to act this way if you stop giving him the reaction. kwim?
As for leaving... Dont threaten it if you arent going to do it, imo... My dh has on occassion and the last few times he did say it - I very calmy told him that I thought that was probably a good idea. He was surprised to hear me respond this way...I mean, why say it if you arent going to really do it? He stopped saying it when he figured out I didnt care if he went or stayed. IMO, if I have children, I am not packing them up and moving them anywhere. My dh can pack his things alot easier and go find somewhere else to live - but I am not about to make these kids move out of their home. (well, unless we were getting beaten or something!) Do you see what I am saying? Dont threaten to leave and move your kids around. Take control of your life, let him know that you KNOW you deserve better. You need to tell your dh to pack his crap and get packing if thats what you *really* want. AND if he wont do it- pack it up for him, have the sheriff or a male friend there when he gets home and have them talk to him and explain to him that he will be moving out. Then change the locks and I'd suggest having a friend or family member stay with you for awhile... I better add- if you think there is a chance your dh would become violent then- you might consider taking the kids and going to stay with a relative or friend... And NO the women at a womens shelter would not laugh at you. Thats just another stupid comment. Surely you dont believe these things he says to you? Because if you do then you really might need to go stay somewhere like that and get some serious counseling.
Well I came from an abusive family so I can really only speak about what your children probably feel. I have some advice although it may seem harsh. First of all, on your part you need to think about your kids. You decided to be a parent, you decided who to marry, and as a parent it is YOUR job to protect your kids. If you end up staying with your husband and your kids see how he treats you and them I can assure you that when your kids get old enough to realize that you were not just a victim, you were their Mother and the person who was supposed to protect them, they are going to blame you somewhat. I've gone to a counselor before to discuss my growing up and she told me that a large percent of kids who grew up in abusive homes end up blaming the non-abuser. Because they feel they are the ones that could have changed things but chose not to. Another thing is that you should never threaten your husband that you are going to leave unless you have a plan and are going to follow through. In your case he goes to work after you have threatened to leave and just laughs to himself saying she has nowhere to go, and he believes that, and it makes him more in control. The saddest part is that YOU believe that. I've been through the system, I've been in shelters and let me tell you those people can HELP! My family situation was so bad that they sent my whole family to another state. And I'm not talking just my immediate family. It was extended relatives too.
It's just an excuse on your part to say you have no where to go. I'm guessing since you posted as anonymous that you don't feel comfortable telling the people around you about your situation. There are people who are willing to help, you just have to decide what you want.
I've heard everything that is coming out of your husbands mouth and more and I assure you he is abusive. If you go to a shelter they will give you this pie chart of abuse and your husband will fill up most of the spaces.
This is tragic for your children and they will take parts of it with them their whole lives if you don't get them into some counseling. Look at your children and look up some coping mechanisms children use. Then you will see the pain they share. A good book to start with is Toxic Parents by Susan Forward PhD. If you are honest with yourself you will be able to identify your husband, yourself and probably other adults in your life in this book. It is a long and sometimes scary road you have to travel when you leave an abuser but you can do it if you choose to.
I agree with the others who say this is abusive. And I will add - maybe he hasn't hit you yet, but that's next. I think your husband is a very controlling man, and I also think that if you did everything right that he complains about, he'd find something else to complain about because it is only by putting you down that he can feel he is "in charge".
I also agree - don't say you are going to leave unless and until you are leaving. Do check with any programs in your area for abused women - when I get home I will check my bookmarks and post some links. Do start collecting some information - bank names and account numbers, his social security number, his employer, his pay rate, any retirement program he contributes to, titles for the car and house, insurance companies and numbers for all insurance policies, credit cards, etc. Make a list of all of this information and, if you don't have a really, really safe place to put it, do you have a friend or family member who will keep a sealed envelope for you and not ask questions?
I think counseling may be a good idea for you, so that you can sort out for yourself what is going on and what you want to do about it.
I understand that you are embarassed to talk to your friends about it. But, can you pick one friend who will listen and NOT tell anyone else, but just listen and maybe give you feedback. It has to be someone who won't talk to anyone else, because sooner or later, if she does, it will get back to your husband.
And I understand that you are chalking this up to a difference between what your husband feels and says when he is angry and who he is and how he behaves otherwise. I'm sorry to be so blunt, but that's bunk. He is choosing to allow himself to be angry and to say hateful and hurtful things "in anger" and later blaming it on "you made me angry and I didn't know what I was saying" sort of thing. There are women on this board who can tell you that what they heard was "I didn't want to hit you but you made me do it when you ......". Same thing, in essence.
Yes, it is hard to think of leaving. Yes, the idea of maybe being a single parent is scary - been there done that, and I can tell you that you can survive. It isn't fun, but neither is what you are living with and, as someone said, you are creating a really terrible model for your children of how husbands and wives interact and what a marriage should be.
Please know that you are supported here, and cared about.
Ditto anonymous...and, I might add, that if it's the same argument than it seems like he's looking for something wrong with you. And, maybe predict what he's going to say and have combacks that allow yourself to stick up for yourself. And, ditto, it's HIS decision too for you being a SAHM. What a dilusional jerknose. You can tell him I said that too. 
My guess is that he doesn't have a lot of control at work so therefore tries to control you. JMHO
{{Anonymous}}
I would get a job and see if that doesn't take some of the pressure off. If it doesn't cool some of the arguments, you will still be able to put some money aside for yourself should you decide to leave down the road.
I know you planned on being a SAHM, but if you leave him you'll have to get a job anyway. Might as well go ahead and do it.
I think it's great when moms can be SAHMs if they want to be - but not at any cost.
Narcissist...do me a favor and look it up on the internet. I am heading out the door and dont have time to find a website for you. Read about them and see if it sounds like your dh. They prey on women with low self esteem basically. Once you stand up for yourself- they make you feel as if everything was your fault and you are crazy. YOU are not crazy. ;) (just thought i'd let you know, in case you've felt like maybe you were lately. lol )
I obviously dont know all the details about you and your dh and your relationship. But thought I'd mention narcissist and then you can decide if it fits what you are living with.
This sounds parallel to what I grew up with. My stepdad and mom used to argue constantly. There were put downs, stepdad would laugh at her when she threatened to leave, the whole bit. Then they would act like nothing happened, until the arguments broke out again. This was all done in front of five kids. I hated it. I felt so helpless. When my mom threatened to leave, I would think, good, we're getting away from all this. And then she stayed. I would get mad. Why did she get our hopes up and then dash them? This mess eventually escalated into him beating my mom, and then he went after us kids. Nothing was ever done. Just the same old threats-I'm taking the kids and leaving you! HaHa you have nowhere to go, etc.
Well, 20+ years later (I was about 6 at the time) my mom is still with him. I don't know how things are now, because I hightailed it out of there and rarely go back. I have to agree with Groovepickle about the kid aspect. When I think about my childhood and all the junk I saw, I hate my mother for not protecting her kids. She could have done so much to keep us from all the mess, and she didn't.
So I guess what I'm trying to say is that you have a responsibility to your kids. Like someone else said, it's your job to keep them safe. I don't know how many children you have or how old they are, but kids pick up on a lot. I'm not telling you what you should do. Maybe your marriage can get back on track, maybe not. I don't know. I will just pray that you make the decision that is right for you and your family, and that you have the strength to work through what you need to work through.
Conni is exactly right with her Narcissist Personality Disorder comment. Look it up.
Here are sites that help you figure out if you are a victim of abuse. I particularly recommend to you the last site - Not to people like us. It gives an escalating list of behavior that can lead to domestic violence, and provides descriptions and definitions that most of us don't think of as "real" domestic abuse or violence.
howcanyoutell
loveshouldn'thurt
nottopeoplelikeus
Here's a site which gives you a state by state list of domestic violence groups:
domesticviolencegroups
You, of course, have to decide what you are going to do. Counseling can help you decide what you want to do. The list of domestic violence groups can probably point you to some counseling opportunities.
You are faced with one of the most difficult of situations - you are in an abusive relationship but it is (at least not yet) physical, you have young children and are not a wage-earner so you worry about how your children would be supported (even the basics of food and shelter) if you did something, and you probably don't trust your judgment at this point. You wonder how you could have been so blind or foolish to not see "what he was like" before you married him, and you wonder if things will improve if you can do the things he wants you to do and find ways to stop making him angry. Every woman in your shoes has had the same fears and doubts, but that doesn't make it easier because these are your fears and doubts. You don't know if your family will support you (or maybe you don't have family that could support you, or maybe you already know they won't support you). You are embarassed and ashamed to discuss this with anyone you know - although I would bet serious money that some of your friends already know and feel sorry for you but don't want to say anything because they don't want to embarrass or hurt you.
And now we've raised new issues - like what kind of example is this setting for your children, and whether his behavior could actually escalate to physical abuse.
I have never been in your shoes, but I have friends who have been, and I do know that it just isn't easy to make life-changing decisions just "like that". If I could hug you, I would. I will say that if you want to email me and discuss this privately, I would keep anything you said to me in complete confidence, and would never say "I told you so" in any form. I have some friends who have set up hotmail accounts so that they don't have to worry about a family member reading their email. My personal email address is klipvm at rcn.com.
I am by no means trained in any kind of counselling, and would not even try to counsel you. What I can do is listen, be a friend with whom you can be honest without risk, and sometimes do a bit of research to find helpful information for you. If you decide not to, my feelings won't be hurt.
I can so relate and agree with what everyone has posted here.
I went through ALL the things you are saying your dh is doing anon with my ex husband and eventually it lead to physical abuse.
I would definitely look at the links Ginny has provided and start collecting the information too in case you do decide to leave. I had file folders in the midst of our filing cabinet that I put that kind of information in so I could just pull it out when I was ready to leave.
I would also contact shelters in your area and talk to someone there and do the counselling thing.
The counselling thing I did was my first step and the first appointment I knew that I was going to leave my husband. I told the woman what was going on and she said what do you want to do and I said "I'm leaving him" and she helped me. I only actually went to her office once the rest of the time I spoke to her was over the phone. You may not feel like that and you may not want to leave you may be able to fix this but it doesn't hurt to have your options open and known to you.
You are not alone, there are places to go. I know I've been there.
The last bit of advice I have is this, IF you are doing this research on a computer he has access to please make sure to erase the history and the cookies and the like on your computer. What I used to do is erase it after I'd visited those "sites" and then visit the ones that I would normally visit....like here and other parenting sites. Do not use a phone for calls your making to shelters etc (if you chose to do that) that will record numbers you've been calling (a cell phone) and don't leave the last number you called out as a number for one of those places (redial) just call a friend or someone after you've placed the last call.
I'm so sorry you're going through this anon.
{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{ anon }}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}
Very good advice on the self-protection details, Catherin. It is so hard to think of details like that when you are the middle of a situation, yet they are so important.
Oh, and if you don't want cookies on your computer - particularly cookies that show what sites you've visted, in my version of Internet Explorer you go to Tools/Internet Options/ hit the privacy tab, hit Advanced, and click Prompt for both kinds of cookies. You can allow session cookies as they disappear after you finish the session. To delete your history, just go to the general tab and hit Clear History. For your email, just don't keep email addresses on your computer email program. If you are asked if you want so-and-so to be an allowed contact, say no, and don't save sent emails in the Sent folder. In my version of Outlook Express, that's in Tools/Options, and hit the Send tab. There is a box where you choose whether to save sent emails in the Sent folder. (Which, by golly, I had been doing, and don't want to.)
If you are using different versions of your internet program and email program, just check around under Tools until you find what you need. This is where a hotmail account comes in real handy.
"Sounds insecure, immature and self centered AND he sounds controlling." Agreed.. Question, How are his parents? Do you know any childhood history on him?
Big hugs, anon...
You just described perfectly the relationship my neighbor had with her dh. Unfortunatley, hers lead to physical abuse also. She finally reached her breaking point and divorced him after putting up with years of verbal and finally physical abuse. Her divorce was final last year. She also was a SAHM with 3 boys. I won't say it was easier on her because it wasn't. It has been a year since she left, and she is doing much better now. She had to get a job after 14 years of being at home, and her dh isn't too involved with thier dks, so she is basically raising them by herself. But, she will tell you it is the best thing she ever did. Her turning point in the marriage came when her oldest teen son started treating her just like her dh was. Also, her dh crossed the line into physical abuse. Her 3 boys are all in couseling and have major issues. They were very effected by their negative relationship.
I have no personal experience, so I can't offer you any. I just want to give you {{{hugs}}}. You have gotten some wonderful advice above.
I so agree with everyone else. I grew up in an abusive home. My stepfather took his anger out on me and my mother sat by helpless to defend me. I even went so far as to try and get myself placed in foster care, my mother would not back me up. As soon as I graduated I was gone as far away as I could get.
When I left, my stepfather needed someone else to pick on, my mom was the only one left. When she could no longer take it and left herself, he chased her down one night with a gun and luckily for her she was not killed. He was charged and advised to turn over all of his firearms, he did not. He pled guilty at the trial and two days later as my mother was sitting in her van he pulled up behind her, got out of his car, took a shot gun out of his trunk and killed himself in front of her. Lucky lady she got out alive, not everyone does. Verbal/emotional abuse can lead to other more violent forms of abuse.
I told this story for a reason, my mother never in a million years would have thought that after 27 years of marriage he would attempt to take her life and end his own.
I told it for another reason, I hated my mother for years and years for not protecting me, for choosing him over her own flesh and blood. She made me sick and I would reciol in disgust when she tried to touch me. She wasn't the abuser but she let it happen, she stood by and watched, she didn't protect me. I have dealt with my feelings towards my mother, however we will never have a true bond. That love and trust that I had for her as a small child is gone forever.
Take care of yourself and take care of your children. If not for your own sake then at least for theirs.
Anon just above. You are a strong lady, and I applaud you for being able to come out of such tragedy with a whole mind. I wish I could say a story such as yours is extremely rare, but it isn't. I hope the first anonymous poster listens to you and the others who have posted from their own experience or experiences they have closely observed. God bless you, my dear.
I would have to agree with the last anon. My mom also chose her boyfirends and ex-husband who also committed suuicide this year over the children. I have no respect for her nor do I really like her. We are nice to eachother but no bond whatsoever. If he is not willing to get help or seek some couples counseling then I would not put up with it. You have to think of the kids. I am not one to tell people to leave in a hurry, but if there is not a chance of reconciliation together then maybe seperating will help. Most physical abuse starts and sometimes ends tragically when the controlling partner feels as though he is losing control (you leaving).
Anon the first - please let us know you are OK.
Bumping again - Anon, please let us know you are OK.
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